Author Topic: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?  (Read 33447 times)

Offline rednich85

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #200 on: May 24, 2012, 07:24:28 pm »
Gerard gave you your first taste of success, I always had you down as an auld c*nt.

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Offline Cormack Snr

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #201 on: May 24, 2012, 07:25:37 pm »
Out of interest does anybody think that Shankly takes any credit for us winning the European Cup in 1977?

I do. Be clear, I'm not comparing Houllier to Shankly in any way shape or form, but I am saying that Houllier turned the proffessional outlook of the club, signed players of the calibre of Hamman, Hyppia and Finnan (and OK Baros, Traore & Cisse), also gave the likes of Gerrard his head and by any measure helped develop Jamie Carragher.



Yes Rafa Benitez deserves every credit in the world for winning the European Cup with what he had at his disposal but Gerard did play a role, however minor you may feel that was, in building the platform from which it was won.

Shankly left three years before the 1977 win so it's very hard to give even the great man much of the credit while Rafa worked wonders with mostly Houliers team of nine players apart from Garcia and Alonso.

Offline thereader

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #202 on: May 24, 2012, 07:31:54 pm »
That was absurd. It was almost as though nobody had the heart to tell Roy Evans that we wanted to bring in a new manager.
Sounds like a bit of constructive dismissal went on there.

Offline zimmie'5555

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #203 on: May 24, 2012, 07:36:40 pm »
Sounds like a bit of constructive dismissal went on there.

It was all very strange. Houllier had been strongly linked with a couple of other English clubs, in fact I think it was assumed he was going to be the new manager of Sheffield Wednesday before he came here. At first, Liverpool announced that he'd be joining the coaching staff but didn't say in what capacity. It was only when he turned up at his press conference that it was announced he'd be joint manager with Evans. Pretty sure that was Peter Robinson's last act as Chief Executive too,.

Offline didi shamone

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #204 on: May 24, 2012, 08:44:08 pm »
Utter respect for the man, obviously it went a bit pear shaped towards the end, it does for most managers that's why they all move on.

The treble season was fantastic, can't see such an achievement again being made in a hurry by any prem team.

Trophy wise he it could a long while before an LFC manager tops his haul, that's the sort of legacy he rightly deserves in my opinion.

And yes, he does deserve some credit for the C/L win, he got us into the competition in the first place and 8 of his signings started the final.

If people that can't see past their total worship of Benitez to accept that....then that's their problem.

And some people cant see past their total worship of Houllier enough to accept that in fact it was 7 of his signings that started the CL final. ;)

Offline GBF

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #205 on: May 24, 2012, 08:49:04 pm »
Ged is ace for what he has done for the club and almost lost his life, he is up there with the liverpool great managers
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #206 on: May 24, 2012, 09:28:10 pm »
I think it was a diplomatic thing with Roy didn't want to sack him and appoint this guy from France with no connection to the bootroom so this gave us chance to see what GED was about first and then less uproar when Roy went at least that is how I viewed it then and now
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Offline And Could He Play

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #207 on: May 24, 2012, 09:29:35 pm »
biggest mistake he made, and one of our clubs biggest was Diouf for Anelka.
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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #208 on: May 24, 2012, 09:34:11 pm »
Love Ged. After 2005, the 2001 season is the happiest I have ever been as a football fan. Was my first real taste of success. Incredible season that was and it got us back to winning. Ged gave us European nights again in the European Cup and he built the foundation that Rafa built upon to take us further and win the biggest most prestigous trophy in club football.  It was the right time for Ged to go though as he was never the same after his illness. He spunked millions on mediocre players (sound familiar) and we needed a change.

For all the complaining about his last season, the reality is though, he left us a club in the top 4 with Champions League football. We are so far behind today from where Ged left us. Club legend who should be up there on the banners alongside Shankly, Paisley, Fagan, Kenny and Rafa as he played a huge part in our progression as a club.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 09:37:07 pm by LFC_4_life »

Offline Illmatic

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #209 on: May 24, 2012, 09:57:20 pm »
That was absurd. It was almost as though nobody had the heart to tell Roy Evans that we wanted to bring in a new manager.

