Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[Black Bull Nova]

The viral load eh. Interesting how that's come out of the ether of late. It's this weeks slogan. And just how much is a smaller viral load as against a bigger viral load ? Who's to say ? Who knows whose got a bigger viral load ? Is my load bigger than your load ?.... I am sitting here with a care worker from a hospice and he's laughing his bollox off at all of this ... Smaller viral load ... my new username. Bollox. Sorry, just completely fed up with this nonsense.

I will admit that it has not featured in the popular media but we were talking about it in April

Anyway, there are folks better than me who can articulate (August 2020)

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30354-4/fulltext

Key extract; "A univariate survival analysis revealed a significant difference in survival probability between those with high viral load and those with low viral load "

And, March 2020
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-questions-about-covid-19-and-viral-load/#:~:text=What%20is%20“viral%20load”%3F,material%2C%20usually%20blood%20or%20plasma.

It's important stuff this because it has implications in Households, regardless of your own infection, if you pass on the infection it can be light touch or heavy touch which has implications for the person infected. Not enough made of this.

[John Higgins]

Hospitalisations continuing to increase, so it seems a fair guess that deaths will trend updwards as well

If your testing is detecting 90% of cases (as ours was until the last week or so) then you can take the positive case numbers, divide by 100-150 and you get the death numbers 4 weeks later. This broadly fits across loads of places but if your testing falls over it goes haywire. Turkey right now doesn’t make sense.

[djahern]

I will admit that it has not featured in the popular media but we were talking about it in April

Anyway, there are folks better than me who can articulate (August 2020)

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30354-4/fulltext

Key extract; "A univariate survival analysis revealed a significant difference in survival probability between those with high viral load and those with low viral load "

And, March 2020
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-questions-about-covid-19-and-viral-load/#:~:text=What%20is%20“viral%20load”%3F,material%2C%20usually%20blood%20or%20plasma.

It's important stuff this because it has implications in Households, regardless of your own infection, if you pass on the infection it can be light touch or heavy touch which has implications for the person infected. Not enough made of this.

Slightly patronising I know (so apologies!) but the terms viral load and infectious dose seem to have become interchangeable in the media recently when they are very different things.

Viral load is the number of virus particles carried and spread by an individual at a particular time - lots of evidence that a higher viral load means a worse outcome and even more likely that the person is more infectious.

Infectious dose (or viral dose) is the viral exposure that initiated the infection. Evidence here too that a higher infectious dose can lead to worse outcomes but there's some contradictory evidence too. Think the original post meant infectious dose rather than viral load.

I think what also still remains to be determined is any relationship between infectious dose and subsequent viral load - if you get infected with a higher dose, do you carry and spread a higher viral load.

[djahern]

Local councils in Greater Manchester being told it's looking like 6 weeks for testing to be sorted out. Hancock would only say today 'weeks'. Would imagine that would be nationally rather than just for them. Obviously a ton of knock on effects if people are having to isolate rather than get a test, especially entering flu season.

That's just not going to cut it really. With cases doubling every 7 days based on latest estimates (which could already be out of date), 6 weeks is a long long time not to have accurate data. They at least need to get it to the point where its a reliable measure again of what's happening in the community - thats got to happen before 6 weeks.

[Zeb]

That's just not going to cut it really. With cases doubling every 7 days based on latest estimates (which could already be out of date), 6 weeks is a long long time not to have accurate data. They at least need to get it to the point where its a reliable measure again of what's happening in the community - thats got to happen before 6 weeks.

I was wondering what had happened but seems like local authorities were flagging up that testing capacity was reached in late August and the extra demand again since has knocked it over? (eg https://www.themj.co.uk/We-must-rapidly-improve-Test-and-Trace/218580 )

[djahern]

I was wondering what had happened but seems like local authorities were flagging up that testing capacity was reached in late August and the extra demand again since has knocked it over? (eg https://www.themj.co.uk/We-must-rapidly-improve-Test-and-Trace/218580 )

There's problems allover really that mean no matter how good you are doing at one thing, it will be knocked over by the things that you're not doing well.

The aims seem simple - test, trace, isolate. Any one of those failing will cause the others to fail eventually. Our testing seems to have been doing pretty well, but it's clear our trace was failing at the national level. If the tracing fails, then the isolation fails and it's only a matter of time before your previously functioning testing also fails as it gets swamped.

