Topic: Daniel Agger

[nvssudheer]

The most important resistance BR is facing is the fact that both Agger and Sakho are left foot players and both prefer playing left center back position. Since he bought Sakho for a huge sum, he was always in BR's long term plans and hence he was always going to play him.

The real issue is this: if Agger replaces Skrtel as the middle center back between Toure and Sakho and there was a tactical need to switch to 4 man defense then Agger and Sakho need to play together as CBs which I think BR is not willing to experiment. One of them needs to play Right CB and BR might not have been impressed when he tried it in training.

Just a thought though! We never know what's running in BR's mind. Hope Agger gets back into the team as he has been immense in big games for us.
 

[robertobaggio37]

We're only playing that way because Skrtel fundamentally cannot do it.

Do you honestly believe that? For gods sake people, it's Brendans job to decide which player to pick or not to pick. Right now it's Skrtel and if he performs well he'll keep his place. I don't remember anything like this when Skrtel got dropped last season and didn't get his chance after. Double standard I guess. If Skrtel fails to perform well then fair enough let's play Agger.

[Cpt_Reina]

Do you honestly believe that? For gods sake people, it's Brendans job to decide which player to pick or not to pick. Right now it's Skrtel and if he performs well he'll keep his place. I don't remember anything like this when Skrtel got dropped last season and didn't get his chance after. Double standard I guess. If Skrtel fails to perform well then fair enough let's play Agger.

This would stand up, if Skrtel was playing so well that dropping him would be sacrilege. Alas, he isn't. That's not to say he's playing badly, because he isn't. But I don't think he's playing all that well either.

He's playing 'alright', we aren't keeping clean sheets (we haven't kept a clean sheet since Agger has been out of the team) and so it would be perfectly reasonable to drop Skrtel for a better player better suited to the position, or move him and drop Toure.

[astrid]

If Agger wants his place back, then he's going to have to earn it back. He won't or at least he shouldn't be considered due to some sort of misguided loyalty, he gets in because he earns it. And that goes for anyone in the team.

Its a great place to be to have a team that has good players being held out of the team by another players performances. This current 'predicament' we currently find ourselves in with Agger, should be embraced and not questioned.

Exactly!

I really like Agger, and I believe he has the qualities to be in the team. He is perfectly suited to play in the center of a back three. But competition is healthy, and he must wait until one of the other centrebacks get injured/get a red card or have a bad game. Thats the way it is, and thats the way it should be! I am sure Agger knows that and respects it.

[Spanish Al]

He's been given his chance Skrtel and he's taking it. You can't ask for anything more and to be fair to them on saturday, we conceded through a daft pen, not some massive defencive failing.

If Agger wants his place back, then he's going to have to earn it back. He won't or at least he shouldn't be considered due to some sort of misguided loyalty, he gets in because he earns it. And that goes for anyone in the team.

Its a great place to be to have a team that has good players being held out of the team by another players performances. This current 'predicament' we currently find ourselves in with Agger, should be embraced and not questioned.

Yes Skrtel hasnt done much wrong but he's got away with a lot of mistakes. Agger lost his place through injury and for me should walk back into the side when fit. Skrtel is just an accident waiting to happen and he was very, very lucky not to concede a penalty on saturday and is lucky Anelka isnt a great finisher anymore.

[robertobaggio37]

Yes Skrtel hasnt done much wrong but he's got away with a lot of mistakes. Agger lost his place through injury and for me should walk back into the side when fit. Skrtel is just an accident waiting to happen and he was very, very lucky not to concede a penalty on saturday and is lucky Anelka isnt a great finisher anymore.

Been up all night to get lucky I guess.

[Cpt_Reina]

The whole 'you can't drop player X because they've done nothing to deserve it' school of thought is so incredibly flawed its amazing that so many subscribe to it.

What it's arguing is that you would keep a superior player out of the team simply because their replacement isn't doing anything wrong. Rather than what they're doing right.

Say Aspas had scored the odd goal while Luis was suspended, would we have been mad to drop him like a stone as soon as Luis served his time? Course we wouldn't. Because Suarez is fucking MILES better.