Including Houllier himself. If I remember correctly he said that he would only accept a role if Roy stayed. It is just bizarre just shows how poorly we run as a club in those days.
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Offline Dirk18Kuyt

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #210 on: May 24, 2012, 10:05:12 pm »
Brought back success and brought in some amazing players. But also brought in some awful ones, like Diouf instead of signing Anelka permanently and passing up the chance of signing Cristiano Ronaldo, 'Because we had Harry Kewell'...  :o

But his team I have fond memories of as a kid, brilliant side in that treble season.

Offline zimmie'5555

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #211 on: May 24, 2012, 11:49:45 pm »
Including Houllier himself. If I remember correctly he said that he would only accept a role if Roy stayed. It is just bizarre just shows how poorly we run as a club in those days.


I think you're right about Houllier insisting on Evans staying. A conspiracy theorist might suggest that he wanted him to stay because he knew that he would want to change a lot of things and knew there would be a season or two of adjustment and that we wouldn't be challenging for anything during that time, so a fall guy was needed while he tried to put his plans in place. A romantic might suggest that he was showing great respect to a great servant of the club. The truth is probably in between somewhere.



Brought back success and brought in some amazing players. But also brought in some awful ones, like Diouf instead of signing Anelka permanently and passing up the chance of signing Cristiano Ronaldo, 'Because we had Harry Kewell'...  :o[size=78%]
[/size]


I think we didn't go in for Ronaldo because Man Utd pretty much blew us out of the water with their bid (we were offering 5m or so and they suddenly came in with a bid of 12/13m). Plus they had a tie-in of some sort with Sporting at the time, so they were always going to be favourites to sign him. I doubt he would have been as successful here in any case, the first couple of seasons at Man Utd were very difficult for him and he got a lot of criticism, I doubt Houllier would have had as much patience as Ferguson and he certainly wouldn't have afforded him the same amount of freedom.

Offline grahamlfc

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #212 on: May 25, 2012, 01:15:19 am »
He was a great manager for LFC and will ALWAYS be remembered for instilling discipline in to the club and kicking out the "spice boys" like James, McManaman, Ince and the appalling Ruddock amongst others.  Sussed them all out and shifted them on forthwith.  Took the reigns from Roy Evans in November 1998 and within 2 seasons had won a treble.  Outstanding. Thanks Gerard for all the great times.
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Offline victorcwh

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #213 on: May 25, 2012, 01:29:45 am »
I don't like Houllier, he killed our tradition "Pass and Move".
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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #214 on: May 25, 2012, 02:27:38 am »
A lot to with his successor, Rafa who was more successful than him.

So if your successor is better than the predecessor, then successor clearly gets a lot of praise. Just like how Kenny got from making Liverpool finish 8th.

Offline Outer Mongolian Red

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #215 on: May 25, 2012, 02:30:55 am »
A more important topic should be why doesnt rafa get the credit or aclaim he deserves-.
Are you having a laugh? If anything he's overpraised.

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #216 on: May 25, 2012, 02:33:16 am »
A lot to with his successor, Rafa who was more successful than him.

So if your successor is better than the predecessor, then successor clearly gets a lot of praise. Just like how Kenny got from making Liverpool finish 8th.

Lock the thread the clowns in town.

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #217 on: May 25, 2012, 02:53:56 am »
There's another thread about The Liverpool Way on here, and for me one of the things that certainly is not the Liverpool Way is kicking a previous manager when he's down to make yourself look good. Both Houllier and Hodgson were guilty of doing that. When Rafa took over Ged he made no mention of some of the dross he'd been left in fact saying he was happy with the squad. He just quietly went about building the team, while trying to offload Diouf, Diao, Medjani and Cheyrou. He spoke about his scouts at Valencia saying if he'd bought Cisse then he'd have won La Liga back to back. Hodgson used a squad consisting of Reina, Cavalieri, Agger, Skrtel, Carragher, Krygiakos Johnson, Insua, Lucas, Gerrard, Mascherano, Aquilani, Babel, Maxi, Ngog, Kuyt and Torres as a stick to beat Rafa with, firstly in a how do you finish 7th with Torres and Gerrard (same stick Ged used to beat Rafa with) then in complete contradiction claiming when things were going bad that "no other manager could expect to do any better with this squad". Yet when Kenny came in he claimed it was the best squad he'd inherited since he last took over Liverpool. That's a squad consisting of Jones, Wilson, Konchesky, Poulsen and Cole.

