Author Topic: Tories really really aren't very nice at all are they? (***)  (Read 190561 times)

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,529
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1120 on: November 14, 2017, 03:17:12 pm »
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/brexit-russia-influence-twitter-bots-internet-research-agency

https://amp.cnn.com/money/2017/11/10/media/russia-brexit-tweets/index.html

No offence Red, I have a lot of respect for you, but I think you're way off concluding this is some kind of election face-saving exercise. It's pertinent this week for a number of reasons.

Thanks for the articles. I'll read up and get back to you.  :)

And just to clarify,  it's not that I believe Putin didn't or wouldn't meddle - it's more a question of would he need to bother, given the shambolic nature of British politics in general.

It's not that I was being tongue in cheek but I did intend to be a bit more lighthearted than perhaps I came across!
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline thejbs

  • well-focussed, deffo not at all bias......ed
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,769
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1121 on: November 14, 2017, 04:28:21 pm »
I'm not sure Hammond will be able to get anything vaguely contentious through Parliament, so I suspect it will be a pretty minimalist budget

I hope you're right. The report is based on the flawed notion that every small business works to keep under the threshold. Some sole traders and small businesses aren't realistically scaleable to over 85k. That means they'll just be throwing a massive hike at people like plumbers, joiners and electricians which will only encourage them to take more undeclared cash payments.

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1122 on: November 14, 2017, 04:32:37 pm »
The Tory Party in Kensington have sent out a questionnaire to local residents to canvas their views on a variety of issues.

One of the questions asked how important the Grenfell Fire Disaster was to them and their family - on a scale of "0 - not important at all" to "10 - very important".

Words fail me.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,442
  • The first five yards........
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1123 on: November 14, 2017, 04:34:18 pm »
The Tory Party in Kensington have sent out a questionnaire to local residents to canvas their views on a variety of issues.

One of the questions asked how important the Grenfell Fire Disaster was to them and their family - on a scale of "0 - not important at all" to "10 - very important".

Words fail me.


I don't get this.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline SP

  • Thor ain't got shit on this dude! Alpheus. SPoogle. The Equusfluminis Of RAWK. Straight in at the deep end with a tube of Vagisil. Needs to get a half-life. Needs a damned good de-frag.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 36,042
  • .
  • Super Title: Southern Pansy
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1124 on: November 14, 2017, 04:49:13 pm »
It was raised in another topic. The Twitterverse is treating Grenfell as a sacred cow that you cannot ask people how they feel about it.

If they then take a bean counter decision that their core vote doesn't care about the survivors, that is despicable. Asking residents about the relative importance of the various issues facing the council is actually doing their job.

There is plenty to take offence at from that council, this feels like a dog whistle message for a section of Twitter.

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1125 on: November 14, 2017, 04:57:18 pm »
It was raised in another topic. The Twitterverse is treating Grenfell as a sacred cow that you cannot ask people how they feel about it.

If they then take a bean counter decision that their core vote doesn't care about the survivors, that is despicable. Asking residents about the relative importance of the various issues facing the council is actually doing their job.

There is plenty to take offence at from that council, this feels like a dog whistle message for a section of Twitter.


I was under the impression that it was the Kensington branch of the Tory Party that had sent the questionnaire - to find out what topics to focus on in their election campaigns

Additionally, whilst I agree it is not wrong to ask how local residents feel about Grenfell, to lump it in with a general bunch of questions with a "0 - not important at all" to "10 - very important" answer choice is crass and spectacularly insensitive to say the very least.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Peabee

  • SKPB! Is goin' down der Asd.....der Waitrose.....anyone wannany hummus?
  • Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,682
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1126 on: November 14, 2017, 05:56:07 pm »
It was raised in another topic. The Twitterverse is treating Grenfell as a sacred cow that you cannot ask people how they feel about it.

If they then take a bean counter decision that their core vote doesn't care about the survivors, that is despicable. Asking residents about the relative importance of the various issues facing the council is actually doing their job.

There is plenty to take offence at from that council, this feels like a dog whistle message for a section of Twitter.

It was the local Tory Party surveying residents, with their campaign office as the return address, not the council. 
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 06:02:05 pm by Peabee »
We aren't walking through the storm now - we are the storm.

