Author Topic: George Best - on a par with Messi?  (Read 10051 times)

Offline Linudden

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #80 on: September 22, 2021, 10:04:42 pm »
So who are the "handful" of players we can mention "legitimately" in the same sentence as Messi?

For me, Cristiano Ronaldo, Pelé, Maradona, Cruyff and you could make a case for Zidane, Puskás or Di Stéfano although those are more dubious in nature. Definitely not the older Ronaldo for example as great as he was. I don't like comparing attacking and defensive players in general so it's apples to oranges there.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 10:09:08 pm by Linudden »
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Offline Circa1892

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #81 on: September 22, 2021, 10:09:08 pm »
For me, Cristiano Ronaldo, Pelé, Maradona, Cruyff and you could make a case for Zidane, Pusklás or Di Stéfano although those are more dubious in nature. Definitely not the older Ronaldo for example as great as he was. I don't like comparing attacking and defensive players in general so it's apples to oranges there.

“Definitely not the older Ronaldo” - justify that? He didn’t have the longevity - but if you ever saw him in his pomp he was like nothing else before or since.

Offline Linudden

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #82 on: September 22, 2021, 10:10:54 pm »
“Definitely not the older Ronaldo” - justify that? He didn’t have the longevity - but if you ever saw him in his pomp he was like nothing else before or since.

I saw him score twice against Germany in the World Cup final live on TV. He was great and remained one of the finer goalscorers but just those 1-2 years before his knee injuries began isn't enough to match consistent brilliance for near or above a decade. It's true that Ronaldo's 96-97 season is one of the finest attacker seasons on record but he never hit 26 league goals ever again after that.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 10:12:35 pm by Linudden »
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #83 on: September 22, 2021, 10:12:00 pm »
That’s a shocking shout :D
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Linudden

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #84 on: September 22, 2021, 10:12:55 pm »
That’s a shocking shout :D

Always lurking in the shadows the legendary Lobo :D

What I meant to say with the older Ronaldo is that people assume a lot more to 'delivering at the World Cup' than they should. Ronaldo is Brazilian. He was always going to have a chance at fighting for that title. In modern times, Ibrahimovic and Lewandowski never had that shot by default while Klose (a less complete player than either) had. It's going to be the same for Haaland. Norway have five million people and half of them are skiiers ;D Suárez won the Copa América with the third best team in his first summer at Liverpool but it's not the same for people either. That's why I much prefer to judge what happened at club level. While Pelé and Maradona were most famous for their World Cup exploits they backed it up by delivering consistently at club level for longer times.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 10:37:46 pm by Linudden »
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #85 on: September 22, 2021, 10:42:36 pm »
Always lurking in the shadows the legendary Lobo :D

What I meant to say with the older Ronaldo is that people assume a lot more to 'delivering at the World Cup' than they should. Ronaldo is Brazilian. He was always going to have a chance at fighting for that title. In modern times, Ibrahimovic and Lewandowski never had that shot by default while Klose (a less complete player than either) had. It's going to be the same for Haaland. Norway have five million people and half of them are skiiers ;D Stoichkov took Bulgaria to the semis and Suárez won the Copa América but it's not the same for people either. That's why I much prefer to judge what happened at club level. While Pelé and Maradona were most famous for their World Cup exploits they backed it up by delivering consistently at club level for longer times.

I think, if you're talking about a Top 10, I wouldn't place Ronaldo there. But he's there and thereabouts in a Top 20. For the record, I rate Romario more than Ronaldo, but he must be at least the 3rd best pure No. 9 after Romario and Van Basten. Gerd Muller is somewhere around those.

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #86 on: September 22, 2021, 10:49:35 pm »
I think, if you're talking about a Top 10, I wouldn't place Ronaldo there. But he's there and thereabouts in a Top 20. For the record, I rate Romario more than Ronaldo, but he must be at least the 3rd best pure No. 9 after Romario and Van Basten. Gerd Muller is somewhere around those.
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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #87 on: September 22, 2021, 10:53:13 pm »
I saw him score twice against Germany in the World Cup final live on TV. He was great and remained one of the finer goalscorers but just those 1-2 years before his knee injuries began isn't enough to match consistent brilliance for near or above a decade. It's true that Ronaldo's 96-97 season is one of the finest attacker seasons on record but he never hit 26 league goals ever again after that.

You saw him score twice against Germany in a World Cup final, 3 years after he didn't play any football because of two seperate knee injuries, he also played with a broken toe in that WC, so the fact that he managed to do even that is a miracle on its own.

he didn't have just one or two years before the injuries, that's incorrect. he scored 150 goals in 181 matches, for three different clubs over 4 and a half seasons.


