Author Topic: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger  (Read 15564 times)

Offline Hinesy

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From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« on: June 2, 2012, 01:30:23 pm »
Just an excuse for another punning title really... but here's my thoughts right now and it leads back to my We're all hypocrites thread.
I'll put my hand up now and say I thought Hodgson was a shrewd move for Liverpool, he knew the Premiership, he was steeped in the history of the game and a steady old hand on the tiller after the Rafa viscittudes, swinging this way and that.. But then it didn't work out and I can't work it out still... He seemed not to 'get' Liverpool, certainly not the fans.
But when he was removed, and with less time and more brutally than Dalglish was, we didn't care. We thought hurrah, the return of the king, and FSG bought themselves some free goodwill from the fans.. Ah they get us, they've brought one of our own back.

But lets be honest, we shouldn't be listened to at the best of times... I know of people who thought Milan Baros would change the world.. who he ask the under 20's, I thought Diouf would set the world on fire, not try and put one out by spitting at Celtic fans..

And I thought Kenny's return was a dubious honour, until he brought Clarke in, which was astute and reassuring. Here was a motivator coupled with a knowledge of the modern game man. But we played, at times, dreadful football, and whilst I think I would've given him more time, we all acknowledge there was a lot of dissent about Kenny toward the end of the season.

Posts abounded between those who would give him time, arguing its how we do things, as if being a tradition makes it right. But these *(and I) were the same people lauding the sacking of Roy. There were those saying Get rid of Kenny, we're shite and we know it. But then 'Bring back Rafa', the man who for me took us to the top of the hill, and half way down again.

And we said "no, not Brendan bloody Rodgers, manager of what? Oh, there's a team called Swansea (with due respect to the Welsh passers)" and then "Hmm I'm excited for our new future".

We bemoan FSG for not having a plan in place before Kenny's sacking but equally would find it utterly disrespectful if they had had a plan in place. We complain when they want to interview, and put in place a DOF and a TD, and WTF etc and say we should just have a single minded manager, but then almost mock Rodgers' immodest "I'm not being part of an interview process" then admire him for his press conference whilst hating one of his mentors, Jose.

And I'm writing this because frankly I don't know what the fuck to think. I'm as bad as every Liverpool fan who shouts and knee jerks like a 2 yr old not getting the lollipop at the checkout. Kenny sacked? Outfuckinrageous. ooh a new plan? Great! FSG have it sorted, oh they don't, yes they do.

None of us can come out of this with any gloss but then again what else could've happened? We're the best fans in the world but we're the most fickle fans in the world, lets not kid ourselves.

What would have been the best way to do this?

FSG decide some months ago, Kenny should stop come the end of the season. They put a new manager search into operation. Sack KD, annouce the one. Result: We look decisive. No! We look disrespectful.

FSG decide some months ago, Kenny should stop come the end of the season. They don't put a new manager search in place. Then they let him go and start the process. Result: They look clueless. No! They look respectful and wise taking their time.

FSG decide there's a new structure to be put in place: DOF etc. Result: ooh Manchester City style new modern approach the game. No! Yanks without a clue.

FSG decide there's new structure to be put in place but new manager says no. Result: They've listened to their new man and let him manage. No! They're clueless and wishy washy.

I'm not fan of them, but I'm not not a fan of them. If I'm in a fuddle, fuck knows what they think right now...
Yep.

Offline No666

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #1 on: June 2, 2012, 02:59:44 pm »
You know hinesy, (had to correct the auto-spelling three times; it wants me to call you 'honey') it's been a different kettle of cod for me since yesterday. We always said we'd keep a watching brief and no more. We have. And thanks to Brendan Rodgers's press conferences yesterday my watching and my briefs are back in the drawer for a bit. Why? Because he actually gave us the coherent vision of the future that we all wanted and which FSG has not provided through a series of fudges or lack of knowledge. Yesterday, Roy wrote an elegant post and hey-hendo! it was as if Level 3 was back. Certainly, we were back to talking (or in my case, mainly listening) about the football again. I hadn't realised how much I'd missed that. (I couldn't talk about the football when Kenny was doing badly. Couldn't enter the threads. It hurt too much for reasoned analysis while the pipsqueaks gnawed at him.) For now, for me, there's a feeling akin to relief. We were torn apart over a period of three years. No wonder it's taking as long to put us back together again.

Offline Hinesy

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #2 on: June 2, 2012, 07:15:47 pm »
Good points 6sy, I think he did give a vision but I'm in a muddle about to what to make of the owners.. time will tell...
Yep.

Offline Jellies

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #3 on: June 2, 2012, 07:25:32 pm »
I think you'll find a lot of us are in the same situation. We chased the last owners out, and we certainly still have some scars from that; the most prominent is our inability that our new owners don't have to be treated as the new Messiah nor Satan himself. Maybe they're not extremely good or extremely bad for the club. Maybe they're a stable, mediocre group, but nonetheless a group that could take us places if they make the right decisions.