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,373
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1127 on: November 14, 2017, 06:02:12 pm »
It was the local Tory Party surveying residents, not the council. 

Par for the course. A desperate party scrambling around trying to find policies. Having to ask a question about Grenfell like that just illustrates what sorts of people inhabit that gutter party.

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,529
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1128 on: November 14, 2017, 07:44:24 pm »
Par for the course. A desperate party scrambling around trying to find policies. Having to ask a question about Grenfell like that just illustrates what sorts of people inhabit that gutter party.

Sounds like intel gathering, ie how much damage could they suffer from this issue in an election?
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline west_london_red

  • Knows his stuff - pull the udder one! RAWK's Dairy Queen.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,863
  • watching me? but whose watching you watching me?
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1129 on: November 14, 2017, 08:38:38 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-41984339

Tories and Foreign Office as usual no where to be seen even though there seems to be a minister or royal pretty much permanently stationed in India trying to get a trade deal.
Thinking is overrated.
The mind is a tool, it's not meant to be used that much.
Rest, love, observe. Laugh.

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,529
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1130 on: November 14, 2017, 09:30:15 pm »
Quote
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/brexit-russia-influence-twitter-bots-internet-research-agency

https://amp.cnn.com/money/2017/11/10/media/russia-brexit-tweets/index.html

No offence Red, I have a lot of respect for you, but I think you're way off concluding this is some kind of election face-saving exercise. It's pertinent this week for a number of reasons.

Thanks for the articles. I'll read up and get back to you.  :)

These articles indicate strong evidence of attempted meddling.  A lot of the posts came after the vote.  I'm inclined to believe that whatever attempts were made they were nowhere near as well coordinated as the attack on the US; the post-Brexit tweets suggest an effort was made to shore up the result against buyers remorse and a potential back tracking from the result.

The result was a knife edge; it's impossible to say if these bots substantially influenced the outcome either way, because our own media machine was so rabidly pro-Brexit to begin with.  It doesn't help that the investigation on this side of the Atlantic seems to be running so much slower - the referendum was over a year ago but the first oral hearings with FB and twitter aren't due to be held until next year ffs.

Can't we borrow Mueller for a couple of months?
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,373
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1131 on: November 14, 2017, 11:09:06 pm »
The front page of the Telegraph is quite an image. Tories turning on Tories, on a Tory platform.

Offline jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 77,420
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1132 on: November 14, 2017, 11:11:58 pm »
The front page of the Telegraph is quite an image. Tories turning on Tories, on a Tory platform.

Some of those Tories complaining about the Telegraph in their twitters such as Anna Soubry and Nicky Morgan.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,373
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1133 on: November 14, 2017, 11:15:50 pm »
Some of those Tories complaining about the Telegraph in their twitters such as Anna Soubry and Nicky Morgan.


The heart bleeds for them. Especially Nicky Morgan, who looks more and more like Dobby the house elf everytime I see her.

Offline jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 77,420
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1134 on: November 14, 2017, 11:20:44 pm »
The heart bleeds for them. Especially Nicky Morgan, who looks more and more like Dobby the house elf everytime I see her.

That's a bit insulting to Dobby.

I don't feel sorry for them its more this idea that the Telegraph is attacking people for wanting there to be a good deal in place first. The recklessness of those who just want to leave without anything in place is just irrational to me. Politics of selfishness and refusing to think of the consequences of what might happen. It was interesting listening to Grieve calling his own side delusional in this idea that there is anything to gain, from leaving Europe with no deal.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,373
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1135 on: November 14, 2017, 11:40:16 pm »
That's a bit insulting to Dobby.

I don't feel sorry for them its more this idea that the Telegraph is attacking people for wanting there to be a good deal in place first. The recklessness of those who just want to leave without anything in place is just irrational to me. Politics of selfishness and refusing to think of the consequences of what might happen. It was interesting listening to Grieve calling his own side delusional in this idea that there is anything to gain, from leaving Europe with no deal.

In the case of the Telegraph, despite it being a pro Brexit paper, i would say the spectre of Corbyn is a bigger worry than staying in the EU and they realise what a loss on that motion would do to the Tories.

