Author Topic: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm  (Read 33447 times)

Offline newterp

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #120 on: December 12, 2017, 08:46:11 pm »
First step is try not to lose. Anything else is a bonus.

If we play like we did at the weekend then it's going to be a struggle. If they have been doing their homework and play the same way then it might be a difficult game.

Hopefully it was just 'one of those days' and we can crack on. Not expecting that much though.

If we play like we did this past weekend it will be an easy win. If we get completely unlucky and/or screwed like we did last weekend - it will be a struggle sure.

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #121 on: December 12, 2017, 08:47:15 pm »
Yes but you don't set out against the baggies at home trying not to lose. That's a strange one, even for you  :)

Imagine if we go a goal down early on. Fucking hell the atmosphere will be toxic. If we can keep it tight at the back and maybe get a goal or two early on then we might do well.

Don't forget they've drawn against Spurs at home and drawn against Palace and Newcastle recently.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #122 on: December 12, 2017, 08:52:09 pm »
Imagine if we go a goal down early on.

Imagine we go in 3-0 up at half time and batter them like Spartak.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #123 on: December 12, 2017, 08:55:02 pm »
Imagine we go in 3-0 up at half time and batter them like Spartak.

Why on Earth would you want to do that?

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #124 on: December 12, 2017, 08:56:44 pm »
Imagine if we go a goal down early on. Fucking hell the atmosphere will be toxic. If we can keep it tight at the back and maybe get a goal or two early on then we might do well.

Don't forget they've drawn against Spurs at home and drawn against Palace and Newcastle recently.

Shit, I didn't realise they had drawn against Palace and Newcastle. That puts a different perspective on it. I'm actually shitting meself now. Hopefully we can keep the score down and save ourselves some dignity.

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #125 on: December 12, 2017, 08:58:04 pm »
Imagine we go in 3-0 up at half time and batter them like Spartak.

Hope we do.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #126 on: December 12, 2017, 09:10:41 pm »
Got to be patient and clinical. They will employ similar tactics ala Everton, which we are used to by now. Play with some intensity, and score in the 1st half and things will be easie for us.

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #127 on: December 12, 2017, 09:14:48 pm »
Take the same approach we have been with sides that sit deeper recently. Its been working well and with threats from all over the pitch we seem not to panic like we used to when times ticking and we haven't got the breakthrough yet


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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #128 on: December 12, 2017, 10:40:10 pm »
Salah was taken off early against Everton due to a slight hamstring.  Must rule him out for tomorrow’s match. 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jurgen-klopp-reveals-mohamed-salahs-14029428

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #129 on: December 12, 2017, 10:41:54 pm »
 ;)
Shit, I didn't realise they had drawn against Palace and Newcastle. That puts a different perspective on it. I'm actually shitting meself now. Hopefully we can keep the score down and save ourselves some dignity.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #130 on: December 12, 2017, 10:45:45 pm »
Salah was taken off early against Everton due to a slight hamstring.  Must rule him out for tomorrow’s match. 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jurgen-klopp-reveals-mohamed-salahs-14029428
Klopp should have kept him on and let him get injured imo. That derby game was the most important thing to ever happen.  :no

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #131 on: December 12, 2017, 11:19:32 pm »
Klopp should have kept him on and let him get injured imo. That derby game was the most important thing to ever happen.  :no

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #132 on: December 12, 2017, 11:23:07 pm »
In order to maintain freshness I think Klopp's team will be something like this

                      Mignolet
      AA Lovren    Klavan    Robertson

                     Can
         Gini                    Coutinho   

         Ox                      Mane
                Firmino

This would be Mane's third game in a row so I'd say he's most out of the above at risk of being rotated (with Hendo playing instead and coutinho on the wing) along with Milner for Robertson.