I often wonder what owners we would prefer on here, because sometimes it seems that FSG can't do anything right in our eyes. My advice? Let's wait and see. Our first objective is being supporters. As always we should focus on supporting the club. And I must, like you, admit that I supported Hodgson from the start. Hell, I supported him till the day he got the boot. Only to look at the situation at the point and acknowledge that it was the only way possible for us. But I don't regret that. We should support untill our football club is seemingly in danger. If something isn't done the Liverpool way, if we play negative football, if a talent like Hendo isn't playing well or if we are in the relegation zone, it's okay to complain, but first you should take a step back and consider if it's worth splitting the fan base to voice your complain. Most of the time, it won't be. Most of the time, we're just spoiled brats.

Offline Il Capitano

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #4 on: June 2, 2012, 08:00:32 pm »
The fact is that we're had three years of difficulty on the pitch, and much adversity off of it. The happiest I've seen Liverpool fans in that period was when we had the excellent four months when Kenny came back, when we saw sight of the progress we've been longing for. I think until we reach that point again when things are back on the up, the fanbase is still going to be unhappy, be divided and frequently argue amongst itself - and in the meantime we've seen far too many false dawns to make any big assumptions about how Rodgers' tenure as LFC manager will pan out. Hopefully once the playing staff start to click on the pitch and we're in contention for a higher finishing position in the league, there will be a better feel-good feeling around the fanbase.

Offline GODS LEFT BOOT

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #5 on: June 2, 2012, 08:55:20 pm »
I'm just going to enjoy the football for a while - its been years now with out serious off field / emotional stuff  -  the new man looks like he knows what hes doing, let him get on with it and have a kick about
If my assistant had not signalled a goal, I would have given a penalty and sent off goalkeeper Patr Cheh. he beeped me to signal the foul. The noise from the crowd  stopped me hearing it, I have been involved at places like Barcelona, Ibrox, Old Trafford, Arsenal, but I've never in my life been involved in such an atmosphere. IT WAS INCREDIBLE

Offline Hyypia headers

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #6 on: June 2, 2012, 09:10:25 pm »
Good post. I'm going to keep doing what I' ve been doing for the last few years. Sit back, enjoy the game, and don't bother about all the rest of it. We' ll be allright.

Let me tell you about the times when tackling was allowed

Offline shelovesyou

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #7 on: June 2, 2012, 09:21:54 pm »
Nailed it one post there hinesy , we're all guilty of it, double standards etc, but we all want the same thing.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #8 on: June 2, 2012, 09:27:51 pm »
To add to Hodgson, A guy I know to chat to was a youth coach at Fulham during the Roy's time and although I was unhappy about the way Rafa went, I sounded him out over Roy because to be fair Fulham had a good season and reached the Euro final. His words were maybe prophetic, Roy is a good tactician and decent guy to work with, but will the players and fans get him in Liverpool.

Now Roy was a disaster from the start for us we had the incident right from the beginning were Purslow had not told him Insua had been sold or loaned out? Roy selected him for his squad if I remember, this immediately developed the bumbling Roy for a lot of us, or the Purslow is calling the tune idea, but if some of us if we are totally honest were looking for reasons to dislike him anyway.

After that his press conferences were poor, the team played awful football, but would it have been different if we had beaten Arsenal in that first game?
From then onwards Roy alienated himself from us more and more with his comments well documented in here and that and the stay away fans finished him!

The comparison to Brendan is similar but also like chalk and cheese, Brendan has come in again after a legend is sacked somewhat unjustly to many ( but I dont want to discuss this in here its been done to death now)  The contrast however is that Brendan looks like someone who is well able to move us forward straight away, however all the optimism for him may quickly fade if results go against him, this could allow the angst at the way Kenny went to become more vocal again!

I have to add that I dont think Brendan will come unstuck next season,  but I was working on worse case scenario, but if it was a terrible start to the season its alright for Werner or Ayres to say it will take time our fans and the media will not give him this time.

In the end though I hope we see some of the football we saw from Swansea only better quality and better finishing, and I hope finally in the end we can totally all get behind Brendan Rodgers as the manager of this club, i have had enough of fights against owners and between ourselves, I simply want to try to enjoy again a game that I have been losing my passion for recently!
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #9 on: June 2, 2012, 09:29:35 pm »
Agree fully with that. Couldn't tell you if they are good for the club or not at this point in time. My eyes are telling me they have made some good decisions but I listen to some posters on here and they have a real dislike for them so I'm torn and a bit wary.

Having said that it all comes down to results on the pitch. Don't hear too many toon fans screaming Ashley out after last season.
From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline B0151?