Offline Peabee

  • SKPB! Is goin' down der Asd.....der Waitrose.....anyone wannany hummus?
  • Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,682
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1136 on: November 15, 2017, 10:51:13 am »
The front page of the Telegraph is quite an image. Tories turning on Tories, on a Tory platform.

Tax avoiding Tory editors/owners turning on elected Tory MPs.  It’s becoming clear that, for a certain group of influential people, Brexit is about retaining tax havens outside of the EU. 
We aren't walking through the storm now - we are the storm.

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1137 on: November 15, 2017, 11:05:00 am »
That's a bit insulting to Dobby.

I don't feel sorry for them its more this idea that the Telegraph is attacking people for wanting there to be a good deal in place first. The recklessness of those who just want to leave without anything in place is just irrational to me. Politics of selfishness and refusing to think of the consequences of what might happen. It was interesting listening to Grieve calling his own side delusional in this idea that there is anything to gain, from leaving Europe with no deal.


You don't have to feel sorry for them, but it's important to recognise this as another attempt by the right-wing media to subvert the democratic process and/or the rule of law. It sits with the Daily Heil headlines naming judges who were ruling on legal matters concerning Brexit to ensure the law was adhered to. It sits with the disgusting targeting of Gina Miller when she challenged some legal aspects of Brexit. It sits with the [again] Daily Heil's witch-hunt of so-called pro-Remain lecturers in universities.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline So… Howard Philips

  • Penile Toupé Extender. Notoriously work-shy, copper-bottomed pervert.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,146
  • All I want for Christmas is a half and half scarf
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1138 on: November 15, 2017, 11:14:04 am »
Tax avoiding Tory editors/owners turning on elected Tory MPs.  It’s becoming clear that, for a certain group of influential people, Brexit is about retaining tax havens outside of the EU.

And absolutely nothing to do with British democratic or Parliamentary process.

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1139 on: November 15, 2017, 11:21:41 am »
Tax avoiding Tory editors/owners turning on elected Tory MPs.  It’s becoming clear that, for a certain group of influential people, Brexit is about retaining tax havens outside of the EU.

It's not just the retention of tax havens (although that is a huge factor), but the wider issue of accompanying additional scrutiny of cash flows through EU territories. A substantial chunk of the money flowing through The City is dirty in some way (from being en route to tax dodging hideaways to more nefarious laundering) and making London subject to new scrutiny and regulation will remove a significant chunk of income derived from skimming from these cash flows.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1140 on: November 15, 2017, 12:04:35 pm »
A small step in the right direction for Universal Credit.

Quote
The government is preparing to confirm that it will cut the six-week waiting time for universal credit, caving in to Conservative backbench rebels.

After being promised concessions by ministers, a group of Conservative MPs concerned about the impact of the delay on their constituents were persuaded not to vote against the government in a Labour-led debate on universal credit last month.

The six-week wait was the central concern of the group, which includes Heidi Allen and Johnny Mercer, and the government is expected to reduce it, most likely by eliminating the seven-day mandatory waiting time at the start of any new claim.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/15/six-week-wait-for-universal-credit-set-to-be-reduced

January remains the point now where this thing can be paused. It really needs such a thorough review of its basic principles. Not that this is news.  But, from the Guardian link...

Quote
Are there other problems?

Plenty. Landlords are worried about the level of rent arrears racked up by tenants on universal credit. Unchecked, this will lead to a spike in evictions. Claimants complain that universal credit is bafflingly complex, unreliable, and difficult to manage, particularly if you are without internet access. Multibillion-pound cuts to work allowances imposed by the former chancellor George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford mean universal credit is far less generous than originally envisaged. According to the Resolution Foundation thinktank, about 2.5m low-income working households will be more than £1,000 a year worse off when they move on to universal credit.

And a lot more than that too. eg self-employed getting thoroughly shafted on it if their income varies too much.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1141 on: November 16, 2017, 12:42:34 am »
Same old, same old.

Quote
The DWP’s position was revealed when Mr Jarvis asked a parliamentary question to find out “whether the usage of food banks has changed in places where Universal Credit has been rolled out”.

The response said: “This Department has made no assessment of recent trends in food bank use, and has no plans to collect or publish statistics.”

Quote
A DWP spokesman said: “Reasons for food bank use are complex, so it’s misleading to link them to any one issue.