Offline E2K

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #133 on: December 12, 2017, 11:25:46 pm »
Good to see you back POP :thumbup

I'm sure the usual Christmas/New Year madness (which ultimately caught up to Klopp's team in the form of 2 games in less than 48 hours last season, culminating in a 2-2 draw with Sunderland at the beginning of a wretched January that knocked Liverpool out of the title race) figured into the manager's thoughts on Sunday. By the time they've battled Everton again in the 3rd round of the FA Cup, Liverpool will have played 7 games in 24 days. If they are to have any chance of negotiating that run of fixtures successfully, the club's resident Brazilian magicians will need to be fully fit and firing on all cylinders, hence the manager choosing not to start them at the weekend.

Which is not to say Klopp was "right" with his team selection on Sunday necessarily, or his decision to take Salah off early. As he said himself to the bastard offspring of Geoff Shreeves after the game, his job is to make decisions before he knows whether they're correct. Having said that, it certainly isn't hindsight to say he took a risk which obviously didn't pay off with a win. Solanke did ok but the team missed Firmino's presence for reasons that went far beyond a goal threat, while the midfield sorely lacked the influence of a Coutinho or Lallana. Creativity was at slightly more of a premium than usual, although Everton certainly played their part in that, and given that the game against Spartak was effectively over after 20 minutes it's probably reasonable to wonder why key players weren't withdrawn early last Wednesday night if fitness was likely to be an issue for Sunday.

Having said that, a black-and-white narrative that Klopp's team selection was responsible for Liverpool dropping 2 points against Everton would be simplistic nonsense. If Mané squares that ball to the 3 players in red shirts queuing up for a tap-in to his right just before half-time, then the home side likely runs out very easy winners indeed (which is to say nothing of the laughable penalty decision). The danger inherent in the lineup selected was that Liverpool would play badly and struggle to create enough, but that was never the case on Sunday.

So with all of that said and the insane festive fixture list now well and truly underway, I would expect more changes tomorrow night. Any or all of Wijnaldum, Can, Coutinho, Alexander-Arnold and Firmino could start. Mané (against Chelsea), Henderson and Salah (both against Stoke) have all been rested recently, so no one is a guaranteed starter and it really depends on what Klopp is seeing both in training from his own squad and what he expects the opponents to bring.

West Brom are potentially capable of frustrating the home side: they suffered a narrow 1-2 loss at Anfield last season, and Pardew's last two visits to Anfield saw him claim 3-1 and 2-1 wins with Crystal Palace over Rodgers and Klopp respectively. Dropping Coutinho and Firmino and starting Solanke against Everton spoke of Klopp expecting that team to be good enough to beat what was in front of it (as in, good enough to beat Everton), and it would have been had it not been for a dubious penalty decision. I doubt it'll be any different tomorrow night against a team currently sitting 18th, so I wouldn't necessarily expect Coutinho, Mané, Salah and Firmino to all start.

My main fear, as it was in August, is that the fall-off from the primary creative sparks to their back-ups remains too steep for comfort, and perhaps too steep to withstand frequent rotation without dropping points. Klopp's team is obviously built to attack, and any success Liverpool enjoy this season will likely be based on their ability to carve openings and score goals. The defensive issues are to a large extent a function of Klopp's system — a back four and goalkeeper of varying levels of experience and competence with only one player (usually Henderson) protecting in front will never be altogether frugal, but as long as the attack fires the results tend to come.

That's the quandry Klopp will face over the next few weeks — provided Lallana comes back into contention soon and the squad maintains something approaching a clean bill of health, you would expect one (or both) of him and Coutinho to start, either together or interchangeably, and that's great. My fear is that the likes of Can, Wijnaldum, Milner and Oxlade-Chamberlain don't provide the level of creative reinforcement required when those players are unavailable, either injured or being rested, and that potentially hamstrings a team not geared towards grinding out narrow victories. Oxlade-Chamberlain in particular, given his price-tag and reported desire to play centrally, could really do with stepping up over the next month. I thought he was tidy against Everton without ever imposing himself on the game, but if you're deputising for Coutinho you need to be more than tidy.

