Topic: Nat Phillips

[Fordy]

Where is his legs?

In the air.

[Welshred]

I'll never understand some people's insistence in knocking Liverpool player's who give it their all when putting on the shirt.

To be fair I didn't realise that saying hopefully we never see him again because that means 4 superior centre backs to him remain fit was such a controversial thing to say.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I'll never understand some people's insistence in knocking Liverpool player's who give it their all when putting on the shirt.

Don't think Welsh was knocking him, but stating what really would be the case if everyone is ready to go, Phillips shouldn't be playing, and if he is, again, consistently, we aren't going to challenge for the top trophies

He gave his all and did the best he could during our run in and contributed, but we are not aiming to get into the top 4 alone, we are trying to win the league and or the CL.

[phil236849]

I have to say I am with dangerscouse, it doesn’t seem a great way to show respect to someone who held us together. It’s like OGS only trusting his superstars and hoping he can play them forever more when half of them will be burnt out next season. Football is getting ever more congested in its workload and it’s more now than ever about making the most of resources.  If we applied the hopefully we won’t have to rely on them test, we don’t value the moments of magic from the lesser lights, from origi to smicer to traore to Alan Kennedy to avi Cohen to mellor etc etc. We have never been a galactico club and we should always have room for cheap upcoming players, unless and until there is an offer which works for everyone

[Wilmo]

To be fair I didn't realise that saying hopefully we never see him again because that means 4 superior centre backs to him remain fit was such a controversial thing to say.

I hope we never see Van Dijk again because we'll sign and train 4 better centre-backs than him.

[Welshred]

I hope we never see Van Dijk again because we'll sign and train 4 better centre-backs than him.

If we were able to do that then fine but you can't be comparing not seeing the best centre back in the world to not seeing Nat Phillips again surely?

[Black Bull Nova]

Are we still at it in here.

Great season, fantastic contribution, made the difference between the CL and Europa Conference. First choices are back next year, you'll get some game time.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Are we still at it in here.

Great season, fantastic contribution, made the difference between the CL and Europa Conference. First choices are back next year, you'll get some game time.

He'd get the same game time he got before the injury crisis this year, which is none.

[Black Bull Nova]

He'd get the same game time he got before the injury crisis this year, which is none.

He'll get the odd game (like he did before, FAC, LC, CL dead rubbers if we get them) and sit on the bench when we have the inevitable injuries to Matip and Gomez.

Might even get on as an emergency Centre forward if we are desperate and learn how to cross the ball and take corners.

[him_15]

Love his physical presence. Much better at dealing with set pieces with him on the pitch.

[Eeyore]

Love his physical presence. Much better at dealing with set pieces with him on the pitch.

The thing is Rhys Williams wins a far higher percentage of headers than Nat Phillips does.

[phil236849]

The thing is Rhys Williams wins a far higher percentage of headers than Nat Phillips does.

Danger of stats.  Nat is clearly more aggressive to the eye.  Just like Trent trying the difficult passes.  His successful pass rate is lower as a consequence. 

[El Lobo]

Danger of stats.  Nat is clearly more aggressive to the eye.  Just like Trent trying the difficult passes.  His successful pass rate is lower as a consequence.

They both played a relatively small amount of football last season too, its a very small amount of games to really take any stats particularly seriously.

[Eeyore]

Danger of stats.  Nat is clearly more aggressive to the eye.  Just like Trent trying the difficult passes.  His successful pass rate is lower as a consequence. 

I am not sure that is true.

Nat may be more aggressive but for me Rhys wins a lot more clean headers. Likewise Rhys attacks the ball better in the opposition area.

[Peabee]

Danger of stats.  Nat is clearly more aggressive to the eye.  Just like Trent trying the difficult passes.  His successful pass rate is lower as a consequence.

You mean the danger of the lack of knowledge to make inferences from stats/data. There's not enough info in individual event data. You've provided a good example. Stats are also woefully misused as people tend to cherry pick event metrics to suit their narrative.

[Eeyore]

You mean the danger of the lack of knowledge to make inferences from stats/data. There's not enough info in individual event data. You've provided a good example. Stats are also woefully misused as people tend to cherry pick event metrics to suit their narrative.

