Author Topic: Spanish Football  (Read 581297 times)

Offline Bootleorbust

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4360 on: September 23, 2018, 08:11:32 pm »
Barca 1-0. Messi, who else?

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4361 on: September 23, 2018, 08:25:42 pm »
Down to 10 men. Lenglet red card for a bizarre elbow
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Offline Syntexity

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4362 on: September 23, 2018, 08:29:42 pm »
Ref has pretty much given a card for every freekick. Someone wants to be in the limelight.

On a still picure it looks pretty bad though, but a picture doesnt really show the whole situation. Does not look intentional to me.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4363 on: September 23, 2018, 08:31:45 pm »
Bilbao's goalkeeper is absolutely putrid.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4364 on: September 23, 2018, 08:35:25 pm »
Ref has pretty much given a card for every freekick. Someone wants to be in the limelight.

On a still picure it looks pretty bad though, but a picture doesnt really show the whole situation. Does not look intentional to me.

The red card do you mean? Lenglet clearly swings his elbow out. It's a blatant red all day long.
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Offline Syntexity

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4365 on: September 23, 2018, 08:56:22 pm »
The red card do you mean? Lenglet clearly swings his elbow out. It's a blatant red all day long.

A swinging elbow isnt always intentional though. He is going into win the ball, with eyes on the ball and not the player.

So many situations in todays game where elbows are thrown out and it isnt punished with more than a yellow or just overlooked that has more intent than that. Maybe (probably) the rules should be stricter as it is quite dangerous, accident or not. I mean mophead has made a career out of throwing it out in every duel he is involved in but has been sent off maybe once.

Offline SMASHerano

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4366 on: September 23, 2018, 09:56:01 pm »
Referee in that Barcelona game was terrible.

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4367 on: September 24, 2018, 11:22:03 pm »
It's an end of the Ronaldo/Messi era, or very close to it, as these latest FIFA awards prove it. Messi was not even in top 3 and Ronaldo wasn't close to winning it. I think this is unjust for both of them. If we are being honest, what Messi is doing week in week out for the past season/year/right now is far ahead of anyone except Ronaldo. It simply isn't close. The likes of Hazard, Salah and Kane get praised to high heaven for doing anything remotely close, yet, Messi finds himself outside top 3.

Ronaldo, too, has been going downhill. His red card midweek, the award snub, departure from Madrid... these all show that. It's a coin toss whether Ronaldo or Modric should have won it, but the whole events of the past 2-3 months show that he is in the last phase of his career.

I just don't understand why so many (neutral) people are happy about the end of Messi/Ronaldo era either. Over the years, people have hyped up various alternatives to Messi and Ronaldo. One year it was Ribery, another year it was Sneijder, another year it was Neuer, and other times it was Xavi or Iniesta. Despite my love for the latter two, none of these guys were close to Messi and Ronaldo (the hype of Ribery and Sneijder were especially baffling). The current alternatives aren't any better either, Neymar, Salah, Hazard, de Bruyne, Modric... Some people will love this, its like going back to 90s or early 00s, that there are no such clearly dominant figures in football. But this is the end of the era of two of the very best footballers ever, historical players, I am a bit sad about it.

I watched the selected FIFA best goal of the year. I chuckled. That was a cracking goal, but Messi has scored a ton of them, countless numbers of these, and in fact, far better ones. If Messi does it (and he still does it regularly), people don't seem to appreciate it any more. I hope people realize that the likes of Salah and Hazard can play another 20 years and won't be anywhere close to either Ronaldo or Messi. All this talk of Hazard getting to their level makes me laugh.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4368 on: September 25, 2018, 12:51:18 pm »
It's an end of the Ronaldo/Messi era, or very close to it, as these latest FIFA awards prove it. Messi was not even in top 3 and Ronaldo wasn't close to winning it. I think this is unjust for both of them. If we are being honest, what Messi is doing week in week out for the past season/year/right now is far ahead of anyone except Ronaldo. It simply isn't close. The likes of Hazard, Salah and Kane get praised to high heaven for doing anything remotely close, yet, Messi finds himself outside top 3.

Ronaldo, too, has been going downhill. His red card midweek, the award snub, departure from Madrid... these all show that. It's a coin toss whether Ronaldo or Modric should have won it, but the whole events of the past 2-3 months show that he is in the last phase of his career.

