Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1447166 times)

Offline Zeb

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Guys
What are benn and Powell amendments?
Thx

Benn's amendment = MPs take control of parliament's business from next Wednesday and get to debate what they want to do. Also forces the government to extend Article 50.
Powell's amendment = Extension of Article 50 from Benn's amendment won't go past end of June. (So no referendum possible unless parliament has a big rethink about that time limit inbetween taking control and early April.)
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline ShakaHislop

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Guys
What are benn and Powell amendments?
Thx

Quote
Line 4, leave out from “Article 50 (3)” to end and add:

“to enable the House of Commons to find a way forward that can command majority
support;

2.  orders accordingly that on Wednesday 20 March –

(a) Standing Order No. 14(1) (which provides that government business shall
have precedence at every sitting save as provided in that order) shall not apply;

(b) precedence shall be given to the motion specified in paragraph 3;

(c)  the Speaker shall interrupt proceedings on any business before the motion
specified in paragraph 3 at 1.30 pm and call a Member to move that motion;

(d) debate on that motion may continue until 7.00 pm at which time the
Speaker shall put the questions necessary to dispose of proceedings on that
motion including the questions on amendments selected by the Speaker which
may then be moved;

(e) any proceedings interrupted or superseded by this order may be resumed
or (as the case may be) entered upon and proceeded with after the moment of
interruption; and

3.  the motion specified in this paragraph is a motion in the name of at least 25
Members, including at least five Members elected to the House as members of at least
five different parties, relating to the Business of the House on a future day or days
in connection with matters relating to the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the
European Union.

**As an amendment to Hilary Benn’s amendment (i)
Lucy Powell
Seema Malhotra
Robert Halfon
Line 2, at beginning insert “for a period ending on 30 June 2019”.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmagenda/ManuscriptAmdtsv3.pdf

Offline Zeb

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Unless the second referendumers play hard ball, and withhold Commons support for any soft Brexit type deal unless it's put to the people in a confirmatory referendum. Keep doing that until June 30th, then the Common Market 2.0 crowd have a choice between leaving with no deal, or begging the EU for even more time for to hold such a referendum

Or pass May's 'deal' and hope to soften during negotiations for future relationship. Which is May's bet. Bryant's amendment passing, as you said earlier today, would be pretty huge. (Bryant's amendment = May can't keep taking her 'deal' to Parliament unless she makes significant changes to it)

edit: 30 odd pre-referendum Labour MPs have released a statement on why they're abstaining on voting for a referendum tonight: https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1106240295698644992

Urgh.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 05:09:42 pm by Zeb »
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Offline IgorBobbins

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One thing I still can't get my head around is why so many people....literally millions of people....hold such hatred for Europe and the EU.  I can kind of understand why people like Mogg & Hartley-Brewer are so desperate to leave, because they stand to gain financially and will become even richer.  But why does the man in the street have such passionate views?  I bet before the referendum many of them were completely oblivious and ignorant to our relationship with the EU (one could argue they still are).  Why do they now think it's such an evil thing that we MUST leave, and if we don't there will be violence on the streets?  I just don't get it.

Online TheShanklyGates

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Or pass May's 'deal' and hope to soften during negotiations for future relationship. Which is May's bet. Bryant's amendment passing, as you said earlier today, would be pretty huge. (Bryant's amendment = May can't keep taking her 'deal' to Parliament unless she makes significant changes to it)

edit: 30 odd pre-referendum Labour MPs have released a statement on why they're abstaining on voting for a referendum tonight: https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1106240295698644992

Urgh.

What an absolute mess. It's embarrassing to see the official 'opposition' sat in their seats doing nothing instead of opposing and it's ridiculous that TIG, SNP etc. have put this to a vote when it was clear it wouldn't win.

Shameful. Absolutely shameful.
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I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline ShakaHislop

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Or pass May's 'deal' and hope to soften during negotiations for future relationship. Which is May's bet. Bryant's amendment passing, as you said earlier today, would be pretty huge. (Bryant's amendment = May can't keep taking her 'deal' to Parliament unless she makes significant changes to it)

edit: 30 odd pre-referendum Labour MPs have released a statement on why they're abstaining on voting for a referendum tonight: https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1106240295698644992

Urgh.

Interesting to see Seema Malhotra on that list, when she's one of the signatories to the Powell amendment.

If the Bryant amendment passes, I wonder if pro-EU MPs could offer to let the PM bring back her deal after all providing she agrees to government support for the Kyle-Wilson amendment?

Offline BoRed

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edit: 30 odd pre-referendum Labour MPs have released a statement on why they're abstaining on voting for a referendum tonight: https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1106240295698644992

Urgh.

It's a perfectly sensible statement. Not a Corbynite among them either. This was a gimmick from the TIG, they're more likely to put people off than recruit new defectors. It would have made some sense if an election was coming soon, but not now.

