Topic: Sadio Mané

[El Lobo]

People are criticising Mane and Salah right? Like genuinely, I’m not missing the punchline here?

[sms1986]

@GFFN
Mohamed Salah on Roberto Firmino & Sadio Mané: "We are friends, we speak a lot. Generally, all 3 of us sit in the dressing room together, right after matches. There is a real solidarity between us, as we do not care who scores the most or first." (FF)

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1041692445627564037?s=19

[cornishscouser92]

Seen plenty of talk about Eden Hazard being the best player in the PL. Sadio Mane has end product better stats.

Mane V Hazard.

[Rush 82]

People are criticising Mane and Salah right? Like genuinely, I’m not missing the punchline here?

It's 

[newterp]

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1041692445627564037?s=19

ooooooo - he said generally!!

[88_RED]

Seen plenty of talk about Eden Hazard being the best player in the PL. Sadio Mane has end product better stats.

Mane V Hazard.

Mane doesn't play for a fashionable and posh London club mate.. I wouldnt trade him for Hazard..

[lgvkarlos]

Honestly not getting the Mane criticism , he's looked excellent this season.

[Korbflechter]

I meant to say here and elsewhere, but I think he does, or certainly did during parts of last season. I didn't say he doesn't get praised either, clearly he does. But it's interesting that Mané is being criticised for poor decision-making on Saturday, whilst Salah's thread remains on page two, despite Mané playing a big part in both goals and taking multiple hits for the team (he was fouled six times, no one else was more than twice for us).

On Salah I would have to disagree also. He wasn't tracking back much in the first half at all, hence why Rose had so much space down their side (which he used pretty poorly, but the space was there, and it's something for Klopp to consider with us facing Alonso and Mendy in the forthcoming weeks). This is clearly a tactical instruction from Klopp, as we see it in the vast majority of games, but I do think it should be taken into consideration when comparing Salah and Mané. Essentially, I expect Salah to be more ruthless than Mané because he expands less energy in terms of defensive shape and ball recovery. He's the player we 'cheat' with, so we need him to take advantage of that more often than not, otherwise the fragility we expose ourselves to down our right-side suddenly doesn't feel as worth it.* This isn't really the case down our left, where Mané puts in a real shift.

*Salah will come good, clearly. We cheat with him because he's our best player. I'm merely pointing out why I don't think it's fair to judge the two players completely equally.

I think you have to draw a clear distinction here. I'm one of those criticising Mané for his decision making (not only for this season so far but for the previous ones as well) and I'll explain why.

But first of all, I think it needs to be stated that criticising his decisions in the final third is not equal to claiming he sucks or whatever. It should always be relative to a player's capability. And this guy is capable of almost anything on a football pitch. So that puts him right up there in the top bracket of players worldwide, with the potential to become the very best once Messi starts declining. But therefore, he needs to improve on his decision making drastically. It's basically the only part of his game that is lagging behind, but it holds him back so far to not even be in consideration for Top 5 Ballon d'Or wise.
Him and Salah can make the difference against any team, we all know that. Salah did make it many times last season, too. But they're both not up there yet and they should be quickly because in the upcoming run of games bad decisions (especially ego-trips) could be costly. And that would be a frustrating reason for not winning a game. The talent is just too great on this squad.

[RedForeverTT]

I was quite puzzled why Mane and Salah was doing so much defensive work. I think one could just keep the their central defenders honest by standing near the halfway line. There was really no need for both to come back to defend and tire themselves out before the 70th minute.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I was quite puzzled why Mane and Salah was doing so much defensive work. I think one could just keep the their central defenders honest by standing near the halfway line. There was really no need for both to come back to defend and tire themselves out before the 70th minute.

There was a need for it because Spurs are a dangerous side and you can't allow them the space to utilize, Klopp touched on this in his presser, had we played 5 percent less than what we did, we would have lost. [his words]

[rscanderlech]

Seen plenty of talk about Eden Hazard being the best player in the PL. Sadio Mane has end product better stats.

Mane V Hazard.

I don’t know whether Hazard is the best in the PL or whatever, but, with all due respect to Mane, Hazard is a superior player. He is a superior dribbler, superior passer, is superior technically in a general sense. What Hazard has lacked is the goalscorer’s sense, but he would have looked brilliant in a more exciting team over the years.