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #10 on: June 2, 2012, 09:31:58 pm »
If we're playing, or attempting to play, good football I feel that our fans will give him a chance. We just finished 8th. With Hodgson we were playing shit football and he was the replacement for our most successful manager in years. And he was a gobshite. Rodgers doesn't seem like a gobshite.

I don't think we ever played dreadful football under Kenny to be fair. We played dreadful at times but for the most part we were still trying to play a passing game. We usually competed quite well just couldn't actually win matches.

I think with the owners, it is simply down to whether we're doing well. The fans will go at the owners before they go at Rodgers I think. Not saying that just because we might be doing well they're perfect, but if we are doing well no-one will care. Like the above post mentioned with Ashley.
« Last Edit: June 2, 2012, 09:37:23 pm by Bakez0151 »

Offline archie

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #11 on: June 2, 2012, 09:40:11 pm »
A refreshing honesty Hinesy and points that I’m sure resonate with many.

Indeed, this is the modern way now. Everything is seen as black or white, with people using extremes to explain or back up their views.

It’s the same with the first team and results. Lose a couple (or god forbid draw with someone lower down the table) the team is shite, everyone is a disgrace, let’s rip it up and start again.

A couple of good wins, everyone is the dogs bollocks. We have a side capable of competing, only needs a tweak here and there. Bring it on next season etc.

Look at the post match threads of our last 2 league fixtures. (in fact don’t bother, avoid all post match threads  :P)


Even last year when J Henry was tweeting the shit out of himself, some loved it others cringed.

Some will never be on board (fully) with the owners (I’d probably include myself in that) for a variety of reasons that have been discussed in a range of different threads. 

Others appear, to me at least, to be much more trusting. Fair play, that’s the way they see it and are entitled to.


A lot of water has gone under the bridge, on and off the field, since they moved in and it’s only now that I think (hope) that they are beginning to implement the things they want. 

Ultimately, time will tell and history/internet terrorists  ;) will be their judge.

The difficult thing is that we are at the start of this now and no-one truly knows what is going to happen. For some that is exciting, for others a sense of foreboding.

What’s important is that no matter our conflicting views is that all who write on these boards genuinely want the same thing. We want to be proud of our great club and see it competing towards the right end of the table.
With that in mind, all of us may have to take a leap of faith (however difficult) that those in charge want the same thing. 

We can argue the toss over them in here, let’s just do our job and get behind the manager and the players like never before.

Offline OrangeMochaFraps

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #12 on: June 2, 2012, 10:19:10 pm »
I guess being in America and far away from the heart of the situation gives me a different view, but what all have FSG done wrong?  Fired Kenny?  They aren't putting us in debt, they are clearly willing to invest in the club, and they are expanding Liverpool's brand.

This isn't flaming, it's an honest question.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #13 on: June 2, 2012, 10:26:56 pm »
I guess being in America and far away from the heart of the situation gives me a different view, but what all have FSG done wrong?  Fired Kenny?  They aren't putting us in debt, they are clearly willing to invest in the club, and they are expanding Liverpool's brand.

This isn't flaming, it's an honest question.

no offence but your first line answers your question,

to you nothing wrong, but we have been burnt once so are more skeptical but this is not what the thread is about really it is the fickleness of football supporters mindsets, for example Pardew was the son of satan when he first went to Newcastle now they think he is the messiah, if they are not as good next season they will go back to the first opinion of him, the same applies to their owner as well!

Also no offence again but we are a football club with a history and ethos, not a brand!
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline Hyypia headers

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #14 on: June 2, 2012, 10:28:50 pm »
I guess being in America and far away from the heart of the situation gives me a different view, but what all have FSG done wrong?  Fired Kenny?  They aren't putting us in debt, they are clearly willing to invest in the club, and they are expanding Liverpool's brand.

This isn't flaming, it's an honest question.

I agree. They have done their business behind closed doors for aslong as they have been here, they expand the brand, made a massive deal with Warrior. Sacking Kenny was a discussable decision, not a wrong one. The stadium is still an issue, but you can 't get everything done at once. First the structure of the club, than it' s new ground. These people are taking steps to improve us, for the first time in 20 years, we have owners that want to move forward. Atleast give them a proper chance.
Let me tell you about the times when tackling was allowed

Offline Vulmea

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #15 on: June 2, 2012, 11:02:55 pm »
not sure we are all hypocrites - we are all human though and you view things from your own perspective - whether thats hopeful, suspicious or whatever  and of course that perspective can switch and with it your view over time or as new info comes to light

there definately tends to be a lack of balance - internet forums dont lend themselves to grey - its like road rage -  a kind of forum rage - people revert to instinct because they are in their own little bubble and feel safe - the worst of us do the bi-polar thing but I dont think its the norm

FSG have a lot to do for me to build trust - I want  a fan director on the board -  a fan committee that has power to make things happen - I want the supporters to have a stake in our club - until then I wont trust them because their motivations are their own - the management decisions haven't been good enough so far - I dont buy the year zero bollocks they've been around 18 months - I understand though that making mistakes is fair enough - the old saying show me someone who's never made a mistake and I'll show you somebody who has never done anything applies.

