Topic: Brexit. the Con continues

[So… Howard Philips]

Oh I get it, and my country has the biggest cock waving cocks in the world - but I always counted on you guys to be of the of level headed, more reasonable devotion. To send military vessels against a NATO ally, just seems like the world has gone mad.

But France is a bit ambivalent about its NATO membership.

Bizarrely its 200 years since Napoleon's death but we still owe them one for cutting down Nelson before he could have his victory parade after Trafalgar.

[killer-heels]

If the French win what do they get?

They get their Baguette De Monde’s back.

[PaulF]

Oooh. I think I've found a benefit. We can raise the limit on contactless beyond fifty euros.
Not fact checked to see how easily we might do that whilst still in the EU.

[Elmo!]

Oooh. I think I've found a benefit. We can raise the limit on contactless beyond fifty euros.
Not fact checked to see how easily we might do that whilst still in the EU.

We did that last year when we were still in the transition period though?

[Red Beret]

We did that last year when we were still in the transition period though?

Yeah, raised it from £30 to £45 to make it easier to pay, as shops got the heebie jeebies over accepting cash.

[Elmo!]

Yeah, raised it from £30 to £45 to make it easier to pay, as shops got the heebie jeebies over accepting cash.

Ah I thought it went to £60. Still £45 is still just about more than 50 euros.

[rob1966]

Oooh. I think I've found a benefit. We can raise the limit on contactless beyond fifty euros.
Not fact checked to see how easily we might do that whilst still in the EU.

Pickpockets like that idea

[redbyrdz]

Pickpockets like that idea

Was going to say, not sure if that is a massive benefit, it just makes fraud more profitable.

I actually think they lifted the limit again, to £100, but none of the shops were interested in applying that.

[rob1966]

Was going to say, not sure if that is a massive benefit, it just makes fraud more profitable.

I actually think they lifted the limit again, to £100, but none of the shops were interested in applying that.

I lost my card without knowing it the day I got my first vaccine on 6th Mar. Luckily it was a decent girl who found it and not some scrote. First I knew was when the missus was tagged in a post of the local area FB group to say is this your Robs card? It had fallen out of my pocket and I didn't even know. Could have easily seen nearly £300 go out of my account

[killer-heels]

Barnier making a pitch for French President, with a policy of banning all immigration into Europe for 5-years. Guess all his compassion that he cited during negotiations only extends to Europeans.

[BarryCrocker]

What a fckn liberty.

One of the key architects of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s Brexit deal has admitted it is damaging Northern Irish businesses and warned it may not be sustainable.

After his trip, Lord Frost said: “It’s clear from my visit that the protocol is presenting significant challenges for many in Northern Ireland.”

"Businesses have gone to extraordinary efforts to make the current requirements work, but it is hard to see that the way the protocol is currently operating can be sustainable for long. " He added: “We’re committed to working through the issues with the EU urgently and in good faith. I hope they will take a common sense, risk-based approach that enables us to agree a pragmatic way forward that substantially eases the burdens on Northern Ireland.”

"Solutions must be found rapidly in order to protect the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement in all its dimensions and to minimise disruption to the everyday lives of people in Northern Ireland - as the protocol itself requires.  As the Prime Minister has made clear, we will continue to consider all our options in meeting our overriding responsibility for sustaining the peace and prosperity of everyone in Northern Ireland.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-boris-johnson-northern-ireland-b1845852.html

[Nobby Reserve]

What a fckn liberty.

One of the key architects of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s Brexit deal has admitted it is damaging Northern Irish businesses and warned it may not be sustainable.

After his trip, Lord Frost said: “It’s clear from my visit that the protocol is presenting significant challenges for many in Northern Ireland.”

"Businesses have gone to extraordinary efforts to make the current requirements work, but it is hard to see that the way the protocol is currently operating can be sustainable for long. " He added: “We’re committed to working through the issues with the EU urgently and in good faith. I hope they will take a common sense, risk-based approach that enables us to agree a pragmatic way forward that substantially eases the burdens on Northern Ireland.”