It should always be the other way around. Stats should be used to back up what you see.

A good example was Rhys Williams League debut when he was totally dominant in the air against Kane.

That was backed up by the stats.

The Liverpool youngster was dominant in the air against Tottenham.

Here are the numbers from Rhys Williams's composed Premier League debut:

    Aerial duels won - 6
    Aerial success rate - 100%
    Clearances - 3
    Interceptions - 3
    Passes - 78
    Key Pass - 1

Williams was excellent barring a short spell in the second half, doing his best to contain the threat of the dangerous Kane and Son.

A performance of that quality against a top Spurs side has seen him become a serious option for the coming run of fixtures.

[El Lobo]

Solid argument that Al, use a single game in response to someone saying you shouldn't cherry pick

[No666]

Seems we're sending Sepp vdB out on loan to PNE again, so if we sell Phillips - and his comments suggest he'd want to go if he's not getting game time - and loan out Williams, we really are relying on the back four staying fit. However, if Welshred is sanguine on that front, who am I to bring my 20-21 induced paranoia to the thread?

Anyone watched Sepp playing wing back for PNE? Could he provide cover for both Trent and the centre backs within a year or so?

[Americano12345]

Burnley rumored to be after him

[davidlpool1982]

Have to remember this isn't just the club's decision. This window might literally be the only time he holds some of the cards when it comes to a transfer and contract demands. I don't think he'll play as often next year and out of sight, out of mind is huge in football. If he gets the chance, he could secure his future financially with a 3 year deal at a lower premier League club who will pay him more than the £5K I heard rumoured he's on with us.

[daggerdoo]

It would be great to see Nat performing week in week out for another prem team. More than deserves a first team place imo, and the financial rewards that come with it. I'll be tuning in to watch, whichever team it is

[Jookie]

he could secure his future financially with a 3 year deal at a lower premier League club who will pay him more than the £5K I heard rumoured he's on with us.

If he goes for 10-15M then what's he likely to be able to demand as a wage? 25k p/w? Maybe from there up to 40k p/w?

If so, that's worth 5-8M over a 4 year deal. That sets Phillips up for life financially but also gives him a better chance of regular 1st team PL football. That in turn gives him a better chance of getting a 2nd contract at PL level or even Championship level (if it doesn't go so well). Sporting wise there are some advantages too with regards to playing time and development.

I'd like Phillips to stay as 5th choice option. I reckon the club wouldn't;t mind that either. However, I can understand why he might want to move this summer from a financial and sporting perspective.

[ConqueredAllOfEurope]

I would love to keep Nat as a 4/5th choice CB but rightly so, his performances last season have been noticed by other Premier League clubs and he deserves the chance to play regular first team football. If we can get the £15m that James Pearce mentioned, I think that's amazing value.

[kloppismydad]

I hope, and I'm certain, that any decision that the club/Jurgen take will be keeping Nat's best interests in mind - footballing-wise and financially. If there's a substantial offer that comes in for him with a significant bump in wages, Jurgen will not stand in his way if that's the path Phillips wants to pursue.

[Too early for flapjacks?]

He'll be 25 next season so it makes sense from both sides that he moves on somewhere he plays regular football and get a decent first team contract that sets him up for life. We should keep R Williams as 5th choice rather than loan him out.

[BassTunedToRed]

Keep him until January. His value won't plummet in the meantime and he'll likely play a fair bit too. No rush.

[jackh]

Keep him until January. His value won't plummet in the meantime and he'll likely play a fair bit too. No rush.

Alternatively, sell him & allow him to move on for more regular first-team football - use the fee to fund a move for Ozan Kabak and loan him out in January if everyone's fit & well, whilst considering him the long-term replacement for Joel Matip.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Keep him until January. His value won't plummet in the meantime and he'll likely play a fair bit too. No rush.

How is he likely to play a fair bit out of curiosity? If all of our centerbacks are ready to go by the start of the season, which they're on course to do so, when is he going to play?

[CraigDS]

Keep him until January. His value won't plummet in the meantime and he'll likely play a fair bit too. No rush.

I mean if VVD, Gomez and Matip are all back for pre-season, which seems likely, then along with Konate they'd all get minutes before Philips imo. So can't see where his minutes come from.

