Author Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread  (Read 12264034 times)

Offline Chris~

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99520 on: April 26, 2019, 10:09:30 pm »
A big caveat in that I don’t know this kid but I really hate this kind of thinking. If he’s good enough he’ll get a chance regardless of his size. Masch was never a big guy but did ok in midfield. There’s a lot of examples in world football that disprove that you need to be big physically to succeed. I mean, look at the size of Naby Keita. He seems to do ok too.
I never said you need to be big to succeed, but if you're an undersized passing playmaker how many sides in England give you that break through?Masch and Keita are two different types of players to Clarkson, if he had a style like them id say he had a better chance, but it'd still be very hard for him.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99521 on: April 28, 2019, 10:18:23 am »
U23s are live on lfctv this afternoon for their last game of the season against Blackburn.

Starts at 3.30 with ko at 4pm.

We've nothing really to play for with the Bitters topping the league but a win will see us go above Arsenal into 2nd with only Brighton being able to go above us if they beat Chelsea on 3rd May.

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Offline Thepooloflife

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99522 on: April 28, 2019, 12:54:17 pm »
I think he'll struggle to make it at a top team. I really like him as a player, but the physical disadvantages he has at youth football will be amplified at senior level. And there are very few senior sides who play someone of his stature and style at the base of midfield in England. Hard to imagine a lower league side putting faith in him to have a run to try and adapt to it either if hes loaned out. Think he should looking at somewhere like Holland to try and make a breakthrough.
I don't agree with this analysis. As someone has pointed out already, there are examples of small midfielders who've made it - why should Clarkson be different ? The bold bit above doesn't seem to have hampered him up to now despite there being some big physical lads in that league - and Barry Lewtas and the coaches rate him highly. The lad's only 17.....let's see how he develops football wise and physically over the next couple of years.

Offline Chris~

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99523 on: April 28, 2019, 02:29:57 pm »
I don't agree with this analysis. As someone has pointed out already, there are examples of small midfielders who've made it - why should Clarkson be different ? The bold bit above doesn't seem to have hampered him up to now despite there being some big physical lads in that league - and Barry Lewtas and the coaches rate him highly. The lad's only 17.....let's see how he develops football wise and physically over the next couple of years.
There's also loads of examples of players who cant cope with the physicality of English football. And again I'm not saying he cant make it at all. But look through English football and how many players of his stature/athleticism and style are starting at the base of a teams midfield regularly?

The step up from playing with 15-18 year olds and full grown men every week is massive.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 02:32:42 pm by Chris~ »

Offline dakid

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99524 on: April 28, 2019, 03:35:39 pm »
There's also loads of examples of players who cant cope with the physicality of English football. And again I'm not saying he cant make it at all. But look through English football and how many players of his stature/athleticism and style are starting at the base of a teams midfield regularly?

The step up from playing with 15-18 year olds and full grown men every week is massive.
Not just that but how many have even come through top English academies I can name any.

Mascherano was mentioned earlier but he was a senior and international player when he came to West Ham and he wasn't even being selected because they didn't play him because of this size.


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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99525 on: April 28, 2019, 03:48:13 pm »
Speaking of size any idea what ever happened to to Dal Varesanovic? He was supposed to have got his international clerence last August and he is showing on the club website so no reason he shouldn't be available bar a serious injury?


Offline RogerTheRed

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99526 on: April 28, 2019, 05:17:21 pm »
23s losing 2-0 so far
Come On You Mighty Scouse Reds!!

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99527 on: April 28, 2019, 05:43:11 pm »
Can see quite a few of these U23s moved on this Summer. Not including the first squad players in this in which a good 4/5 will be off.

At a guess none of these will have a future here: Bogdan, Karius, Markovic, Kent, Wilson, Ojo, Grujic, Ejaria, Woodburn, Allan, Ward, Awoniyi, Chirivella, Randall, Kane.

