Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!

[Eeyore]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/5d3MnXrkMLLDDlxYCPSfgz3/newsnight-presenters

Katie Razzall isn't even on this

And there's this too

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jjsy

They have decided to go for a more balanced approach and it is being done by a neutral journalist. Mary Wakefield.

[Zeb]

But they do Zeb. They give everyone a hard time and rightly so.

True, about how it's done here? It's so ludicrously overanalysed by both sets looking for evidence of bias against them that there's little room for missteps as they polarise between hating either Kuenssberg or Maitlis or whoever it happens to be. Some of the best reporting by the BBC is deeply subjective but flagship news programme is probably not the best place for it right now. Dot i's and cross t's sort of thing whether broadcast or social media.

[Dr. Beaker]

So, borrowing from a previous post, if Cummings was saying 2+2=5 we'd have to balance the coverage.

This wasn't a response to your post Zeb, just coincidence.

[TepidT2O]

So, borrowing from a previous post, if Cummings was saying 2+2=5 we'd have to balance the coverage.

I think 2+2=5 is the conclusion you’ve just come if that’s your reflection.

[thaddeus]

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 43% (-4)
LAB: 37% (+2)
LDM: 9% (=)
GRN: 3% (=)

Via Redfield & Wilton, 27 May.
Changes w/ 15 May.

The direction of travel is promising but that the Conservative still command the backing of ~43% of the population is bewildering.

I get that they're "delivering Brexit" and that's a big deal to a lot of people but what about everything else?  They've cocked up the response to Covid-19 so spectacularly that we have the most linked deaths in Europe and the cost to the economy is almost certainly higher than if they had just followed the global advice early on (the downward curve being very slow and necessitating a longer lockdown).  Lying to and proroguing parliament, lying to the Queen, their general policies of supporting the wealthy over the workers, Williamson, Raab, Patel, Gove etc.

I also worry that the swing is also only temporary as the government love-in from the Telegraph, Mail and Times will resume soon enough as will the smearing of Starmer.

[Dr. Beaker]

I think 2+2=5 is the conclusion you’ve just come if that’s your reflection.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable position to think that 2+2=4 but in these exceptional circumstances.....

[Zeb]

So, borrowing from a previous post, if Cummings was saying 2+2=5 we'd have to balance the coverage.

Balance can be right to reply. An opportunity to be questioned or make a statement. But the reporting still needs to be impartial and objective - reporting he says 2+2=5 and that mathematicians fundamentally disagree and this reporter counted her toes is perfectly fine. Saying it will lead to the collapse of the economy tomorrow, not so much. It's the columnist vs reporter distinction. Comment's free, facts are sacred etc.

What Thaddeus mentions about 'let's have a heated debate' needs to be binned in all formats. That's about ratings not balance.

[ShakaHislop]

Razzall is definitely presenting tonight, according to...er, Razzall.

https://twitter.com/katierazz/status/1265742658657542144

[thaddeus]

Balance can be right to reply. An opportunity to be questioned or make a statement. But the reporting still needs to be impartial and objective - reporting he says 2+2=5 and that mathematicians fundamentally disagree and this reporter counted her toes is perfectly fine. Saying it will lead to the collapse of the economy tomorrow, not so much. It's the columnist vs reporter distinction. Comment's free, facts are sacred etc.

What Thaddeus mentions about 'let's have a heated debate' needs to be binned in all formats. That's about ratings not balance.

I'm not sure it is always about ratings though.  I think it's good that contributors are challenged on their assertions - even if it is just a knowing interviewer playing devil's advocate - as it allows the contributor to either support their initial claims or have their arguments fall apart.

It should always be civil and with the BBC it almost always is.  I don't have a problem though with the interviewer expressing their exasperation when the contributor refuses to answer follow-up questions and instead repeats their initial point repeatedly.

[Fitzy.]

In all this Cummings debacle I’ve come to learn more about the prominence of alt-right hacks intent on arguing absolutely anything to spin a debate in their favour. Really odd section of the media who are apparent cheerleaders for those in Downing St. That’s telling when you consider who top Tories will be briefing. Disturbing.

[ShakaHislop]

Does anyone know of the background to this dodgy "The Core" account?

https://twitter.com/SocialM85897394

I know the likes of Leave.EU has Arron Banks behind it, but I don't know who/what is behind the above. It's currently pushing that #mediascum trend on Twitter. I saw #mediawitchhunt earlier too.

