Topic: Who is the best pundit? 2021 edition

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Let me offer one rare bird of irritation, hyperbole and arrogance (a West Ham supporter) and a real non-soccer mind --- Thomas Rennie - Sirius XM announcer.

He is to football announcing as Melon Top is to performance art --- an eye sore.  Or in Rennie's case an ear's sore.

[dirkster]

Mike Ingham, Alan Green, Jimmy Armfield and Graham Taylor was a golden age of radio.

Now it's Sutton, Savage and Dion Dublin.

Bryon Butler's commentary was great too

[mikeb58]

Jimmy Armfield was brilliant.  A proper gent with no agenda who loved the game and never went down the 'in my day' route.  Taylor was the same in terms of knowing the game and wanting people to love it too without ever suggesting that you needed to have been there and done it to understand.

For all that people laughed about the mispronunciations, Pleat was the same.  Give me the arl fellas over controversial banter merchants any day.

Yes, spot on. Different era and was a far better one. Today's fellas are just taking the piss and having a laugh half the time, especially when there's a side kick at hand.

Anyone know who does the comms now on Radio Merseyside, don't bother with that station at all now, footy or otherwise, it's gone really downhill.

I think Mike Hughes did most of the games, but I couldn't stand him, he got all worked up and over excited over next to nothing, plus he always sounded upset. Not about the footy match itself, just his voice in general, he sounded the same on non related football stuff!

[slaphead]

Said it before but it's so poor to listen to. When you hear commentators or co commentators talking about twitter or whatever else. How many times during a game now do you hear someone say something about something trending on twitter or someone sent a tweet in saying this or that. There was even someone, Stuart Pearce and someone else, talking about their clothes for a full 5 mins during a game last week and how they would put photos on twitter or somewhere. Watch the bloody game and tell it for what it is !
Forget about your social media for 90 mins for heavens sake

[sinnermichael]

Stephen Warnock's the latest pundit to be absolutely everywhere.

[slaphead]

Stephen Warnock's the latest pundit to be absolutely everywhere.

He is too, him and his massive glasses

[Pistolero]

Yes, spot on. Different era and was a far better one. Today's fellas are just taking the piss and having a laugh half the time, especially when there's a side kick at hand.

Anyone know who does the comms now on Radio Merseyside, don't bother with that station at all now, footy or otherwise, it's gone really downhill.

I think Mike Hughes did most of the games, but I couldn't stand him, he got all worked up and over excited over next to nothing, plus he always sounded upset. Not about the footy match itself, just his voice in general, he sounded the same on non related football stuff!

Tragic what's happened to Radio Merseyside....its been deteriorating steadily for the last couple of years due to cuts to BBC local radio....but its fallen off a cliff in the last few months....presenters and producers axed, schedules all over the place, football/sports coverage decimated, hospital radio standard presenters introduced along with a dreadful bland music policy .....its completey lost its identity which a huge shame as it was the trusted voice of the region and has been for as long as I can remember....not really sure what the fuck it is now?..and the worst thing is, I don't think they do either

[mikeb58]

Tragic what's happened to Radio Merseyside....its been deteriorating steadily for the last couple of years due to cuts to BBC local radio....but its fallen off a cliff in the last few months....presenters and producers axed, schedules all over the place, football/sports coverage decimated, hospital radio standard presenters introduced along with a dreadful bland music policy .....its completey lost its identity which a huge shame as it was the trusted voice of the region and has been for as long as I can remember....not really sure what the fuck it is now?..and the worst thing is, I don't think they do either

Agree mate, they messed around with  it so much it's neither here or there now. I liked Tony Snell on the brekky show, he was half asleep some of the time, loved the occasional moan but was fun in doing so. Then they tried to change him into something he's not, doing serious interviews etc, now he's moved to a later slot.

Paul Salt, was good on the sport in the afternoon, seems like a decent, down to Earth fella too, but they've put him in Snellys place and he's not as listenable now.

The biggest fuck up was to bin the Roger Philips  show, though I'm not sure if he wanted off anyway. His phone in was brilliant, and well loved. They shortened his show, then changed the format, so there was actually less phone in time, it was never the same then, and Roger himself seemed less than happy with the changes.

Fri, Sat and Sun everything changes and some presenters change their time slots or disappear all together!! Helen Jones is far too cosy, can't take to her. Linda Mac is ok, I can see why people like that kind of show, and she does read out loads of my poetry stuff!