I like how you specifically mention 26 goals as it suits your argument, because scoring 23 league goals in 31 matches, and 24 league goals in 32 matches is just terrible since it's not exactly 26. In addition only specifying league goals, and discounting goals he scored in other competions. It's clear he wasn't the same player post his injuries, however he did score 104 goals in 177 matches for Real after his injuries. Two consecutive seasons with 30 plus goals in all competitions in 44 and 47 matches. The 3rd season he scored 24 in 45.

Goals aside, he had 35 assists, so 138 goals and assists in 177 matches for Real Madrid post injuries, clearly a world class level of production. Overall he had 7/8 seasons at the highest level, the first half at a significant level because he didn't have said injuries.





Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #88 on: September 22, 2021, 10:54:12 pm »
So who are the "handful" of players we can mention "legitimately" in the same sentence as Messi?

If you go for a Top 10, I would include players who transcended their position to be along with Messi - Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Di Stefano, Cristiano, Garrincha, Platini and Romario. A further 10 would include the likes of Zidane, Ronaldo, Matthaus, Baresi, Maldini, Yashin, Van Basten, Puskas and possibly Eusebio are slightly below them. Best is in the next tier.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #89 on: September 22, 2021, 10:55:09 pm »

Offline Linudden

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #90 on: September 22, 2021, 10:56:19 pm »
I think, if you're talking about a Top 10, I wouldn't place Ronaldo there. But he's there and thereabouts in a Top 20. For the record, I rate Romario more than Ronaldo, but he must be at least the 3rd best pure No. 9 after Romario and Van Basten. Gerd Muller is somewhere around those.

If talking about the best wingers/wide forwards of all time I think Best could fit into the lower top 10 for sure and was probably above anything on display in those positions before the tactics and the roles changed once Wenger pulled Henry out wide and re-created the truly goalscoring inside forward. Even around the turn of the millennium goalscoring widemen were rare and they usually had in mind to get to the touchline to deliver a cross to their fox in the box. Due to the modern era and the abundance of electric players in those roles, I'd definitely put him behind Henry, Neymar, Mbappé and Salah in that category though not to mention Messi and the Portuguese Ronaldo.

As for the Brazilian Ronaldo, he's in my top six for pure #9 with those three names + Lewandowski and Suárez. They're very evenly matched between them. Then again, Messi is the best #9 of all time when he played that role a bit differently but he was a bit too agile to truly be considered a true nine so it's all semantics really. It's hard to consider the likes of Puskás (172 cm), Agüero (173 cm) and Villa (175 cm) as pure nines after all even though all were devastating forwards  :D
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 11:05:52 pm by Linudden »
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #91 on: September 22, 2021, 11:05:37 pm »
If talking about the best wingers/wide forwards of all time I think Best could fit into the lower top 10 for sure. Definitely behind Henry and Salah for me though.

As for Ronaldo, he's in my top six for pure #9 with those three names + Lewandowski and Suárez. They're very evenly matched between them. Then again, Messi is the best #9 of all time when he played that role a bit differently but he was a bit too agile to truly be considered a true nine so it's all semantics really. It's hard to consider the likes of Puskás (172 cm), Agüero (173 cm) and Villa (175 cm) as pure nines after all even though all were devastating forwards  :D

Ignoring wide forwards, and considering only pure wingers, I would place Best in a Top 5, maybe even Top 3 of Garrincha, Matthews, Figo and Dzajic.

As for No. 9s, I would say Aguero evolved into one over the years (Cristiano as well), whereas Messi, Puskas and Villa did not.

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #92 on: September 22, 2021, 11:05:50 pm »
Zico wasn't a pure No. 9?
Is that a precondition.
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Offline Linudden

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #93 on: September 22, 2021, 11:06:56 pm »
Ignoring wide forwards, and considering only pure wingers, I would place Best in a Top 5, maybe even Top 3 of Garrincha, Matthews, Figo and Dzajic.

As for No. 9s, I would say Aguero evolved into one over the years (Cristiano as well), whereas Messi, Puskas and Villa did not.

I added some more stuff so you might want to check whether there are any more points to add, damn you were fast :D Pure wingers top 3-5 that's more or less accurate.
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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #94 on: September 22, 2021, 11:09:24 pm »
I love Lewandowski, but I would have Ronaldo whether before or after injuries, any day of the week, particularly before the injuries, what he did on the pitch, how and the pace he did it at, whilst scoring a ridiculous amount of goals, exceeds Lewa as brilliant as he's been.

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #95 on: September 22, 2021, 11:11:55 pm »
Is that a precondition.