[John C]

That TruePublica article is fucking depressing. What have the people of this country done to us.

[Red-Soldier]

That TruePublica article is fucking depressing. What have the people of this country done to us.

I've been saying similar things to my mates for the past 4 years, but many think I am slightly bonkers!

[Theoldkopite]

Surely the way for the BBC to resolve this issue is to give the Government the opportunity to put its objections to tonight’s edition of Newsnight....................oh, maybe not.

[TepidT2O]

Surely the way for the BBC to resolve this issue is to give the Government the opportunity to put its objections to tonight’s edition of Newsnight....................oh, maybe not.

But that’s the point.

If she’d said what she said, then said, these are the questions that you and I what answers too, she’d have not had a problem

[ShakaHislop]

yeah they do a rotation don’t they, thought it was Maitlis 3 days and razzell the other two or something like that

Razzall hasn't presented since the 13th of March.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000g6rv

[Zeb]

Starmer in The Mirror following up Cooper's line this afternoon.

Spoiler

Let’s begin with something Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson can’t bring himself to say but the rest of us know: Dominic Cummings broke the rules.

It is as simple as that.

His actions were an insult to the millions of people across Britain who have sacrificed so much during this pandemic.

In recent months, families have been forced to make the most agonising of decisions.

People have been unable to see loved ones. Grandparents have been denied the chance to hold newborn grandchildren.

Some of the most vulnerable in society have had to isolate alone.

In the most tragic circumstances, people haven’t been able to say goodbye at the funerals of friends or loved ones.

The lockdown has been difficult for us all. There is no denying that.

We miss each other. But, people have obeyed the rules because they understand the importance of our shared common goal; our national purpose. Stay at home, protect the NHS and save lives.

That’s why, when the revelations about Dominic Cummings’ behaviour broke over the weekend, people were angry.

And during the endless hours of press conferences over the Bank Holiday weekend, people were looking for an apology, a resignation or a plausible explanation from Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and Dominic Cummings about what happened.

None was forthcoming.

Instead, we got a very simple message: it is one rule for them, another rule for everybody else.

I share people’s frustrations, not just because of the actions of one adviser, but because this has become a national distraction at a moment of national crisis.

This was the week when we should have been talking about how we ease the lockdown safely. How we restart our economy, support businesses, get more children back to school.

Instead, the Prime Minister’s unwillingness or inability to do the right thing has left the Government looking untrustworthy, unprincipled.

And worst of all they have undermined the very public health advice that is necessary to keep us all safe, just to keep one powerful aide in his job.

In times like this, we need good government.

A government that we can trust. A government that is entirely focused on saving lives.

So, I say to the Prime Minister: we cannot go on like this. We cannot lose another week to this farce. We need to get back on track.

When I was elected leader of the Labour Party, I made a promise to the British people.

That I would work constructively with the Government. Challenging them when I thought mistakes were being made, offering my support when that was the right thing to do. I stand by that promise.

That is why I will work constructively with the Government to help us through the next phase of this pandemic.

The Prime Minister has promised a ‘world-beating’ test, track and trace system, when in fact what most people are looking for is a system that will work and will keep them safe.

For Labour, that means rapidly increasing the amount of testing to at least a quarter of a million a day.

It means recruiting an army of over 50,000 so-called ‘contract tracers’.

And it means a nationwide phone app up and running by the 1 June, as we were previously promised.

For the British people, it also means providing reassurance at time of huge anxiety.

If you or a family member have symptoms, or you have been told to go into isolation, you want to know as soon as possible whether you have got this awful virus.

No one should have to wait longer than is necessary for a test result.

That’s why I am calling on the Prime Minister to introduce a ‘COVID Test Guarantee.’

A double-lock that no one will have to wait more than 24 hours to receive a test and then to receive the results.

This will not only build public confidence in the Government’s approach, but it will also ensure we have a system in place that is putting people’s livelihoods first.

All these things are within the Government’s powers.

After a week when the Prime Minister has taken his eye off the ball, it is now time to focus on the task at hand. And to put the nation’s health first.

[close]

Part crosses onto the other thread really but it's noteworthy that Starmer is looking at the potential of people being told to take 14 days out multiple times over the coming months.