I just don't understand why so many (neutral) people are happy about the end of Messi/Ronaldo era either. Over the years, people have hyped up various alternatives to Messi and Ronaldo. One year it was Ribery, another year it was Sneijder, another year it was Neuer, and other times it was Xavi or Iniesta. Despite my love for the latter two, none of these guys were close to Messi and Ronaldo (the hype of Ribery and Sneijder were especially baffling). The current alternatives aren't any better either, Neymar, Salah, Hazard, de Bruyne, Modric... Some people will love this, its like going back to 90s or early 00s, that there are no such clearly dominant figures in football. But this is the end of the era of two of the very best footballers ever, historical players, I am a bit sad about it.

I watched the selected FIFA best goal of the year. I chuckled. That was a cracking goal, but Messi has scored a ton of them, countless numbers of these, and in fact, far better ones. If Messi does it (and he still does it regularly), people don't seem to appreciate it any more. I hope people realize that the likes of Salah and Hazard can play another 20 years and won't be anywhere close to either Ronaldo or Messi. All this talk of Hazard getting to their level makes me laugh.

The FIFA awards aren't the Ballon D'Or don't forget - in fact, this is only the second time they have ever been given out.  And given the WC is a FIFA organised competition, I can see why they were putting more emphasis on performing well in the WC instead of just the CL - Modric carried Croatia to the final, and was probably Real's best player too in the CL Final, so I can totally see why he who fannies about and dives around didn't win.  Don't forget, the main reason he who fannies about and dives around won the CL golden boot was because of (a) he played significantly more than Salah/Mane - 200 mins more in fact and (b) he scored 4 penalties (as opposed to 0 for Salah/Mane/Firmino, who each scored 10 goals to his 15, but had more assists). 

And as a Salah fan - I can see why he got in the top 3 ahead of Messi - neither did anything in the WC (and with Messi playing for a massive country, this counts more against him), then in the CL there is no doubt Salah outshone Messi for me, not just in the goals scored column (Salah 10 goals and 4 assists in 931 mins - goal or assist every 66.5 mins, as opposed to Messi 6 goals and 2 assists in 783 - goal or assist every 98 mins) as he, in an inferior side (let's be honest) took us to CL final, instead of whimpering out to Roma in the QFs). 
It's only in the league, with Barcelona walking Le Liga, that you could argue he outshone Salah due to Barcelona winning La Liga, but I personally don't think that should be as significant a factor in an individual award as it usually is; but even then, statistically it's pretty close (Messi played 2977 mins, got 34 goals and 12 assists - g/a every 65 mins, as opposed to Salah's 2922 mins, 32 goals and 10 assists - g/a every 69.5 mins).  And I would argue the bottom of La Liga, defensively, is weaker to the Premier League (as we see year on year comparing top scorers between the two leagues).

EDIT - If you were talking more about the inspiring his side to victory, the way he plays football week on week, rather then purely scoring/setting up loads of goals - then I'd argue KDB in the premier league was almost as good aesthetically as him (certainly the way he inspired the team, creating the forward momentum, and the style he plays - and Man City dominated the PL even more the Barcelona dominated La Liga) - and he wasn't even in the team of the year (missing out to Hazard who did SFA in the league and in Europe, but was better in the WC - more evidence that WC performance was weighed more heavily than League)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 12:56:09 pm by Scottymuser »

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4369 on: September 26, 2018, 08:40:36 pm »
Valverde is slowly becoming an annoying character for me. I just don't understand why he has to rotate so much at the start of the season. Rather I understand that he has a big squad full of stars he needs to give game time, but why on earth would you assemble such a squad where your 130-140m purchase has to sit on the bench? Barca's wage bill is the highest in world football, transfer expenditure is astronomical. Why? Have some youngsters from La Masia on the bench and stop buying all these Arthur's and Vidal's if you don't need them for the first team.