Tomorrow night should be fine, the subsequent away dates at Bournemouth and Arsenal will be far trickier.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #134 on: December 12, 2017, 11:34:30 pm »
This is obviously a recent interview Klopp has given. Apparently Salah was taken off early because he had a hamstring issue. By the sounds of the piece its not a serious one, but I think he will be used sparingly for a few games.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jurgen-klopp-reveals-mohamed-salahs-14029428#ICID=sharebar_twitter
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #135 on: December 12, 2017, 11:35:12 pm »
The stat about not winning when we have 'too' much possession is interesting.presumably this stems from lesser teams that park the bus and are happy with a draw or to hit us hard on the counter. As the season wears on and smaller teams have injury problems and relegation battles do these sorts of games crop up more  often?
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #136 on: December 13, 2017, 12:09:05 am »
The stat about not winning when we have 'too' much possession is interesting.presumably this stems from lesser teams that park the bus and are happy with a draw or to hit us hard on the counter. As the season wears on and smaller teams have injury problems and relegation battles do these sorts of games crop up more  often?

Yes, Man United under Mourinho was one of the teams :D
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #137 on: December 13, 2017, 12:34:56 am »
Good to see you back POP :thumbup


Ditto - was a welcome surprise the other day when I logged in to see PoP back in the game.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #138 on: December 13, 2017, 12:44:41 am »
Salah was taken off early against Everton due to a slight hamstring.  Must rule him out for tomorrow’s match. 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jurgen-klopp-reveals-mohamed-salahs-14029428

That puts some to shame who moaned about him being taken off

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #139 on: December 13, 2017, 01:28:30 am »
That puts some to shame who moaned about him being taken off

If they knew he was injured then maybe. But they didn't. So no.

It seemed a baffling decision at the game.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #140 on: December 13, 2017, 02:15:04 am »
If they knew he was injured then maybe. But they didn't. So no.

It seemed a baffling decision at the game.

Ah that makes it ok then. What happened to given your manager the benefit of the doubt, you know him being in a better position than yourself or me for that matter to make said decision.

That's not to say that Klopp hasn't made mistakes with making subs before.


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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #141 on: December 13, 2017, 03:10:12 am »
Imagine if we go a goal down early on. Fucking hell the atmosphere will be toxic.

If a week on from winning 7-0 (and providing one of the most attacking, entertaining displays of the season anywhere in the world) the crowd gets toxic because we go a goal down then that crowd never deserves to win anything again. Thankfully, I think most people have more sense.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #142 on: December 13, 2017, 04:18:22 am »
I'll be quite happy if we bang 9 in tomorrow.

But these games always seem harder than they should be. The league is getting more tricky every year. You get the sense that there are no 'easy' games and even the sides in the past 20 or 30 years that could steamroller 'the minnows' are also struggling. How many unexpected results have we had over the last few years? The players are getting better tactially, the coaching is getting better (or more the same) and I have no doubt whatsoever that a lot of that is down to the software they use to plan for games.

This season we've been really strong against the "lesser" teams. It's really frustrating that people are ignoring the progress we've made in this department.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #143 on: December 13, 2017, 06:00:48 am »
This season we've been really strong against the "lesser" teams. It's really frustrating that people are ignoring the progress we've made in this department.
Totally, which makes me wonder if the stat about struggling with a high percentage of the ball is significantly different this season.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #144 on: December 13, 2017, 07:29:58 am »
If they knew he was injured then maybe. But they didn't. So no.

It seemed a baffling decision at the game.

He was looking leggy at the time of his substitution, and he certainly wasn't out pacing them, as their defence was pretty much able to keep up with him. That in itself knowing the way Everton "tackle" was justification for him to be replaced. I'm guessing you'd have kept him on in the circumstances, in which case he'd have probably developed a full blown hamstring injury. Sometimes its best to err on the side of caution with players, so they got it spot on.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #145 on: December 13, 2017, 07:55:35 am »
Yes, Man United under Mourinho was one of the teams :D
Isn’t the stat also a natural consequence of the fact that if we score early against defensive teams, we naturally give up more possession in the rest of the game? The need for us to attack is less after we’ve scored first, obviously the opposite is true for our opponents.