(Sturridge, Mignolet, Moreno, Origi, Ings, Clyne)

Few quid in that lot but who is going to step up like TAA and Gomez into the First Team Squad?
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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99528 on: April 28, 2019, 05:58:53 pm »
Finished 2-1
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Sarge

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99529 on: April 28, 2019, 06:13:44 pm »
Y.N.W.A.

Offline Maldini

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99530 on: April 28, 2019, 06:42:56 pm »
Interesting to see Anthony Driscoll-Glennon on the bench for Burnley against City this afternoon, he never looked close to a PL player for us but just shows how much of a difference a different environment and coaching staff can make to a player's progress.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99531 on: April 28, 2019, 07:04:18 pm »
Can see quite a few of these U23s moved on this Summer. Not including the first squad players in this in which a good 4/5 will be off.

At a guess none of these will have a future here: Bogdan, Karius, Markovic, Kent, Wilson, Ojo, Grujic, Ejaria, Woodburn, Allan, Ward, Awoniyi, Chirivella, Randall, Kane.

(Sturridge, Mignolet, Moreno, Origi, Ings, Clyne)

Few quid in that lot but who is going to step up like TAA and Gomez into the First Team Squad?

already weaving his magic at Fulham

Offline HopefulRed

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99532 on: April 28, 2019, 10:51:05 pm »
Can see quite a few of these U23s moved on this Summer. Not including the first squad players in this in which a good 4/5 will be off.

At a guess none of these will have a future here: Bogdan, Karius, Markovic, Kent, Wilson, Ojo, Grujic, Ejaria, Woodburn, Allan, Ward, Awoniyi, Chirivella, Randall, Kane.

(Sturridge, Mignolet, Moreno, Origi, Ings, Clyne)

Few quid in that lot but who is going to step up like TAA and Gomez into the First Team Squad?

Sold to Leicester last Summer.   The Echo still reckons Klopp has hopes for Grujic.  Woodburn needs another go at a loan.  Kane has done well in League 1 and could do with a loan to a Championship next time around to increase his value. 

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99533 on: April 28, 2019, 11:01:05 pm »
Interesting to see Anthony Driscoll-Glennon on the bench for Burnley against City this afternoon, he never looked close to a PL player for us but just shows how much of a difference a different environment and coaching staff can make to a player's progress.

Noticed this too, I was surprised we let him leave for Burnley cause I thought he looked pretty good, but I didn’t really think I’d see him in their PL-squad, maybe lots of injuries?

Offline HopefulRed

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99534 on: April 28, 2019, 11:04:44 pm »
Interesting to see Anthony Driscoll-Glennon on the bench for Burnley against City this afternoon, he never looked close to a PL player for us but just shows how much of a difference a different environment and coaching staff can make to a player's progress.

This.  So true.  Really unless you are really exceptionally standout it seems better to get out early and try and work your way up elsewhere.  Lewis Travis didn’t play much in our U18s but now played 20 plus games for Blackburn in the championship at 21.  Look how many players we have including at CB who if they went out on loan now would find it difficult to get a mid table championship side, like Johnston, Masterson, Whelan, not to mention Nat Phillips, who has missed much of the season with injury but is behind 4 other CBs, and with Hoever another potential, albeit someway off.  Branagan hang around while he was rated but ended up with Oxford in League 1.  Sadly the opportunities for academy players at Liverpool is getting more difficult than before now  every point is so critical.  Probably harder for an academy player to get minutes with us than any other top 6 team now.  Think Brewster will get some chances next year but it’s difficult to see many, if any, others.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99535 on: April 28, 2019, 11:20:36 pm »
This.  So true.  Really unless you are really exceptionally standout it seems better to get out early and try and work your way up elsewhere.  Lewis Travis didn’t play much in our U18s but now played 20 plus games for Blackburn in the championship at 21.  Look how many players we have including at CB who if they went out on loan now would find it difficult to get a mid table championship side, like Johnston, Masterson, Whelan, not to mention Nat Phillips, who has missed much of the season with injury but is behind 4 other CBs, and with Hoever another potential, albeit someway off.  Branagan hang around while he was rated but ended up with Oxford in League 1.  Sadly the opportunities for academy players at Liverpool is getting more difficult than before now  every point is so critical.  Probably harder for an academy player to get minutes with us than any other top 6 team now.  Think Brewster will get some chances next year but it’s difficult to see many, if any, others.