“We’re rolling out Universal Credit in a safe and secure way, monitoring its impact and making improvements to ensure people are getting the support they need.

“This includes strengthening the safety net around advance payments to make sure people know the maximum they can get upfront.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/universal-credit-government-food-banks-benefits-work-pensions-dwp-charities-mps-dan-jarvis-a8048496.html

The maximum someone 'can get upfront' is two weeks money to cover them for six weeks, including rent. And then that first payment has to cover arrears and then the next month's living costs, and start paying back the two weeks. Dickheads.

Happily, lack of Tory interest doesn't stop studies from being done. Only quoting the conclusion here, and there are caveats attached to the study, but:

Quote
We found that foodbank users were more likely to be single adults, lone mothers, have fewer adults in the household, and to be currently unemployed or homeless. Delays in receiving benefits appear to drive many people to use foodbanks. By comparison with other disadvantaged groups, those who use foodbanks have experienced more financial strain, adverse life events and food insecurity. These factors in addition to being a male and currently not receiving benefits due to sanction and delay, increased the severity of food insecurity.

https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/doi/10.1093/pubmed/fdx133/4555347

Not solely UC, no. But there's a fuckton of Tory 'reform' in the mix which will include UC's delays and cuts, oh and sanctions. Almost 1 in 10 sanctions for UC are for more than 3 months, a sanction has a median duration of 31 days, and 6.9% of UC claimants were under some form of sanction as of March. JSA is currently running at 0.4%. Source
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,810
  • Trada
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1142 on: November 16, 2017, 10:58:07 am »
Landmark study links Tory austerity to 120,000 deaths

Government is accused of 'economic murder'


The Conservatives have been accused of “economic murder” for austerity policies which a new study suggests have caused 120,000 deaths.

The paper found that there were 45,000 more deaths in the first four years of Tory-led efficiencies than would have been expected if funding had stayed at pre-election levels.

On this trajectory that could rise to nearly 200,000 excess deaths by the end of 2020, even with the extra funding that has been earmarked for public sector services this year.

Real terms funding for health and social care fell under the Conservative-led Coalition Government in 2010, and the researchers conclude this “may have produced” the substantial increase in deaths.

The paper identified that mortality rates in the UK had declined steadily from 2001 to 2010, but this reversed sharply with the death rate growing again after austerity came in.

From this reversal the authors identified that 45,368 extra deaths occurred between 2010 and 2014, than would have been expected, although it stops short of calling them "avoidable".

Based on those trends it predicted the next five years - from 2015 to 2020 - would account for 152,141 deaths - 100 a day - findings which one of the authors likened to “economic murder”.

The Government began relaxing austerity measures this year announcing the end of its cap on public sector pay rises and announcing an extra £1.3bn for social care in the Spring Budget.

Over three years the additional funding for social care is expected to reach £2bn, which Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said was “patching up a small part of the damage” wrought by £4.6bn cuts.

The study, published in BMJ Open today, estimated that to return death rates to their pre-2010 levels spending would need to increase by £25.3bn.

The Department of Health said “firm conclusions” cannot be drawn from this work, and independent academics warned the funding figures were “speculative”.

However local councils who have been struggling to fund care with slashed budgets urged the Government to consider the research seriously.

Shadow Health Secretary Jonathan Ashworth said the Government must match Labour's spending pledges in the Autumn Budget.

Per capita public health spending between 2001 and 2010 increased by 3.8 per cent a year, but in the first four years of the Coalition, increases were just 0.41 per cent, researchers from University College London found.

In social care the annual budget increase collapsed from 2.20 per cent annually, to a decrease of 1.57 per cent.

The researchers found this coincided with death rates which had decreased by around 0.77 per cent a year to 2010, beginning to increase again by 0.87 per cent a year.

And the majority of those were people reliant on social care, the paper says: “This is most likely because social care experienced greater relative spending constraints than healthcare."

It also notes that a drop in nurse numbers may have accounted for 10 per cent of deaths, concluding: "We have found that spending constraints since 2010, especially public expenditure on social care, may have produced a substantial mortality gap in England.”

The papers’ senior author and a researcher at UCL, Dr Ben Maruthappu, said that while the paper “can’t prove cause and effect” it shows an association.