The track and trace system should have been overhauled as soon as it was seen that it was working at the local level and not at the national level. Tracing 90% of contacts is hugely impressive, 54% is absolutely pointless continuing with - you're not going to get it to the levels needed in the time you have available. All the resources should have been moved from the national system to the local level. Perhaps then contacts would have been traced quickly, relevant people would have been isolated and the testing system would never have been under the strain it is now.

Of course the doomsday scenario (and we're not there yet) is that failing in one of those three things knocks them all out completely. So the tracing fails, isolating fails, and causes the testing to fail. Then we enter a vicious circle where lack of testing knocks out the tracing completely and round and round we go.

[Lee1-6Liv]

Just wait til colleges go back full time in the next few weeks and there will be even more testing to be carried out. If only the government had time to prepare for it.

[Zeb]

There's problems allover really that mean no matter how good you are doing at one thing, it will be knocked over by the things that you're not doing well.

The aims seem simple - test, trace, isolate. Any one of those failing will cause the others to fail eventually. Our testing seems to have been doing pretty well, but it's clear our trace was failing at the national level. If the tracing fails, then the isolation fails and it's only a matter of time before your previously functioning testing also fails as it gets swamped.

The track and trace system should have been overhauled as soon as it was seen that it was working at the local level and not at the national level. Tracing 90% of contacts is hugely impressive, 54% is absolutely pointless continuing with - you're not going to get it to the levels needed in the time you have available. All the resources should have been moved from the national system to the local level. Perhaps then contacts would have been traced quickly, relevant people would have been isolated and the testing system would never have been under the strain it is now.

Of course the doomsday scenario (and we're not there yet) is that failing in one of those three things knocks them all out completely. So the tracing fails, isolating fails, and causes the testing to fail. Then we enter a vicious circle where lack of testing knocks out the tracing completely and round and round we go.

Ta. Obviously hadn't considered it in terms of feedback loops, as you set out there, with all the focus purely on the testing round here currently. All seems a bit sluggish from Westminster in terms of the practical stuff to even facilitate things to make local lockdowns a little less imperfect. Although being in one of the areas where things have been starting to pick up at pace, and local politicians trying to draw attention to it, may give a slightly distorted sense of that.

[CraigDS]

If your testing is detecting 90% of cases (as ours was until the last week or so) then you can take the positive case numbers, divide by 100-150 and you get the death numbers 4 weeks later. This broadly fits across loads of places but if your testing falls over it goes haywire. Turkey right now doesn’t make sense.

Was it though?

These problems seem a lot longer in the making than just the last week.

[7777]

Something I would add...
A lot of folks have had a test kit sent out and then you post it... but make sure you use the Royal Mail postboxes that have a white sticker on it (I think it say priority box). They are designated to be used for test kits. Once the postman empties that post box he will put any test kits in a sealed bag and then hand it in at office to be sent on its way. If you use any random box, chances are the postman won’t sift through the sack of mail and it will end up being classed as ‘contaminated’ and results be inconclusive...

Can search for your nearest one too

https://www.royalmail.com/priority-postboxes

[Hedley Lamarr]

I know people are frightened and many have families to look after, but as a nation we don't help ourselves at times.  They just had some girl from Bolton on the BBC, she applied for a test to be told they've ran out, she applied again pretending she was an NHS key worker, she got one.  They interviewed her at the testing centre and asked her if she felt guilty.  Nope, not one bit.

Obviously a governmental failure has led to the lack of testing, but this girl has potentially stopped a key NHS worker from working, taken them out of a hospital or treatment centre.

This government are a shambles, but as a country we need to start taking responsibility, wearing masks, social distancing and not bloody taking tests out of the hands of those that need them.  I'm also a bit bewildered that this girl didn't have to show any sort of NHS ID, but I suppose we can pile that on with the other absurdities.

[CraigDS]

Don’t NHS workers get tested internally rather than at a test site? Also, I don’t remember the option when I got tested to specify if I was an NHS worker, is that new?

[Indomitable_Carp]

For all the complaints about the UK testing regime, it is far better then the testing regime here in Spain.

I am not even really sure what the Spanish or regional governments plan of action is here at the moment. People are largely just carrying on with life as normal. Kids are back in school. Many people are back in their offices; terrazas, restaurants and public spaces are full as always etc. Testing and tracing regime is a shit show.

We are the centre of the so-called second wave in Europe. Yet nothing really seems to be happening with it. Aside from having to wear a mask outdoors (and obviously indoors) - unless you are sat on a terrace or the beach - my life is largely normal here. Hospital admissions and deaths remain relatively low, even though it is 6 weeks or more since transmissions started significantly rising again. Most of the doctors in my work haven´t really been talking about it.

