Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[24/7]

If they do build that statue then they should put the words he used today on a plaque.

Ian Dunt
‏Verified account @IanDunt

Bercow looks with a harsh glare at the government front bench. "Part of the responsibility of the Speaker is to frankly to speak truth to power. I have always done that and no matter what I always will.

Belter of a line that. He's gone way up in my estimation and, I imagine, in many others' too - and for a short fellow, he'll doubtlessly welcome such elevation

[Zeb]

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/occasions/prorogation/

Effectively, it's the cabinet who decide it. Things to keep in mind though - it takes time to do and it's the 18th March. And it kills legislation which hasn't been completed before it happens. Which is pretty much everything needed to do Brexit. It's a route to 'no deal' Brexit without most of the legislation to even begin to support that outcome.

[Ghost Town]

Does she need a vote in the Commons for prorogation?

No, the Privy Council can advise the Queen to declare prorogation, even without the normal dissolving of Parliament. And once she has, it comes into effect after being a announced in both Houses.

But unless the EU allow an extension, I'm not sure there's time to prorogue and re-convene, before March 29th

[Ray K]

@sean_kemp
We now go live to John Bercow’s statement



 

[lamad]

Suck it up, losers

Indeed. Was No. 10 not aware of or had the arrogance of ignoring Erskine May (would not surprise me seeing how Maybot stubbornly refuses to acknowledge other facts) or did they simply assume Bercow would not have the balls?

[killer-heels]

According to David Allen Green, if the EU were to stand firm now and refuse any extension to the March 29 date (due to no substantial reason for it being adduced) then the only choices left would be No Deal or Revocation, and as the country is absolutely NOT prepared for the former...the latter suddenly enters the field like a massive fuck off end-of-level destroyer

Who decides that? Parliament or the cabinet (in ref to Zeb’s post)?

[Team Sleep]

Does Bercow's statement have any potential impact on amendments which have been put forward already?

[Red Beret]

According to David Allen Green, if the EU were to stand firm now and refuse any extension to the March 29 date (due to no substantial reason for it being adduced) then the only choices left would be No Deal or Revocation, and as the country is absolutely NOT prepared for the former...the latter suddenly enters the field like a massive fuck off end-of-level destroyer

So the lines are drawn? The Brexit Bunch now effectively have no option but to push for No Deal regardless of the chaos it will cause, and Remainers to call for revocation? There's no wait-and-see middle ground left on the matter now?

Bercow represents what all politicians should aspire to be.

[oldfordie]

Belter of a line that. He's gone way up in my estimation and, I imagine, in many others' too - and for a short fellow, he'll doubtlessly welcome such elevation

I don't think ive ever seen a MP come back with so many scathing replies when MPs try to throw s,, at him. wipes the floor with them regularly when most MPs would be lost for words. the perfect speaker we need to stand up to the ERG etc. he's a giant in my eyes 

[Ghost Town]

I LOL-ed 

David Allen Green
‏ @davidallengreen
7m7 minutes ago

May vs May result

Erskine May 1, Theresa May 0.

8 replies . 51 retweets 172 likes
Show this thread

[ShakaHislop]

Where does this leave the Kyle/Wilson amendment?

Hopefully May is convinced to add it to the overall package of her deal, possibly making it "substantially different" in order to put back to the Commons.

[Zeb]

Does Bercow's statement have any potential impact on amendments which have been put forward already?

Bercow seemed to be saying 'no' because their context changes with the motion they're amending being changed.

[Ghost Town]

A great day for Parliament and the much needed roasting of a government which thinks it can ride roughshot over everyone and everything.

But things aren't over, I suspect. Plenty more twists and turns to come. For example, an altered Political Declaration might be deemed enough of an alteration to allow presentation MV3 again; it's up to Bercow to decide.

They key issue is extension. If the EU were to say in the next day or so that NO extension will be available then that might finally focus everyone's minds on the cliff edge, and everyone's true intentions will have to come to the fore. Hard Brexiters will opt for No Deal, certainly. The rest, though...the rest would surely opt for revocation, rather than catastophe. They'd have a perfect excuse to throw towards their Leaver constituents.