And he added this trend is seen elsewhere. “When you look at Portugal and other countries that have gone through austerity measures, they have found that health care provision gets worse and health care outcomes get worse,” he told The Independent.

One of his co-author’s, Professor Lawrence King of the Applied Health Research Unit at Cambridge University, said it showed the damage caused by austerity

"It is now very clear that austerity does not promote growth or reduce deficits - it is bad economics, but good class politics," he said. "This study shows it is also a public health disaster. It is not an exaggeration to call it economic murder.”

The Department of Health stressed that no such conclusion could be drawn. A spokesperson said: “As the researchers themselves note, this study cannot be used to draw any firm conclusions about the cause of excess deaths.

“The NHS is treating more people than ever before and funding is at record levels with an £8bn increase by 2020-21. We’ve also backed adult social care with £2bn investment and have 12,700 more doctors and 10,600 more nurses on our wards since May 2010.”

And independent academics added that it is hard to prove cause and effect with this kind of study even if the underlying assumptions may be correct.

Professor Martin Roland Emeritus Professor of Health Services Research, University of Cambridge said: “This study suggests that a change happened to cause deaths to stop declining around 2014. This is likely to be a correct finding. However, the link to health and social care spending is speculative as observational studies of this type can never prove cause and effect."

Cllr Izzi Seccombe, chairman of the Local Government Association’s community wellbeing board, said: “We would urge government to review the evidence behind this analysis. If correct, it would clearly reinforce the desperate and urgent need to properly fund social care

Mr Ashworth, responding to the study, said: “This shocking mortality gap is a damning indictment of the dire impact which sustained Tory cuts to our NHS and social care services have had on health outcomes across the nation.

“Ahead of the Budget, this appalling news must serve as an urgent wake up call to the Prime Minister. She must match Labour’s pledge to deliver an extra £6 billion for our NHS across the next financial year to ensure the best possible quality of care is sustained for years to come.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/tory-austerity-deaths-study-report-people-die-social-care-government-policy-a8057306.html
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1143 on: November 16, 2017, 02:05:50 pm »
This, by Prof. Danny Dorling in the London Review of Books, ties into that latest study. May be of interest. Of course, these sort of studies on public health impacts have become a feature of Tory government over the past 7 years. As have the denials and refusals to investigate or assess impacts.

Quote
For the first time in well over a century the health of people in England and Wales as measured by the most basic feature – life – has stopped improving. Just as Macmillan had done [for the deaths caused by the Great Smog], the government initially tried to blame the figures on flu deaths. But as the years have passed and life expectancy continues to stall it has become clear that flu isn’t the culprit. The most plausible explanation would blame the politics of austerity, which has had an excessive impact on the poor and the elderly; the withdrawal of care support to half a million elderly people that had taken place by 2013; the effect of a million fewer social care visits being carried out every year; the cuts to NHS budgets and its reorganisation as a result of the 2012 Health and Social Care Act; increased rates of bankruptcy and general decline in the quality of care homes; the rise in fuel poverty among the old; cuts to or removal of disability benefits. The stalling of life expectancy was the result of political choice.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,810
  • Trada
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1144 on: November 16, 2017, 03:45:00 pm »
 Matt Thomas‏ @Trickyjabs

Maidenhead voted 65% for Theresa May in #GE2017
Maidenhead schools now asking parents to contribute £190 for basic supplies.
Those 2 schools are due to lose another £89k in annual funding by 2020.
Will those parents still be masochistically voting Conservative come next election?




Theresa May's local school forced to beg parents to pay for pens and glue to combat Tory cuts

Schools in Theresa May's constituency have sent out begging letters to parents for cash to help combat Tory cuts

Theresa May has been accused of making empty promises to properly fund schools after two in her own constituency sent out ­begging letters for basic equipment.

Bosses told parents they were so cash-strapped due to Tory cuts they had no choice but to ask for £190 a year donations for “glue, pens, pencils, ­exercise books, paper, tape, paint”.

The pleas came from Robert Piggott infant and junior schools in Wargrave, Berks – both in the PM’s ­Maidenhead constituency.

The letter blamed “national changes to school funding” for the crisis.