If Rodgers goes on to achieve great things with us that does not justify sacking Kenny because we'll never know what Kenny could have achieved in his second full season. It would simply mean they made a correct decision selecting Rodgers hopefully the start of many.
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

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Offline OrangeMochaFraps

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #16 on: June 2, 2012, 11:10:34 pm »
Also no offence again but we are a football club with a history and ethos, not a brand!

None taken; like I said I'm pretty far removed from the football culture of Liverpool right now.

But sadly, in this day and age, don't we have to become a brand in order to keep up with our fans' high expectations?  The less money we make on kit sales, TV rights, and sponsorships, the less we have to spend on new players and stadium upgrades which the fans have been demanding.

Hicks and Gillet fucked us over, no question, but it's unfair to assume that all non-local owners are as selfish, short sighted, and evil.

I do get that football fans are fickle, but I suppose being half a world away and viewing from the outside makes it easier to distinguish the emotionally driven reactions from the valid concerns.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #17 on: June 2, 2012, 11:24:20 pm »
None taken; like I said I'm pretty far removed from the football culture of Liverpool right now.

But sadly, in this day and age, don't we have to become a brand in order to keep up with our fans' high expectations?  The less money we make on kit sales, TV rights, and sponsorships, the less we have to spend on new players and stadium upgrades which the fans have been demanding.

Hicks and Gillet fucked us over, no question, but it's unfair to assume that all non-local owners are as selfish, short sighted, and evil.

I do get that football fans are fickle, but I suppose being half a world away and viewing from the outside makes it easier to distinguish the emotionally driven reactions from the valid concerns.

it means you can be detached but it also means you might not understand the people locally who cannot be so detached,

 however this thread is not about fickleness with the owners per se,  it is more about fickleness of the fans and the way we treat managers, which changed for ever after Roy Hodgson went,  he took part of our reputation for fairness and supporting the manager with him!
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline Not A Scouser

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #18 on: June 2, 2012, 11:24:32 pm »
Loved Rafa, still do.  Terrified of Hodgson, still am.  Loved the idea of Kenny but thought his methods would probably be too old-fashioned, still do.  Impressed by the vision of Rodgers and how Swansea played.  Really excited for the upcoming season.  Worried about his overall record as a manager (very short, mixed, and at far, far smaller clubs.)  I will still be nervous for a few years until the project is really getting somewhere (youth conveyor belt, a good percentage of good signings that fit the FSG plan).

This isn't to say, "I was right" because these are just opinions.  I think it is OK to have opinions and not everyone switches them at the drop of a hat or clings to them whatever the evidence.

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #19 on: June 2, 2012, 11:34:17 pm »
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Offline Vulmea

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #20 on: June 2, 2012, 11:37:47 pm »
None taken; like I said I'm pretty far removed from the football culture of Liverpool right now.

But sadly, in this day and age, don't we have to become a brand in order to keep up with our fans' high expectations?  The less money we make on kit sales, TV rights, and sponsorships, the less we have to spend on new players and stadium upgrades which the fans have been demanding.

Hicks and Gillet fucked us over, no question, but it's unfair to assume that all non-local owners are as selfish, short sighted, and evil.

I do get that football fans are fickle, but I suppose being half a world away and viewing from the outside makes it easier to distinguish the emotionally driven reactions from the valid concerns.

emotionally driven reactions aren't valid? Since when? Emotion is what football is all about otherwise whats the point?

Liverpool football club exists to be a source of pride for the city and its supporters. Thats the bottom line not what is written in the accounts ledger.

in this day and age? maybe in this day and age its even more important not to chase the yankee $ and stand by what you believe in.

the money is a necessary evil to make us competitive - but being competitive is the goal not making money - if we become the Liverpool Reds - the quick football franchise from Merseysideshire then there's no point

Football, or at least the game I was brought up to love is about community, its about everybody being involved - thats what support is about - it never was about being a spectator or a consumer - its not a middle class entertainment - its about being part of your club - that bond is being shredded in the corporate race for money - its being shredded by fans saying well from over here I can view things dispassionately - if you are viewing them dispassionately the maybe you are missing the whole point?
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #21 on: June 2, 2012, 11:40:19 pm »
Lots of valid points in the OP. I don't like the way we've made the change from Kenny to Rodgers. And when I have said it, I've always had difficulties to make up my mind. Have we had a plan or haven't we? We can justify decisions, but...