So who knows.

[Hedley Lamarr]

Don’t NHS workers get tested internally rather than at a test site? Also, I don’t remember the option when I got tested to specify if I was an NHS worker, is that new?

I have no idea, I'm just going by what this lass told the interviewer.  My sister is a treatment nurse for the NHS and she had to book her own test, but that could of been down to some sort of systematic failure or personal choice.

[TSC]

Chinese company on sky news claiming it can support UK testing capability with a test that returns a result in 30mins.

[So… Howard Philips]

Just wait til colleges go back full time in the next few weeks and there will be even more testing to be carried out. If only the government had time to prepare for it.

That's a churlish response. Just look at how effective the Government's forward planning for A levels was.

A success on every level.

[So… Howard Philips]

Chinese company on sky news claiming it can support UK testing capability with a test that returns a result in 30mins.

They just need to add a Tory grandee or two to their board and they'll be rolling in it.

[RainbowFlick]

Chinese company on sky news claiming it can support UK testing capability with a test that returns a result in 30mins.

Hasn't the Chinese company heard? Only contracts to fellow Tories who have just setup companies will be allowed.

[gazzalfc]

3 more symptoms have been added to our works pre-entry questionnaire today

Have you or anyone in your household had any of the following symptoms in the last 2 weeks.

Fever
Persistent cough
Loss of smell or taste
Headache
Cold/Flu symptoms
Muscle aches

Loads got turned away at the door.

No indication on where this new guidance has come from.

[Jshooters]

3 more symptoms have been added to our works pre-entry questionnaire today

Have you or anyone in your household had any of the following symptoms in the last 2 weeks.

Fever
Persistent cough
Loss of smell or taste
Headache
Cold/Flu symptoms
Muscle aches

Loads got turned away at the door.

No indication on where this new guidance has come from.

This will account for most workers in the coming weeks/months.  And cold symptoms are most definitely not covid symptoms

[7777]

Headache 

I have headaches every day, am on medication for them, have just had a little cold / cough this week

That's nuts and taking risk assessments to the extreme!

[PaulF]

Probably need to see someone about daily headaches. I often wake with one, but it seems to be related to not sleeping comfortably and shoulders/neck ache.

[Elzar]

Fever - No
Persistent cough - No
Loss of smell or taste - No
Headache - Yes
Cold/Flu symptoms - Yes
Muscle aches - Yes

They might as well shut the place down if that's the questions

[classycarra]

They might as well shut the place down if that's the questions

Depending on what kind of workplace it is, that might be the intention.

Or alternatively, the workplace doesn't want people spreading colds and causing worry/upheaval/decisions about self isolation for people who don't need to be physically present at work.

[Welshred]

Headache and muscle aches are two things I get when hungover, easy way out of going to work after I've been on the lash the night before.

[rob1966]

This will account for most workers in the coming weeks/months.  And cold symptoms are most definitely not covid symptoms

This is why i disagree with schools sending kids home and demanding they take a test. Snotty nose, sneezing a cough every 30 minutes or more is a cold.

[Felch Aid]

Not sure this face mask was the right one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54163293

[classycarra]

Not sure this face mask was the right one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54163293

Obligatory public health warning, watch out for salmonella!
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/reptiles-pose-a-risk-of-salmonella-infection

Just learned about the frozen mice route of outbreak the other day. Another to add to a long list of reasons not to own a snake!

[TepidT2O]

This is why i disagree with schools sending kids home and demanding they take a test. Snotty nose, sneezing a cough every 30 minutes or more is a cold.

The elephant in the room....


Swollen toes!?

[rafathegaffa83]

There’s no need for hindsight. They’ve had six months  to prepare.


It’s madness

Yep. This isn't just a UK problem either. It's mad that so many governments worldwide hadn't thought that the reopening of schools, colleges and universities would produce a surge in requests for tests.

[filopastry]

Eli Lilly have some interim data out on their antibody trial

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/lilly-announces-proof-of-concept-data-for-neutralizing-antibody-ly-cov555-in-the-covid-19-outpatient-setting-301131785.html

[7777]

Probably need to see someone about daily headaches. I often wake with one, but it seems to be related to not sleeping comfortably and shoulders/neck ache.

Got degenerative disc disease mate, had artificial lumbar and cervical discs so it's a fall out from the neck damage really. It's essentially referred pain from my SCM muscles being too tight as a result of the ops and other things. I have physio and acupuncture when it gets too much but in general is managed through pain medication

[Zeb]

The elephant in the room....