But as I say, more twists to come. May is the Terminator; I can't see her giving up, she'll just keep coming, relentlessly, unless/until she and her shitty deal are lowered into the steel.

[ShakaHislop]

A great day for Parliament and the much needed roasting of a government which thinks it can ride roughshot over everyone and everything.

But things aren't over, I suspect. Plenty more twists and turns to come. For example, an altered Political Declaration might be deemed enough of an alteration to allow presentation MV3 again; it's up to Bercow to decide.

They key issue is extension. If the EU were to say in the next day or so that NO extension will be available then that might finally focus everyone's minds on the cliff edge, and everyone's true intentions will have to come to the fore. Hard Brexiters will opt for No Deal, certainly. The rest, though...the rest would surely opt for revocation, rather than catastophe. They'd have a perfect excuse to throw towards their Leaver constituents.

But as I say, more twists to come. May is the Terminator; I can't see her giving up, she'll just keep coming, relentlessly, unless/until she and her shitty deal are lowered into the steel.

Altered in what way? More in a soft Brexit direction? That wouldn't win more ERG votes and might even lose some of the few she's managed to pick up for MV2 and since. Apparently David Davis, who voted for the deal last time, was suggesting this morning he may have voted against it in MV3.

[rafathegaffa83]

Again, why has the UK not had a Mueller style enquiry over the referendum. This is an excellent, disturbing long read
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/03/25/the-chaotic-triumph-of-arron-banks-the-bad-boy-of-brexit

[killer-heels]

Wht if they go for No Deal?

[Ghost Town]

Amended in what way? More in a soft Brexit direction? That wouldn't win more ERG votes and might even lose some of the few she's managed to pick up for MV2 and since. Apparently David Davis, who voted for the deal last time, was suggesting this morning he may have voted against it in MV3.

Sure, I agree. It depends on:

1. Whether the Gov can even get any substantial amendments to the PD, with the EU in such an intransigent mood

2. Then whether any changes are in the direction of a softer Brexit, or whether they can pull a harder amendment out of the ether somehow - not sure what, but while they are a bunch of morons these clowns do have a kind of low cunning, and top notch advice, so I don't trust them not to pull something out of the bag.

3. Then whether the Speaker would deem a PD change as qualifying; after all, technically, the PD only comes into play after the WA, rather than being an integral part of it..

4. And if so, then whether the Speaker sees any alteration as an acceptable and substantial enough change to allow MV3 to be presented again

5. And IF he allows it we'd then have to see if any new changes mean that MPs try to amend the living hell out of it

6. And then which amendments the Speaker would select to be moved.

7. And then, finally, how that changes voting intentions among MPs; as you say a softer PD would lose Brexiter votes; a harder PD might lose Remainer votes. And what the actual fuck Corbyn and Labour might do is anyone's guess.

Interesting times...

[So… Howard Philips]

Belter of a line that. He's gone way up in my estimation and, I imagine, in many others' too - and for a short fellow, he'll doubtlessly welcome such elevation

Half Man John Bercow, the Tyrion Lannister of the Commons.

[killer-heels]

Rory Stewart has ‘attacked’ Bercow by calling him Humpty Dumpty. Burn.

[Zeb]

Wht if they go for No Deal?

Need a stable majority to pass the legislation to allow for it. Institute for Government has a list of what needs to be done. To allow it to happen for fear of revoking Article 50, knowing the consequences of failing to prepare even to what has been already set as the minimum, is the harder question May refuses to answer.

[ShakaHislop]

Rory Stewart has ‘attacked’ Bercow by calling him Humpty Dumpty. Burn.

Did he also make up another statistic as to how many of the public disagree with Bercow's decision?

[Ghost Town]

Never understood the good press Rory Stewert gets. Seems to speak a lot of lightweight nonsense, and presents set-up narratives as if they are uncontested fact. But I guess he does it in a charming, articulate, posh voice, without shouting or declaiming, and apologises when he gets caught making things up.