Offline Trada

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The most telling thing is even if Labour had voted for it, the vote would had still been lost.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline Red-Soldier

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I'm amazed the speaker didn't go with this:

G. The Chope amendment

Tabled by Conservative Brexiter and regular malcontent Christopher Chope – and signed only by him – it said Brexit should be delayed for two months “for the specific purpose of replacing the UK negotiating team”.

 ;D

Online TheShanklyGates

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The most telling thing is even if Labour had voted for it, the vote would had still been lost.

At least try a little harder to hide your glee.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline ShakaHislop

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The most telling thing is even if Labour had voted for it, the vote would had still been lost.

As was the vote on Labour's Brexit plan, the plan it is still pursuing.

Offline Djimothy

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Or pass May's 'deal' and hope to soften during negotiations for future relationship. Which is May's bet. Bryant's amendment passing, as you said earlier today, would be pretty huge. (Bryant's amendment = May can't keep taking her 'deal' to Parliament unless she makes significant changes to it)

edit: 30 odd pre-referendum Labour MPs have released a statement on why they're abstaining on voting for a referendum tonight: https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1106240295698644992

Urgh.
The people running the campaign for a second referendum advised them to.

Offline Trada

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At least try a little harder to hide your glee.

No the vote was totally at the wrong time, I feel sorry for the people that campaigned for the PV only to have it hijacked by the TINGe group at the last moment.

Im totally fine with a people vote if its the right questions, mind you I would want a GE first.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline Zeb

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It's a perfectly sensible statement. Not a Corbynite among them either. This was a gimmick from the TIG, they're more likely to put people off than recruit new defectors. It would have made some sense if an election was coming soon, but not now.

It's not really a gimmick to anyone who isn't obliged to invest in the success of Corbyn's alternative Brexit plan though? Can hardly complain if Nats., TIG, Greens, and Lib Dems are all now turning round and using Labour as a pinata dispensing remain voters when Labour's position for the past two years has been driven by the politics of this.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Online TheShanklyGates

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Good to see the Powell amendment to Benn's amendment fail.

Hopefully Benn will now pass.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline BoRed

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It's not really a gimmick to anyone who isn't obliged to invest in the success of Corbyn's alternative Brexit plan though?

How do the People's Vote campaing, the Best for Britain campaign, and Alastair Campbell fit into that?

Out of interest, what kind of referendum would you like to have? If it's straight remain/leave like the last time, we'll get another unicorn campaing from the leave side, and no one will know what to do if they win. It has to be some sort of concrete leave deal v remain, so the softer the deal the better. It might even lead to hard Brexiters not voting at all.

Offline Zeb

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How do the People's Vote campaing, the Best for Britain campaign, and Alastair Campbell fit into that?

You'd have to ask them. I think they're on twitter.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline ShakaHislop

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No the vote was totally at the wrong time, I feel sorry for the people that campaigned for the PV only to have it hijacked by the TINGe group at the last moment.

Im totally fine with a people vote if its the right questions, mind you I would want a GE first.

Isn't it the wrong time for a GE for Labour. considering where you are in the polls?

Even if you rise in the polls over the course of a campaign, that happened last time yet you still lost.

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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At least try a little harder to hide your glee.


Shut up Blairite,he doesn't care what you think.
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Online TheShanklyGates

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Bloody hell, the BBC actually found someone on one of their ridiculous vox pops who said 'I don't know, I'm not sufficiently knowledgable about this'.

If only more people took that approach we wouldn't be in this mess.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline 24/7

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Chope is only one letter away from Choke. Just sayin one day it might happen...


Oh and a 3 vote margin to boot out June 30? Looks like most MPs are in the Tusk camp :thumbup

Online TheShanklyGates

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Second ref can't and won't happen unless these twats can somehow be made to change their mind.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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No the vote was totally at the wrong time, I feel sorry for the people that campaigned for the PV only to have it hijacked by the TINGe group at the last moment.

Im totally fine with a people vote if its the right questions, mind you I would want a GE first.


Totally fine he says,you're lost to the cult.If you weren't then you would see just how fucking stupid and how catastrophic for the Labour Party a GE at this time,with that leader would be.


And you have some fucking nerve talking about hijacking after what the likes of you have done to the Labour Party.
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Offline FlashingBlade

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Bloody hell, the BBC actually found someone on one of their ridiculous vox pops who said 'I don't know, I'm not sufficiently knowledgable about this'.

If only more people took that approach we wouldn't be in this mess.

First Vox pop to talk honest sense in two years.

It's compulsive TV....it's fucking bizzar...like watching a car crash...but all drivers reverse back...and drive in again.

Online TheShanklyGates

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Benn fails by 2 votes.

Complete and utter deadlock in the commons.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline cdav

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Benn amendment defeated by 2 votes- what is the plan now?

Try May's deal every hour until people lose the will to live and it passes?

Offline BoRed

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Shut up Blairite,he doesn't care what you think.

