Topic: Steven Gerrard

[Jon2lfc]

Been through this thread with a fine tooth comb....haha great stuff!

Hmm not all of it! Some of the comments have been a bit cut-throat, some a bit close to the bone.... only a few have displayed the razor-sharp wit we're used to seeing from scousers.

It hasn't shaped up the way I thought it would. Seems to have faded away into oblivion if I'm honest.

[mikeb58]

Hmm not all of it! Some of the comments have been a bit cut-throat, some a bit close to the bone.... only a few have displayed the razor-sharp wit we're used to seeing from scousers.

It hasn't shaped up the way I thought it would. Seems to have faded away into oblivion if I'm honest.

Haha....very good, you been dying to write that!

[Jon2lfc]

Haha....very good, you been dying to write that!

Nah, I've got a creative 'streak' in me....it always comes out, as long as no one's been giving me the 'hairdryer' treatment..

[v2krules]

https://www.quora.com/Who-do-you-think-is-a-better-midfielder-Scholes-Gerrard-or-Lampard/answer/MoMo-Modern-Monk

[A-Bomb]

https://www.quora.com/Who-do-you-think-is-a-better-midfielder-Scholes-Gerrard-or-Lampard/answer/MoMo-Modern-Monk

With respect, hurt my eyes reading that shit.

[PoetryInMotion]

I would say that on the list of things to get worked up about, that is quite low down, mate.

Absolutely amazing player. People talk about Messi being one of a kind, never to be seen again, and I think Stevie is in that category for Liverpool. People genuinely talk about Scholes being better, pfffft. Only a blinkered United fan, or a hipster like those who insist Pirlo is better than Xavi could think that.

Xavi was better than Pirlo. Not by a lot though.

Gerrard was better than Scholes. And it wasn't even close. Arrogant Manc heads talk about League titles, but look at the disparity in individual accolades. 8 Times PL Team of the year to what? 2 or 3? Count how many Ballon d'Or nominations/votes either got over the years.

It wasn't even close. Scholes had exceptional passing ability, but that was it. He was utterly disastrous in defense, didn't score much, didn't drive his team much, and was nowhere near a leader Stevie was. Scholes, in ordinary teams would've been a good player, nothing more. Gerrard lifted our ordinary sides to levels higher for years and years, won games against way superior oppositions on his own, time & again.

Considering all that, Scholes is a myth.

[Jon2lfc]

Xavi was better than Pirlo. Not by a lot though.

Gerrard was better than Scholes. And it wasn't even close. Arrogant Manc heads talk about League titles, but look at the disparity in individual accolades. 8 Times PL Team of the year to what? 2 or 3? Count how many Ballon d'Or nominations/votes either got over the years.

It wasn't even close. Scholes had exceptional passing ability, but that was it. He was utterly disastrous in defense, didn't score much, didn't drive his team much, and was nowhere near a leader Stevie was. Scholes, in ordinary teams would've been a good player, nothing more. Gerrard lifted our ordinary sides to levels higher for years and years, won games against way superior oppositions on his own, time & again.

Considering all that, Scholes is a myth.

I broadly agree with that.

And would add that:

Even Iniesta is arguably greater than Pirlo.

It's interesting that many people can suggest players that were/are like Scholes.
But fewer can suggest players that were/are like Stevie.
That is telling in itself.

Plus, Scholes "bottled" it as manager of Oldham, whilst Stevie is still going strong at Rangers

[Jon2lfc]

And if anyone can be accused of having the same haircut throughout their entire career, it's Scholes!
And not Stevie!
Hahahaha

[Vinay]

Following the unnecessary shit stirring by Melissa Reddy recently when we should all have been heady basking in our return to European glory, some have suggested Steven Gerrard could step in as manager when Klopp decides to take time off.

For some reason, perhaps an impression I got from reading Gerrard's autobiography, I have not been convinced that he can be an elite manager for Liverpool. Correct me if I am wrong, but has anyone seen anything in his Rangers team to see a great manager there, who can lead Liverpool Football Club to more glory?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Following the unnecessary shit stirring by Melissa Reddy recently when we should all have been heady basking in our return to European glory, some have suggested Steven Gerrard could step in as manager when Klopp decides to take time off.