[Dr. Beaker]

Balance can be right to reply. An opportunity to be questioned or make a statement. But the reporting still needs to be impartial and objective - reporting he says 2+2=5 and that mathematicians fundamentally disagree and this reporter counted her toes is perfectly fine. Saying it will lead to the collapse of the economy tomorrow, not so much. It's the columnist vs reporter distinction. Comment's free, facts are sacred etc.

What Thaddeus mentions about 'let's have a heated debate' needs to be binned in all formats. That's about ratings not balance.

Obviously I get your point, and even agree with it, it's the way good journalism has always been done after all. I think what has brought everyone to this heightened state of exasperation is the government's constant refusal to provide Newsnight with a minister to respond to questions. Ever since Johnson refused Neil it seems to be their almost default position.

[ShakaHislop]

I had to decline Newsnight interview last night on Mr Cummings as I find @maitlis to be extraordinarily aggressive,unnecessarily rude, biased & confrontational to point of intimidation. This behaviour would not be tolerated in any normal workplace so why do we accept from #BBC

https://twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1265732875980333058

If you've never heard of this towering intellectual, then maybe this will jog your memory.

Shrewsbury MP Daniel Kawczynski pledges to check facts in Marshall Plan row

Shrewsbury MP Daniel Kawczynski says he is consulting three leading academics about the extent to which Britain benefited from American aid after the Second World War.

But Mr Kawczynski says he stands by his comments that Germany received far more post-war support than the UK.

Mr Kawczynski found himself at the centre of a social media row over the weekend after when he accused the EU of ingratitude towards Britain for its role in the Second World War.

He posted on Twitter: "Britain helped to liberate half of Europe, she mortgaged herself up to the eye balls in the process. No Marshall Plan for us only for Germany.

"We gave up war reparations in 1990. We put £370 billion into EU since we joined. Watch the way ungrateful EU treats us now. We will remember."

But his comments attracted fierce criticism that the UK actually received almost 3.3 billion dollars under the plan, making it the biggest recipient of the aid – getting more than double the 1.5 billion dollars handed to West Germany.

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/politics/2019/02/05/mp-to-speak-to-academics-in-marshall-plan-row/

[ShakaHislop]

So much to say but best to leave it for now given, for obvious reasons, certain people want nothing more than to have a debate about the media. Instead, will just say I couldn’t be prouder to work on @BBCNewsnight, a world class programme with a world class presenter @maitlis.

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1265757132500209664

[TepidT2O]

https://twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1265732875980333058

If you've never heard of this towering intellectual, then maybe this will jog your memory.

Shrewsbury MP Daniel Kawczynski pledges to check facts in Marshall Plan row

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/politics/2019/02/05/mp-to-speak-to-academics-in-marshall-plan-row/

Kawczynski took Derek Conways seat...

You may remember him for accidentally paying his wife and kids not to do any work.

They don’t half pick them....

[Red Beret]

The direction of travel is promising but that the Conservative still command the backing of ~43% of the population is bewildering.

I get that they're "delivering Brexit" and that's a big deal to a lot of people but what about everything else?  They've cocked up the response to Covid-19 so spectacularly that we have the most linked deaths in Europe and the cost to the economy is almost certainly higher than if they had just followed the global advice early on (the downward curve being very slow and necessitating a longer lockdown).  Lying to and proroguing parliament, lying to the Queen, their general policies of supporting the wealthy over the workers, Williamson, Raab, Patel, Gove etc.

I also worry that the swing is also only temporary as the government love-in from the Telegraph, Mail and Times will resume soon enough as will the smearing of Starmer.

Considering there was a general election less than six months' ago and Starmer's been in the job barely eight weeks I'd say it's a remarkable turnaround.  We'll have to wait (sadly) for the recession and Brexit to bite before we really start to see things shift. 

[TSC]

The direction of travel is promising but that the Conservative still command the backing of ~43% of the population is bewildering.

I get that they're "delivering Brexit" and that's a big deal to a lot of people but what about everything else?  They've cocked up the response to Covid-19 so spectacularly that we have the most linked deaths in Europe and the cost to the economy is almost certainly higher than if they had just followed the global advice early on (the downward curve being very slow and necessitating a longer lockdown).  Lying to and proroguing parliament, lying to the Queen, their general policies of supporting the wealthy over the workers, Williamson, Raab, Patel, Gove etc.

