Author Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)  (Read 922822 times)

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #200 on: January 28, 2017, 02:44:09 pm »
Didn't get Firmino off when we needed 2 goals ?

I think it was clear that Klopp was more concerned about him getting a break than winning. But we should not be ending up with 4 or 5 defenders on the pitch at the end. At some points we had 3 centre backs and 3 midfielders next to eah other behind the play.

Online JackWard33

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #201 on: January 28, 2017, 02:44:38 pm »
He should have added to it. He had the money and the time. He either overestimated the team or underestimated the teams. Its a mess up from him.



Course he/we should - I've bored people senseless saying we were short in the summer and short now.
But its not binary ... people are either 'we're going to win the league' or 'its all over ... its shit... give up'.... its pretty draining

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #202 on: January 28, 2017, 02:45:57 pm »
Course he/we should - I've bored people senseless saying we were short in the summer and short now.
But its not binary ... people are either 'we're going to win the league' or 'its all over ... its shit... give up'.... its pretty draining

Its close to pretty much over in terms of winning anything. Its difficult to get up for a battle for top four at this time.

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #203 on: January 28, 2017, 02:47:01 pm »
I think it was clear that Klopp was more concerned about him getting a break than winning. But we should not be ending up with 4 or 5 defenders on the pitch at the end. At some points we had 3 centre backs and 3 midfielders next to eah other behind the play.

Thought we would have brought a defender or Lucas off for Danny

Offline Zlen

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #204 on: January 28, 2017, 02:51:31 pm »
It doesn't at all.

It really, really does.
Crossing for 90 minutes without anybody to cross to, plethora of defensive brain farts, corners more likely to result in a goal against us then against opposition, wrong tactics and late responses from the bench - all present in our latest run. I think we're more then anything tired, but Klopp made his job more difficult.

Offline Snoopy29

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #205 on: January 28, 2017, 02:53:50 pm »
Whats the point in discussing...it's the same shit all over again. Chelsea will win league next 3 years...fuck it.
This Liverpool team is to blame for their problems.
Don't even know where it started...
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Offline smicer07

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #206 on: January 28, 2017, 02:55:22 pm »
The one thing frustrating me on these boards is people seem so hellbent on attacking people that have a bad word to say against the club/manager/players, and seem to just live in cloud cuckoo land.

1. Does it matter if we beat Chelsea on Tuesday? We lost 3 points to Swansea, a game we should have won, one, just cancels the other out. It isn't good enough.

2. We're out of 2 cup competitions in 3 days. We are Liverpool Football Club. We are here to win Trophies.

3. We are playing ****

4. We have won 1 in 8 games

5. We aren't changing anything

6. People keep talking about how we're going to get this big pot of money at the end of the season like its going to magically appear.

-

I can't stand the positivity. The club stinks from top to bottom. This isn't a Kenny, Rodgers, Klopp problem. This is a club problem. I think we could hire any manager in the world right now, and still be where we are in 20 years time.

The fans hang on to our history, we think we have a devine right to win games (as do the players it seems) without putting in a performance.

We aint going anywhere until we realise that we are a long way of getting our club back to what it was.

As for top 4 - your having a laugh.

You're.

Awful post. We're 2 points off 2nd.

Offline redmark

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #207 on: January 28, 2017, 02:56:16 pm »
Thought we would have brought a defender or Lucas off for Danny

I thought that was fine - all prior indications (over several games) were that just loading more attackers onto the pitch would just see them getting in each other's way more and more. Wolves were still breaking effectively and the three at the back, with a CB available in a wide area, probably saved us conceding a third on a couple of occasions. Too many other issues to be slightly concerned about, at the moment. We've been steadily stagnating for weeks. There was a moment in the first half that summed up my frustration: Wijnaldum on the ball, motioned Randall to move forwards; and then played the pass (too slowly) behind him. It's just sloppy, slow, cautious. Pretty much everything a Klopp side shouldn't be.

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #208 on: January 28, 2017, 02:56:28 pm »
It really, really does.
Crossing for 90 minutes without anybody to cross to, plethora of defensive brain farts, corners more likely to result in a goal against us then against opposition, wrong tactics and late responses from the bench - all present in our latest run. I think we're more then anything tired, but Klopp made his job more difficult.