"Solutions must be found rapidly in order to protect the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement in all its dimensions and to minimise disruption to the everyday lives of people in Northern Ireland - as the protocol itself requires.  As the Prime Minister has made clear, we will continue to consider all our options in meeting our overriding responsibility for sustaining the peace and prosperity of everyone in Northern Ireland.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-boris-johnson-northern-ireland-b1845852.html

The solution is easy: sign up to the Single Market and Customs Union

 

[Riquende]

The solution is easy: sign up to the Single Market and Customs Union

Yep. As has been the case since day 1 of this whole palaver, you can have any two of a Hard Brexit, an entirely independent and Sovereign UK, and a functioning Northern Ireland/protection of the GF agreement. Seeing as May took anything except Hard Brexit off the table early on, we've been sliding inexorably towards this scenario for years. The EU saw this and put in the infamous backstop provision.

'Get rid of the backstop' then became the rallying cry of the ERG, which Johnson did by caving in entirely to EU so it wasn't needed. His long term plan, given that he doesn't have May's integrity, was always to sign up for anything just to get over the stumbling block that was stopping the actual exit happening, and then just trying to ignore what he'd signed up for anyway.

[PaulF]

Was going to say, not sure if that is a massive benefit, it just makes fraud more profitable.

I actually think they lifted the limit again, to £100, but none of the shops were interested in applying that.

Yeah, I think they said at the budget it could go up to £100. My wife's not impressed. But she didn't like the £30 limit , nor the £45 one.  I've not pointed out that google pay and apple pay are already limitless.

I totally get it's debatable as a benefit, and a small one at best. But gotta take the wins when we can them. (me a remoaner, never).

[Nobby Reserve]

Yep. As has been the case since day 1 of this whole palaver, you can have any two of a Hard Brexit, an entirely independent and Sovereign UK, and a functioning Northern Ireland/protection of the GF agreement. Seeing as May took anything except Hard Brexit off the table early on, we've been sliding inexorably towards this scenario for years. The EU saw this and put in the infamous backstop provision.

'Get rid of the backstop' then became the rallying cry of the ERG, which Johnson did by caving in entirely to EU so it wasn't needed. His long term plan, given that he doesn't have May's integrity, was always to sign up for anything just to get over the stumbling block that was stopping the actual exit happening, and then just trying to ignore what he'd signed up for anyway.

Absolutely.

This posturing by Frost, and Lewis before him, talking about the protocol 'not working' is laying the ground for the UK pulling out of the protocol or, more likely because it's the snide option and these corrupt scum Tories are snide personified, they will simply start ignoring the rules of the protocol.

They will expect and hope for an EU reaction, so they can present this to the flagshagging Brexwits in England as the EU playing the Brussels bully against old Blighty, and that we need to stand up to these EU'crats because we didn't win two world wars to be bossed around by Fritz.

Unfortunately, there's a big enough minority of bellends in this country, with the FPTP system, to fall for this shit, and the grown-up majority can only hold our collective head in our hands.

[Sangria]

Absolutely.

This posturing by Frost, and Lewis before him, talking about the protocol 'not working' is laying the ground for the UK pulling out of the protocol or, more likely because it's the snide option and these corrupt scum Tories are snide personified, they will simply start ignoring the rules of the protocol.

They will expect and hope for an EU reaction, so they can present this to the flagshagging Brexwits in England as the EU playing the Brussels bully against old Blighty, and that we need to stand up to these EU'crats because we didn't win two world wars to be bossed around by Fritz.

Unfortunately, there's a big enough minority of bellends in this country, with the FPTP system, to fall for this shit, and the grown-up majority can only hold our collective head in our hands.

I can understand, or at least imagine, how the Tory right are pressing all the right buttons for the nationalist right to devotedly give them their support. But what about those on the left who purport to oppose them, yet give them their support anyway? How do Lexiteers claim to oppose the Tories when they're giving the Tories their strongest electoral argument?

[Red-Soldier]

I can understand, or at least imagine, how the Tory right are pressing all the right buttons for the nationalist right to devotedly give them their support. But what about those on the left who purport to oppose them, yet give them their support anyway? How do Lexiteers claim to oppose the Tories when they're giving the Tories their strongest electoral argument?

Left, left, left and more left.

 

It's all the Left's fault, it's all the Left's fault!

[oldfordie]

The solution is easy: sign up to the Single Market and Customs Union

 

I think part of the problem is brexit supporters seem to think frictionless trading is the natural way trading works so the EU are just being vidictive bringing in all these barrieries at borders etc.
If you tell them no other country in the world enjoys frictionless trading it falls on deaf ears. if you tell them the only countries in the world who have frictionless trading is members of the single market and customs union then this also falls on deaf ears, as you say the only solution is to rejoin the SM+CU any other so called solutions are bull..to con the ignorant.