But overall, Radio Merseyside tried a revamp and its gone totally downhill ever since.

[Mr Benn please?]

Bryon Butler's commentary was great too

And the late great Peter Jones.

[Pistolero]

Agree mate, they messed around with  it so much it's neither here or there now. I liked Tony Snell on the brekky show, he was half asleep some of the time, loved the occasional moan but was fun in doing so. Then they tried to change him into something he's not, doing serious interviews etc, now he's moved to a later slot.

Paul Salt, was good on the sport in the afternoon, seems like a decent, down to Earth fella too, but they've put him in Snellys place and he's not as listenable now.

The biggest fuck up was to bin the Roger Philips  show, though I'm not sure if he wanted off anyway. His phone in was brilliant, and well loved. They shortened his show, then changed the format, so there was actually less phone in time, it was never the same then, and Roger himself seemed less than happy with the changes.

Fri, Sat and Sun everything changes and some presenters change their time slots or disappear all together!! Helen Jones is far too cosy, can't take to her. Linda Mac is ok, I can see why people like that kind of show, and she does read out loads of my poetry stuff!

But overall, Radio Merseyside tried a revamp and its gone totally downhill ever since.

Spot on with the Roger Phillips shout mate...a tremendous broadcaster, the best phone-in host in the UK bar none...you only have to listen briefly to the torrents of bullshite from both presenters and callers on Talk Radio, 5 Live, LBC and numerous others to realise how difficult it is to host a show the way Roger did..knowledgable, inclusive, humorous, kind, patient but always firm when needed -  ..i didn't listen to his show all the time, but it was still reassuring to know it was there every afternoon and i think he, above all others represented what Radio Merseyside was, and he cemented the bond between the listeners and the station ....it may be coincidental - with other factors contributing to the recent plummet in quality - but it does seem to have gone to pieces since his departure ....

[iamnant]

Not surprisingly since their move to Mancland, BBC Sport is now just one big Mancland love in. No chance whoever wrote this doesn't have a Bacon Face shrine in his bedroom:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55724984/

The 2013/2014 season shows us 6 points off the top, where Arsenal lead for most of that season, and he still titles it "Liverpool let it slip". Wait till your beloved United fuck this one up this season, pal.

[spen71]

Stevie Mac.  Just got the scorer wrong of Burnley

[Crosby Nick]

Stevie Mac.  Just got the scorer wrong of Burnley

He’s not the only commentator to struggle with long names.

[spen71]

He’s not the only commentator to struggle with long names.

Mee or Tarkowoski    Very Similar h aha

[rob1966]

Never heard her commentate, but isn't she the one who said Lampard 'will just be happy with the 3 points'...after Chelsea just beat Luton in The FA Cup!

That's her. Horrible accent, chats utter shit, trots out cliche after cliche.

Used to live listening to football on the radio. Somewhere along the way I found it too never wracking to listen to our games and don’t bother with any others. I have heard to those Dortmund and Barca games of course. I think both times it was Ian Dennis on commentary and to be fair it’s absolutely incredible! Listening to it having seen the goals, his commentary is spot on and the emotion in his voice is really quite something.

Clive Tydsley was brilliant when he worked for Radio City, but fucking hell, he used to give me heart attacks and I was only a kid.

[Machae]

Anyone else hate the 'proper pronunciation' of foreign players names by british commentators. Jonathan Pearce does it a lot and one yesterday in the Everton vs Leicester game (who's name eludes me), kept saying Gomesh, it might be correct, but you only sound like a twat

[redgriffin73]

Anyone else hate the 'proper pronunciation' of foreign players names by british commentators. Jonathan Pearce does it a lot and one yesterday in the Everton vs Leicester game (who's name eludes me), kept saying Gomesh, it might be correct, but you only sound like a twat

Yeah, I put something about it in the PL thread last night, it was Paul Dempsey, he does it all the time and it makes my toes curl, I have to mute him. They're trying to sound clever but it's cringey. I used to work with a guy who would say Barthelona all the time, never did it for any other Spanish word, I wanted to hit him with a brick every time he said it!

[Crosby Nick]

Yeah, I put something about it in the PL thread last night, it was Paul Dempsey, he does it all the time and it makes my toes curl, I have to mute him. They're trying to sound clever but it's cringey. I used to work with a guy who would say Barthelona all the time, never did it for any other Spanish word, I wanted to hit him with a brick every time he said it!