If we go back to Hodgson, that was a very bad move. All the way through. I thought it was wrong, it was ugly and it didn't make sense. That was a pr stunt. And I ended up in this weird state where I wanted the club to succeed, but I wanted us to get back on track and put another man in charge. Familiar feeling from GH's last days.

Kenny, I always said he's too important to be manager. Thought it was wrong to hire him, but was pleased when it worked. It's true we had a bad season. To finish 8th after that investment, his position was always going to be questioned. Wasn't necessary to replace him, but now we did. We threw him out and we should have valued him, treasured his presence and made sure he'd stay for another decade. So the decision to change managers may be justified, but we made a bad call for the club.

My problem is not with each individual decision. My concern is with the big picture and I have an impression we want to look clever. We want to look like we have a plan and we say things that later don't make sense. And we are making things very difficult for ourselves. We talk "stability and long term" and we switch very quickly. The effect is we make a series of poor decisions and it's costing us lots of money. So basically we are creating our own downfall. I sense 1984 and the Emperor's new clothes.

Rodgers is just the next step in this. We are ambitious. Talk about top four being the minimum target, even downplay the domestic cups. So it's hardball. Sack the legend. Move forward. Surely, you can see this is the right call? And then we go out and hire a manager who is unproven. We get the same thing again. We hand freedom to him, which is good, but there's nothing new with the structure. Basically the same structure FSG didn't want when they came in and hired Comolli. Mixed messages again, if you put them next to each other. Maybe they've changed, maybe they've realised they made a mistake and corrected it? Maybe. Same thing though. We need to believe there is a plan, we need to see greatness in Rodgers that isn't quite there yet. (And here I'd be critisized for not believing in Rodgers, so I need to fall in line, but it's not him. He's not the problem. It's something else.)

I need to say this specifically - Rodgers isn't part of this. He's a new voice and hopefully he can be the difference. But there we go again. If he isn't, he'll be easy to sacrifise.

To me it's like we KNOW we don't make the best calls. We avoid making the right ones. For personal reasons, for pr reasons, for money, for whatever. And it's been going on for a while. And it needs to stop. Or we won't get back on track.

My hope now is that Rodgers will perform. That he will earn the respect he needs, and needs to earn, in order to get us back on track. But I still think we have some other work to do. Our real problem isn't the manager.

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Offline OrangeMochaFraps

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #22 on: June 2, 2012, 11:43:18 pm »
it means you can be detached but it also means you might not understand the people locally who cannot be so detached,

 however this thread is not about fickleness with the owners per se,  it is more about fickleness of the fans and the way we treat managers, which changed for ever after Roy Hodgson went,  he took part of our reputation for fairness and supporting the manager with him!

Fair points - sorry I got off topic.  Just something that's been bothering me for a while.

Offline Vulmea

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #23 on: June 2, 2012, 11:53:02 pm »
My hope now is that Rodgers will perform. That he will earn the respect he needs, and needs to earn, in order to get us back on track. But I still think we have some other work to do. Our real problem isn't the manager.

But FSG are not equipped to make the best decisions - they can have a theoretical structure but have no practical experience of how to make it work. What validity would following their own uninformed view have? There is no guarantee anything they devise or are recommended will transfer to LFC.

How do they gain the know how they need?

If its true they have spoken to a number of leading candidates and they all said the same thing i.e sole control then where does that leave them? And to an extent I share the sentiment - we do need a single unifying vision - if initially that comes from Rodgers and not some DoF I can live with that - the important thing is how you practically make it work - the technical board idea - seems feasible.
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Offline steveee

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #24 on: June 2, 2012, 11:59:47 pm »
I actually think we are lucky to have the owners we got now.   Some will not see that for awhile though and I can understand that because of what happened with the last owners.  Facts are FSG are nothing even remotely close to the cowboys.  The only thing they have in common is they are American.   There will be some out there that will be skeptical of FSG until they bring a title back to Anfield....  something we haven't done in 20 years but even then when they do bring a title back to Anfield there will still be very few that are skeptical of them... mark my words.  They will bring a title back and wont stop until they do.   I'm pleased for the most part in the owners decisions.   I'm glad they are not letting supporters make all decisions for the club as well..

« Last Edit: June 3, 2012, 12:02:34 am by steveee »

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #25 on: June 3, 2012, 12:01:20 am »
I'm just going to enjoy the football for a while - its been years now with out serious off field / emotional stuff  -  the new man looks like he knows what hes doing, let him get on with it and have a kick about

That's what I'm determined to do. Clean slate and all that. Whether I can or not remains to be seen. I'm sick of the in-fighting and politics both at the club and on here. Hopefully we can move on under Brendan and get some semblance of a 'normal' club back, it's been 5 years now.

Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #26 on: June 3, 2012, 12:05:48 am »
c*nts like Collins still having a field day over us....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2153790/Kevin-Pietersen-hard-like-Patrick-Collins.html

The DM is a right wing anti-immigration/bigoted paper. Should be ignored at all opportunities. Have enough quarrels with my finance pointing that one out, her mother is an avid reader and takes what they say for granted *sigh*

The media will pick on easy targets and we unfortunately are still one at this time. We are still squabbling as a fan base and just starting to solidify again behind Brendan.

Kenny's sacking hurt us as he is a legend but we have a new manager now and our support is key.

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #27 on: June 3, 2012, 12:12:06 am »
But FSG are not equipped to make the best decisions - they can have a theoretical structure but have no practical experience of how to make it work. What validity would following their own uninformed view have? There is no guarantee anything they devise or are recommended will transfer to LFC.

How do they gain the know how they need?

If its true they have spoken to a number of leading candidates and they all said the same thing i.e sole control then where does that leave them? And to an extent I share the sentiment - we do need a single unifying vision - if initially that comes from Rodgers and not some DoF I can live with that - the important thing is how you practically make it work - the technical board idea - seems feasible.

It's not the technical board. I just think we take one step forward and one step back. You see it with our much talked about structure.

We had a structure. Then FSG came in and it was Comolli. Now it's no longer Comolli, it's pretty much the same idea everyone else has. But we need to call it new and we need to make it shine. But it's still the structure everyone else has.

Essentially, we have blamed Kenny and Comolli, but we have also changed the structure. Meaning nothing was really the way we wanted.

We make all the decisions, but where's the stability? And it could so easily have been there. When we sacked Hodgson, we could have made a team of Kenny and Comolli. New manager brought in. Now? Just keep Comolli and/or Kenny. Hire some extra staff around them. There's our new team. Instead we rip it all up and go for something new. Which is old. And we let Rodgers tell us how he likes it. But I doubt we gave that chance to Kenny and Comolli.

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #28 on: June 3, 2012, 12:14:25 am »
c*nts like Collins still having a field day over us....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2153790/Kevin-Pietersen-hard-like-Patrick-Collins.html

Collins is a c*nt and I've said on here many times that certain sections of the press should be banned from Anfield but to be fair there's not much wrong with what he's said there, apart from the 'offensive image' remark.

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #29 on: June 3, 2012, 12:18:15 am »
I'm not having that Roy Hodgson was ever.. ever a good managerial appointment for LFC. He was a yes man. A man to appease the knobheads and a man to appease the media and a man to shut up the 'owners are robbing bastards' crowd.

He never 'got' the club because he never tried. He wasn't brought in for any football reasons and it was so, so, so obvious from the off that not only did he have no 'chance' at the club, but he didn't want one. From his first laughably abysmal press conferences to the last, the man is a joke.

He's a great manager for sides that have no ambition other to hang on like Fulham, West Brom and England. But for a 'big club' he's hopeless. It was absolutely no surprise that he failed. It was even less of a surprise that he failed so badly.

I'm fed up of the "Oh. Poor little Roy. No one gave him a chance" stuff people are coming out with. If he'd even slightly deserved 'a chance' then he would have been given one. When he was saying that LFC would be lucky not to get relegated. When he said a victory against Everton would have been utopia. When he said "These people aren't helping" about the fans. When he said so, so, so much shit. It was obviously he was taking the piss. He's not as thick as pigshite. He was having a laugh from the start.

Good riddance. It wouldn't have been the "Liverpool Way" to back him because that way was alien to him from start to finish.
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Offline Bangin Them In

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #30 on: June 3, 2012, 12:20:45 am »
The DM is a right wing anti-immigration/bigoted paper. Should be ignored at all opportunities. Have enough quarrels with my finance pointing that one out, her mother is an avid reader and takes what they say for granted *sigh*

The media will pick on easy targets and we unfortunately are still one at this time. We are still squabbling as a fan base and just starting to solidify again behind Brendan.

Kenny's sacking hurt us as he is a legend but we have a new manager now and our support is key.

Your Finance ?

Double entendre at it's finest, bravo sir  8)
A win for the Liverpool country

Offline Vulmea

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #31 on: June 3, 2012, 12:36:02 am »
It's not the technical board. I just think we take one step forward and one step back. You see it with our much talked about structure.

We had a structure. Then FSG came in and it was Comolli. Now it's no longer Comolli, it's pretty much the same idea everyone else has. But we need to call it new and we need to make it shine. But it's still the structure everyone else has.

Essentially, we have blamed Kenny and Comolli, but we have also changed the structure. Meaning nothing was really the way we wanted.