[Nobby Reserve]

I think part of the problem is brexit supporters seem to think frictionless trading is the natural way trading works so the EU are just being vidictive bringing in all these barrieries at borders etc.
If you tell them no other country in the world enjoys frictionless trading it falls on deaf ears. if you tell them the only countries in the world who have frictionless trading is members of the single market and customs union then this also falls on deaf ears, as you say the only solution is to rejoin the SM+CU any other so called solutions are bull..to con the ignorant.

They've been gaslit to believe this shit by the RWM, Leave campaign, and Tories.

Many have willingly been gaslit, as they hate the notion of the UK just being a component part of the bigger and more important organisation.

[Elmo!]

Left, left, left and more left.

 

It's all the Left's fault, it's all the Left's fault!

I'm genuinely starting to wonder if Sangria is just on a big windup. 

[TSC]

Absolutely.

This posturing by Frost, and Lewis before him, talking about the protocol 'not working' is laying the ground for the UK pulling out of the protocol or, more likely because it's the snide option and these corrupt scum Tories are snide personified, they will simply start ignoring the rules of the protocol.

They will expect and hope for an EU reaction, so they can present this to the flagshagging Brexwits in England as the EU playing the Brussels bully against old Blighty, and that we need to stand up to these EU'crats because we didn't win two world wars to be bossed around by Fritz.

Unfortunately, there's a big enough minority of bellends in this country, with the FPTP system, to fall for this shit, and the grown-up majority can only hold our collective head in our hands.

Biggest elephant in the room of that direction of travel is Joe Biden.

[Sangria]

I'm genuinely starting to wonder if Sangria is just on a big windup. 

There's a guy in the other thread who claims to be a true socialist and who blames the EU for deregulation, this presumably being why he supported Brexit.

[Elmo!]

There's a guy in the other thread who claims to be a true socialist and who blames the EU for deregulation, this presumably being why he supported Brexit.

I know, I got in an argument with them myself. I don't think there are enough of them to warrant so much attention though. 

[Jiminy Cricket]

I know, I got in an argument with them myself. I don't think there are enough of them to warrant so much attention though. 

I've just added a signature line.

[Elmo!]

I've just added a signature line.

I'm honoured.

 

[Lusty]

I've just added a signature line.

Truly one of the maddest shouts in RAWK history.  Which is saying a lot!

[Jiminy Cricket]

I'm honoured.

 

I don't suppose you were expecting that for an answer when you posted your question.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Truly one of the maddest shouts in RAWK history.  Which is saying a lot!

My exact same reaction at the time.

Yep. One of the more ridiculous comments I've witnessed at RAWK. And, let's face it, it is against some pretty stiff competition!

[TSC]

Government meeting loyalist paramilitaries it appears re the NI protocol.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brexit-minister-met-loyalist-paramilitary-representatives-after-admitting-protocol-he-negotiated-wont-last-269219/

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/david-frost-and-brandon-lewis-met-loyalist-paramilitary-representatives-40419105.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57085048

[Nobby Reserve]

Biggest elephant in the room of that direction of travel is Joe Biden.

Well, yes.

This government won't formally withdraw from the GFA.

I think they'll just simply begin to ignore the Irish Sea border. The EU will then either accept there isn't a border between the UK and EU without a formal agreement (which I can't imagine them doing) or impose a border between NI and the Republic of Ireland, which would play into the hands of this corrupt Tory regime.

If the latter, I would hope Biden has the fortitude to openly blame the UK for the collapse of the GFA.


There has only ever been 3 possible solutions to the UK/Ireland border issue:

1) Impose the border between NI and The Republic. This destroys the GFA, which is an international treaty in which the US is heavily invested (and the current President especially supportive of)

2) Put the border in the Irish Sea. This is the option this government has chosen, but the compliant media haven't made much of this fact, and most Brexwits don't seem to realise the formal arrangement exists. Potentially makes the possibility of a united Ireland more likely (I'd fucking love it!)

3) Reach an agreement with the EU for there to be no border. This would need the UK to accept a Customs Union and Single Market arrangement, with oversight by the European Court. This is unacceptable for those pulling the strings of the Tory Party - those with huge financial interest in ATAD/AMLD not being fully implemented in the UK, which would open up the BOTs and CDs for scrutiny by authorities and investigators.

[Commie Bobbie]

One group of Terrorists that this government have got no issues bending over backwards for.