We'd have to wait for Aspas to miss a sitter against someone and cost us points before we reinstated Suarez? It'd be idiocy.

Just like waiting for Skrtel to make a mistake (or to not get away with one, as he has been doing) before calling Agger up is.

[BazC]

But now you're saying the quality gap between Skrtel and Agger is the same as that of Suarez and Aspas. It's clearly not. They're both good defenders, each have their flaws and each have their strengths.

The point I've been trying to make since the game on Saturday was that there's a reason Skrtel's in this side, and it's got to be because he offers something that Agger doesn't. I said straight after the game I think it's because he's a good sweeper - the best one we have - and the way he was mopping up balls yesterday suggests he's in there on merit and for a skill he offers over Agger.

[Euskadi]

The whole 'you can't drop player X because they've done nothing to deserve it' school of thought is so incredibly flawed its amazing that so many subscribe to it.

What it's arguing is that you would keep a superior player out of the team simply because their replacement isn't doing anything wrong. Rather than what they're doing right.

Say Aspas had scored the odd goal while Luis was suspended, would we have been mad to drop him like a stone as soon as Luis served his time? Course we wouldn't. Because Suarez is fucking MILES better.

We'd have to wait for Aspas to miss a sitter against someone and cost us points before we reinstated Suarez? It'd be idiocy.

Just like waiting for Skrtel to make a mistake (or to not get away with one, as he has been doing) before calling Agger up is.

But isnt it also about keeping that player motivated. Agger did cost us goals from his own individual errors, most notably from set pieces where he has lost his man and in turn we have conceded from it on a few occasions. I love Agger but his form was somewhat questionable, what I would add though is that it seems that its a recurring issue with us, falling asleep and ball watching in set pieces.

[Dave D]

I think we'll get a decent enough price for him in January seeing as though he's not cup tied in Europe. Should be able to use the money to bolster the midfield.

[LoubySoho]

And the whole let's not change the team before Arsenal is ridiculous its not like Agger is making his debut or something he is a quality player surely you would want to play your best team and for me that includes Agger and I'm not saying we should drop Skrtel I think he could replace any of the current back 3.

[Anfield Ed]

Don't care what anyone says, he's our best defender and should be playing. I don't think it's a coincidence that we haven't kept a clean sheet without him this season.

Firstly Kolo Toure is our best defender - which is saying something.

Secondly for arguments sake even if I agree with you that Agger is our best defender then that doesn't inspire me with confidence at all to be honest.

[PhaseOfPlay]

The whole 'you can't drop player X because they've done nothing to deserve it' school of thought is so incredibly flawed its amazing that so many subscribe to it.

What it's arguing is that you would keep a superior player out of the team simply because their replacement isn't doing anything wrong. Rather than what they're doing right.

Say Aspas had scored the odd goal while Luis was suspended, would we have been mad to drop him like a stone as soon as Luis served his time? Course we wouldn't. Because Suarez is fucking MILES better.

We'd have to wait for Aspas to miss a sitter against someone and cost us points before we reinstated Suarez? It'd be idiocy.

Just like waiting for Skrtel to make a mistake (or to not get away with one, as he has been doing) before calling Agger up is.

There's a man-management aspect to it too though. Rodgers has always talked about a competitive squad, and players earning their places. Skrtel has done that, as have Toure and Sakho. To change for the sake of it would be to essentially say he wasn't really serious about competition for places, and that players will just get in on a whim. So the player who has been working hard and helping the team win, but who is then replaced, will lose motivation to work hard, because why should he, if he's going to be dropped for playing well? There's more to picking teams than just writing names on paper.

[Cpt_Reina]

There's a man-management aspect to it too though. Rodgers has always talked about a competitive squad, and players earning their places. Skrtel has done that, as have Toure and Sakho. To change for the sake of it would be to essentially say he wasn't really serious about competition for places, and that players will just get in on a whim. So the player who has been working hard and helping the team win, but who is then replaced, will lose motivation to work hard, because why should he, if he's going to be dropped for playing well? There's more to picking teams than just writing names on paper.