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #146 on: December 13, 2017, 07:55:40 am »
I want the strongest team we can put out. I want Can, Gini and Phil in midield. I want Mané, Bobby and Salah up top. I want to put this game beyond them at halftime so we can make early subs and rest players that way.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #147 on: December 13, 2017, 07:58:10 am »
Throw him back in tonight to test his resolve. That's what a truly decorated, celebrated and storied manager would do. All eyes on klopp I feel.

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #148 on: December 13, 2017, 08:01:05 am »
Salah will probably be rested considering the news about his hamstring. We have enough to win without him.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #149 on: December 13, 2017, 08:04:50 am »
Salah will probably be rested considering the news about his hamstring. We have enough to win without him.
. I have missed this. What news?
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #150 on: December 13, 2017, 08:06:53 am »
. I have missed this. What news?

Salah felt a tightening of his hamstring. They don't believe its serious, but they may rest him, and just see.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #151 on: December 13, 2017, 08:11:11 am »
Salah was taken off early against Everton due to a slight hamstring.  Must rule him out for tomorrow’s match. 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jurgen-klopp-reveals-mohamed-salahs-14029428

He was subbed because of the possibility of a slight hamstring problem, Klopp said "he's not injured". So it was a precaution that he'd probably not have taken on other days, say in a cup final or if we were 1-0 up to Man City at home. Salah looked as surprised as anyone. It's his turn to start on the bench anyway tonight.

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #152 on: December 13, 2017, 08:16:27 am »
In light of that, maybe rest little Mo today. Cameo at the end if need be.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #153 on: December 13, 2017, 08:23:01 am »
The schedule over this period is insane.

You can't expect teams to play their best team without resting anyone.

Salah might be rested tonight ready for Sunday. Phil and Bobby must play.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #154 on: December 13, 2017, 08:39:50 am »
If they knew he was injured then maybe. But they didn't. So no.

It seemed a baffling decision at the game.

I really don't understand why our fans can't accept that rotation is necessary. We have a game every 3 days or so.

When the team was announced Sunday, I was surprised, but thought he had decided to rotate for this game - thats his job, to make those decisions.
Journalists accused him of not realising how important the Derby was along with a number of our fans, who equally protested when Salah was withdrawn. I didnt see anyone say, "is he injured" or "hope he is not injured". All these protests were of course with hindsight.

Its clear now that Salah was removed to prevent a potential injury and that Phil and Bobby were rested as a precaution based on "a little information".

Those questioning the selection of Solanke, should also note that Sturridge pulled out with a tight hamstring.

I am not saying he gets everything right with selections or substitutions but we have to give him some slack that he is doing it for a reason, even if it is just rotation to keep players fresh. He is so aware of what happened last january.

I expect Salah to be rotated in the coming games too, but thats what we have a squad for. If the point is that the squad isn't good enough then thats a different question, but its better than it has been for a number of years.


Offline lfcgeorge

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #155 on: December 13, 2017, 08:41:54 am »
No Henderson tonight please.

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Offline Redshadow

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #156 on: December 13, 2017, 09:08:08 am »
I read that there was a scare of injury for Salah. He should be rested, but play the three of Bobby, Phil and Mane.
For me, if we want to rotate, we need to take one of them at one time. Bobby in the middle this time, if you rest him, Salah can play in the middle, etc...
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #157 on: December 13, 2017, 10:23:20 am »
He was looking leggy at the time of his substitution, and he certainly wasn't out pacing them, as their defence was pretty much able to keep up with him. That in itself knowing the way Everton "tackle" was justification for him to be replaced. I'm guessing you'd have kept him on in the circumstances, in which case he'd have probably developed a full blown hamstring injury. Sometimes its best to err on the side of caution with players, so they got it spot on.