There's the difference between the four managers (2 have class, 2 lack it).
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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #218 on: May 25, 2012, 03:49:33 am »
Including Houllier himself. If I remember correctly he said that he would only accept a role if Roy stayed. It is just bizarre just shows how poorly we run as a club in those days.

The fact that ged himself only knew he was being sacked from local journos shows how piss poor te club was making decisions in the moore/parry era. They had him in to tell them his plans for the 04-05 season despite already approaching rafa for te job.
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Offline kenworthy

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #219 on: May 25, 2012, 04:07:50 am »
I think its just a matter of timing and trophies. Yes, he is generally overlooked.
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Offline Ikki.Fenikkusu

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #220 on: May 25, 2012, 05:34:21 am »
Mediocrity like Didi coming on at half time you mean?

 Nobody said it wasnt Rafa's team but some of you need reinvent history to defend Rafa when nobody attacked him!  It was his team, but some of his team were signed by Ged as it is with every manager since the game began, what is the problem with that statement?

 Sometimes I despair at this cult attitude towards Rafa in here, you are doing him no favours at all with this worship of him above all else within the club and its history!

You're ridiculous. And yes, somebody did attack him: it was GED. If Rafa took Leeds to the premier then onto the CL title does that mean the coach who assembled the players he inherited deserves credit? Not really. When Rafa took over the team and had a meeting with the players, they were filling in Benitez on just how bad they considered themselves. That he took them to 2 CL finals, winning one, is unbelievable.

You want credit? You should win with the team that you love to tout that you built. GED couldn't do what Rafa did, he simply isn't on that level. He was a good coach and had success in 01. There isn't much else to say.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 05:36:06 am by Ikki.Fenikkusu »

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #221 on: May 25, 2012, 07:04:37 am »
Thommo, ged and robbie will all tell you a different story about that. I dont know who to belive.

Who knows, but the mind boggles when you play Diouf over Fowler.
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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #222 on: May 25, 2012, 07:50:03 am »
Who knows, but the mind boggles when you play Diouf over Fowler.

Erm... he didn't. Fowler had long gone by the time Diouf arrived.
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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #223 on: May 25, 2012, 08:17:16 am »
Erm... he didn't. Fowler had long gone by the time Diouf arrived.

Apologies. He was the one to replace Robbie.
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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #224 on: May 25, 2012, 08:20:30 am »
Apologies. He was the one to replace Robbie.

Via Anelka :P
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Offline TSC

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #225 on: May 25, 2012, 08:38:30 am »
Including Houllier himself. If I remember correctly he said that he would only accept a role if Roy stayed. It is just bizarre just shows how poorly we run as a club in those days.

And yet it could be argued those days seem like halcyon days compared to how we're run now.

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #226 on: May 25, 2012, 09:41:15 am »
Utter respect for the man, obviously it went a bit pear shaped towards the end, it does for most managers that's why they all move on.

The treble season was fantastic, can't see such an achievement again being made in a hurry by any prem team.

Trophy wise he it could a long while before an LFC manager tops his haul, that's the sort of legacy he rightly deserves in my opinion.

And yes, he does deserve some credit for the C/L win, he got us into the competition in the first place and 8 of his signings started the final.

If people that can't see past their total worship of Benitez to accept that....then that's their problem.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #227 on: May 25, 2012, 09:47:55 am »
You're ridiculous. And yes, somebody did attack him: it was GED. If Rafa took Leeds to the premier then onto the CL title does that mean the coach who assembled the players he inherited deserves credit? Not really. When Rafa took over the team and had a meeting with the players, they were filling in Benitez on just how bad they considered themselves. That he took them to 2 CL finals, winning one, is unbelievable.

You want credit? You should win with the team that you love to tout that you built. GED couldn't do what Rafa did, he simply isn't on that level. He was a good coach and had success in 01. There isn't much else to say.