For some reason, perhaps an impression I got from reading Gerrard's autobiography, I have not been convinced that he can be an elite manager for Liverpool. Correct me if I am wrong, but has anyone seen anything in his Rangers team to see a great manager there, who can lead Liverpool Football Club to more glory?

Not at the Klopp level. But he's at least being sensible in the job at Rangers (read: old school) in building a defence first. I haven't seen anything from the Rangers attack, though, to say that he has any real attacking "philosophy", though. Having said that, defensive-counterattack is never usually a bad way to play.

[tubby]

Way too early to judge Gerrard as a manager but he hasn't embarrassed himself so far.  I'd want to see him 1) succeed with Rangers and 2) follow it up more success at another club before considering him for Liverpool.

[red_Mark1980]

Only just watched the Documentary, he absolutely wants the top job one day

[lamonti]

Can't believe the amount of people who want him to manage us after Klopp. The mind boggles.

[Clayton Bigsby]

Can't believe the amount of people who want him to manage us after Klopp. The mind boggles.

Klopp could be here for another 5-10 years and in that time Gerrard may have excelled in a non farmers league and actually be offered the job on merit.

[Max_powers]

Klopp could be here for another 5-10 years and in that time Gerrard Craig Bellamy may have excelled in a non farmers league and actually be offered the job on merit.

Fixed that for you. to be honest we should just wait and see how he does, rather than start speculating based on a decent but ultimately futile season in SPL. There are so many players (or non players) that can become the next great managers in the future.

I am pretty sure no one predicted Klopp was going to be such a great manager 20 years ago, same can be said of Guardiola (although he had slightly better playing career than Klopp). For every Zidane and Ancelotti there are 100 Gary Nevilles.

[afc tukrish]

I am pretty sure no one predicted Klopp was going to be such a great manager 20 years ago, same can be said of Guardiola (although he had slightly better playing career than Klopp).

The Cardigan was a far better player than The Jurgen

[Clayton Bigsby]

The Cardigan was a far better player than The Jurgen

I'm pretty sure the comment was in jest 

[Max_powers]

The Cardigan was a far better player than The Jurgen

For sure, but no one could say based on his playing career that this man would one day become one of the finest managers in the world. Gerrard's playing career should have no influence on how favorably he is seen as a candidate for the managerial position. Only his managerial and coaching abilities. I doubt many would have been happy with some one like Neil Lennon as Liverpool coach when he was tearing it in SPL.

Stevie needs to prove himself over a period of time and showcase his ability to improve players, implement a system and get results. He will need to do it at a higher level than SPL too at some stage, before I am comfortable in saying that he would make a good manger for LFC.

[afc tukrish]

For sure, but no one could say based on his playing career that this man would one day become one of the finest managers in the world. Gerrard's playing career should have no influence on how favorably he is seen as a candidate for the managerial position. Only his managerial and coaching abilities. I doubt many would have been happy with some one like Neil Lennon as Liverpool coach when he was tearing it in SPL.

Stevie needs to prove himself over a period of time and showcase his ability to improve players, implement a system and get results. He will need to do it at a higher level than SPL too at some stage, before I am comfortable in saying that he would make a good manger for LFC.

Agree with all that, was mostly just seizing upon another abundant opportunity to mock Pip...

[Bob Sacamano]

Every once in a while I think about the fact that Gerrard never got to play as a number 8 in Klopp's system behind Mane/Firmino/Salah and I get a little sad.

If ever a player embodied "Heavy Metal Football"....

[CraigDS]

Every once in a while I think about the fact that Gerrard never got to play as a number 8 in Klopp's system behind Mane/Firmino/Salah and I get a little sad.

If ever a player embodied "Heavy Metal Football"....

A peak Gerrard in that midfield 

[Eeyore]

Every once in a while I think about the fact that Gerrard never got to play as a number 8 in Klopp's system behind Mane/Firmino/Salah and I get a little sad.

If ever a player embodied "Heavy Metal Football"....

Gerrard wanted to play the 6 role and the 8 role at the same time though. He embodied being the ultimate box to box player far more than he embodied ' Heavy Metal Football ' for me.

[Coolie High]

Every once in a while I think about the fact that Gerrard never got to play as a number 8 in Klopp's system behind Mane/Firmino/Salah and I get a little sad.

If ever a player embodied "Heavy Metal Football"....

He would have been wonderful.