If we're wanting to sell then his value won't be higher than now and prob best for everyone we try and get a deal done.

[67CherryRed]

I mean if VVD, Gomez and Matip are all back for pre-season, which seems likely, then along with Konate they'd all get minutes before Philips imo. So can't see where his minutes come from.

They'll be back but it's very very likely they'll pick up knocks, and on the back of the injuries it's unlikely we'll patch them up and wheel them back out. I can see them all being eased back in to the team, we can't expect 40/50 games from any of them.

[Jookie]

They'll be back but it's very very likely they'll pick up knocks, and on the back of the injuries it's unlikely we'll patch them up and wheel them back out. I can see them all being eased back in to the team, we can't expect 40/50 games from any of them.

I'd keep Phillips as an insurance policy until January.

But if we place 55 games next season, for example, we need to find 110 starts for the centre back position. Even if VVD, Matip, Gomez and Konate only start 25 games each, as a very conservative estimate, then there's only 10 other centre back starts available.

Like you I suspect we may need that 5th option more in the 1st half of the season, as the 3 players recovering from long term injuries are eased back in. That's why waiting until January makes sense to the club. Though to the player it may be the case of striking whilst the iron is hot and getting his move now when interest in him is high.

[CraigDS]

They'll be back but it's very very likely they'll pick up knocks, and on the back of the injuries it's unlikely we'll patch them up and wheel them back out. I can see them all being eased back in to the team, we can't expect 40/50 games from any of them.

There will be 3 for 1 position though (assuming Konate stays fit). With a couple of options for the odd game if a rest is needed.

[xbugawugax]

we have vvd, gomez,matip and konate for next season that is if phillips and williams are sold or loaned out

anyone fancy koumetio as a back up to those four or is he not ready yet.

I'd keep Phillips as an insurance policy until January.

But if we place 55 games next season, for example, we need to find 110 starts for the centre back position. Even if VVD, Matip, Gomez and Konate only start 25 games each, as a very conservative estimate, then there's only 10 other centre back starts available.

Like you I suspect we may need that 5th option more in the 1st half of the season, as the 3 players recovering from long term injuries are eased back in. That's why waiting until January makes sense to the club. Though to the player it may be the case of striking whilst the iron is hot and getting his move now when interest in him is high.

could williams be the insurance policy you feel is adequate?

[Jookie]

we have vvd, gomez,matip and konate for next season that is if phillips and williams are sold or loaned out

anyone fancy koumetio as a back up to those four or is he not ready yet.

could williams be the insurance policy you feel is adequate?

Personally I think Koumetio and Rhys Williams' development would benefit from game time at U23 level or at League Two/League One/Championship level next season. I think if Rhys Williams was going out on loan you'd want him to go to a top end League One side or a Championship side where he'd play week in, week out. Koumetio probably League One or even League Two to get that experience of playing competitively. Equally a year in the U23s may benefit Koumetio.

I think Rhys Williams could do a job for the odd game in the 1st team. I think if he stays in the U23s he'd be someone you'd want to get game time in the domestic cups if possible. What may not be of benefit is Rhys Williams not playing U23 because he's in the running for the match day squad for half of the season. I'd rather avoid a situation similar to someone like Neco Williams last season, where they don't play U23 football but you also don't play much 1st team football either. Not sure that would be beneficial to Rhys Williams at this point.

Koumetio looks a bit further back in his development than Rhys Williams. Maybe U23s up until January and then explore the potential for a suitable loan.

That why for me, if we want a 5th choice insurance policy for centre back then Phillips is the best man for the job and then reassess in January. If not Phillips, then I think it needs to be Williams or we go out and use the Phillips fee to buy someone like Kabak.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Been given a new deal

[newterp]

Been given a new deal

To sell when the market returns - presumably?

[Samie]

New 4 year deal.

I think he'll be gone next summer and this was to keep whatever value he still has left by then.

[killer-heels]

How long did he have left on his previous contract?

[Caston]

How long did he have left on his previous contract?

2 years

[Fromola]

To sell when the market returns - presumably?

I'm guessing it's to be fair to the player who was probably on a very low wage now he's not going. He could have left for another club and got a decent wage but nobody met the asking price.