We've played badly I'm not arguing that but the idea that this squad and Klopp's reign / project is similar to the end of Rodgers days is what I'm pushing back against.
It's just a poor run of performances because our squad is too thin. We've all seen enough this season to know we have good players here and an extremely capable manager

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #209 on: January 28, 2017, 02:58:49 pm »
So somewhere along the line we stopped knowing what to do against sides who sit deep and counter with purpose. You could say it's a years old problem but it had looked like we had figured out how to deal with it. So what's changed? Just a collective loss of form? Fucked if I know but everyone has a template of how to play against us at the moment.

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #210 on: January 28, 2017, 03:00:53 pm »
I'm what? 2 Points of 5th. 4 points of 6th? What's your point?

We aren't changing anything, teams have worked out how to play against us; we can't score to save our life. We can't defend and haven't been able to defend for a long long long time.

In a game of football you need to:

Outscore your opponent.


Pretty simple the game of football. Unfortunately, we can't do the 2 most crucial things in order to do this.

This is a terrible post. Seriously what point are you trying to make?

We're the top scorers in the league and half the games recently haven't been our first team playing.
Stop talking in absolutes its mindless.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #211 on: January 28, 2017, 03:01:09 pm »
So somewhere along the line we stopped knowing what to do against sides who sit deep and counter with purpose. You could say it's a years old problem but it had looked like we had figured out how to deal with it. So what's changed? Just a collective loss of form? Fucked if I know but everyone has a template of how to play against us at the moment.

Its definitely form. Some players are no so lax of confidence that they are not trying anything and are not making runs forward.

The manager has to be braver as well. We had 4 defenders on the field and Wijnaldum, Coutinho and Ejaria next to each other. He needed to roll the dice more. At one point the ball went forward and i counted 6 outfield players behind the play, at 2-0 down.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 03:02:48 pm by killer_heels »

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #212 on: January 28, 2017, 03:01:39 pm »
So somewhere along the line we stopped knowing what to do against sides who sit deep and counter with purpose. You could say it's a years old problem but it had looked like we had figured out how to deal with it. So what's changed? Just a collective loss of form? Fucked if I know but everyone has a template of how to play against us at the moment.

Lack of pace. No pace or dribbling ability outside of a still recovering Coutinho.  Firmino isn't too bad, but has a completely different style of dribbling. We basically don't have any genuine ball carriers that can beat a couple of men within 5 yards. Except Mane of course.
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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #213 on: January 28, 2017, 03:02:17 pm »
I thought that was fine - all prior indications (over several games) were that just loading more attackers onto the pitch would just see them getting in each other's way more and more. Wolves were still breaking effectively and the three at the back, with a CB available in a wide area, probably saved us conceding a third on a couple of occasions. Too many other issues to be slightly concerned about, at the moment. We've been steadily stagnating for weeks. There was a moment in the first half that summed up my frustration: Wijnaldum on the ball, motioned Randall to move forwards; and then played the pass (too slowly) behind him. It's just sloppy, slow, cautious. Pretty much everything a Klopp side shouldn't be.



Taking a defensive player off and bringing  Danny on wouldn't have had them of top of each other with Danny Firmino and Origi as the front 3

Our build up play is just to slow imo

Offline IanZG

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #214 on: January 28, 2017, 03:03:59 pm »
AS OF THIS TIME, THERE WILL BE NO MORE EXCUSES FROM KLOPP.

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Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #215 on: January 28, 2017, 03:04:31 pm »
This is a tactics thread!

Offline redmark

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #216 on: January 28, 2017, 03:08:01 pm »
So somewhere along the line we stopped knowing what to do against sides who sit deep and counter with purpose. You could say it's a years old problem but it had looked like we had figured out how to deal with it. So what's changed? Just a collective loss of form? Fucked if I know but everyone has a template of how to play against us at the moment.