I don’t think the comparison is ridiculous, though. But Mane probably hasn’t got the same pure talent to affect situations and relies more therefore on being in a team that’s perfect for him.

That said, I think Coutinho has been above Hazard for about two years. De Bruyne, also, for at least a year. Salah, since he came to the PL, ie a year. So quite a few players in the PL in the last year have been better than Hazard...

[MNAA]

Mane is great. Our front 3 is fantastic. Greed is good. They have not hit top form yet. People forget that they were not on fire from start until the end last season. Mane in fact was unplayable early on, off form after suspension and injury and only back to his best towards the end of the season.

People need to relax. There’s no need to be fretful

[Sinyoro]

Great player but his nonchalance concerns me

[TepidT2O]

Great player but his nonchalance concerns me

It’s what makes him so great

[the_red_pill]

Great player but his nonchalance concerns me

Mane creates many goals for himself and others. I think we can allow him that. Like many forwards- when he's off, his really OFF.

He'll hit +25 this season in all comps Im sure- and sofar he's started the season well.

[Rush 82]

I think you have to draw a clear distinction here. I'm one of those criticising Mané for his decision making (not only for this season so far but for the previous ones as well) and I'll explain why.

But first of all, I think it needs to be stated that criticising his decisions in the final third is not equal to claiming he sucks or whatever. It should always be relative to a player's capability. And this guy is capable of almost anything on a football pitch. So that puts him right up there in the top bracket of players worldwide, with the potential to become the very best once Messi starts declining. But therefore, he needs to improve on his decision making drastically. It's basically the only part of his game that is lagging behind, but it holds him back so far to not even be in consideration for Top 5 Ballon d'Or wise.
Him and Salah can make the difference against any team, we all know that. Salah did make it many times last season, too. But they're both not up there yet and they should be quickly because in the upcoming run of games bad decisions (especially ego-trips) could be costly. And that would be a frustrating reason for not winning a game. The talent is just too great on this squad.

Great post until you said 'ego trips' - on what basis do you attribute poor decisions to ego when neither has demonstrated in their public utterances and behavior that they are 'ego driven'?

[Korbflechter]

Great post until you said 'ego trips' - on what basis do you attribute poor decisions to ego when neither has demonstrated in their public utterances and behavior that they are 'ego driven'?

Of course I've just had the subjective impression and I'm not saying they are definitely on them (if so, it's only occasionally). I don't attribute every poor decision to ego and not even every decision to shoot rather than pass.
Maybe we can agree that the general statement about ego-trips is correct? No matter whether you see hints of it happening or not. I've seen some stuff that worries me a bit but I think Klopp will address it and we'll see them reach new heights very soon. But if nothing be done about it, I think we might just see some more frustrating performances in front of goal like we did at Tottenham. And it did frustrate even Klopp, who's usually more happy about the creation of chances than getting mad about wasting a few. So something must have been going wrong there.
In case you're interested I could invest some work and put together a couple of examples from the past where Mané's play has frustrated me and his (and Salah's sometimes as well) utterances have worried me. (But english is my second language, so it would take me a little more time than it would in german and I can't bring myself to do it if nobody is that interested )
Mané will always be alright, he's just too good not to be, don't get me wrong. It's just, these guys are incredible and they can totally tear apart world football if they sort this out. Alas, they're not even far away from it.

[Rush 82]

Of course I've just had the subjective impression and I'm not saying they are definitely on them (if so, it's only occasionally). I don't attribute every poor decision to ego and not even every decision to shoot rather than pass.
Maybe we can agree that the general statement about ego-trips is correct? No matter whether you see hints of it happening or not. I've seen some stuff that worries me a bit but I think Klopp will address it and we'll see them reach new heights very soon. But if nothing be done about it, I think we might just see some more frustrating performances in front of goal like we did at Tottenham. And it did frustrate even Klopp, who's usually more happy about the creation of chances than getting mad about wasting a few. So something must have been going wrong there.
In case you're interested I could invest some work and put together a couple of examples from the past where Mané's play has frustrated me and his (and Salah's sometimes as well) utterances have worried me. (But english is my second language, so it would take me a little more time than it would in german and I can't bring myself to do it if nobody is that interested )
Mané will always be alright, he's just too good not to be, don't get me wrong. It's just, these guys are incredible and they can totally tear apart world football if they sort this out. Alas, they're not even far away from it.