City is definitely harder than us but would agree. We cant afford to take risk with Youth at this point, people always say how Klopp brought youth through regularly at Dortmund but he also didnt have near the budget that Liverpool had so had to work more with the youths. Not saying he doesnt want to bring youth through but you need to be elite level prospect to get a chance now.

Only players i see getting a chance next year are Brewster and Hoever. Think Hoever will get some back-up RB minutes when needed and some cup games. Brewster will be 3rd choice Striker next year with Sturridge and possibly Origi leaving and my guess is a versatile front line player will come in to rotate with the big 3 with Brewster getting minutes behind them.



Sold -

Wilson, Ojo, Ejaria, Kent, Awoniyi, Allan, Camacho

Loan -

Woodburn, Jones, Kane

Unknown -

Grujic

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99536 on: April 29, 2019, 12:30:03 am »
City is definitely harder than us but would agree. We cant afford to take risk with Youth at this point, people always say how Klopp brought youth through regularly at Dortmund but he also didnt have near the budget that Liverpool had so had to work more with the youths. Not saying he doesnt want to bring youth through but you need to be elite level prospect to get a chance now.

Only players i see getting a chance next year are Brewster and Hoever. Think Hoever will get some back-up RB minutes when needed and some cup games. Brewster will be 3rd choice Striker next year with Sturridge and possibly Origi leaving and my guess is a versatile front line player will come in to rotate with the big 3 with Brewster getting minutes behind them.



Sold -

Wilson, Ojo, Ejaria, Kent, Awoniyi, Allan, Camacho

Loan -

Woodburn, Jones, Kane

Unknown -

Grujic

Only things I don't agree with you are Wilson getting sold and Hoever getting backup rb minutes.  I think Wilson will get a loan to a prem club next year and the only minutes that Hoever will get are early cup round games at CB.  I think we'll stick with Trent and Gomez for the RB position next year with Milner as emergency/3rd choice.  I do think Brewster will get opportunities as Sturridge is clearly leaving. 

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99537 on: April 29, 2019, 01:48:30 pm »
Sold to Leicester last Summer.   The Echo still reckons Klopp has hopes for Grujic.  Woodburn needs another go at a loan.  Kane has done well in League 1 and could do with a loan to a Championship next time around to increase his value. 

i wonder if woodburn is quick enough to play in a klopp MF?

if we're looking at aouar to play as that MF that links with attack i'd say ben's days are numbered as houssem just a year older.

sell him in the summer if we can't get him a decent shop window loan to push his value up?

same with grujic.  i like the look of him but it would be mental to turn down £35m from Atletico.

that would pay - for example - rabiot signing on fee and a big chunk of his wages.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99538 on: April 29, 2019, 01:49:48 pm »
Only things I don't agree with you are Wilson getting sold and Hoever getting backup rb minutes.  I think Wilson will get a loan to a prem club next year and the only minutes that Hoever will get are early cup round games at CB.  I think we'll stick with Trent and Gomez for the RB position next year with Milner as emergency/3rd choice.  I do think Brewster will get opportunities as Sturridge is clearly leaving. 

wilson will need a prem loan. more shop window action.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99539 on: April 29, 2019, 06:47:29 pm »
Only things I don't agree with you are Wilson getting sold and Hoever getting backup rb minutes.  I think Wilson will get a loan to a prem club next year and the only minutes that Hoever will get are early cup round games at CB.  I think we'll stick with Trent and Gomez for the RB position next year with Milner as emergency/3rd choice.  I do think Brewster will get opportunities as Sturridge is clearly leaving.