What it appears we're *not* doing as much of, is the overloads and one-twos around the opposition fullback area. Partly of course because we're moving the ball across the pitch so slowly that when it gets there, the opposition have shifted across and have bodies around the fullback. (When we have done it well, it's often been because Milner's right footedness actually helps him play balls into that area quickly and on the inside of the player blocking the line; Moreno can't do that, more because he's left footed than any particular weakness of his). That problem is exacerbated by the absence of Mane's pace and Lallana's speed-of-foot (at his best, which hasn't been for a few weeks). In recent games I can't help feeling that both Wijnaldum and Origi have had a tendency to take too many touches and dwell on the ball too, which is taking the momentum out of our passing phases.

We've developed a bit of nerviness on the counter (it seems to be Matip's glaring weakness, for example), though it's not been helped by the lack of Henderson (who's probably our best combination of pace and defensive technique in that area) in many of these games.
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Offline sms1986

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #217 on: January 28, 2017, 03:08:20 pm »
I have a question to ask everyone also:

What will constitute a good season?

I would have been happy with top four and/or a trophy, top four is still a possibility (so is the title, especially if Chelsea get beaten by us and Arsenal) but I think anywhere in the top six will constitute a good season, and I personally think we'll finish in the top three.

Offline Kekule

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #218 on: January 28, 2017, 03:09:08 pm »
So somewhere along the line we stopped knowing what to do against sides who sit deep and counter with purpose. You could say it's a years old problem but it had looked like we had figured out how to deal with it. So what's changed? Just a collective loss of form? Fucked if I know but everyone has a template of how to play against us at the moment.

It's confidence/belief...two fold. After a few dicey results Liverpool players don't seem to be as confident that they'll break the opposition down, and the opposition now seem to have absolute belief that if they stay in formation and keep concentration they'll keep Liverpool at bay and will get a handful of chances on the break.  There isn't any mad/desperate/frustrated sprinting out of position to try and influence anything. They just sit tight.

...oh and we've also decided to give up tackling for 2017 by the looks of it. Most people's New Years resolutions have been broken by now, we seem to have the willpower to want to keep this one going.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 03:11:59 pm by Kekule »

Offline redmark

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #219 on: January 28, 2017, 03:09:39 pm »
Taking a defensive player off and bringing  Danny on wouldn't have had them of top of each other with Danny Firmino and Origi as the front 3
All three of those have been getting in each other's way - and most importantly, not really combining well - for weeks when even two of them are on the pitch.

Our build up play is just to slow imo
Absolutely agreed.
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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #220 on: January 28, 2017, 03:13:30 pm »
It's hard not for the build up to he slow when teams sit so deep though. A bit chicken and egg I guess but I do have some sympathy there.


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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #221 on: January 28, 2017, 03:14:15 pm »
This is a tactics thread!
Yeah, This.  Those that want to moan about the game go to the post game thread and stay out of this one.  There's been some good debate/conversations recently and there's no need to come in here and piss and moan and get the thread locked. 

Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #222 on: January 28, 2017, 03:17:15 pm »
The only positive for us is that from here on we'll be playing 3 games a month, except April when we play 6 games. There shouldn't be issues with players not having enough rest or training time. We should be able to have a bit more consistency in selection for the remainder of the season.

I think Klopp has to figure out who his best back 5 are, and stick with them rain or shine unless there are injuries. For me, that is probably Karius, Clyne, Lovren, Matip and Milner, with Gomez on the bench, and perhaps TAA as backup. Klavan and Moreno aren't good enough, and Lucas hasn't looked anywhere near good enough as a centre half. Simply put, we'll need to reinforce with a top LB and CB when the next transfer window comes along.

Our problems in attack, IMHO, come from too much of the same thing. Because of this, we don't actually have a plan B. We can't adapt how we play the game which is why we continually experience similar performances even though we make sweeping changes in the team and play relatively poorer opposition. They've well and truly figured us out and there seems to be little we're doing about it. I'm just firmly unconvinced by Wijnaldum, Can, and Origi by what I've seen so far. Sturridge can't really be relied upon as we all know, and now that the goals have dried up, I'm inclined to agree with Carra in that without goals Sturridge brings very little to the team.