Stupid rotation with 0 game plan is going to cost Barca's season. Cruising through the games with 0 energy. Its dire stuff.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4370 on: September 26, 2018, 08:43:37 pm »
Nabil El Zhar. Enough said.
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Offline ElCapo

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4371 on: September 26, 2018, 10:09:08 pm »
It's an end of the Ronaldo/Messi era, or very close to it, as these latest FIFA awards prove it. Messi was not even in top 3 and Ronaldo wasn't close to winning it. I think this is unjust for both of them. If we are being honest, what Messi is doing week in week out for the past season/year/right now is far ahead of anyone except Ronaldo. It simply isn't close. The likes of Hazard, Salah and Kane get praised to high heaven for doing anything remotely close, yet, Messi finds himself outside top 3.

Ronaldo, too, has been going downhill. His red card midweek, the award snub, departure from Madrid... these all show that. It's a coin toss whether Ronaldo or Modric should have won it, but the whole events of the past 2-3 months show that he is in the last phase of his career.

I just don't understand why so many (neutral) people are happy about the end of Messi/Ronaldo era either. Over the years, people have hyped up various alternatives to Messi and Ronaldo. One year it was Ribery, another year it was Sneijder, another year it was Neuer, and other times it was Xavi or Iniesta. Despite my love for the latter two, none of these guys were close to Messi and Ronaldo (the hype of Ribery and Sneijder were especially baffling). The current alternatives aren't any better either, Neymar, Salah, Hazard, de Bruyne, Modric... Some people will love this, its like going back to 90s or early 00s, that there are no such clearly dominant figures in football. But this is the end of the era of two of the very best footballers ever, historical players, I am a bit sad about it.

I watched the selected FIFA best goal of the year. I chuckled. That was a cracking goal, but Messi has scored a ton of them, countless numbers of these, and in fact, far better ones. If Messi does it (and he still does it regularly), people don't seem to appreciate it any more. I hope people realize that the likes of Salah and Hazard can play another 20 years and won't be anywhere close to either Ronaldo or Messi. All this talk of Hazard getting to their level makes me laugh.

At this moment in time, I'd take Hazard over either Messi or Ronaldo.    Messi and Ronaldo have been two of the best players ever, but Father Time has caught up them, that's been obvious for a few years.

Offline robgomm

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4372 on: September 26, 2018, 10:23:23 pm »
Barca and Real in a race to the bottom tonight apparently.

Offline Stevie93

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4373 on: September 26, 2018, 10:43:12 pm »
Anyone know the last time Madrid and Barca lost on the same day?

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4374 on: September 27, 2018, 12:30:54 am »
At this moment in time, I'd take Hazard over either Messi or Ronaldo.    Messi and Ronaldo have been two of the best players ever, but Father Time has caught up them, that's been obvious for a few years.

I’ll have some of whatever it is you’re smoking.  Messi is still, far and away, the best player in the world.  Nobody comes close. 

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4375 on: September 27, 2018, 12:52:08 am »
I’ll have some of whatever it is you’re smoking.  Messi is still, far and away, the best player in the world.  Nobody comes close.

I agree.

Hazard can only dream of playing as good as Messi.

Some baffling comments.


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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4376 on: September 27, 2018, 07:20:31 am »
That Hazard comment is shocking.

Messi is judged by his own ridiculously high standards. You'll have days when people say he didn't play that well and he's got 1 goal and 2 assists or something. That's an off day for Messi.

Hazard does half of what Messi does and gets praised to high heaven, while Messi gets vilified for it.

There's no doubt Hazard is a top player with incredible talent. He doesn't come anywhere close to Messi, and I'm talking about today...not Messi at his peak.
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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4377 on: September 27, 2018, 09:04:23 am »
He definitely comes close to Messi if he keeps these standards up, he has scored and assisted a great amount for Belgium in the calendar year under an attacking manager, historically he has also been right up there with Messi as the best dribbler of the last few years statistically, all he needed was to add more goals, he now is.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4378 on: September 27, 2018, 09:40:30 am »
I’ll have some of whatever it is you’re smoking.  Messi is still, far and away, the best player in the world.  Nobody comes close.

I don’t think you smoke it :D
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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4379 on: September 27, 2018, 10:21:05 am »
we don't see Barca and Real Madrid losing on the same day quite often, what a night yesterday was for Atletico.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4380 on: September 27, 2018, 12:27:42 pm »
That Hazard comment is shocking.

Messi is judged by his own ridiculously high standards. You'll have days when people say he didn't play that well and he's got 1 goal and 2 assists or something. That's an off day for Messi.