Think Hoever will get RB minutes in the cups and I honestly can see Milner leaving this season if Leeds come up and we only have a year left on his contract and could make 10mill from him. Gomez will be 2nd choice CB but yes I think he will shift to RB if Trent cant play and Matip will step in CB but I think hoever will get some decent games this year. Think they rate him very highly at the Academy.

I also think Wilson will get sold because hes 22 and his price is the highest it will ever be. Think we can sell for 20-25m and insert a buy back of 30-35m if he turns into something amazing which I dont see happening. We did the same thing with Ibe when we sold for 15min and pretty sure had a Buy Back clause inserted.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99540 on: April 29, 2019, 09:26:21 pm »
Think Hoever will get RB minutes in the cups and I honestly can see Milner leaving this season if Leeds come up and we only have a year left on his contract and could make 10mill from him. Gomez will be 2nd choice CB but yes I think he will shift to RB if Trent cant play and Matip will step in CB but I think hoever will get some decent games this year. Think they rate him very highly at the Academy.

I also think Wilson will get sold because hes 22 and his price is the highest it will ever be. Think we can sell for 20-25m and insert a buy back of 30-35m if he turns into something amazing which I dont see happening. We did the same thing with Ibe when we sold for 15min and pretty sure had a Buy Back clause inserted.

Not a hope in hell we will get that for Wilson, of all the players leaving discarding the Squad players I think we can get a good 40/50m for them.
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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99541 on: April 30, 2019, 12:22:44 pm »


Definitely something to be improved upon

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99542 on: April 30, 2019, 12:27:44 pm »


Definitely something to be improved upon

Real Madrid United and Barcelona in the top 10 and very few of these youngsters are actually top class. Saying that is much  harder to do though when you’re going for a 100 point season in  very a competitive league

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99543 on: April 30, 2019, 12:32:18 pm »


Definitely something to be improved upon

Surely the idea is to bring through genuinely top class players, the likes of TAA, who can be a starter in a side going for CL and PL titles, rather than players like who are in the United or Spurs side who wouldn’t get near our team.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99544 on: April 30, 2019, 12:34:55 pm »


Definitely something to be improved upon

Good to see Man City's £200m academy investment paying off.
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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99545 on: April 30, 2019, 12:37:39 pm »
Surely the idea is to bring through genuinely top class players, the likes of TAA, who can be a starter in a side going for CL and PL titles, rather than players like who are in the United or Spurs side who wouldn’t get near our team.

Harry Winks for example would do pretty well in our team, as would Rashford both aren’t the level of TAA which is the very very top level, but of course they could still contribute.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99546 on: April 30, 2019, 12:44:24 pm »
Harry Winks for example would do pretty well in our team, as would Rashford both aren’t the level of TAA which is the very very top level, but of course they could still contribute.

The little I’ve seen of Winks I’m not sure he’s better than any of our midfielders.

As for Rashford, he’s massively overrated.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99547 on: April 30, 2019, 01:49:09 pm »
Who's gonna pay us the £20m+ that Wilson is gonna cost? He'll probably do a Prem loan, if a suitable one can be arranged, after being with us for some of pre-season.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99548 on: April 30, 2019, 01:51:24 pm »
If we get one lad into our squad every two years we'd be doing really well. Hopefully that'll be Brewster next season, but don't see where there's room to maintain win the league and blood the youth as contiguous goals.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99549 on: April 30, 2019, 01:57:01 pm »
If we get one lad into our squad every two years we'd be doing really well. Hopefully that'll be Brewster next season, but don't see where there's room to maintain win the league and blood the youth as contiguous goals.

You absolutely can. I'd argue it's the best time to do it. It gives the youth a winning mentality when you bring them through when you're successful, as long as you do it naturally.