A lot of problems to fix. Getting the right side out on to the pitch is a start, and perhaps trying to introduce a bit more risk into how we play and inject a bit more movement off the ball might help also. Ultimately, one feels that we are still 4-5 players short of a decent first team.


Offline BazC

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #223 on: January 28, 2017, 03:22:11 pm »
We need better back up players if the set up of the team isn't going to change. Sturridge and Can coming in has been horrendous, and Origi, whilst he did well the first few games without Coutinho, has been pretty awful recently too. Either we switch the system around when they're missing, or we need players more suited to the 4-3-3 when the key players are missing. Mane has been a massive miss - we *knew* he was going to be out for a month. How did we think slotting Sturridge or Origi in the team, moving Lallana forward and Can in midfield would do even half as good a job at replicating the speed, dynamism, the creativity and above all, the intelligence? The system should have been changed to better accommodate the players who had to come in. It's been a big mistake and will cost us silverware this season.

Only hope we have now is somehow getting to within 5-7pts off Chelsea by the time we get to the last 10 games of this season. If we stay clear of injuries and too much fatigue, then I think we can still do something big. It's worth noting that whilst we talk of a lack of Plan B, that Plan A (and fuck, it was a pretty impressive one - the best football I've ever seen a Liverpool side play), was awesome at the start of this season. We haven't had those players on the pitch for 2 months. They'll likely be back together within 3 weeks. We have to win against Chelsea and Hull in between to keep any hope alive really.
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Offline Il Conte

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #224 on: January 28, 2017, 03:28:18 pm »
It's hard not for the build up to he slow when teams sit so deep though. A bit chicken and egg I guess but I do have some sympathy there.



Yes. I'd like us to start using the flanks more efficently in the early build up. That is where the space is and thus where we can probably move the ball forward a bit quicker. The way we seem to do it now is we try doing everything through the middle, which is usually congested and by the time we get the ball out to the flanks the opposition are already settled. It's always easier defending (individually and as a unit) when you're allowed to move sideways rather than having to track back.

Offline Zlen

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #225 on: January 28, 2017, 03:30:08 pm »
We've played badly I'm not arguing that but the idea that this squad and Klopp's reign / project is similar to the end of Rodgers days is what I'm pushing back against.
It's just a poor run of performances because our squad is too thin. We've all seen enough this season to know we have good players here and an extremely capable manager

I never said that - just saying that in execution and way the games are unfolding, these last several games absolutely feel like those gloomy sections of Brendan's reign. We're not even unlucky, or damaged by refs too often - we're just tired, slow and predictable.

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #226 on: January 28, 2017, 03:32:37 pm »
Klopp's tactics regarding park the bus teams rely entirely on one thing.

Wingers.

He said it from the start and our results with and without Mane our only wide player with pace and the ability to take players on illustrates it perfectly.

Look at the positions Woodburn and TAA have got into in the last few games and a quality winger would of had a field day.
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Offline Binomial

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #227 on: January 28, 2017, 03:36:58 pm »
The players don't look like they know what to do in possession....all stems from poor tactics set up by the manager.

Our only way to score at present in to go through 2 brick walls...because we can't score from crosses nor can we score from going direct as we have no pace.

Trying to find the net for this team is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

Quality of players on the pitch doesn't mean you'll always beat lesser opposition, it's 11 v 11 and without the right tactics....it's going to go pair shaped like we've had to endure the past month.
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Offline HeartAndSoul

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #228 on: January 28, 2017, 03:44:07 pm »
Because we are focusing on the league.

All about that top 4 trophy  :champ

Offline Red Bumpkin

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #229 on: January 28, 2017, 04:00:00 pm »
People need to take a breath.

Klopp has inherited a poor, thin squad .... with some very talented first team players in it.
It's very clear what he wants to do and what he wants to build.
We have the basis of a very very good group that we can probably keep intact this summer and we can build from there

If people are going to write him off at the first difficult patch (most of which is in the cups by the way) you probably need to lift your head
Stop talking sense will you.

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Offline Bolrick

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #230 on: January 28, 2017, 04:07:45 pm »
I wanted to post this on the pre-match thread.......but was pretty sure I would have been shot down for being negative.... But here goes.