Swollen toes!?

I've seen that one mentioned before, as well as a kind of rash associated with having it. Think it was related to the Zoe app trying to find other distinctive symptoms they could use.

----

Related to some of the discussion of trying to improve how we're better able to try and contain this thing at the moment is Greater Manchester's proposals to the government today. They want to be able to use the police and firefighters to help with contact tracing the half of people who aren't picked up by the national system (about 2000 people a week across Greater Manchester currently). They also want to be able to use a fund which gives loans to businesses to provide financial support for people isolating. And they also want funding for childcare provision. On top of that, greater control of local track and tracing and being able to prioritise areas for testing.

Seems to be sensible on its own merits given government not addressing some of those things adequately at all. But it's all a bit desperate.

[idontknow]

The elephant in the room....


Swollen toes!?

I heard that one some time ago, but it went quiet.

Is the cough still the persistent very distinctive one that was being posted by doctors etc online about April time, do you know?
I ask it was significantly different from a 'normal' cold, flu cough.

[rob1966]

I've seen that one mentioned before, as well as a kind of rash associated with having it. Think it was related to the Zoe app trying to find other distinctive symptoms they could use.

----

Related to some of the discussion of trying to improve how we're better able to try and contain this thing at the moment is Greater Manchester's proposals to the government today. They want to be able to use the police and firefighters to help with contact tracing the half of people who aren't picked up by the national system (about 2000 people a week across Greater Manchester currently). They also want to be able to use a fund which gives loans to businesses to provide financial support for people isolating. And they also want funding for childcare provision. On top of that, greater control of local track and tracing and being able to prioritise areas for testing.

Seems to be sensible on its own merits given government not addressing some of those things adequately at all. But it's all a bit desperate.

We've not got enough Police in Greater Manchester to deal with the job they are employed to do, ie fight crime, due to the cuts these c*nts have been making for the past 10 years

[So… Howard Philips]

I've seen that one mentioned before, as well as a kind of rash associated with having it. Think it was related to the Zoe app trying to find other distinctive symptoms they could use.

----

Related to some of the discussion of trying to improve how we're better able to try and contain this thing at the moment is Greater Manchester's proposals to the government today. They want to be able to use the police and firefighters to help with contact tracing the half of people who aren't picked up by the national system (about 2000 people a week across Greater Manchester currently). They also want to be able to use a fund which gives loans to businesses to provide financial support for people isolating. And they also want funding for childcare provision. On top of that, greater control of local track and tracing and being able to prioritise areas for testing.

Seems to be sensible on its own merits given government not addressing some of those things adequately at all. But it's all a bit desperate.

Local authorities need more involvement. How many staff employed by Councils e.g Community charge, Housing Benefits etc know their area intimately and are used to explaing detail and communicating with the public who could help out?

A sheer ack of imagination just to enable the likes of Serco to profiteer from a dire situation.

[CraigDS]

The elephant in the room....


Swollen toes!?

Especially linked to kids that one, I think.

[Zeb]

We've not got enough Police in Greater Manchester to deal with the job they are employed to do, ie fight crime, due to the cuts these c*nts have been making for the past 10 years

Yeah, and fire service has its own tale to tell as well. Bev Craig and Burnham have just been saying GMP have been called out to 350 house parties over the weekend which is a bit mad. Idea is this is a temporary measure to cover the holes from the national system while it may still be a useful thing to do. They're also floating the idea of what would effectively be local curfews with everything in an area getting shut down early of an evening.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Especially linked to kids that one, I think.

And, colloquially referred to as 'COVID toe' (it can, apparently, affect fingers too). It was in the news a fair bit several months ago. Seems to be something to it.

[rob1966]

Yeah, and fire service has its own tale to tell as well. Bev Craig and Burnham have just been saying GMP have been called out to 350 house parties recently which is a bit mad. Idea is this is a temporary measure to cover the holes from the national system while it may still be a useful thing to do. They're also floating the idea of what would effectively be local curfews with everything in an area getting shut down early of an evening.

Mate of mine left Bedforshire Brigade because he'd had enough of the shit, firefighters are rightly pissed off.

We're all suffering in Gtr Manc due to these dickheads, its pricks in the likes of Salford, Bolton and Oldham who are causing this issue for over 240,000 people, the vast majority of who are being sensible. We're all going out by us, social distancing is being adhered to by nearly everyone, masks being worn by everyone from schoolkids to pensioners, the odd meatheaded c*nt thinks it doesn't apply to them, yet we'll suffer for these selfish pricks.