Ironically, Blairites are on the same page as Corbyn today. As are all the second referendum campaigns. Why not acknowledge that Labour are doing the right thing for once. While the TIG are alienating the very people they should be wooing.

Offline losCHUNK

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That's a brick wall again, innit?

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Shambles.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Second ref can't and won't happen unless these twats can somehow be made to change their mind.

Russell-Moyle being a prick. He was on those list of MPs that said they were abstaining.

Online TheShanklyGates

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That's a brick wall again, innit?

Yup.

Absolutely no way forward now.

Hopefully Bryant's amendment succeeds to stop May just putting her deal again and again.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline BoRed

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Russell-Moyle being a prick. He was on those list of MPs that said they were abstaining.

He voted both for and against, it's a way to formally register an abstention.

Offline Ghost Town

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One thing I still can't get my head around is why so many people....literally millions of people....hold such hatred for Europe and the EU.  I can kind of understand why people like Mogg & Hartley-Brewer are so desperate to leave, because they stand to gain financially and will become even richer.  But why does the man in the street have such passionate views?  I bet before the referendum many of them were completely oblivious and ignorant to our relationship with the EU (one could argue they still are).  Why do they now think it's such an evil thing that we MUST leave, and if we don't there will be violence on the streets?  I just don't get it.
Ok I'll take this. Essay incoming:

Here's my assessment. The global downturn, doubled down with austerity has fucked up millions of people's lives and futures. And I mean really, really fucked up. I can tell you some stories that would make you weep, except that you could probably tell me equally awful ones back, and we'd just cry at each other, so let's not go there now.

Everyone with a functioning brain knows that austerity doesn't work. But because too many Britons have a dominant gene for deference, servility and forelock-tugging whenever posh twats tell them something, too many people - including most Labour politicians, to their shame - believed Gideon and the pig fucker and enabled the wholesale battering and scouring of a nation.

So...what's that got to do with Brexit and the EU-hate? Thing is until the refernedum, there was literally no hope; no way out of the misery we were mired in. Those most affected assumed that this was it; there would never be good times again. The die had been cast; the rubicon had been crossed - and it wasn't even mango-flavoured.

And then the referendum farrago - or should that be Frottage? - started and suddenly there was a chink of light; a tiny vestige of hope that all blame could be put on the EU and immigration and Britain's 'lack of soverignty' and 'lack of control'.

Suddenly it wasn't the cruelty of the very rich which was to blame - something that has been with humankind since day one and is to all intents and purposes unassailable - but rather a more managable set of causes which, crucially, something could be done about. After all, that's what the media are telling us, right? And man of the people Nigel Frottage?

And so those near-dead and drowning people, disadvantaged by a lack of education or a paucity of previous interest in politics and processes, grabbed onto that lifeline with both hands and a fear-induced clutch mechanism that means they will NOT let go. This is their only hope. Brexit HAS to happen, because Brexit is the ONLY way out of hell. No amount of facts or truths or reality will ever surmount the vicissitudes of a last, final, breathless, desperate hope.

And the irony is that it's the very same cruel rich who caused these problems and compunded them with austerity, that have now thrown us this bone. So they can sit back and laugh at us.

Like they have always done.
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Offline Wabaloolah

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Why is she pushing for a 3rd vote? Even with ERG and DUP on her side she would still need a hell of a lot more people to change their mind again. She will again be defeated. It’s a joke it’s even allowed while a 2nd referendum is made out to be some undemocratic bombshell that will tear the country apart. 
Not really 68 in the DRG, 10 DUP probably gives her enough to get it over the line!
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline [new username under construction]

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Good this country innit

Offline losCHUNK

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Yup.

Absolutely no way forward now.

Hopefully Bryant's amendment succeeds to stop May just putting her deal again and again.

Well that things getting thrashed by 100+ votes, surely the one that lost by 2 deserves another outing (not that this is how things should go :o)

Not really 68 in the DRG, 10 DUP probably gives her enough to get it over the line!

What's the chances of that, though?.  I can't see how the DUP could side with Mays deal.

Offline ScandinavianPete

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I think you Brits are on to something. In many  parliamentary buildings the members have buttons next to their seats for easy voting. With your system you must get 70-80% fewer decisions just from queing in the lobby. And that has to be a good thing in the end.

Offline Wabaloolah

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It seems like they don't want to find a consensus of MPs for a way forward with the defeat of the Benn amendment, it's May's deal or no Brexit it seems

Has the Bryant amendment been voted on yet?
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline Wabaloolah

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Well that things getting thrashed by 100+ votes, surely the one that lost by 2 deserves another outing (not that this is how things should go :o)

What's the chances of that, though?.  I can't see how the DUP could side with Mays deal.
There were rumours earlier today that they were softening and edging towards backing the May deal
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Offline Ghost Town

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So what's the next vote?

And what's the main vote tonight? I'm losing track
"Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it."
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