Fair enough.

I just don't think that ego is at the root for either of those two - unlike Neymar or Kane for instance.

[Korbflechter]

Fair enough.

I just don't think that ego is at the root for either of those two - unlike Neymar or Kane for instance.

Well, surely not comparable to the way those two go about their play. But I felt one could sense in preseason how Mané didn't really like the hype around Mo wherever they went and maybe felt a little underappreciated. Then there was the talk about their goalscoring competition. And then there were the first couple of games, peaking on Saturday at Wembley. I wouldn't be surprised if it stopped already tonight, because don't mess with Kloppo. But to me, it definitely needs to.

[Kansti]

My boy is going to wreak havoc on them french pussies.

[Jookie]

I don’t know whether Hazard is the best in the PL or whatever, but, with all due respect to Mane, Hazard is a superior player. He is a superior dribbler, superior passer, is superior technically in a general sense. What Hazard has lacked is the goalscorer’s sense, but he would have looked brilliant in a more exciting team over the years.

I don’t think the comparison is ridiculous, though. But Mane probably hasn’t got the same pure talent to affect situations and relies more therefore on being in a team that’s perfect for him.

That said, I think Coutinho has been above Hazard for about two years. De Bruyne, also, for at least a year. Salah, since he came to the PL, ie a year. So quite a few players in the PL in the last year have been better than Hazard...

Agree with most of this. Hazard is a really brilliant player, who probably should score more than he does. Was that tactical or a failing on Hazard's part? We'll know more this season under an attacking coach in Sarri. He's been the fulcrum and main creative threat for a Chelsea team that has won 2 out of the last 4 league titles. Mane is a brilliant player too. Just slightly behind Hazard in my opinion.

Where is disagree is around Coutinho. Again a brilliant player but not as consistently as good as Hazard. Coutinho was at his best when he was an important cog in the wheel but not when he was the player the team was built around. Hazard has shown to be the star man in 3 league title wins (2 x Chelsea and 1 x Lille). He's basically been the best player on the team that has won the league in those seasons (arguably Costa for one of the Chelsea wins). Coutinho felt like he was getting to that level in his last 6-12 months at Liverpool but he wasn't there yet.

For me, Hazard, De Bruyne, Kane and Salah are the best 4 attacking players in the country. Think you have Sterling, Mane, Silva, Aguero, Firmino, Eriksen in the group behind that. Lukaku, Sane, Jesus, Ozil, Ali, Aubemayang, Son, Sanchez, Willian in the next group.

I would say we have 3 out of the best 10 'attacking' players in the league. Spurs 2, City 4 and United 1 (Lukaku). It shows the strength of our front 3 but also how good City are. When you start looking at the next set of forward players, they have another 2 and I'd say we have none.

[CraigDS]

I'd definitely not swap Mane for Hazard.

He brings so much more direct play, which compliments our other two attackers perfectly, and just terrifies players when he runs at them.

Plus if people think Mane has been selfish then they'd have a field day with Hazard.

[Kansti]

I'd definitely not swap Mane for Hazard.

He brings so much more direct play, which compliments our other two attackers perfectly, and just terrifies players when he runs at them.

Plus if people think Mane has been selfish then they'd have a field day with Hazard.

Agreed. Hazard might be more twinkle-toed, and more consistent technically, but Mane brings you both aggression and acceleration, attributes that are honestly quite hard to find in wingers these days. Hazard is more of a "I'm gonna dance around you" kinda guy, Mane is like "I'm getting past you, that's all".

[Jookie]

I'd definitely not swap Mane for Hazard.

He brings so much more direct play, which compliments our other two attackers perfectly, and just terrifies players when he runs at them.

Plus if people think Mane has been selfish then they'd have a field day with Hazard.

I don't think I'd swap any of our front 3 for any players in the World. Mainly because they suit our style of play and compliment each other. Well maybe Messi!

In saying that, comparing Hazard in isolation to Mane i'd say Hazard is a better player. Same when comparing Firmino and Kane. Kane is the better striker in isolation. In our system and alongside the other 2 I'd have Firmino. He's integral to our system though Kane would still be good alongside Salah and Mane.

[christofu]

I don't think I'd swap any of our front 3 for any players in the World. Mainly because they suit our style of play and compliment each other. Well maybe Messi!