Of course there's that element to it, but who would you rather piss off by leaving them out? Agger or Skrtel?

Would also assume that just because a player is in the team when it wins, that they've played an active part in that happening. I wouldn't attribute much (if any) credit to Skrtel for that WBA victory. I mean, he cleared that Anelka shot when it was him misjudging the ball that caused it. But other than that, how much did Skrtel earn us those 3 points?

Enough to keep the better suited Agger out of the team?

[Motty]

i like Skrtel and Agger as the sweeper but i think eventually were going to need someone more commanding for that position....hows Papa doing at the mo

the other option is to put Sakho there and Agger out left

[LoubySoho]

I think we'll get a decent enough price for him in January seeing as though he's not cup tied in Europe. Should be able to use the money to bolster the midfield.

Surely if they were going to sell him then they would have sold him in the summer when barca bid for him if you believe they did and that would have paid for Sakho. It would be really harsh to refuse to sell him because he's needed then make him VC but then sell him in Jan that would be really bad man management.

I don't know how people have now lost confidence in his ability, every one of the defenders have made mistakes some more then Agger and noone knows what he will be like as a sweeper him might be brilliant but if he doesn't get a chance because Suarez and sturridge are playing so well that any problems we have in defence are been overlooked

[Zlen]

Agreeing with everything Chopper has said here.
He'll probably get his chance and it's up to him to take it.
No shortcuts because of tattoos

[PhaseOfPlay]

Of course there's that element to it, but who would you rather piss off by leaving them out? Agger or Skrtel?

It doesn't just impact the individual players though. It also impacts the rest of the team. For example, why should Henderson bother working hard if he then thinks "well, Coutinho is getting in as soon as he's fit, so why should I bother trying?". So you have to, as a manager, always keep a keen eye on the bigger picture.

Would also assume that just because a player is in the team when it wins, that they've played an active part in that happening. I wouldn't attribute much (if any) credit to Skrtel for that WBA victory. I mean, he cleared that Anelka shot when it was him misjudging the ball that caused it. But other than that, how much did Skrtel earn us those 3 points?

Enough to keep the better suited Agger out of the team?

How many clearances and tackles did he make? What if he wasn't there to make them? What would have happened then? You can't downplay a player's contribution to a team win like that. Similarly, you can't overplay a player's contribution to a loss. It's a team game, and individuals have good individual games and bad individual games, but in the end, it's an organic, interlinked system. Every piece has a part to play.

[jepovic]

I don't know how people have now lost confidence in his ability, every one of the defenders have made mistakes some more then Agger and noone knows what he will be like as a sweeper him might be brilliant but if he doesn't get a chance because Suarez and sturridge are playing so well that any problems we have in defence are been overlooked

I thought Agger was struggling most of last season, mostly in the air and at set pieces. The start of this season wasn't different. He wasn't bad, just so-so. Now the competition for a CB spot is much tougher than last year.

This situation will be an interesting test for BRs man management skills. Coutinho is knocking on the door, asking when we will change back to 4-3-3...

[Cpt_Reina]

It doesn't just impact the individual players though. It also impacts the rest of the team. For example, why should Henderson bother working hard if he then thinks "well, Coutinho is getting in as soon as he's fit, so why should I bother trying?". So you have to, as a manager, always keep a keen eye on the bigger picture.

How many clearances and tackles did he make? What if he wasn't there to make them? What would have happened then? You can't downplay a player's contribution to a team win like that. Similarly, you can't overplay a player's contribution to a loss. It's a team game, and individuals have good individual games and bad individual games, but in the end, it's an organic, interlinked system. Every piece has a part to play.

Coutinho will replace Henderson though. Won't he? Because he does things in that 10 role which Hendo can't. Things which are more prized, things which are harder to do.

Hendo will get his game time when his skills are required over those possessed by Coutinho.

You could just as easily point to a player looking at Skrtel and thinking 'I'm going to have to work a lot harder to compensate for this guys presence than I would have if Agger was there'.