Mrs May has repeatedly bragged of her commitment to ­education, insisting there are now “record levels of funding”.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/schools-theresa-mays-constituency-begging-11529277?service=responsive

« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 03:50:11 pm by Trada »
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline TheShanklyGates

  • Firmly in the "shake it all about" camp
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,842
  • Outside The Shankly Gates...
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1145 on: November 16, 2017, 03:56:09 pm »
Matt Thomas‏ @Trickyjabs

Maidenhead voted 65% for Theresa May in #GE2017
Maidenhead schools now asking parents to contribute £190 for basic supplies.
Those 2 schools are due to lose another £89k in annual funding by 2020.
Will those parents still be masochistically voting Conservative come next election?

I think we all know the answer to this.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1146 on: November 16, 2017, 05:11:46 pm »
Don't know if this has been posted before, but you can search for areas/schools to see the level of cuts that are on their way:

https://schoolcuts.org.uk/#!/

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1147 on: November 17, 2017, 01:18:56 pm »
"We're all in it together" - Gideon

Quote
Disabled people, single parents and women have been among the biggest losers under seven years of austerity, according to a report by the equalities watchdog.

While the poorest tenth of households will on average lose about 10% of their income by 2022 – equivalent to £1 in every £8 of net income – the richest will lose just 1%, or about £1 in every £250 of net income, the study carried out for the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) reveals.

David Isaac, the EHRC’s chairman, said the study showed the poorest households faced a “bleak future”, and called on ministers to review their plans. “The government can’t claim to be working for everyone if its policies actually make the most disadvantaged people in society financially worse off.”

The study modelled the cumulative impact on UK households by 2022 of all tax, social security and public spending policies carried out since 2010, including universal credit, VAT, and the national minimum wage.

It found that because of the regressive nature of the reforms implemented by the coalition and Conservative governments, households in the bottom half of the income scale would lose about £1,500 a year, while the top 20% of households would lose between £200 and £600.

It found that while regressive tax and benefits policies were a mark of both governments since 2010, the impact of policy decisions taken by the two Conservative administrations since 2015 will be to reduce incomes for the poorest, while increasing incomes for the richest 20%.

Quote
The EHRC said the government had consistently refused to carry out a cumulative impact assessment of its policies, preferring to focus on the narrow impact of individual policies, but this study showed that such an exercise was both possible and necessary.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/17/women-and-disabled-austerity-report-tax-benefits-reforms

Cynics would suggest enjoying the class war while it lasts, because the Brexit is going to be terrible.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,810
  • Trada
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1148 on: November 19, 2017, 12:01:15 am »
Landmark study links Tory austerity to 120,000 deaths

Government is accused of 'economic murder'


The Conservatives have been accused of “economic murder” for austerity policies which a new study suggests have caused 120,000 deaths.

But they run with stories by Guido Fawkes without questions.

 Matt Thomas‏ @Trickyjabs

Matt Thomas Retweeted Matt Thomas

BBC were advised not to run "120k austerity deaths" article by the Science Media Centre.
SMC's CEO is Fiona Fox. Who, incidentally, has no scientific qualifications, denied the Rwandan genocide & covers up evidence against GM foods.
In 2013 she was awarded an OBE by the Tories...
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1149 on: November 19, 2017, 12:28:32 am »
But they run with stories by Guido Fawkes without questions.

 Matt Thomas‏ @Trickyjabs

Matt Thomas Retweeted Matt Thomas

BBC were advised not to run "120k austerity deaths" article by the Science Media Centre.
SMC's CEO is Fiona Fox. Who, incidentally, has no scientific qualifications, denied the Rwandan genocide & covers up evidence against GM foods.
In 2013 she was awarded an OBE by the Tories...

I think the issue is really whether the BBC should cover it with appropriate caveats or not. Chasing after Fiona Fox is missing the point. The peer review Science Media Centre are using is here: http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-paper-on-health-and-social-care-spending-and-excess-deaths-in-england/

The senior lecturer and the professor recommend more study to establish causality. Which is perfectly fair really - and it's the one thing the bloody Government have absolutely no interest in doing. That's the point more than anything. There is a large rise in mortality and the government don't give a shit about finding out 'why'. Personally I feel the BBC could cover it as an open question, although I see the difficulty that presents for a small news segment. It's something better suited to a Panorama or extended Newsnight story.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,373
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1150 on: November 19, 2017, 12:37:28 pm »
No unemployed people in the country, according to Hammond.