And another Rafa Acolyte invades the thread give it a rest and support the club and not just one ex manager, unless you only started after 2005?
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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #228 on: May 25, 2012, 10:03:28 am »
The reality is, the team that Ged left behind, was good enough to win the Champions League. Ged was no longer the right man to manage the team he assembled, which is where Rafa stepped in. Houllier deserves credit for laying the foundation for Rafa to go on and do what he did and win the CL and Fa Cup and reach a Carling Cup final though it was Rafa managerial brlliance that guided us there.

In 05, the team was 75% Houllier's players and in 06, it was 50% Houlliers players. Houllier layed that foundation so he deserves some credit for what the player he brought in went on to achieve.

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #229 on: May 25, 2012, 10:08:39 am »
You're ridiculous. And yes, somebody did attack him: it was GED. If Rafa took Leeds to the premier then onto the CL title does that mean the coach who assembled the players he inherited deserves credit? Not really. When Rafa took over the team and had a meeting with the players, they were filling in Benitez on just how bad they considered themselves. That he took them to 2 CL finals, winning one, is unbelievable.

You want credit? You should win with the team that you love to tout that you built. GED couldn't do what Rafa did, he simply isn't on that level. He was a good coach and had success in 01. There isn't much else to say.

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Offline ricflairandy

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #230 on: May 25, 2012, 10:25:16 am »
Are you having a laugh? If anything he's overpraised.

How is he overpraised. The media throw around the notion that hes this clown who has no idea and spends billions. Some of our fans swallowed it. The fact is far from the truth and he did more for our club than anyone  in 20 years. He fought for us fans when he could have walked into the madrid job. He burned his bridges with his hometown club in order to stay and fight for us.

Ill never forget 2007, we where all happy as anything, cl final, new owners who where telling us what we wanted to hear. Rafa told us the truth, lesser men may have just let them pull the wool over our eyes and just think about his paycheck. If it wasnt for that nights press conference, we may not have found out about the owners lies for a while longer.

Yet for some in the media hes not fit to lace arry or fat sams boots. And like i say, some of our tosser fans swallowed that.
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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #231 on: May 25, 2012, 10:26:17 am »
The reality is, the team that Ged left behind, was good enough to win the Champions League. Ged was no longer the right man to manage the team he assembled, which is where Rafa stepped in. Houllier deserves credit for laying the foundation for Rafa to go on and do what he did and win the CL and Fa Cup and reach a Carling Cup final though it was Rafa managerial brlliance that guided us there.

In 05, the team was 75% Houllier's players and in 06, it was 50% Houlliers players. Houllier layed that foundation so he deserves some credit for what the player he brought in went on to achieve.

No it wasnt good enough. It took a tactical genius to win it, and a huge slice of luck and fate. Some of the players in that team would never in a million years have been good enough for a cl final.
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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #232 on: May 25, 2012, 10:34:19 am »
No it wasnt good enough. It took a tactical genius to win it, and a huge slice of luck and fate. Some of the players in that team would never in a million years have been good enough for a cl final.

The fact that they won the CL means that the players where good enough to do so. They were able  to  follow and execute a tactical plan. Rafa's tactical brilliance was a huge part, but the players executed it on the pitch. After 06, when Rafa pretty much had all the players of his choice, we never won another trophy, where as, when the squad was 50% and 75% Houlliers players, Rafa was able to get more out of them and win trophies. Rafas 05-06 team was the best team under his time here IMO.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 10:37:36 am by LFC_4_life »

Offline ricflairandy

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #233 on: May 25, 2012, 10:36:17 am »
The fact that they won the CL means that the players where good enough to do so. They were able  to  follow and execute a tactical plan. Rafa's tactical brilliance was a huge part, but the players executed it on the pitch. After 06, when Rafa pretty much had all the players of his choice, we never won another trophy, where as, wehnt he squad was 50% and 75% Houlliers players, Rafa was able to get more out of them.


Some of the players in that team where awful.  Without the adition of Alonso and Garcia, they would have been shown up.
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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #234 on: May 25, 2012, 10:40:02 am »
Some of the players in that team where awful.  Without the adition of Alonso and Garcia, they would have been shown up.


Were we not shown up with Garcia and Alonso in the first half of the CL final? Who is largely credited with playing a huge role in turning that game around if not Hamann, a Houllier signing.