I'd liken Wilson a bit to how Shaqiri plays, he really loves playing between the lines.
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

Offline lamonti

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99550 on: April 30, 2019, 02:03:14 pm »
You absolutely can. I'd argue it's the best time to do it. It gives the youth a winning mentality when you bring them through when you're successful, as long as you do it naturally.

I'd liken Wilson a bit to how Shaqiri plays, he really loves playing between the lines.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Bringing youngsters into a winning team is easier than bringing them into one that's struggling.

I guess I just meant we've so little space to breathe in this season. Like, would you like to have Brewster or Sturridge on the bench against Wolves if someone gets injured?

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99551 on: April 30, 2019, 02:06:13 pm »
Yeah, I know what you mean. Bringing youngsters into a winning team is easier than bringing them into one that's struggling.

I guess I just meant we've so little space to breathe in this season. Like, would you like to have Brewster or Sturridge on the bench against Wolves if someone gets injured?

Honestly I've not seen enough of Brewster to judge. I still love Sturridge, but he really sticks out like a sore thumb in our team when he plays.
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99552 on: April 30, 2019, 03:22:26 pm »
Sturridge can't (or won't) sprint and it's heartbreaking.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99553 on: April 30, 2019, 03:25:28 pm »
Who's gonna pay us the £20m+ that Wilson is gonna cost? He'll probably do a Prem loan, if a suitable one can be arranged, after being with us for some of pre-season.

Harry... have you ever been to Bournmouth?
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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99554 on: April 30, 2019, 03:35:56 pm »
I'd be quite sad to see Wilson go, because from what I've seen of him the quality is there for him to be a premier league footballer. I'd rather we sold him than loan him out again this summer, the latter option just seems pointless at this point.

Hoever and Duncan interest me most at this point. I'd imagine the plan with them would be to keep them both in the 23s next season, and if they improve loan them out to a good level of football, be it the championship or perhaps even abroad. I think waiting so long to send Wilson out to the championship might have been a killer. Everyone saw his talent, but I felt like we kept him in the u23s for about a year longer than we should have, given he could have been playing competitive football earlier.

Perhaps we'll get a nice cup draw next season and they'll figure into it somehow.
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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99555 on: April 30, 2019, 06:04:45 pm »
Sturridge can't (or won't) sprint and it's heartbreaking.
won't  haha yeah right
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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99556 on: April 30, 2019, 06:11:16 pm »
Harry Winks for example would do pretty well in our team, as would Rashford both aren’t the level of TAA which is the very very top level, but of course they could still contribute.

Aye they would, as probably would Jan Molby still.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99557 on: April 30, 2019, 06:31:23 pm »
I'd be quite sad to see Wilson go, because from what I've seen of him the quality is there for him to be a premier league footballer. I'd rather we sold him than loan him out again this summer, the latter option just seems pointless at this point.

Hoever and Duncan interest me most at this point. I'd imagine the plan with them would be to keep them both in the 23s next season, and if they improve loan them out to a good level of football, be it the championship or perhaps even abroad. I think waiting so long to send Wilson out to the championship might have been a killer. Everyone saw his talent, but I felt like we kept him in the u23s for about a year longer than we should have, given he could have been playing competitive football earlier.

Perhaps we'll get a nice cup draw next season and they'll figure into it somehow.
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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99558 on: April 30, 2019, 06:38:30 pm »
Wilson will get a chance pre season, I'm sure of it. In fact I think he may even be given until January to prove himself. Players with Wilson's long distance shooting ability don't come around too often, I think Klopp will want to work with him for a while before making a decision on his future.
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Offline andy macca

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Re: Youth and Under 23 Thread
« Reply #99559 on: April 30, 2019, 09:00:21 pm »
Looks like the young reds have beaten man city 1 nil and won the league as well as the youth cup.

Well done everyone at the academy.