And we Brits are suckers for that

#forelocktugginggene

[killer-heels]

How quickly could the commons put forward a vote changing the rules over a repeat vote?

[Kekule]

Solicitor General Robert Buckland

“We are in a major constitutional crisis here.

There are ways around this - a prorogation of parliament and a new session. We are talking about hours to March 29. Frankly we could have done without this.

Now we have this ruling to deal with, it is clearly going to require a lot of very fast but very deep thought in the hours ahead.”

Maybe you and your colleagues should have fucking thought about that instead of letting someone piss about delaying votes and trying to renegotiate something the EU said wasn’t open for renegotiating. 

[killer-heels]

The best result would be Theresa May suffering a massive panic attack and Olly Robbins sending a letter revoking Article 50.

[Zeb]

How quickly could the commons put forward a vote changing the rules over a repeat vote?

Any day the government want to starting from tomorrow.

[mkingdon]

How quickly could the commons put forward a vote changing the rules over a repeat vote?

Needs a majority doesn't it? Not sure one exists for that, as those who don't want her deal will gladly stop another vote on it?

[killer-heels]

Any day the government want to starting from tomorrow.

Thats definitely happening then. Will be interesting to see who would vote for that with all the long term ramifications.

Also a question about that politically.

[killer-heels]

Needs a majority doesn't it? Not sure one exists for that, as those who don't want her deal will gladly stop another vote on it?

I wouldnt be so sure. I imagine they will be doing the political calculations of that right now.

[Dr. Beaker]

This is what happens when you start fucking about by the corner flag when you are five nil down.

[Zeb]

Thats definitely happening then. Will be interesting to see who would vote for that with all the long term ramifications.

Also a question about that politically.

Would need substantial part of opposition to at least abstain to pass. ERG were like dogs with two tails about Bercow's decision.

[Ghost Town]

Thats definitely happening then. Will be interesting to see who would vote for that with all the long term ramifications.

Also a question about that politically.

It's possible but I would not say definitely happening. Even this bunch of knuckleheads might think twice about abandoning a Parliamentary 'rule' that has existed since 1604, and been reconfirmed many times, and is genuinely benefical most of the time

Prorogation might be more likely, if time allows

[Red Beret]

Seems to me that this now lies in the hands of the Shy Remainers in Parliament, and the "Brexit but not at any price" lot.

Either they get behind No Deal, regardless of their persuasion, or they revoke A50.  There just isn't the time to renegotiate; and it's hard to see what could be substantially different from what has already been rejected twice.

So with the situation as plain as this, let's see how that shower in the House manage to fuck things up.

[TepidT2O]

Prorogation? Prior to being rogered?

They won’t be able to organise that in time.

Seems a 2 or possibly 5 year extension to article 50 are the likely offers by the EU.

We will surely now get a new PM though. There are really quite a lot of talented MPs in the main parties. Let’s not have the counts who are currently influencing affairs

[Kekule]

The best result would be Theresa May suffering a massive panic attack and Olly Robbins sending a letter revoking Article 50.

He’ll be pleased. Rumours this morning were that number 10 were about to throw him out the window to appease the Tory hard Brexiters and get them to vote for the deal.

I bet it’s not in the least bit awkward now!

[Machae]

Is the March to remain taking place this week? See you all there

[Riquende]

MPs like Paterson cock-a-hoop at this, claiming on the BBC that the EU now have to look at agreeing to Malthouse B.

That would be the Malthouse B that essentially takes all the 'good for UK' bits of the deal and strips away everything else including the backstop (by aping it but with a set end date).

There's been nothing remotely feasible from leavers. Just "well the PM now needs to go to Brussels and get everything we want" for months now.

*edit - noticed that he ducked the "where does this leave May in terms of being PM" question at the end, blaming a bad line

[TepidT2O]

Isn’t Malthouse B a nuclear reactor?

[Riquende]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is whether, should an extension be granted and taken up, we become subject to those new tax-avoidance laws that prompted a lot of Leave support amongst the super-rich?

[Ghost Town]

Isn’t Malthouse B a nuclear reactor?

Sounds more like a second-rate whiskey