Is it better for Lucas to be worrying about having to change his game and possibly be less effective because of it because of Skrtel's lack of ability on the ball than it is for Hendo to worry about his place for a bit?

[bleedsred1978]

If we are going to stick with 3 center backs then we need at least 5 top class ones do we not? Doesn't at all follow that we should sell Agger just because he isnt in the starting line up at the moment. Incredible to think that really.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Coutinho will replace Henderson though. Won't he? Because he does things in that 10 role which Hendo can't. Things which are more prized, things which are harder to do.

Hendo will get his game time when his skills are required over those possessed by Coutinho.

You could just as easily point to a player looking at Skrtel and thinking 'I'm going to have to work a lot harder to compensate for this guys presence than I would have if Agger was there'.

Is it better for Lucas to be worrying about having to change his game and possibly be less effective because of it because of Skrtel's lack of ability on the ball than it is for Hendo to worry about his place for a bit?

Yeah there's merit to that - a lot of it. But I still think putting Agger in instead of Skrtel when Skrtel has been doing what was asked of him so far will cause more problems than it solves. Especially in this Arsenal game, where a deep defence probably suits Skrtel more than Agger?

[bleedsred1978]

As for his inclusion on merit....i think he could play instead of Jose or Cissokho in this side if that was the case.

[LoubySoho]

I thought Agger was struggling most of last season, mostly in the air and at set pieces. The start of this season wasn't different. He wasn't bad, just so-so. Now the competition for a CB spot is much tougher than last year.

This situation will be an interesting test for BRs man management skills. Coutinho is knocking on the door, asking when we will change back to 4-3-3...

He wasn't struggling for most of last year if he was then BR would have dropped him for skrtel. He won more headers than any other player in the team last year so obviously he was that bad in the air.

So if we do go back to 4-4-3 which one of the defenders is going to be dropped because surely that would be unfair on one of them since were playing so well?

[Cpt_Reina]

Yeah there's merit to that - a lot of it. But I still think putting Agger in instead of Skrtel when Skrtel has been doing what was asked of him so far will cause more problems than it solves. Especially in this Arsenal game, where a deep defence probably suits Skrtel more than Agger?

I won't disagree with you there. Now probably isn't the time to switch them.

That time was before the Newcastle match.

[Not A Scouser]

Eight goals against in nine games, fourth best in the league.  The defence is working, so whether Agger or Skrtel plays won't make a huge difference.

Seventeen goals for in nine games, third best in the league.  The attack seems to be working about the same as the defence, but nobody is talking about replacing anyone up the other end.

[Juan Loco]

Yeah there's merit to that - a lot of it. But I still think putting Agger in instead of Skrtel when Skrtel has been doing what was asked of him so far will cause more problems than it solves. Especially in this Arsenal game, where a deep defence probably suits Skrtel more than Agger?

But won't the fact that Agger is more adept at intercepting the ball (due in large part to the fact that he's a far better defender and footballer than Skrtel) benefit us against teams who rely heavily on short passes in the final third and players running off Girouds little flicks around the corner?

[PhaseOfPlay]

But won't the fact that Agger is more adept at intercepting the ball (due in large part to the fact that he's a far better defender and footballer than Skrtel) benefit us against teams who rely heavily on short passes in the final third and players running off Girouds little flicks around the corner?

I'm not sure. In those kinds of games, sometimes it's better to have the simplistic defender who has no problem clearing it randomly. There's nothing more frustrating for a short passing team than to make an elaborate build-up, only to see the ball leathered over your heads, at which point you have to retrieve it and start all over again. On top of that, if the team you are facing also has players who can drive forward and attack with precision, then it makes the game twice as difficult. Skrtel I think is perfect for this game, as are Sakho and Toure. If we're going to be tactical about it, then we have to play to Arsenal's weaknesses as much as our strengths, and their weakness is the elaboration of their play. Frustrate that with basic defending and agricultural clearances, and they might run out of ideas very quickly.