Hazard does half of what Messi does and gets praised to high heaven, while Messi gets vilified for it.

There's no doubt Hazard is a top player with incredible talent. He doesn't come anywhere close to Messi, and I'm talking about today...not Messi at his peak.

Pretty much, although I’d agree with those that say he is the best in the premier league

Even on an off day messi is still better than everyone else. He is that good.

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4381 on: September 27, 2018, 12:50:39 pm »
He definitely comes close to Messi if he keeps these standards up, he has scored and assisted a great amount for Belgium in the calendar year under an attacking manager, historically he has also been right up there with Messi as the best dribbler of the last few years statistically, all he needed was to add more goals, he now is.

If he can keep up these standards for a decade then we can put him in the same category as Messi.

Offline Broad Spectrum

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4382 on: September 27, 2018, 12:56:04 pm »
Anyone know the last time Madrid and Barca lost on the same day?

3 and a half years ago I heard yesterday.

Offline Scottymuser

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4383 on: September 27, 2018, 01:54:12 pm »
Pretty much, although I’d agree with those that say he is the best in the premier league

Even on an off day messi is still better than everyone else. He is that good.


I wouldn't agree with those who say he is the best in the premier league, unless we are going by the last 6 games (and only the last 6 games) - last 4 years, Chelsea have won the title (where he hasn't been their best player), and not finished in the top 4 twice (1 of which he was dire and one of their worst) - that, coupled with, over that time, less end product (in terms of goals/assists) then any number of similarly attacking non-strikers, many of whom have more defensive responsibilities (Sanchez at Arsenal, Sane/Sterling/KDB at City, Salah/Mane/Coutinho at us, Martial at Utd even, Marhez at Leics, Eriksen/Son/Alli at Spurs, etc.)

This season it does look like he is turning a new leaf (goal or assists every 56.7 mins so far, compared to one every 143.2 mins at his absolute best prior to this season - 2016/17), but that could be down to having a small sample of games, against weaker opposition (3 of his goals came against the worst team in the league at home in Cardiff) - once we have played at least half a season, we should know more about whether it was an anomaly caused by one good game (take that game out, he has 2 goals and 2 assists in 320ish mins - 1 every 80ish mins, still better than he has been, but not best in the league numbers imo) or whether Sarri's style of play has truly transformed him

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4384 on: September 27, 2018, 01:59:44 pm »
At the end of the year, Messi will score at a minimum of 30 goals [he hasn't scored less than 40 in years btw] with at least 15 assists.

Hazard's best season in the league hasn't been more than 16 league goals, and overall no more than 25 goals.

He will have to match what Messi does to be better than him, and despite his ability he won't be doing that imo.

For the last 9 seasons he's scored

45,54,41,58,41,60,73,53,47. avg of 52 goals a year per 52 matches. For a player who has ''declined'' that is a remarkable statistic, and only Ronaldo comes close.

Btw Messi has scored 8 goals already in 8 appearances, and we've only gotten to the end of September


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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4385 on: September 27, 2018, 02:37:25 pm »
The Messi decline thing is mental when he scored more goals than Salah last year, had more assists than De Bruyne, more dribbles than Neymar and he had the heat map of a centre midfielder.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4386 on: September 27, 2018, 02:42:47 pm »
The Messi decline thing is mental when he scored more goals than Salah last year, had more assists than De Bruyne, more dribbles than Neymar and he had the heat map of a centre midfielder.

Narratives. It's baffling.

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4387 on: September 27, 2018, 04:39:22 pm »
That Hazard comment is shocking.

Messi is judged by his own ridiculously high standards. You'll have days when people say he didn't play that well and he's got 1 goal and 2 assists or something. That's an off day for Messi.

Hazard does half of what Messi does and gets praised to high heaven, while Messi gets vilified for it.

There's no doubt Hazard is a top player with incredible talent. He doesn't come anywhere close to Messi, and I'm talking about today...not Messi at his peak.
Agreed, mate.