In the post you replied to? Yes. We were talking about Ronaldo and where he stands among No. 9s.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #96 on: September 22, 2021, 11:14:19 pm »
I love Lewandowski, but I would have Ronaldo whether before or after injuries, any day of the week, particularly before the injuries, what he did on the pitch, how and the pace he did it at, whilst scoring a ridiculous amount of goals, exceeds Lewa as brilliant as he's been.

Yeah, I would take Ronaldo over Lewa as well. Suarez? Then it becomes closer, but I'd still take peak Ronaldo. He was a physical specimen. He had pace, strength and footwork to go with it.

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #97 on: September 22, 2021, 11:14:19 pm »
For me nothing has changed football as much in the modern era as Wenger having double inside forwards in Pirčs and Henry and having such success with it. That really made players the likes of Best and John Barnes obsolete because in the modern era they'd been playing on opposite flank cutting inside and scoring more goals instead.
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #98 on: September 22, 2021, 11:21:58 pm »
For me nothing has changed football as much in the modern era as Wenger having double inside forwards in Pirčs and Henry and having such success with it. That really made players the likes of Best and John Barnes obsolete because in the modern era they'd been playing on opposite flank cutting inside and scoring more goals instead.

Yeah, wingers are rare now. Gnabry, Sane, Sancho, Chiesa, Perisic, who else? 4-3-3 and Back 5 has killed the position.

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #99 on: September 22, 2021, 11:22:01 pm »
Yeah, I would take Ronaldo over Lewa as well. Suarez? Then it becomes closer, but I'd still take peak Ronaldo. He was a physical specimen. He had pace, strength and footwork to go with it.

The one area that Suarez is better in for me is creating chances, he has a ridiculous amount of assists in his career given he's a #9.

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #100 on: September 22, 2021, 11:29:58 pm »
The one area that Suarez is better in for me is creating chances, he has a ridiculous amount of assists in his career given he's a #9.

True. Suarez also had an unconventional style of dribbling that had defenders in knots. I mean, at his peak. Now he just waits in the box to score.

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #101 on: September 22, 2021, 11:56:58 pm »
 We're going off on a bit of a tangent now, Lewandowski, exceptional goalscorer but not really in the conversation as one of the best of all time, I'd argue the recently departed Gerd Muller would be more deserving as a top goalscorer.  Puskás or Di Stéfano might have a shout but how would we really compare them none of us saw them and the few clips that exist are without context. What about John Charles, Stanley Mathews, Tom Finney where do they fit in, Shanks thought Finney was the best of his generation.


A few of us saw Best in the flesh and I've no idea where he stands, but believe me he was exceptional, it wasn't just the hype that existed around Man Utd, his balance ability to glide past players, the way he moved his body made you realise he was a cut above those he played with. Peter Thompson was a fantastic dribbler who's downfall was he enjoyed his own skill so much he'd go back and beat a player twice but Best was better it's not often you can enjoy the skill of a rival but Best was that good better than Messi, I doubt it the game has moved on, I remember watching St John pull a ball out of the air with his foot, me and my Dad talked about it on the bus all the way home, what totally outrageous skill,  but  50 years later any decent kid can do that now, certainly any professional footballer, that Timbo can pose the question with his brilliant video, shows how good Best was and also that the one player who would defacto be seen as the best player now is Lionel Messi, another rival player you  sometimes just have to sitback and admire regardless of who you support









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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #102 on: September 23, 2021, 02:04:28 am »
What a fantastic video...  Georgie Best makes my soul jump, this kind of instinctual dribbling, evasion from exasperated and tormented defenders, and the clinical accuracy is such a rare combination.

Its mercurial, and levitating.

What a great 18 minutes of football watching pleasure!

Beautifully put P lad. It’s captivating. I did also love De Factos video of Ronaldo - a stunning reminder of just what a fantastic player he was - but for me that balletic poise and grace of Best take his incisions and goals to a more sublime level in a similar way to Messi at his balletic best albeit poor Lionel has to make do without the added aesthetic of that mesmeric flapping shirt which was such a staple element of the Best magic.  ;D

If sport is to inspire and excite then surely only hearts of stone fail to be lifted by those 18 minute compilations of skinny Bestie and tubby Ronaldo.  ;D

Overall I guess I do find myself most in agreement with Yorky’s, Albie’s and Armand’s terrific posts in respect of the relative futility of differing era comparison. Players can only excel in the era they play in. That said, where would we be without the fun in making those comparisons. It makes for such great reading.