It wouldn't be too bad if we are out of the FA cup..... because one game a week from now on is "up klopp's alley".

So we are out of the FA cup. Yeah, its no ideal. But at least Klopp can now focus on the league.

I really think we should do well from now on.

In the summer, klopp really should get a bigger squad and rotate the team more next season.

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Offline JG6

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #231 on: January 28, 2017, 05:21:00 pm »
When do we start to question the job he's doing?

Offline sms1986

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #232 on: January 28, 2017, 05:21:43 pm »
When do we start to question the job he's doing?

He's not even had a full season in charge yet.

Offline Giono

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #233 on: January 28, 2017, 05:23:28 pm »

tank empty, braindead, no inclination of any new faces as he is too loyal and close to the current players.

He has been here for a bit more than a season. He is establishing a team culture and a style of play this season. Last season was different in that we set our record for the number of different players that started for us as he identified the elements we were missing.

You criticise him  for loyalty now. Were you criticising him for loyalty earlier when we found out that Henderson could be effective as a deep midfielder, that Milner could be a decent wingback, that Lallana had end product in him from midfield?

In the short term opposition teams have realised that we are lacking a cutting edge from the wings without Mane and Coutinho. And that some of our midfield is not quick on the turn or quick to pass. And that we don't have great set piece threat without Coutinho. And that our defence without Matip (and Sakho) is vulnerable.

That won't last. Coutinho will be fit again soon. Mane will be back soon. Matip is back.

In the long term we now have the foundations for a very difficult team to play against. When we do sign more players next summer they will be joining a team rather than a collection of players.


Klopp is big-picture manager. His teams are projects.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 05:29:25 pm by Giono »
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Offline red mongoose

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #234 on: January 28, 2017, 05:26:25 pm »
AS OF THIS TIME, THERE WILL BE NO MORE EXCUSES FROM KLOPP.

You what now? Haha what a shockingly stupid post  :lmao
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Offline Giono

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #235 on: January 28, 2017, 05:27:51 pm »
This is a tactics thread!
'

It looks more like a twitter b*tchfest to me. We should have a rule that posts must be longer than 140 characters and be at least two complete sentences long.
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Offline pyroparty

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #236 on: January 28, 2017, 05:28:03 pm »
When do we start to question the job he's doing?

When he's doing a shit job? Which he isn't. Some of our fans are not equipped to handle bad form at all. Perhaps you should support Bayern or Floyd Mayweather.

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #237 on: January 28, 2017, 05:31:58 pm »
the only way to beat 11 men behind the ball is width and patience..we have seen in the last few weeks that teams have figured us out and we are very easy to  defend against.The lack of width is incredible,any half decent player or manager should be able to see the bloody obvious.If you drew a line from the e18yd box to the half way line then thats where we play 90% of our passes and thats so  easy to defend.We have no leader on the pitch who can control the game and the players around him,wed night was a prime example,hendo and can just headless thruout,no thought of calming it down,measuring the passes and getting it wide at pace to create some space behind the lines of defenders..Klopp had better come up with some game plan that will change the style or we are going nowhere.

Offline Iloveyoumamadou

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #238 on: January 28, 2017, 05:45:09 pm »
the only way to beat 11 men behind the ball is width and patience..we have seen in the last few weeks that teams have figured us out and we are very easy to  defend against.The lack of width is incredible,any half decent player or manager should be able to see the bloody obvious.If you drew a line from the e18yd box to the half way line then thats where we play 90% of our passes and thats so  easy to defend.We have no leader on the pitch who can control the game and the players around him,wed night was a prime example,hendo and can just headless thruout,no thought of calming it down,measuring the passes and getting it wide at pace to create some space behind the lines of defenders..Klopp had better come up with some game plan that will change the style or we are going nowhere.
Yep Woodburn and Firmino on the wings just compressed the play. It got a bit better in the second half when we switched to three at the back but we definitely need another wide player.

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #239 on: January 28, 2017, 05:49:15 pm »
When do we start to question the job he's doing?

You what?  :butt
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