Hazard is developing into a legit world class player, perhaps top 5-10 in the world. As none of the current top players are as consistent even current Messi (as you say, not peak 91 goals/year Messi) it is even difficult to rank top 5-10 in the world. You have 2-3 months phases of a season where everyone is saying Neymar is the 3rd best player in the world, 3-4 months its Hazard, 3-4 months its Mbappe or de Bruyne or someone else. The matter of fact is, if Messi scores a goal like Hazard scored in the Liverpool match and does not much else, some people still write "Messi was unusually quite". I see many people saying Hazard's goal is the best goal of the season (already!), that he is the best in the world. In 5-10 minutes I can find a youtube compilation of Messi goals from last season which had many equal or better ones. You show the video to the same people, and they still act unimpressed.

Its ridiculous. The same is true for Ronaldo. Ronaldo scored an overhead bicycle goal away from home vs a top team in a top CL match. That is more important/impressive than any goal Hazard has scored in the past 4-5 years of his club career. This is the same Hazard who is playing in Europa League one year and CL another year. I am not saying it is all his fault, but had he been as consistent as Messi or Ronaldo were, Chelsea wouldn't be in Europa League. Period.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 04:42:33 pm by Xxavi »

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4388 on: September 27, 2018, 05:09:44 pm »
At the end of the year, Messi will score at a minimum of 30 goals [he hasn't scored less than 40 in years btw] with at least 15 assists.

Hazard's best season in the league hasn't been more than 16 league goals, and overall no more than 25 goals.

He will have to match what Messi does to be better than him, and despite his ability he won't be doing that imo.

For the last 9 seasons he's scored

45,54,41,58,41,60,73,53,47. avg of 52 goals a year per 52 matches. For a player who has ''declined'' that is a remarkable statistic, and only Ronaldo comes close.

Btw Messi has scored 8 goals already in 8 appearances, and we've only gotten to the end of September



Come on, you've got to take La Liga goal records with a pinch of salt. Real and Barca (and to a lesser extent Atleti) have got so much more resources than the rest of the league it's just a turkey shoot (with very rare upsets like last night). Put Man City, Liverpool and Spurs in the English League 2 and see how many goals Aguero, Salah and Kane score. That'll be a more accurate comparison than comparing Hazard's goal tally with a La Liga player's.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4389 on: September 27, 2018, 05:14:00 pm »
Come on, you've got to take La Liga goal records with a pinch of salt. Real and Barca (and to a lesser extent Atleti) have got so much more resources than the rest of the league it's just a turkey shoot (with very rare upsets like last night). Put Man City, Liverpool and Spurs in the English League 2 and see how many goals Aguero, Salah and Kane score. That'll be a more accurate comparison than comparing Hazard's goal tally with a La Liga player's.

The best players in the world play in Spain. The same league that has dominated European football for the last decade.

Put Messi in England and he'd be scoring the same amount as he has currently, because the defending isn't any better in England than it is in Spain.


Absolute bollocks comparing La Liga to the 3rd division of English football, what on earth are you on about?

Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4390 on: September 27, 2018, 05:17:56 pm »
The best players in the world play in Spain. The same league that has dominated European football for the last decade.

Put Messi in England and he'd be scoring the same amount as he has currently, because the defending isn't any better in England than it is in Spain.


Absolute bollocks comparing La Liga to the 3rd division of English football, what on earth are you on about?

The best players in the world play for those 3 Spanish teams I mentioned. Against a bunch of teams with a tiny fraction of their resources.

Messi would be by far the best player in the PL but the league wouldn't be such a turkey shoot for him - he'd have worse team mates ("the best players in the world play in Spain", remember) and wouldn't have so many turkey shoots, given the more even spread of resources in the PL.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4391 on: September 27, 2018, 05:18:20 pm »
Come on, you've got to take La Liga goal records with a pinch of salt. Real and Barca (and to a lesser extent Atleti) have got so much more resources than the rest of the league it's just a turkey shoot (with very rare upsets like last night). Put Man City, Liverpool and Spurs in the English League 2 and see how many goals Aguero, Salah and Kane score. That'll be a more accurate comparison than comparing Hazard's goal tally with a La Liga player's.

Are you really comparing La Liga to League 2?!

La Liga has dominated European football for years, and not just Real and Barca. Atletico, Sevilla and Valencia have all won trophies.

Speaking of Valencia. Currently winless in La Liga and sitting in 16th place. Yet they beat Spurs...
And if the rain stops, and everything's dry.. she would cry, just so I could drink tears from her eyes.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4392 on: September 27, 2018, 05:23:38 pm »
Are you really comparing La Liga to League 2?!