So thanks to all for making it such an enjoyable thread so far. Hopefully more to come - with accompanying videos perhaps.
 :)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 02:10:57 am by Timbo's Goals »

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #103 on: September 23, 2021, 03:36:06 am »
We're going off on a bit of a tangent now, Lewandowski, exceptional goalscorer but not really in the conversation as one of the best of all time, I'd argue the recently departed Gerd Muller would be more deserving as a top goalscorer.  Puskás or Di Stéfano might have a shout but how would we really compare them none of us saw them and the few clips that exist are without context. What about John Charles, Stanley Mathews, Tom Finney where do they fit in, Shanks thought Finney was the best of his generation.


A few of us saw Best in the flesh and I've no idea where he stands, but believe me he was exceptional, it wasn't just the hype that existed around Man Utd, his balance ability to glide past players, the way he moved his body made you realise he was a cut above those he played with. Peter Thompson was a fantastic dribbler who's downfall was he enjoyed his own skill so much he'd go back and beat a player twice but Best was better it's not often you can enjoy the skill of a rival but Best was that good better than Messi, I doubt it the game has moved on, I remember watching St John pull a ball out of the air with his foot, me and my Dad talked about it on the bus all the way home, what totally outrageous skill,  but  50 years later any decent kid can do that now, certainly any professional footballer, that Timbo can pose the question with his brilliant video, shows how good Best was and also that the one player who would defacto be seen as the best player now is Lionel Messi, another rival player you  sometimes just have to sitback and admire regardless of who you support

Yeah, the question is how many players do we consider as one of the best players of all time? There have been hundreds and hundreds of great players over the years, where do we put the bracket? Do we go to different positions and then assess them, which was what the recent discussion was about (which means we were not really going on a tangent) or do we just club them all together and then discuss the Top 10, 20 or even 100 players. What's the magic number to be called one of the best players of all-time?

I did mention Mathews as one of the best wingers I know along with Best in a Top 5. John Charles must be one of the most versatile players I've ever known, but was he like Lewandowski, a genuine Ballon d'Or deserving player or the best striker in the world at his time? I know, he was voted 3rd once. I do agree with you in considering Gerd Muller as a higher deserving player than Lewandowski, but it's not as if the gap is huge. If we're bringing in Finney to the discussion, who probably won't make a Top 50 of all-time, but would definitely make a Top 100, then Lewandowski is also in the mix for a Top 100 position. On one hand, we are too quick to dismiss current players.

On the other hand, we may not have seen Di Stefano or Puskas, but from achievements and per football historians, they were able to compare them along with the Top 10 players that we have seen, I think that's enough to put them in the mix. Those were the times when quality of league was also different to what it us now, the likes of Garrincha, Pele and Zico made their names playing in the Brazilian league, no player can do that now. If watching by flesh is the only criteria, all of us are going to ignore some of the greats that have come before and then we end up with a generation that wants to big up Salah by putting down Stevie, as it happened in this very forum. For that not to happen, football research, books and whatever clips we have of those days are very important and they've helped shape my football knowledge for sure.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 04:15:34 am by PoetryInMotion »

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #104 on: September 23, 2021, 08:43:07 am »
Where does this guy feature? For me he has been the most entertaining footballer I've watched in my 37 years on the planet.

I would literally tune in just to watch him, magical at times - would do things would a football never seen before.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_uIrRMe56M

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #105 on: September 23, 2021, 09:50:49 am »
Only Pele, Maradona and Messi belong in any GOAT debate, let's be honest.

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #106 on: September 23, 2021, 10:59:03 am »
My dad used to see Best as literally the best. My dad was a Red til the day he died, but had no qualms over lavishing praise onto Best.

From what I remember too, Best was an honest and decent man.
My old man said the same about Best, best he’d seen play.

Maybe when he was young, but unfortunately, in later life he became a horrible c*nt of a human being.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/fionola-meredith/fionola-meredith-remembering-george-best-as-both-a-deeply-flawed-man-and-a-fabulous-football-genius-37502831.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-why-do-we-ignore-the-abuse-of-women-400397.html

George Best first beat his wife Alex on her 25th birthday, when he punched her to the floor and kicked her six times in the chest and face. Then, on Christmas Day 2003, he gave her a bruised lip and swollen face. "So what if she's in hospital? It's the best place for her," he snapped at the press the next day.