I'm happy for him to have come off, but I would have taken Solanke off at the same time and put Coutinho and Firmino on - Mane, Firmino and Coutinho would have been enough.

Thought it was too big a game for Solanke.
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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #158 on: December 13, 2017, 10:31:55 am »
If they knew he was injured then maybe. But they didn't. So no.

It seemed a baffling decision at the game.

Was he carrying a knock going into the game ( might had a tight hamstring?)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 10:42:07 am by rocco »

Offline _Redman

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Re: Liverpool v West Brom, Wednesday December 13, Anfield, 8pm
« Reply #159 on: December 13, 2017, 10:43:43 am »
agree with this (repost):

So Klopp has spoken out about his rotation of his squad.
He has said that he took advice from club medical/sports science staff before opting to leave Coutinho and Firmino out of the derby. (Coutinho hadnt even trained between the Moscow game and the Derby remember).
And the same goes for Gini and Emre.
He played Solanke because Studge had a tight hamstring.
He has said that he took Mo off because he felt his hamstring. And even though Mo feels ok now. He may not risk him v WBA in case of further injury.
Klopp: “I took Mo Salah off because he had a hamstring a little bit. Then everyone said ‘how can you take him off?’ and stuff like this. I don’t go out and say ‘yeah, but he is close to being injured.' He is not at the moment, thank God. Hopefully we took him off early enough.”
So all the hundreds of people on here who have gone mental at Klopp for his team selection since the Derby. Do you feel a bit daft now? Will you actually read this or just ignore it so not to look in the wrong?
These players arent robots.
Managing this squad over such a crazy hectic schedule is such a delicate thing. And reacting to medical advise and catching things early before they get worse is an amazing thing now in this day and age. Monitoring fatigue levels and manageing it. Its there. Use it!
If your car started playing up do you keep driving it until it dies and breaksdown all together and costs you an arm and a leg to get sorted leaving you without that car for a long time. Or do you take it to the garage to get it sorted early before it gets worse leaving you without that car for maybe just a few hrs?
Klopp isnt an 'idiot'.
He isnt a 'loser'.
He isnt 'clueless'.
He wasnt 'taking risks' in the derby. In fact he was doing the opposite.
He wasnt 'overconfident'.
Team selection and season planning isnt just something he and his staff do in 5 minutes.
There is countless elements to consider. More than you can even imagine. And countless information from countless sources and departments within his management and medical team to consider.
Do you know about burn-out prevention? Do you know about making sure that every member of your squad feels like they are crucial to the team & hence giving them a chance in big games? Klopp is trying to prevent last season’s winter period crash. Can’t see that? Goodness.
Lets say he did rest Coutinho vs WBA. What happens then when we don’t win vs WBA. You will be here lamenting that Coutinho was rested, etc. Any guarantees that we will win vs WBA even with Coutinho? Klopp has a big squad & many games. Recent results justify his rotation.
Ive seen people say "but it was the Derby, massive game for the fans" (im one of those fans aswell yano. In fact i watched the game with a load of blues). You want to talk about “bragging rights?” Oh, come on. Whats more important to Liverpool and Klopp? Bragging rights for the fans in a Monday morning or giving ourselves the best chance for a successfull winter period and then in turn our league position at the end of the season.
Its how well we do up the table than vs Everton. Klopp’s management of the players sees us with a great winter period results-wise, the “lost pride” vs Everton will be forgotten sharpish. Big picture, always.
We play around a third of our games in 5 or 6 weeks over this winter period!! Its massive!
13 games in 44 days. Thats a game every 3.8 days. Hardly anytime for recovery, hardly anytime for training. Hardly and time for rest. Hardly any time for preparation.
Stop the kneejerking and look at the bigger picture. Yes we want our best team to play everygame. Yes we want our 'fab 4' to play everygame. My educated guess is that Klopp would like that too. But it just isnt possible.
There is reason and method in everything they do in game preparation and selection.