I also worry that the swing is also only temporary as the government love-in from the Telegraph, Mail and Times will resume soon enough as will the smearing of Starmer.

Probably correct, although a painful future beckons.  A post-Covid future will see Furlough cease, and potentially extensive job losses as some firms (maybe even industries) won’t recover. Then of course at year end we have a post brexit fallout on top.

[Zeb]

Obviously I get your point, and even agree with it, it's the way good journalism has always been done after all. I think what has brought everyone to this heightened state of exasperation is the government's constant refusal to provide Newsnight with a minister to respond to questions. Ever since Johnson refused Neil it seems to be their almost default position.

Yeah, it's truisms but I just think the BBC editorial guidelines are strict on this for good reason for a public broadcaster. I'm kind of hopeful that things will shift as Starmer and his frontbench are much more active in the media rather than cultivating a little ecosystem of their own. Cummings' games and disengagement are intended to undermine a major source of scrutiny, seems daft to help him along by turning journalists into 'one of us' or 'one of them'. Not least because the good ones will always hurt you when they train their sights on what you're getting wrong.

[TSC]

https://twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1265732875980333058

If you've never heard of this towering intellectual, then maybe this will jog your memory.

Shrewsbury MP Daniel Kawczynski pledges to check facts in Marshall Plan row

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/politics/2019/02/05/mp-to-speak-to-academics-in-marshall-plan-row/

Not the brightest star in the sky.  But then it’s a fairly low bar in government currently.

[Robinred]

Yeah, it's truisms but I just think the BBC editorial guidelines are strict on this for good reason for a public broadcaster. I'm kind of hopeful that things will shift as Starmer and his frontbench are much more active in the media rather than cultivating a little ecosystem of their own. Cummings' games and disengagement are intended to undermine a major source of scrutiny, seems daft to help him along by turning journalists into 'one of us' or 'one of them'. Not least because the good ones will always hurt you when they train their sights on what you're getting wrong.

I understand your view Zeb, and as the most reasonable and (mostly) phlegmatic poster who regularly posts in here, I value your input, because you tend to rise above tribal instincts and hyperbole.

But notwithstanding Emily Maitlis’s arguably overstepping the mark, there’s something deeply disturbing about the current situation - where one unelected adviser is by common consent ‘above the law’ and untouchable, yet one of the few BBC voices with chutzpah gets self evidently and very publicly slapped on the wrist.

It does leave a nasty taste, it does beg more and more questions - that have grown louder and louder - about the relationship between a Cummings - dominated Tory Party and the editorial neutrality of the BBC.

And I share the view expressed by a few seasoned posters that SKY and Channel 4 are these days far more probing, fearless and watchable, Newsnight being an exception.

[Zeb]

I agree about the BBC becoming less willing to take risks, although isn't that a symptom of being placed for a few years now between two sides who treat any negative coverage as symbolic of engrained bias? Playing to the strengths of the populists' chosen divisions may not end well all round. Johnson sat there all Baron Greenback, Nero up top, denouncing media lies but unable to provide one as an example.

[TepidT2O]

Let’s remember the anger over the ‘communist cap’ back drop.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

This is about politics. Not media. Feel free to open a media discussion if we don't have one...

[RF]

A part of me hoped that something good would have come out of bad and that what Boris had gone through having Covid, he would have come out of the other side a different person, a better person if only a little. I actually thought this may have given him a jolt to show a bit more humility, a bit more compassion, understanding and reason.

More fool me.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

A part of me hoped that something good would have come out of bad and that what Boris had gone through having Covid, he would have come out of the other side a different person, a better person if only a little. I actually thought this may have given him a jolt to show a bit more humility, a bit more compassion, understanding and reason.

More fool me.

Crystal Meth. Just say no mate. Say no..

[Dr. Beaker]

I understand your view Zeb, and as the most reasonable and (mostly) phlegmatic poster who regularly posts in here, I value your input, because you tend to rise above tribal instincts and hyperbole.

But notwithstanding Emily Maitlis’s arguably overstepping the mark, there’s something deeply disturbing about the current situation - where one unelected adviser is by common consent ‘above the law’ and untouchable, yet one of the few BBC voices with chutzpah gets self evidently and very publicly slapped on the wrist.