Either way, it was a team effort and no one player was responsible. The whole team pulled together to win that trophy and everyone deserves credit including some credit to Houllier who laid the foundation by building 75% of that squad and getting us into the CL in the first place.

Offline MichaelA

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #235 on: May 25, 2012, 10:42:03 am »
This is boring and circular argument about who's team won the European Cup. It needed both men. The next person to start testifying on behalf of Rafa in the Ged thread will be the lucky recipient of a RAWK Holiday.

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #236 on: May 25, 2012, 12:11:21 pm »
The next person to start testifying on behalf of Rafa in the Ged thread will be the lucky recipient of a RAWK Holiday.

Is it not considered a valid reason as to "Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?"

For me the only reason is his lack of class towards a former manager since he left. I know what he brought to the club, how important that structure and discipline was, and the academy and Melwood training facilities were revamped and brought into the 21st century under his tenure. I appreciate the trophies we won and would never, unlike a lot of people do down the treble as a mickey mouse treble, and call Houllier a lucky manager for the manner in which we won them. Ironically similar criticisms levelled at Benitez (only won on penalties, lucky manager, not his team etc) probably by the same people I'll bet.

I'd written the Ginola incident as a one-off, petty but a one-off and I'd come to see his final season where he made excuses, blamed individual players, turned on the fans and his inability to see the same game as us, as after effects of his illness and coming straight back into the game without a break. He had no such excuses when he slagged his successor off and revealed his intimate text messages, classlessness from the player too but Houllier didn't have to publicise it. Like I said kicking a man when he's down is not the way things are done at this club, especially when it's someone who has done so much for the club and the city.

So my answer as to why he doesn't get the respect and acclaim his achievements deserve is he does, he's just lost my respect as a man, which hurts me far more than it would ever hurt Ged.
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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #237 on: May 25, 2012, 12:27:58 pm »
few stories came out in Fowlers book which i didnt like

one was that he made the canteen staff come in on christmas day to make him and his family dinner

another was he rang the club giving off that his company credit card wasnt working (after he'd been sacked)

another was also after he was sacked he kept ringing the press office to see what was in the news.

will always respect him for bringing the club forward and winning what he won
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Offline NealFrom25Yards

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #238 on: May 25, 2012, 12:50:04 pm »
Stevie's just given him a mention...unfortunately while talking about The Owl.

"Roy makes me think of Gerard Houllier in some ways and, for me, that's a massive compliment because I loved it under him. I'd still consider him the best I've worked under. Both of them make you feel like you can run through brick walls, and you actually want to do it for them."

Offline rafa4eva

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Re: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?
« Reply #239 on: May 25, 2012, 06:30:46 pm »
He gets respect... And acclaim ... For what he achieved with us.....How u define whether it's too little or too much is down to opinion .... Unless you're just being rude!

Anyone who thinks that adding Garcia, alonso, flipping carra to cb full time, slowly changing the way the team played, losing world class murphy, henchoz and ... Who else ... Oh yeah Owen ... Luckily a player we didn't rely on in his entirety to support our counter attack style of play..... Ah... Maybe we relied on him a bit.... Well .... And still winning the  final ... Was a) not a significant achievement in light of the amount of change and b) seriously thinks houllier would have achieved the same with that squad inc new players or c) seriously believes houllier should take any credit as he has tried to since then to the degree he has .... Is quite frankly nuts.

Ive lost respect for houllier as a man.... And hindsight also shows how limited we were regards how we played under houllier .... Probably my biggest frustration was his decision to get rid of fowler.... My angle being that fowler in 2001 having come back from injury had shown he was starting to change the way he played..... IMO he was turning into a potential no7... Linking play, he was slower but his vision and understanding of the game seemed to be increasing .... When we beat Charlton? In the last game of 2001 and got 4th I thought maybe we had a chance to see fowler develop further .... Fowler I still believe is similar to gerrard .. Playing for lfc would always bring the best out of em... Even though we got good money for him, as is a consistent sore point for me I don't believe we replaced him with the right calibre of player.... Then again if we had kept Anelka that might have softened the blow... But he didn't ... Then we got diouff.... Ffs

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