Pick on the guy with a lisp why don’t you. You’re a monster!

[Dim Glas]

Anyone else hate the 'proper pronunciation' of foreign players names by british commentators. Jonathan Pearce does it a lot and one yesterday in the Everton vs Leicester game (who's name eludes me), kept saying Gomesh, it might be correct, but you only sound like a twat

As someone who has a ‘foreign’ (to many) name, it gets really dull when people butcher it and don’t make an effort to pronounce it correctly. So no, I don’t hate it - so long as they aren’t doing it for effect - and therefore still pronouncing it wrong - just in a daft put on accent! 

There’s a commentator called Derek Rae, who is a pretty entertaining and usualy decent commentator, does a lot of Bundesliga games - who ALWAYS pronounces German names very forcefully and very correctly. It’s great, all for it!

[redgriffin73]

Pick on the guy with a lisp why don’t you. You’re a monster!

[J_Kopite]

Anyone else hate the 'proper pronunciation' of foreign players names by british commentators. Jonathan Pearce does it a lot and one yesterday in the Everton vs Leicester game (who's name eludes me), kept saying Gomesh, it might be correct, but you only sound like a twat

Haven't watched it since it happened for obvious reasons, but I could swear the night of the Champions League final in 2012 Clive Tyldsley called Ryan Bertrand "Ryan Berrtronne" as if he was French - that was fucking weird.

[Ghost Town]

As someone who has a ‘foreign’ (to many) name, it gets really dull when people butcher it and don’t make an effort to pronounce it correctly. So no, I don’t hate it - so long as they aren’t doing it for effect - and therefore still pronouncing it wrong - just in a daft put on accent! 

That's the point, though, I think. It's an odd one really, but there seems to be levels to it. It's right to pronounce it properly, but there's no need to use cod foreign accents and intonations. If you're English with an English accent and English phonemes and English intonation then it sounds daft to say just one name using (often an approximation) of non-English phonemes and intonations. At best it sounds like you are trying to be clever and 'authentic', but more likely you just sound daft to everyone, including the player whose name you are mangling.

Basically if you are not used to using certain accents, intonations and phonemes (whether that's non-British or even those from a different part of Britain) then it's better not to try and use them for just odd name here and there. Just say the same properly in your own accent/intonation.

So for example, it's right to pronunce James (Rodriguez) as Hames - I have no truck with anyone who thinks they can say James as in Milner, but there's no need to work up a bolus of phlegm every time

[Kekule]

That's the point, though, I think. It's an odd one really, but there seems to be levels to it. It's right to pronounce it properly, but there's no need to use cod foreign accents and intonations. If you're English with an English accent and English phonemes and English intonation then it sounds daft to say just one name using (often an approximation) of non-English phonemes and intonations. At best it sounds like you are trying to be clever and 'authentic', but more likely you just sound daft to everyone, including the player whose name you are mangling.

Basically if you are not used to using certain accents, intonations and phonemes (whether that's non-British or even those from a different part of Britain) then it's better not to try and use them for just odd name here and there. Just say the same properly in your own accent/intonation.

So for example, it's right to pronunce James (Rodriguez) as Hames - I have no truck with anyone who thinks they can say James as in Milner, but there's no need to work up a bolus of phlegm every time

It's not difficult to pronounce names like Modric as "Modrich".  But the likes of Redknapp, who was his manager and saw him every fucking day, insisted on saying "Modrick". It must have driven him potty.

Then you've still got people making a living out of the game saying stuff like "Jer-ventus" and "A-jacks".

[Crosby Nick]

It's not difficult to pronounce names like Modric as "Modrich".  But the likes of Redknapp, who was his manager and saw him every fucking day, insisted on saying "Modrick". It must have driven him potty.

Then you've still got people making a living out of the game saying stuff like "Jer-ventus" and "A-jacks".

Good point about the mispronunciation of clubs. Although I’d feel a dick talking about Mee-lan.

[Dim Glas]

That's the point, though, I think. It's an odd one really, but there seems to be levels to it. It's right to pronounce it properly, but there's no need to use cod foreign accents and intonations. If you're English with an English accent and English phonemes and English intonation then it sounds daft to say just one name using (often an approximation) of non-English phonemes and intonations. At best it sounds like you are trying to be clever and 'authentic', but more likely you just sound daft to everyone, including the player whose name you are mangling.