It does leave a nasty taste, it does beg more and more questions - that have grown louder and louder - about the relationship between a Cummings - dominated Tory Party and the editorial neutrality of the BBC.

And I share the view expressed by a few seasoned posters that SKY and Channel 4 are these days far more probing, fearless and watchable, Newsnight being an exception.

Final word on the media - well maybe not. My impression, which may be wrong, is that Sky news' turnaround came about after that major spat between Alistair Campbell and Adam Boulton in the aftermath of the coalition election.

[12C]

Didn't he say it is guaranteed to be working on 1st June?

He did at PMQs but “No10 sources” were rowing back immediately afterwards on the app.

[Red-Soldier]

I understand your view Zeb, and as the most reasonable and (mostly) phlegmatic poster who regularly posts in here, I value your input, because you tend to rise above tribal instincts and hyperbole.

But notwithstanding Emily Maitlis’s arguably overstepping the mark, there’s something deeply disturbing about the current situation - where one unelected adviser is by common consent ‘above the law’ and untouchable, yet one of the few BBC voices with chutzpah gets self evidently and very publicly slapped on the wrist.

It does leave a nasty taste, it does beg more and more questions - that have grown louder and louder - about the relationship between a Cummings - dominated Tory Party and the editorial neutrality of the BBC.

And I share the view expressed by a few seasoned posters that SKY and Channel 4 are these days far more probing, fearless and watchable, Newsnight being an exception.

BBC news bosses agreed with the criticism of its own show, swiftly issuing a statement distancing themselves from the monologue. BBC sources said Newsnight’s editor, Esme Wren, worked on Tuesday night’s episode.

“The BBC must uphold the highest standards of due impartiality in its news output,” the corporation said in a statement. “We’ve reviewed the entirety of last night’s Newsnight, including the opening section, and while we believe the programme contained fair, reasonable and rigorous journalism, we feel that we should have done more to make clear the introduction was a summary of the questions we would examine, with all the accompanying evidence, in the rest of the programme.

“As it was, we believe the introduction we broadcast did not meet our standards of due impartiality. Our staff have been reminded of the guidelines.”

Keith Brown, SNP deputy leader, said: “This statement is a gutless capitulation by BBC bosses. Newsnight should be commended - not slapped down - for their serious investigative work on Cummings, that’s not something you could say about the BBC News at 10.

“Pandering to 10 Downing Street by curbing journalists from being able to hold the UK government to account is of serious concern.”

An SNP spokesperson added: “It’s ironic that the only apology over the whole Dominic Cummings lockdown breaches scandal comes from the BBC.”

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/may/27/bbc-switches-emily-maitlis-in-newsnight-episode-over-cummings-remarks

[TSC]

He did at PMQs but “No10 sources” were rowing back immediately afterwards on the app.

System is being rushed out to attempt to divert focus from Cummings issue.  Rushed out absent the app.  A true exemplar.

And adherence is mandated, confirmed again by Hancock today.

[Fitzy.]

Wonder if there’s a tipping point for Cummings or that nothing will see him removed

[TSC]

Wonder if there’s a tipping point for Cummings or that nothing will see him removed

Question for PM/government IMO. The ‘rose garden’ episode is evidence Cummings is determined to stay.  Actions by PM and cabinet would suggest Cummings holds all the aces.  Maybe Cummings will show his hand if government fail to back him, hence the current situation.

[Dr. Beaker]

Wonder if there’s a tipping point for Cummings or that nothing will see him removed

Only when Johnson jumps on the same end of the see-saw.

[TSC]

System is being rushed out to attempt to divert focus from Cummings issue.  Rushed out absent the app.  A true exemplar.

And adherence is mandated, confirmed again by Hancock today.

Just seen Hancocks interview on sky.  He confirms compliance will be mandated through employers where apt, and referred to the law change to enable this back in March.

[Kekule]

Wonder if there’s a tipping point for Cummings or that nothing will see him removed

What is it, 60 odd MPs who have called for him to go?  You have to ask how far they'll go in trying to get rid of him.  They aren't going to trigger a leadership challenge, I can't see any of them voting against the government in any sort of no confidence vote.  So they're purely doing it to demonstrate to their constituents that they are unhappy.

Cummings will stay, they'll just keep stonewalling and saying "move on" until something else comes along.