We make all the decisions, but where's the stability? And it could so easily have been there. When we sacked Hodgson, we could have made a team of Kenny and Comolli. New manager brought in. Now? Just keep Comolli and/or Kenny. Hire some extra staff around them. There's our new team. Instead we rip it all up and go for something new. Which is old. And we let Rodgers tell us how he likes it. But I doubt we gave that chance to Kenny and Comolli.

again though they can have a theoretical structure but the individuals have to buy into it  - I certainly aint defending their Kenny decision but its not simply their decision to reshuffle people those people have to see themselves in those new positions

I think the Board will be different - there will be a head of recruitment (head scout) which could have been Comolli but maybe he didn't fancy it, a technical director hopefully Segura which will be a step up from his current reserves and academy (could have been Kenny but is it his forte?), a sporting director (contracts, FA, admin horrible feeling this could be Ayre because I can't see how he is suited)  and Rodgers - their proposed structure would have had a DoF but I dont really see where that role fits or what it does.
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Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #32 on: June 3, 2012, 12:42:48 am »
Your Finance ?

Double entendre at it's finest, bravo sir  8)

Heh heh, nice catch. I blame the iPad which has the tendency to autocorrect to an amazing degree. It changed this last sentence to "I became the iPad" as well until I caught it. Egotistical machine!

Not a Freudian slip on my behalf at all! No siree! Love my fiancé. Money she spends isn't a problem ;)

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #33 on: June 3, 2012, 12:47:54 am »
That's what I'm determined to do. Clean slate and all that. Whether I can or not remains to be seen. I'm sick of the in-fighting and politics both at the club and on here. Hopefully we can move on under Brendan and get some semblance of a 'normal' club back, it's been 5 years now.
I'm afraid as long as Ayre is at the club, some of us will have a constant nagging doubt that the structure isn't snake-free

Offline Les Willis

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #34 on: June 3, 2012, 12:51:53 am »
c*nts like Collins still having a field day over us....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2153790/Kevin-Pietersen-hard-like-Patrick-Collins.html
I'm a bit confused as to how KP's one day retirement relates to us?   :P


As for the original post, I was probably one of the Rafa detractors later on. I was saying at the time that he deserved one more season though. Then he was gone and Roy was here and I thought that was an ok appointment. Steady the ship etc. But I learned during that period that you can't just be any old bloke to manage this club. As a fan, I learnt a lot as to how out of touch I was with our fanbase.

Roy didn't do attacking football. Roy said the wrong things. To be fair to Roy, all he does is speak honestly (if slightly deprecatingly), but that doesn't wash with our fan base. He also didn't say the right things about the Club's history and gave too much credit to Fergie...

Brendan has already done tons to assuage Liverpool fans in his first press conference. He talks the right brand of football and hasn't once talked up Sir Alex...

Offline koptician

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #35 on: June 3, 2012, 12:52:14 am »
I'm not having that Roy Hodgson was ever.. ever a good managerial appointment for LFC. He was a yes man. A man to appease the knobheads and a man to appease the media and a man to shut up the 'owners are robbing bastards' crowd.

He never 'got' the club because he never tried. He wasn't brought in for any football reasons and it was so, so, so obvious from the off that not only did he have no 'chance' at the club, but he didn't want one. From his first laughably abysmal press conferences to the last, the man is a joke.

He's a great manager for sides that have no ambition other to hang on like Fulham, West Brom and England. But for a 'big club' he's hopeless. It was absolutely no surprise that he failed. It was even less of a surprise that he failed so badly.

I'm fed up of the "Oh. Poor little Roy. No one gave him a chance" stuff people are coming out with. If he'd even slightly deserved 'a chance' then he would have been given one. When he was saying that LFC would be lucky not to get relegated. When he said a victory against Everton would have been utopia. When he said "These people aren't helping" about the fans. When he said so, so, so much shit. It was obviously he was taking the piss. He's not as thick as pigshite. He was having a laugh from the start.

Good riddance. It wouldn't have been the "Liverpool Way" to back him because that way was alien to him from start to finish.

100% with you on this one Andy. That man was a disgrace to the club...only under the cancers would such an appointment been possible. His appointment was just another symptom of the malaise that had taken over the club

Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #36 on: June 3, 2012, 01:05:50 am »
100% with you on this one Andy. That man was a disgrace to the club...only under the cancers would such an appointment been possible. His appointment was just another symptom of the malaise that had taken over the club

Sadly he's doing to England what he did to us. Hope for a goal and then defend it, giving away possession of the ball and defending deep for XX minutes. Attack neglected. Sadly the media falls for the defensive angle enough that he's even credited for the two 1-0 results rather than justifiable concern raised for the possession granted to the opposition and chances from them. A better side will take said chances and rout England.