Basically if you are not used to using certain accents, intonations and phonemes (whether that's non-British or even those from a different part of Britain) then it's better not to try and use them for just odd name here and there. Just say the same properly in your own accent/intonation.

So for example, it's right to pronunce James (Rodriguez) as Hames - I have no truck with anyone who thinks they can say James as in Milner, but there's no need to work up a bolus of phlegm every time

well thats why I replied, cos it specifically said 'proper pronunciation’ - and that I didnt agree with, players should have their names pronounced properly, it’s bordering on ignorance (or worse - Kamala Harris anyone!), to not pronounce a name correctly.  And it is possible to pronounce a foreign name without having to put on a mock accent. One time it’s tough is if you genuinley can’t say certain letters.

But yes, I totally agree on the accent thing! That’s ridiculous, it should be possible to pronounce a name the correct way without adding a daft fake accent.

Added as an example - it became apparent this season that Evan N'dicka’s name was pronounced incorrectly last season, likely through no fault of the commentators, cos they didn’t know. Now they have been told, a couple are making the effort to pronounce it correctly, which is great to hear, some others - aren’t bothering. I think that’s poor really.

[slaphead]

Anyone else hate the 'proper pronunciation' of foreign players names by british commentators. Jonathan Pearce does it a lot and one yesterday in the Everton vs Leicester game (who's name eludes me), kept saying Gomesh, it might be correct, but you only sound like a twat

You'd have a canary if you heard Steve McLaren commentate mate 

[rob1966]

It's not difficult to pronounce names like Modric as "Modrich".  But the likes of Redknapp, who was his manager and saw him every fucking day, insisted on saying "Modrick". It must have driven him potty.

Then you've still got people making a living out of the game saying stuff like "Jer-ventus" and "A-jacks".

Loads still call Bobby Firmeenioh

[Ghost Town]

well thats why I replied, cos it specifically said 'proper pronunciation’ - and that I didnt agree with, players should have their names pronounced properly, it’s bordering on ignorance (or worse - Kamala Harris anyone!), to not pronounce a name correctly.  And it is possible to pronounce a foreign name without having to put on a mock accent. One time it’s tough is if you genuinley can’t say certain letters.

But yes, I totally agree on the accent thing! That’s ridiculous, it should be possible to pronounce a name the correct way without adding a daft fake accent.

Added as an example - it became apparent this season that Evan N'dicka’s name was pronounced incorrectly last season, likely through no fault of the commentators, cos they didn’t know. Now they have been told, a couple are making the effort to pronounce it correctly, which is great to hear, some others - aren’t bothering. I think that’s poor really.

Yes, sure I was agreeing with you, though I probably used odd wording. I should have just said 'Agreed!' 

[TheMissionary]

The commentators on the Spanish or Italian games on Freesports deliver all the names in the accent of the player, except when the player's eastern European or Russian or some accent he can't do.  I agree the pronunciation has to be right, to a certain extent**, but the accent thing is a total affectation and should be banned.  It happens a lot in American sports.

** I don't think it's necessary to, for instance, pronounce Gomez as Gommeth, or even Hommeth as I heard once.   Or am I just an old non-PC male and pale antique who doesn't understand the modern world?

[Jish]

That's the point, though, I think. It's an odd one really, but there seems to be levels to it. It's right to pronounce it properly, but there's no need to use cod foreign accents and intonations. If you're English with an English accent and English phonemes and English intonation then it sounds daft to say just one name using (often an approximation) of non-English phonemes and intonations. At best it sounds like you are trying to be clever and 'authentic', but more likely you just sound daft to everyone, including the player whose name you are mangling.

Basically if you are not used to using certain accents, intonations and phonemes (whether that's non-British or even those from a different part of Britain) then it's better not to try and use them for just odd name here and there. Just say the same properly in your own accent/intonation.

So for example, it's right to pronunce James (Rodriguez) as Hames - I have no truck with anyone who thinks they can say James as in Milner, but there's no need to work up a bolus of phlegm every time

See Neil Atkinson from The Anfield Wrap and his pronunciation of Tsimikas (Shmeekash).

[Ghost Town]

It's not difficult to pronounce names like Modric as "Modrich".  But the likes of Redknapp, who was his manager and saw him every fucking day, insisted on saying "Modrick". It must have driven him potty.

Then you've still got people making a living out of the game saying stuff like "Jer-ventus" and "A-jacks".