[Coolie High]

Gerrard wanted to play the 6 role and the 8 role at the same time though. He embodied being the ultimate box to box player far more than he embodied ' Heavy Metal Football ' for me.

Don't get you at all here, Henderson has also interchanged between the two roles, as has Wijnaldum and even Lallana.

[Bob Sacamano]

Don't get you at all here, Henderson has also interchanged between the two roles, as has Wijnaldum and even Lallana.

Yeah I feel like the 2 8's in our system have the freedom to venture forward or drop deeper depending on the situation because the other is always covering.

The pace, the power, the passion, the intensity, the quality....I mean Klopp couldn't engineer a more perfect player for himself in a lab. My God.

[Eeyore]

Don't get you at all here, Henderson has also interchanged between the two roles, as has Wijnaldum and even Lallana.

Henderson is disciplined though. I am not talking about being able to play both roles. I am talking about not playing both roles at the same time. Gerrard had that much talent that he was capable of being the best player on the pitch in any of the outfield positions. He played the game like Roy of the Rovers. His ideal role was as a box to box midfielder, flying in to tackles in the defensive third one moment smashing one in the top corner the next.

You simply can't do that in a Klopp team. For Klopp's teams it as all about discipline. About waiting for triggers, about creating pressing traps, about the team functioning as a unit. If you could get Gerrard to do that then for me you would lose the things that made him exceptional.

[Coolie High]

Henderson is disciplined though. I am not talking about being able to play both roles. I am talking about not playing both roles at the same time. Gerrard had that much talent that he was capable of being the best player on the pitch in any of the outfield positions. He played the game like Roy of the Rovers. His ideal role was as a box to box midfielder, flying in to tackles in the defensive third one moment smashing one in the top corner the next.

You simply can't do that in a Klopp team. For Klopp's teams it as all about discipline. About waiting for triggers, about creating pressing traps, about the team functioning as a unit. If you could get Gerrard to do that then for me you would lose the things that made him exceptional.

How discipline would Henderson be in a flat two man midfield? I don't think that would be a problem and in fact I think it's a cliche that has taken a life of its own, Henderson in a box to box role does all of the above also to a lesser degree, I mean we were just discussing in another thread about him and Milners propensity to drift to wide positions, I don't see how a Gerrard who had the same propensity as well as more talent wouldn't fit in, you make it seem as he was a stupid footballer? How would him waiting for triggers and creating pressing traps, make him lose what made him exceptional? He would still be a great passer, a great scorer of goals and etc, in fact he would be pretty similar to De Brunei under Guardiola, ironically if this was 5 years ago you would probably say De Bruyne wasn't a 'Guardiola player' as he gets dispossessed more than just about any midfielder in the league, still it works for City and Guardiola.

[Eeyore]

How discipline would Henderson be in a flat two man midfield?

Klopp doesn't play a flat two in midfield. He plays a 1-2, a 2-1 or what we currently play a flat wider 3.

I don't think that would be a problem and in fact I think it's a cliche that has taken a life of its own, Henderson in a box to box role does all of the above also to a lesser degree, I mean we were just discussing in another thread about him and Milners propensity to drift to wide positions, I don't see how a Gerrard who had the same propensity as well as more talent wouldn't fit in, you make it seem as he was a stupid footballer?

Henderson doesn't play a box to box role for us under Klopp though. He has either been played as a 6 or an 8. I haven't said Gerrard was a stupid footballer, far from it. What I said was that if you took him out of his comfort zone and asked him to be disciplined then you would lose what made him great. If you want proof of that look at how he performed for England when he was asked to play as a twin 8 with Lampard.

How would him waiting for triggers and creating pressing traps, make him lose what made him exceptional? He would still be a great passer, a great scorer of goals and etc, in fact he would be pretty similar to De Brunei under Guardiola, ironically if this was 5 years ago you would probably say De Bruyne wasn't a 'Guardiola player' as he gets dispossessed more than just about any midfielder in the league, still it works for City and Guardiola.

If you look at another manager who wanted to look for triggers and press then look at Rafa. Then look at the positions Rafa wanted Stevie to play in as a 10 where he could cheat or as wide player. In a pressing team then the central midfield players have to be incredibly disciplined because if they are not then you get passed around and through and then they are on to your back four.