UK ministers meet representatives of NI paramilitaries to discuss Brexit

Lord Frost and Brandon Lewis spoke with loyalist delegation this week about border check concerns

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/12/uk-ministers-meet-representatives-of-ni-paramilitaries-to-discuss-brexit

The Brexit minister, Lord Frost, and the Northern Ireland secretary, Brandon Lewis, met representatives of loyalist paramilitaries on Monday during a visit to Northern Ireland, it has emerged.

The Loyalist Communities Council (LCC), a body which includes representatives of the UVF, UDA and Red Hand Commando paramilitary groups, confirmed a “small delegation” of its members met the ministers on Monday to discuss continuing concerns over checks on goods coming into the region from Great Britain caused by Brexit.

“The delegation emphasised the need for significant change to the Northern Ireland protocol to bring it back into consistency with the Belfast agreement and to remove the clear change in the status of Northern Ireland that has occurred due to the imposition of the protocol,” it said.

“Members advised Lord Frost of the efforts they had to make to try and calm the wider unionist community and appealed to him to ensure that the prime minister honoured his commitments to seek, and if necessary unilaterally legislate, to reach an agreement on a workable alternative.”

Downing Street said it was important to “engage widely” with communities in Northern Ireland. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s official spokesperson said: “The UK government regularly meets with groups and individuals from across all parts of the community and it is important we hear a diverse range of views. We are going to continue to engage widely to ensure that the UK government is able to meet its objectives in Northern Ireland.”

The meeting came before a statement on Tuesday by Frost hinting that unilateral action over the Brexit protocols was an option if the current round of talks with Brussels over the border checks did not result in a mutually agreeable outcome.

He urged the EU to take a “commonsense, risk-based approach” to the Northern Ireland protocol, saying the way it was operating was not sustainable.

The EU said the checks were a consequence of Johnson’s Brexit and of the deal he signed on the Northern Ireland protocol. Insiders also said the UK had, in talks, recently ruled out a food standards deal tying the UK to the EU regulations, which would have reduced checks on goods crossing the Irish Sea into Northern Ireland by 90%.

The LCC is also seeking a meeting with European Commission vice-president, Maroš Šefčovič, “to ensure that he understands how the Belfast agreement has been breached by the protocol”.

[hide5seek]

Prick!

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/andy-burnham-london-economic-brexit-manchester-mayor-westminster-269049/?fbclid=IwAR1Zsed0u_jyu2tQeofea4zP8BTH9b0z1PD6zo8OFqfm0EnSZ1ppigE_Umk#.YJwOcV0c6xE.facebook

[Red-Soldier]

Prick!

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/andy-burnham-london-economic-brexit-manchester-mayor-westminster-269049/?fbclid=IwAR1Zsed0u_jyu2tQeofea4zP8BTH9b0z1PD6zo8OFqfm0EnSZ1ppigE_Umk#.YJwOcV0c6xE.facebook

He's playing to his voters.

[hide5seek]

He's playing to his voters.

Manchester voted remain.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Had a few Labour voters/people recently saying that we shouldn't called Brexit voters thick and who seem pretty happy as they are investing in the Lexit view (Despite an actual Far-Right leaning Government being in charge for the forseeable future)

Finger in the ear time when you talk about deregulaton, workers rights, human rights and the rest.

Apparantly we just need to get Corbyn back in and we're into a Lexit wonderland of opportunity.

[Welshred]

Manchester voted remain.

He's making moves for party leadership IMO. Quite a lot of stuff he's said recently has a national angle to it rather than a local one.

[Red-Soldier]

Not sure where you're hearing this.

I'd suggest these people are a tiny minority.

Perhaps you can join Sangria 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Not sure where you're hearing this.

I'd suggest these people are a tiny minority.

Perhaps you can join Sangria 

Twitter, Facebook - online on forums and stuff

So you're saying that it's not true and I'm not hearing this..?

[rob1966]

He's making moves for party leadership IMO. Quite a lot of stuff he's said recently has a national angle to it rather than a local one.

I agree, He's not speaking to Manchester or Liverpool when he says these things, he's speaking to Hartlepool, Hull, Blythe, Sunderland, all those places who voted Leave/Tory.

[The Real Rasta]

Twitter, Facebook - online on forums and stuff

So you're saying that it's not true and I'm not hearing this..?

No Andy he's saying those people are a very tiny minority and you seem to be the only person on here coming across them in great frequency as has been said to you before.