[LoubySoho]

Agger can clear it randomly if needed too and also intercept if needed. Maybe sakho shouldnt play I mean he does get turned quite easily and he hasn't faced the quality players arsenal have.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Agger can clear it randomly if needed too and also intercept if needed. Maybe sakho shouldnt play I mean he does get turned quite easily and he hasn't faced the quality players arsenal have.

You mean facing players like the ones City, Dortmund, Porto, Spain, Barcelona, Germany and Brazil have?

[-Daws-]

This Arsenal side is the greatest of the last 10 generations PoP. It has been proved this season that there's no way they can be beaten - especially by weak defenders like Sakho, Skrtel and Toure with midfielders who would get run by an MJ statue ahead of them.

I'll take a 3-0 loss right now.

[Djimi Smicer34]

Agger can clear it randomly if needed too and also intercept if needed. Maybe sakho shouldnt play I mean he does get turned quite easily and he hasn't faced the quality players arsenal have.

Dropping Sakho makes less sense than dropping Skrtel.

[The 5th Benitle]

Fair enough. People always mention Agger being our best ball playing centre back but I think he's also our best defensive centre back, dodgy set-piece defending aside. I could be on my own there though.

You're not. He's a bloody good defender. Some people think he isn't because they don't realise how good his anticipation is, and all they judge defenders on are tackles and not interventions which snuff out danger before it happens.

[The 5th Benitle]

Indeed. On your fucking bike mate and pick your dummy up on the way out.

So he should be happy not playing? You're consistently looking at these misquotes the way you want to, and your perception of it is totally skewed.

[LoubySoho]

I was trying to mix it up a bit so it doesn't seem to harsh on Skrtel  but I would move Sakho to the middle and put Agger on the left

[Juan Loco]

I'm not sure. In those kinds of games, sometimes it's better to have the simplistic defender who has no problem clearing it randomly. There's nothing more frustrating for a short passing team than to make an elaborate build-up, only to see the ball leathered over your heads, at which point you have to retrieve it and start all over again. On top of that, if the team you are facing also has players who can drive forward and attack with precision, then it makes the game twice as difficult. Skrtel I think is perfect for this game, as are Sakho and Toure. If we're going to be tactical about it, then we have to play to Arsenal's weaknesses as much as our strengths, and their weakness is the elaboration of their play. Frustrate that with basic defending and agricultural clearances, and they might run out of ideas very quickly.

Due respect, but if that was the case wouldn't they struggle against every agricultural defence they come up against? Ultimately, who is going to frustrate more if the balls are lumped away, Arsenal reset and simply attack again?

[peachybum]

Liverpool defender Daniel Agger hints at Anfeld exit

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/10410284/Liverpool-defender-Daniel-Agger-hints-at-Anfeld-exit.html

Fair enough on both sides. Keeping 4 first choice CB's happy is going to be difficult without extra games through cups. Even playing 3 at the back.

[Number 7]

How does not playing in the side constitute to leaving in January? Where does Agger say that exactly?

How many times did it look like Skrtel was going to leave in the summer when he wasn't in the team last season? Quite a few times I would say.

Besides, for a top 4 aspiring team or any title challenging team for that matter, you need at least 4 top quality CB's. Agger will get his chance. He's not in the team for a reason. When he gets back he needs to prove that he can stay there and fight for his place. That's basically all there is to it. All this bollocks about leaving has been blown way out of proportion.

[peachybum]

How does not playing in the side constitute to leaving in January? Where does Agger say that exactly?

How many times did it look like Skrtel was going to leave in the summer when he wasn't in the team last season? Quite a few times I would say.

Besides, for a top 4 aspiring team or any title challenging team for that matter, you need at least 4 top quality CB's. Agger will get his chance. He's not in the team for a reason. When he gets back he needs to prove that he can stay there and fight for his place. That's basically all there is to it. All this bollocks about leaving has been blown way out of proportion.

United, City, Arsenal and Chelsea(depending on if you rate Ivanovic) would disagree.

[Stringer123]

United, City, Arsenal and Chelsea(depending on if you rate Ivanovic) would disagree.

If we continue with a back 3 we'll need strength in depth at CB.