When Paul Gascoigne admitted to having hospitalised his wife, Sheryl, "Bestie" leapt to his defence. "We all give the wife a good slap. I know I do," he said. When Alex finally left him, the press swooped – to attack her. One typical columnist said she had "not done badly" out of him, and claimed Best and Gazza's only flaw was that "they are suckers for romance".
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 11:06:30 am by rossipersempre »
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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #107 on: September 23, 2021, 11:22:59 am »
It's personal taste really isn't it. I was always a Kenny man as opposed to a Keegan man. I preferred  Kenny's brain to the legwork of Keegan. And I get the (almost) gayness of it - I'm sure I was gay for Pele when I was a kid. In different times the operation would have been done. Though I prefer the showmanship of Rivelino nowadays ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg5j4weQFO8 ) but wouldn't put him with the top tier. I wouldn't make the comparison between Best and Pele, maybe Jairzinho, Cruyff or Garrincha would be the better comparison for me.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 11:27:37 am by Dr. Beaker »
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Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #108 on: September 23, 2021, 01:24:43 pm »
Only Pele, Maradona and Messi belong in any GOAT debate, let's be honest.

 ;D

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #109 on: September 23, 2021, 01:27:59 pm »
Where does this guy feature? For me he has been the most entertaining footballer I've watched in my 37 years on the planet.

I would literally tune in just to watch him, magical at times - would do things would a football never seen before.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_uIrRMe56M

As Trend said - watching that should lift the soul of any footy fan. Amazing.

Loved, too, the way at the end he had three first goals for Brazil - got to be unique that.   :o ;D

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #110 on: September 23, 2021, 01:30:18 pm »
My old man said the same about Best, best he’d seen play.


And your arl fella was spot on Rossi lad.

I'm ignoring the rest of your post BTW cos it doesn't quite fit in with my agenda  ;D

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #111 on: September 23, 2021, 01:36:07 pm »
Eusebio!

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #112 on: September 23, 2021, 01:36:51 pm »
And your arl fella was spot on Rossi lad.

I'm ignoring the rest of your post BTW cos it doesn't quite fit in with my agenda  ;D

It's worth remembering though! And who said great footballers had to be great human beings? Messi and the taxman, Maradona and the Mafia, Pele and the Brazilian dictators etc.

In fact, it's pretty widely recognised throughout the football world, that only Liverpool footballers are also paragons of human virtue.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #113 on: September 23, 2021, 01:37:41 pm »
It's personal taste really isn't it.

Is dead right Doc. Except some think their own personal taste is right and others don't quite see it that way. Great fun tho eh.  ;D

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #114 on: September 23, 2021, 01:59:28 pm »
Only Pele, Maradona and Messi belong in any GOAT debate, let's be honest.
Only Garrincha belongs in the goat debate - hopefully.
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Rile-Me costed L. Nee-Naw "The Child" Torrence the first jack the hat-trick since Eon Rush vs Accursed Toffos, many moons passed. Nee-Naw he could have done a concreted his palace in the pantyhose off the LibPole Gods...was not was for the invented intervention of Rile-Me whistler.

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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #115 on: September 23, 2021, 02:05:21 pm »
Only Garrincha belongs in the goat debate - hopefully.

 ;D
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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #116 on: September 23, 2021, 02:19:48 pm »
Only Garrincha belongs in the goat debate - hopefully.

That's not bad at all, Doc... :D
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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #117 on: September 23, 2021, 02:22:58 pm »
Cracking thread, the replies have been great to read and videos lovely to watch. Football eh, what a game
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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #118 on: September 23, 2021, 02:25:26 pm »
Where does this guy feature? For me he has been the most entertaining footballer I've watched in my 37 years on the planet.

I would literally tune in just to watch him, magical at times - would do things would a football never seen before.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_uIrRMe56M

Jesus Fowler....  Thanks for this, what a video.

This one gave me the giggles and goosebumps - that kid, people forget, is pure filthy magic.   Could watch him all day and not get bored.

Christ on a bike, he was a genius
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Re: George Best - on a par with Messi?
« Reply #119 on: September 23, 2021, 02:37:30 pm »
Cracking thread, the replies have been great to read and videos lovely to watch. Football eh, what a game

It's so interesting. I've had to revise one or two things after seeing some of the highlight reels. First George Best doing the 'Cruyff Turn' before Cruyff*. Then Rivelino doing the 'Elastico' before Ronaldhino. Someone will pop up doing the 'Roulette' years before Zidane next.

I also used to believe Bugsy Burrows was the most skilful footballer I'd ever seen. Not any more.

*I've just remembered my mate who is a performance artist and once came up with a stunning piece of himself performing what he considered the three greatest 'moves' of the 20th century. The first was a sort of imitation of Neil Armstrong walking on the Moon, the second was the Chinese student shuffling from side to side to stop the tank regiment in Tiananmen Square, and the third was the Cruyff Turn. Not bad. 
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 02:41:30 pm by Yorkykopite »
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