As for DeBruyne the thing is City play a completely different system. They play with an orthodox holding player and they press in a totally different way. We look to counter press whereas they look to retain possession in a disciplined way that means they look to regain possession as soon as they turn it over. They look to suck you in and overload and then switch play. They use their wide players for width, we use our full backs .We look to break the lines with Mo and then bring in other players. City can afford for DeBruyne to turn over the ball because their full backs don't push on as much and they have a holding mid. 

[PhaseOfPlay]

Al, your posts are excellent as always, love reading them.

But a small semantic point

The #8 is the box-to-box mid

In traditional tactical position/role nomenclature, the #6 is the holding mid, the #10 is the advanced playmaker, and the #8 does both jobs (defends the box and gets into the attack at the other end).

Gerrard's issue in regards to Lampard is that they were usually played together as a pair, and both players wanted to get forward, and nobody wanted to mind the house, IIRC.

But in terms of his activity, he has almost always played the #8 role in the middle. His issue is that he played almost entirely on instinct, which is probably part of the reason Rafa liked him out on the right more than in the middle.

[PhaseOfPlay]

How discipline would Henderson be in a flat two man midfield? I don't think that would be a problem and in fact I think it's a cliche that has taken a life of its own, Henderson in a box to box role does all of the above also to a lesser degree, I mean we were just discussing in another thread about him and Milners propensity to drift to wide positions, I don't see how a Gerrard who had the same propensity as well as more talent wouldn't fit in, you make it seem as he was a stupid footballer? How would him waiting for triggers and creating pressing traps, make him lose what made him exceptional? He would still be a great passer, a great scorer of goals and etc, in fact he would be pretty similar to De Brunei under Guardiola, ironically if this was 5 years ago you would probably say De Bruyne wasn't a 'Guardiola player' as he gets dispossessed more than just about any midfielder in the league, still it works for City and Guardiola.

Now, or 5 years ago?

Now (as in the past two seasons), De Bruyne is one of the best players at retaining the ball. 4-5 years ago, it was once per game, WAY behind about 50 other players at least.

[Eeyore]

Al, your posts are excellent as always, love reading them.

But a small semantic point

The #8 is the box-to-box mid

In traditional tactical position/role nomenclature, the #6 is the holding mid, the #10 is the advanced playmaker, and the #8 does both jobs (defends the box and gets into the attack at the other end).

Gerrard's issue in regards to Lampard is that they were usually played together as a pair, and both players wanted to get forward, and nobody wanted to mind the house, IIRC.

But in terms of his activity, he has almost always played the #8 role in the middle. His issue is that he played almost entirely on instinct, which is probably part of the reason Rafa liked him out on the right more than in the middle.

I don't think Gerrard played as an 8 in possession though PoP. He went much further than a traditional 8. He also wanted to drop in and be the 6 and play as a deep playmaker. I don't see how that could work in a Klopp side. As you say Gerrard played on instinct not discipline.

[Chris~]

Managers adapt to their best players. If gerrard drops deeper to get the ball and his switches of play are a+ then you rotate the midfield/fabinho around that, or do some other tactical shift. To carry on the de bruyne comparison, guardiola didnt have xavi drifiting right to whip in crosses. It's what he's really good at thoigh so you build it in to your attacking patterns.

[Coolie High]

Klopp doesn't play a flat two in midfield. He plays a 1-2, a 2-1 or what we currently play a flat wider 3.

Henderson doesn't play a box to box role for us under Klopp though. He has either been played as a 6 or an 8. I haven't said Gerrard was a stupid footballer, far from it. What I said was that if you took him out of his comfort zone and asked him to be disciplined then you would lose what made him great. If you want proof of that look at how he performed for England when he was asked to play as a twin 8 with Lampard.

If you look at another manager who wanted to look for triggers and press then look at Rafa. Then look at the positions Rafa wanted Stevie to play in as a 10 where he could cheat or as wide player. In a pressing team then the central midfield players have to be incredibly disciplined because if they are not then you get passed around and through and then they are on to your back four.

As for DeBruyne the thing is City play a completely different system. They play with an orthodox holding player and they press in a totally different way. We look to counter press whereas they look to retain possession in a disciplined way that means they look to regain possession as soon as they turn it over. They look to suck you in and overload and then switch play. They use their wide players for width, we use our full backs .We look to break the lines with Mo and then bring in other players. City can afford for DeBruyne to turn over the ball because their full backs don't push on as much and they have a holding mid.