La Liga has dominated European football for years, and not just Real and Barca. Atletico, Sevilla and Valencia have all won trophies.

Speaking of Valencia. Currently winless in La Liga and sitting in 16th place. Yet they beat Spurs...

Used a bit of poetic license to stress the point about 3 massively resourced teams playing in a league full of teams with only a tiny fraction of those resources ;D

Do you agree with the spirit of my point - that the resources (players, money, clout) are much more unequal (i.e. concentrated at a small handful of clubs) in La Liga than the PL? And thus making comparing a PL players goal return to the goal return from a player at one of those elite La Liga clubs a weak comparison?

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4393 on: September 27, 2018, 05:24:39 pm »
Champions League winners since 2008

2008 - Man United
2009 - Barcelona
2010 - Inter
2011 - Barcelona
2012 - Chelsea
2013 - Bayern
2014 - Real Madrid
2015 - Barcelona
2016 - Real Madrid
2017 - Real Madrid
2018 - Real Madrid

UEFA League Winners since 2008

2008-Zenit
2009-Shaktar
2010-Atletico Madrid
2011-Porto
2012-Atletico
2013-Chelsea
2014-Sevilla
2015-Sevilla
2016-Sevilla
2017-Man United
2018-Atletico Madrid

aka the English League 2

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4394 on: September 27, 2018, 05:29:39 pm »
Used a bit of poetic license to stress the point about 3 massively resourced teams playing in a league full of teams with only a tiny fraction of those resources ;D

Do you agree with the spirit of my point - that the resources (players, money, clout) are much more unequal (i.e. concentrated at a small handful of clubs) in La Liga than the PL? And thus making comparing a PL players goal return to the goal return from a player at one of those elite La Liga clubs a weak comparison?

Are you seriously talking about the resources and then using England as a better example? Who has won the league in the last ten years? And how were the resources from those sides compared to the rest of the league?

2008- United
2009- United
2010- Chelsea
2011- United
2012- City
2013- United
2014- City
2015- Chelsea
2016- Leicester
2017- Chelsea
2018- City

Bare the miracle from Leicester, do tell how resources are soooooooooooo much better in England and help the rest of the league in comparison?

The likes of Chelsea,City,United have been winning the league on shoe string budgets ?

Your argument is deeply flawed and ludicrous

Hazard has averaged 15 goals a season [in all competitions] since he's been at Chelsea. And you think that Messi in England couldn't score 25? In a league where Mo Salah just scored 32 last year?

« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 05:32:09 pm by deFacto »

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4395 on: September 27, 2018, 05:39:46 pm »
Are you seriously talking about the resources and then using England as a better example? Who has won the league in the last ten years? And how were the resources from those sides compared to the rest of the league?

2008- United
2009- United
2010- Chelsea
2011- United
2012- City
2013- United
2014- City
2015- Chelsea
2016- Leicester
2017- Chelsea
2018- City

Bare the miracle from Leicester, do tell how resources are soooooooooooo much better in England and help the rest of the league in comparison?

The likes of Chelsea,City,United have been winning the league on shoe string budgets ?

Your argument is deeply flawed and ludicrous


Sorry, are you actually saying that the spread of wealth and resources isn't more equal in the PL than La Liga? Pointing to the eventual winner is irrelevant in determining how evenly the resources are spread throughout the league.


Hazard has averaged 15 goals a season [in all competitions] since he's been at Chelsea. And you think that Messi in England couldn't score 25? In a league where Mo Salah just scored 32 last year?



Now you're just making stuff up about what I've said - I already said that Messi would be by far the best player in the PL. Comparing La Liga goals scored to PL goals scored is just silly though, you know, what with the much bigger disparity between teams out there.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4396 on: September 27, 2018, 05:47:09 pm »
Quote
Comparing La Liga goals scored to PL goals scored is just silly though

Comparing La Liga to the bloody 3rd division of English Football is the definition of silly!!!! Through all of the years that I've spent on here, this is one of the most daft things I've come across on here.

Quote
Sorry, are you actually saying that the spread of wealth and resources isn't more equal in the PL than La Liga? Pointing to the eventual winner is irrelevant in determining how evenly the resources are spread throughout the league.