Kevin Keegan used to go down the A-jacks route, if I recall. And Djooventus was also common, as was Reel Madrid, not to forget Bayern Leverkusan.

Steve Wilson unilaterally saying Luis Figoo was also memorable

A strange one was when a few commentators such as Jonathan Pearce kept saying Sane for Mane (and possibly vice versa) in the early days of those two players' tenures. It's like their brains were giving up and saying, "look you're expecting me to voice a terminal e, which is throughouly un-English, so you can't expect me to get the opening consonant correct as well!"

[Ghost Town]

The commentators on the Spanish or Italian games on Freesports deliver all the names in the accent of the player, except when the player's eastern European or Russian or some accent he can't do.  I agree the pronunciation has to be right, to a certain extent**, but the accent thing is a total affectation and should be banned.  It happens a lot in American sports.

** I don't think it's necessary to, for instance, pronounce Gomez as Gommeth, or even Hommeth as I heard once.   Or am I just an old non-PC male and pale antique who doesn't understand the modern world?

No, no you're pretty much correct. Accent, and even dialectical intonation differences, are not intrinsic parts of a pronunciation. I mean, take the Spanish C (before E and I) or Z or LL; they're not even pronounced the same way in all Hispanohablante countries, so what hope has an English speaker? Intonational differences are a normal part of linguistic variation and always have been, It's why Johanns become Johns and so on.

The point is that when it comes to peoples, clubs and organisation's names it's a courtesy to pronounce them correctly, but there's no need to use another nation's ( or even another region's) accent when doing so. Accent and pronunciation are different. Use your own accent, but pronounce it as the person/organisation wants it to be pronounced. Simple.

[voodoo ray]

on a similar note, I don't know if he's asked for it but it does irritate me every time son Son Heung-min is called Heung-min Son.

I'm almost sure the mangling of foreign names has actually got worse. If ruud gullit was around these days I reckon people would be using a hard G on his name.

[Dim Glas]

Yes, sure I was agreeing with you, though I probably used odd wording. I should have just said 'Agreed!' 

 

No worries!

[rob1966]

on a similar note, I don't know if he's asked for it but it does irritate me every time son Son Heung-min is called Heung-min Son.

I'm almost sure the mangling of foreign names has actually got worse. If ruud gullit was around these days I reckon people would be using a hard G on his name.

I'm sure he was initially called Gullett on telly in the early days.

Its not even non UK names pronounced wrong, Brian Moore used to pronounce Souness as Sowness - listen to the comms on the Dalglish goal at Wembley in the 78 European Cup final.

[Buck Pete]

Pick on the guy with a lisp why don’t you. You’re a monster!

[redgriffin73]

Jan Molbu is a good one instead of Molbee, isn't that a kind of correct bastardised pronunctaion of his surname?!

Jan as in Yan too, many used to say it with a hard J!

[Buck Pete]

As someone who has a ‘foreign’ (to many) name, it gets really dull when people butcher it and don’t make an effort to pronounce it correctly. So no, I don’t hate it - so long as they aren’t doing it for effect - and therefore still pronouncing it wrong - just in a daft put on accent! 

There’s a commentator called Derek Rae, who is a pretty entertaining and usualy decent commentator, does a lot of Bundesliga games - who ALWAYS pronounces German names very forcefully and very correctly. It’s great, all for it!

Reminds me of a really old joke me arl fella told me.

German bloke up in court in the UK who also claims he can't speak a word of English.  The judge summons his interpreter and is told he is sick and can't attend court.  A fella in the public gallery stands up and claims he speaks fluent German.  The judge beckons him forward.

The bloke turns to the accused.

"VOT iz your name?"

Along with being a pretty crap joke, would also probably get accused of being Xenophobic or some other bollocks these days.

[voodoo ray]

That's uncle albert from only fools and horses!!

[Dim Glas]

Reminds me of a really old joke me arl fella told me.

German bloke up in court in the UK who also claims he can't speak a word of English.  The judge summons his interpreter and is told he is sick and can't attend court.  A fella in the public gallery stands up and claims he speaks fluent German.  The judge beckons him forward.

The bloke turns to the accused.

"VOT iz your name?"

Along with being a pretty crap joke, would also probably get accused of being Xenophobic or some other bollocks these days.

 

That reminds me of the ‘We are sinking’ German coastguard Berlitz commercial, worth a youtube if you dont’ know what the heck I am going on about!