Yes and players can be coached to be disciplined, be coached to press and look for triggers, as long as they don't have any physical limitations. Gerrard under Klopp wouldn't be playing in a flat two man midfield which is the point, he did so in earlier parts of his career, but once coupled with Alonso and Mascherano he became a more refined decisive player, playing alongside a Fabinho and Wijnaldum who are very aware tactically and disciplined, like the aformentioned two of Alonso and Mascherano would have got the best out of him in a similar way, him not working with Lampard on retrospect is pretty obvious, they were too similar of players and many a time they never played with a holding disciplined midfielder like the likes i mentioned at all.

[Coolie High]

Now, or 5 years ago?

Now (as in the past two seasons), De Bruyne is one of the best players at retaining the ball. 4-5 years ago, it was once per game, WAY behind about 50 other players at least.

Now, i think he is one of the most dispossessed midfielders in this league.

https://twitter.com/WhoScored/status/977921798686826501

This was couple seasons ago.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Now, i think he is one of the most dispossessed midfielders in this league.

https://twitter.com/WhoScored/status/977921798686826501

This was couple seasons ago.

Odd, because Opta has a lot of other players ahead of him, every season, for possession loss. Whoscored might be including lost 1v1s perhaps

[Eeyore]

Yes and players can be coached to be disciplined, be coached to press and look for triggers, as long as they don't have any physical limitations. Gerrard under Klopp wouldn't be playing in a flat two man midfield which is the point, he did so in earlier parts of his career, but once coupled with Alonso and Mascherano he became a more refined decisive player, playing alongside a Fabinho and Wijnaldum who are very aware tactically and disciplined, like the aformentioned two of Alonso and Mascherano would have got the best out of him in a similar way, him not working with Lampard on retrospect is pretty obvious, they were too similar of players and many a time they never played with a holding disciplined midfielder like the likes i mentioned at all.

When Gerrard played with Alonso and Mascherano at his best it was as a 10 though. For me if Gerrard played for Klopp it would of been as part of the front three and not as an eight. I think he would also of had more chance of playing as a right back similar to Trent rather than an 8.

[Eeyore]

Now, i think he is one of the most dispossessed midfielders in this league.

https://twitter.com/WhoScored/status/977921798686826501

This was couple seasons ago.

Surely Dispossessed and losing possession are two different things though. From Who's Scored's glossary.

Dispossessed
    - Being tackled by an opponent without attempting to dribble past them.

In the Twitter post they talk about losing possession. I imagine with De Bruyne losing possession would include the high number of crosses and dead balls he takes.

[DangerScouse]

Can't believe the amount of people who want him to manage us after Klopp. The mind boggles.

It's incredible. No coincidence our two world class managers in the last 30 years excelled against superior opposition in two of Europe's top leagues. Gerrard a world away from that level currently.

[Jon2lfc]

Klopp doesn't play a flat two in midfield. He plays a 1-2, a 2-1 or what we currently play a flat wider 3.

Henderson doesn't play a box to box role for us under Klopp though. He has either been played as a 6 or an 8. I haven't said Gerrard was a stupid footballer, far from it. What I said was that if you took him out of his comfort zone and asked him to be disciplined then you would lose what made him great. If you want proof of that look at how he performed for England when he was asked to play as a twin 8 with Lampard.

If you look at another manager who wanted to look for triggers and press then look at Rafa. Then look at the positions Rafa wanted Stevie to play in as a 10 where he could cheat or as wide player. In a pressing team then the central midfield players have to be incredibly disciplined because if they are not then you get passed around and through and then they are on to your back four.

As for DeBruyne the thing is City play a completely different system. They play with an orthodox holding player and they press in a totally different way. We look to counter press whereas they look to retain possession in a disciplined way that means they look to regain possession as soon as they turn it over. They look to suck you in and overload and then switch play. They use their wide players for width, we use our full backs .We look to break the lines with Mo and then bring in other players. City can afford for DeBruyne to turn over the ball because their full backs don't push on as much and they have a holding mid.

Thanks for this post mate.

I've been looking for a concise breakdown of how we differ from Man City for a long time.

[jason67]

Thanks for this post mate.

I've been looking for a concise breakdown of how we differ from Man City for a long time.

He's got some good stuff on FSG it you want it.