Offline Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,810
  • Trada
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1151 on: November 19, 2017, 03:53:28 pm »
Something I don't understand they are saying they will give Millions to develop driverless cars in the UK in the budget.

Who do these Millions go to?

I guess it will be to some private own company.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline SP

  • Thor ain't got shit on this dude! Alpheus. SPoogle. The Equusfluminis Of RAWK. Straight in at the deep end with a tube of Vagisil. Needs to get a half-life. Needs a damned good de-frag.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 36,042
  • .
  • Super Title: Southern Pansy
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1152 on: November 19, 2017, 04:21:52 pm »
Something I don't understand they are saying they will give Millions to develop driverless cars in the UK in the budget.

Who do these Millions go to?

I guess it will be to some private own company.

Or to a university department.

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,373
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1153 on: November 19, 2017, 07:15:18 pm »
Something I don't understand they are saying they will give Millions to develop driverless cars in the UK in the budget.

Who do these Millions go to?

I guess it will be to some private own company.

Smacks of some concessions given to motor companies because of Brexit.

Offline classycarra

  • The Left Disonourable Chuntering Member For Scousepool.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,499
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1154 on: November 19, 2017, 09:12:37 pm »
Smacks of some concessions given to motor companies because of Brexit.

Don't imagine the big motor companies would get out of bed for a cumulative 50 million or so.

Is it not just an extension of this?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/winners-of-51-million-government-competition-to-develop-world-leading-self-driving-car-testing-infrastructure-unveiled

Or this

Or to a university department.

Something I don't understand they are saying they will give Millions to develop driverless cars in the UK in the budget.

Who do these Millions go to?

I guess it will be to some private own company.

Would you prefer the government cut investment in small british businesses?

Offline oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,426
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1155 on: November 19, 2017, 09:30:58 pm »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,373
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1156 on: November 19, 2017, 10:18:57 pm »
Don't imagine the big motor companies would get out of bed for a cumulative 50 million or so.

Is it not just an extension of this?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/winners-of-51-million-government-competition-to-develop-world-leading-self-driving-car-testing-infrastructure-unveiled

Or this

Would you prefer the government cut investment in small british businesses?

Could be a host of measures. Newsnight speculated that after May met the Nissan boss that the government greenlighted or progressed some investment into improving and enlarging the electric car infrastructure.

It could have just been coincidence, or the government could be looking to ramp up a host of sweeteners to try to keep the manufacturers on side.

Offline Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,810
  • Trada
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1157 on: November 20, 2017, 12:10:55 am »
Smacks of some concessions given to motor companies because of Brexit.

We all remember the DeLorean deal. thats the last time I remember the government invested in a car of the future and cant remember which party did that. 

Its like the rumored 450 million being given to build electric car charge points around the country.

I imagine that will go to a company that already does it so they will make a profit from tax payers money and then I guess the goverment will stick a tax on it to make up for all the petrol taxes they will lose so we are shafted again using our money.

Unless the government are thinking of loads of publicly owned charge points run not for profit.

Oh no its the Tories.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 12:14:19 am by Trada »
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,373
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1158 on: November 20, 2017, 08:15:57 am »
We all remember the DeLorean deal. thats the last time I remember the government invested in a car of the future and cant remember which party did that. 

Its like the rumored 450 million being given to build electric car charge points around the country.

I imagine that will go to a company that already does it so they will make a profit from tax payers money and then I guess the goverment will stick a tax on it to make up for all the petrol taxes they will lose so we are shafted again using our money.

Unless the government are thinking of loads of publicly owned charge points run not for profit.

Oh no its the Tories.

There needs to be tax on it. It cannot be free.

Offline ShakaHislop

  • Shocktrooper of the Vinny Cable Nasties
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,790
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1159 on: November 20, 2017, 11:39:20 am »
Ofsted inspectors to quiz schoolgirls in hijabs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42046371

What relevance does this have to the quality of teaching at a school? Will they be asking to look at the lunchboxes, or lack of, of girls of all faiths to determine whether they have an eating disorder? At least this will be one "nanny-state" action that will be acceptable to the conservatives who usually froth at the mouth about infringements on their personal liberty/freedom.