Offline koptician

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #37 on: June 3, 2012, 01:10:02 am »
Sadly he's doing to England what he did to us. Hope for a goal and then defend it, giving away possession of the ball and defending deep for XX minutes. Attack neglected. Sadly the media falls for the defensive angle enough that he's even credited for the two 1-0 results rather than justifiable concern raised for the possession granted to the opposition and chances from them. A better side will take said chances and rout England.

Well, at least some are noticing the alarm bells
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18308992

Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #38 on: June 3, 2012, 01:15:52 am »
Well, at least some are noticing the alarm bells
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18308992

Good to see. I'd love him to prove me wrong but he manages everyone the same. Improves low end teams. Stifles better teams. All end up middle ground.

If the defence crumbles under France's attack, the rest are too defensive to react to then up their game. We made chances but so far it doesn't seem coordinated and determined. Very very bitty is the only way to describe it.

Roy, please please prove me wrong!

Offline mercury

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Re: From Roy to Rodgers: Pulling the Trigger
« Reply #39 on: June 3, 2012, 04:20:56 am »
it means you can be detached but it also means you might not understand the people locally who cannot be so detached,

 however this thread is not about fickleness with the owners per se,  it is more about fickleness of the fans and the way we treat managers, which changed for ever after Roy Hodgson went,  he took part of our reputation for fairness and supporting the manager with him!

Completely disagreed with this.

Hodgson was never the right appointment but most fans were fair enough to give him a chance. It's really the lack of hope of the performance  on the pitch  (for me the more important criteria) and off it that did it.  The football was appalling and we're gonna for a relegation fight, that I had no doubt. It's just an unfortunate episode in his career in which he also showed his worst side.  It's an episode best for both him and we to forget.

Lots of valid points in the OP. I don't like the way we've made the change from Kenny to Rodgers. And when I have said it, I've always had difficulties to make up my mind. Have we had a plan or haven't we? We can justify decisions, but...

If we go back to Hodgson, that was a very bad move. All the way through. I thought it was wrong, it was ugly and it didn't make sense. That was a pr stunt. And I ended up in this weird state where I wanted the club to succeed, but I wanted us to get back on track and put another man in charge. Familiar feeling from GH's last days.

Kenny, I always said he's too important to be manager. Thought it was wrong to hire him, but was pleased when it worked. It's true we had a bad season. To finish 8th after that investment, his position was always going to be questioned. Wasn't necessary to replace him, but now we did. We threw him out and we should have valued him, treasured his presence and made sure he'd stay for another decade. So the decision to change managers may be justified, but we made a bad call for the club.

My problem is not with each individual decision. My concern is with the big picture and I have an impression we want to look clever. We want to look like we have a plan and we say things that later don't make sense. And we are making things very difficult for ourselves. We talk "stability and long term" and we switch very quickly. The effect is we make a series of poor decisions and it's costing us lots of money. So basically we are creating our own downfall. I sense 1984 and the Emperor's new clothes.

Rodgers is just the next step in this. We are ambitious. Talk about top four being the minimum target, even downplay the domestic cups. So it's hardball. Sack the legend. Move forward. Surely, you can see this is the right call? And then we go out and hire a manager who is unproven. We get the same thing again. We hand freedom to him, which is good, but there's nothing new with the structure. Basically the same structure FSG didn't want when they came in and hired Comolli. Mixed messages again, if you put them next to each other. Maybe they've changed, maybe they've realised they made a mistake and corrected it? Maybe. Same thing though. We need to believe there is a plan, we need to see greatness in Rodgers that isn't quite there yet. (And here I'd be critisized for not believing in Rodgers, so I need to fall in line, but it's not him. He's not the problem. It's something else.)

I need to say this specifically - Rodgers isn't part of this. He's a new voice and hopefully he can be the difference. But there we go again. If he isn't, he'll be easy to sacrifise.

To me it's like we KNOW we don't make the best calls. We avoid making the right ones. For personal reasons, for pr reasons, for money, for whatever. And it's been going on for a while. And it needs to stop. Or we won't get back on track.

My hope now is that Rodgers will perform. That he will earn the respect he needs, and needs to earn, in order to get us back on track. But I still think we have some other work to do. Our real problem isn't the manager.


This absolutely resonates with me.   

What we have seen are a lot of snappiness and expediency in the decision making.  Take advantage (really???) of circumstances instead of creating circumstances inside the Club ourselves.  It's nothing about the scars from G&H.  It's all about the quality of management and, more importantly, leadership shown thus far.

I am however glad with Rodgers, not only obviously this man has some quality and character albeit quite a risk, but at least there's some thought process in how the football side of the Club especially philosophy and style of play should align with this appointment.  There are still a lot of questions though:  are we really going for a "structure" and who are gonna to oversee that structure, most importantly the relationships inside this structure.  For me owners some 1,000 miles away on a part time basis ain't gonna get it done.  Please don't tell me it gonna be Ayre....