In saying that, comparing Hazard in isolation to Mane i'd say Hazard is a better player. Same when comparing Firmino and Kane. Kane is the better striker in isolation. In our system and alongside the other 2 I'd have Firmino. He's integral to our system though Kane would still be good alongside Salah and Mane.

I personally think comparing mane and hazard is like comparing apples and oranges. Hazard just looks better to the eye due to his ability to beat a player (he seems to try to do it more the less the style of the team suits him, and also loves a sulk when he has to do more defending than he feels he needs to.) And I dont see his output as being greater than mane despite all that jazz

Sadio is like having 2 players in 1 - His defensive contribution has been colossal over the past year or so, he's effectively a midfielder off the ball and then we go forward and he's in the box constantly taking up striker positions. (I think keita has helped release him to get into those forward positions a little more). Some really important goals and leadership at the business end of the season to boot. I genuinely think he would boss any position in the front 5. BIG player

re kane and firmino, I agree I think kane would fit well in between salah and mane. Firmino's off-the-ball work is ridiculous, I don't remember too many players like him who can also knit the play together and score goals.

I would be comparing hazard more with and salah (and I know which one I would rather have!)

[Larse]

That was a piece of magic he created when he almost scored that goal. chiped it over to defender and through the goalkeepers legs. Would have loved that to go in.

[Chalky Boots]

I'd definitely not swap Mane for Hazard.

He brings so much more direct play, which compliments our other two attackers perfectly, and just terrifies players when he runs at them.

Plus if people think Mane has been selfish then they'd have a field day with Hazard.

The thing about Mane is that he's also off-the-cuff, 'Black Suarez Mane' as that Arsenal fan said once. He's hard to read in a lot of situations. I like Hazard but at the same time I do think we'd have to compensate for him again much like we had to for Coutinho who didn't have the aerobic capability to maintain the team shape required to be consistently stable and coiled in defensive and offensive situations.

[jepovic]

Loved it when he absolutely annihilated Neymar with that dribble.

[sminp]

Loved it when he absolutely annihilated Neymar with that dribble.

Hopefully someone will make a GIF of this, was brilliant

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Another game where he's shut down a flank against a world class forward. I still think there is room for improvement going forward but he is an absolute monster without the ball. He's a bit of a throwback to Kuyt on the other wing under Benitez - all the physicality to press and harass allied with the spatial awareness to close down passing lanes when the press is not on.

[rscanderlech]

Another game where he's shut down a flank against a world class forward. I still think there is room for improvement going forward but he is an absolute monster without the ball. He's a bit of a throwback to Kuyt on the other wing under Benitez - all the physicality to press and harass allied with the spatial awareness to close down passing lanes when the press is not on.

I'm not sure how much more he can improve going forward. A little bit, for sure--and the front three aren't at their best yet, anyway.

But players have ceilings and Mane, at 26, is probably quite close to his.

[rscanderlech]

Hopefully someone will make a GIF of this, was brilliant

All over Twitter

[jepovic]

https://giphy.com/gifs/1APafh3oduySqEDg8w

[tea_tree]

I'm not sure how much more he can improve going forward. A little bit, for sure--and the front three aren't at their best yet, anyway.

But players have ceilings and Mane, at 26, is probably quite close to his.

It always baffles me when people make statements like this. On what basis is he close to his ceiling?

[aggerdid]

Once salah went off it felt like mane went to number 10. Really started to dictate every attack

[Kansti]

After they scored the equaliser, Mane went full on in beast mode overdrive. I know football is a collective sport, but I absolutely love it when Mane decides to just be the main man.

[AndyMuller]

I love him but he does drive me mad at times aswell. He can hold on to the ball a bit too long when the easy pass is on and then lose it.

Still love him like obviously.

[Clayton Bigsby]

I think he is the best of the 3 musketeers in terms of ability. Was really on it yesterday

[Vinay]

I think he is the best of the 3 musketeers in terms of ability. Was really on it yesterday

In terms of ability and football technique, Firmino is incomparable.
Physically, Mane is unparalleled even in the whole league - the closest to him would be Troy Deeney, who just doesn't have the same ability and skills set though.

[PhilV]

When he skinned Neymar at the edge of their box 

I feel like he's stepped it up a level from last year, and still has more to give I think as the front 3 haven't looked as cohesive but still banging them in, so so happy for him and for us as a fanbase