How can the resources that City,Chelsea United be equal to what the rest of the league has? So are you telling me that Newcastle,Southampton,Cardiff have the same resources as those 3? What are you on about?

The best players play for the wealthiest clubs in football, in England there happens to be more money pumped in and invested than in Spain HOWEVER that doesn't mean that English football is so MUCH better than Spanish football, let alone it being compared to the 3rd division of English football.

Spanish football has dominated European and World Football for a period of about 4 straight years [2008,2010,2012], even if you ignore the number of Spanish clubs that have been successful in club football in the last decade on a consistent basis.

If you want to ignore what they've done for their clubs in Spain, then look what has happened in other club competitions against the mighty English behemoths.

How has Messi fared in European football? Against the very best?

How has Hazard fared  in European football against the very best?



« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 05:49:00 pm by deFacto »

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4397 on: September 27, 2018, 06:03:55 pm »
Comparing La Liga to the bloody 3rd division of English Football is the definition of silly!!!! Through all of the years that I've spent on here, this is one of the most daft things I've come across on here.

Maybe focus on the the point (that the PL has resources spread out more evenly than La Liga) instead of completely twisting a throwaway comment to highlight the disparity of resources in La Liga.


How can the resources that City,Chelsea United be equal to what the rest of the league has? So are you telling me that Newcastle,Southampton,Cardiff have the same resources as those 3? What are you on about?

The best players play for the wealthiest clubs in football, in England there happens to be more money pumped in and invested than in Spain HOWEVER that doesn't mean that English football is so MUCH better than Spanish football, let alone it being compared to the 3rd division of English football.

Spanish football has dominated European and World Football for a period of about 4 straight years [2008,2010,2012], even if you ignore the number of Spanish clubs that have been successful in club football in the last decade on a consistent basis.

If you want to ignore what they've done for their clubs in Spain, then look what has happened in other club competitions against the mighty English behemoths.


The top clubs in England do have more resources than rest of the league, there's just not as much of disparity as the La Liga top 3 has with the rest of their league. Decades of sharing the TV money more equally does that.

The best La Liga clubs have definitely been better than the best PL clubs over the last decade, that's not in question, so not sure why you keep bringing up the fact they've been winning the European pots. That's irrelevant to discussing whether most of the resources are concentrated in La Liga's top 3 clubs compared with the top 3 clubs in England (who even are the top 3 in England anyway? There's a top 6 which in itself suggests a more even distribution of resources, and that's before we even get into the bottom half clubs in England getting a more equal share of the resources).

How has Messi fared in European football? Against the very best?

How has Hazard fared  in European football against the very best?


Messi's much better than Hazzard - dont know how many different ways I can say this to you before it penetrates. Doesn't change the fact that it's easier to score more league goals as the main man at one of Spains big 3 (against the comparitive cannon fodder) than it is for the main man at any of the top English clubs in the PL. So it's pointless using La Liga goals scored v PL goals scored as a comparitor.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4398 on: September 27, 2018, 06:19:31 pm »
La Liga teams (other than Real and Barca who people usually complain about) regularly beat English teams in Europe. REGULARLY. It is immediately forgotten and a week later people are pretending that Barca and Madrid play farmers every week.

Valencia are currently really struggling. If they go ahead and beat ManU, what will people say? They won't see it as a sign of the strength of La Liga. Fairly ordinary La Liga teams have done well vs English top teams, Sevilla of the past 2-3 years are not a patch to the great Sevilla sides before, yet, they won their games vs Liverpool and ManU. They beat Juventus, too. Let's put it this way, no Spanish team is easy to beat in Europe. In England, if a team achieves a fraction of what the likes of Sevilla did, they are immediately counted as one of the best clubs in Europe. For example, I just don't see how Spurs are any better than some of the past Sevilla teams we have witnessed (the one with Dani Alves, the later ones, Baptistao, Reyes etc.).

Even if you doubt quality of the Spanish league, you cannot refute the fact that the same teams/players regularly do it vs Europe's best.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4399 on: September 27, 2018, 06:22:59 pm »
Valencia are currently really struggling. If they go ahead and beat ManU, what will people say?

Mate, we'll be too busy laughing our fucking heads off to say anything!