Topic: Daniel Sturridge

[amirani]

We won CL with fricking Baros upfront.

Was referring to the league. We finished 5th in the league that season.

[JackWard33]

We won CL with fricking Baros upfront.

Haha that is a discussion ender

[PeterTheRed ...]

2010-11 Bundesliga - Barrios scored 21 goals.
2011-12 Bundesliga - Lewandowski scored 22 goals.

They both were essential to the title winning campaigns and Klopp started both strikers as a first team preference. Do not tell me that he won his titles without 20 goal a season strikers. Yes, they had other attackers contributing as well but it wasn't like it is a Liverpool. Our highest goalscorer played as a CM for the last 2 games.

There is a reason why consistent goalscorers are so hard to come by. They are absolute neccessity for any team who wants to compete at the top of the league. We may win Cups while 'sharing the goals', but for the league campaigns, we need someone who is instinctive about scoring goals. To quote a cliche, it should be in his blood. We thought we had that with Sturridge, but its never going to work. We need better.

You seem to have missed my point completely. Barrios and Lewandowski were not 20+ goals per season strikers at Bundesliga level when Klopp signed them. Neither was Aubameyang.

[amirani]

You seem to have missed my point completely. Barrios and Lewandowski were not 20+ goals per season strikers at Bundesliga level when Klopp signed them. Neither was Aubameyang.

The point is the importance of having that kind of a prolific forward for challenging for the title. Some here are downplaying that importance.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

yeah i think '20+ goal striker' is just a catchphrase from the 90's now with no real relevance in the current football paradigm

Funny, that. There I was thinking the six sides around us all had one...

How much was firmino injured this year? He's a very fit player who klopp picks at the 9 even when he's half fit.

He plays him when he's half fit; he doesn't always play him as the nine. If he was as wedded to playing him centrally as the likes of yourself claim, Klopp wouldn't have moved him wide almost every single time one of Mané or Coutinho was missing.

And before you say "he had no choice," he did. He could have signed a winger in the summer or in January to ensure that he did not have to move Firmino from that central position. Or he could have played Lallana, Wijnaldum, Milner, Sturridge or Origi in a wide attacking position instead.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

You seem to have missed my point completely. Barrios and Lewandowski were not 20+ goals per season strikers at Bundesliga level when Klopp signed them. Neither was Aubameyang.

Klopp didn't sign Firmino.

[NaivetyinBlack]

You seem to have missed my point completely. Barrios and Lewandowski were not 20+ goals per season strikers at Bundesliga level when Klopp signed them. Neither was Aubameyang.

And you seem to have missed my point. It doesn't matter what 'level' they were. A frontman who scored 20+ goals was the top scorer for both seasons in the league. And there ends the fucking debate about Klopp not prefering a consistent goalscorer but a 'even distribution of goals'.

Someone made a point of having Baros when we won the CL. Great one. Do you guys even read the posts while typing counter-arguments ? A league has not and previous history says, cannot be won without a 20+ goalscorer in the team. Cups can. If we want to be serious about winning the league, either of the following must happen.

1) Firmino (who is our prefered striker last season) turns into a goal machine.

2) We buy a goal machine.

Its as simple as that. We will not have a season where 3 of our players contribute with 15 goals in the league. Its impossible and frankly, unfair to put that much pressure on attackers who will have to create goals, retain possession, press and somehow be stellar in goalscoring form. You guys are expecting perfection. Won't happen.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

We will not have a season where 3 of our players contribute with 15 goals in the league. Its impossible and frankly, unfair to put that much pressure on attackers who will have to create goals, retain possession, press and somehow be stellar in goalscoring form. You guys are expecting perfection. Won't happen.

Do you mean our current players, or our players plus ones we could sign? If the latter then I don't think that's impossible at all; in fact I think that should be the benchmark for a successful season. I think Spurs pretty much had it with Kane, Alli and Son and the latter doesn't start every week. City had it with Toure, Aguero and Dzeko in 13/14. Had Sterling played the full season we'd likely have had it with, Suarez and Sturridge in the same season.

If the former, then I agree that expecting it of Mane, Firmino and Coutinho is moderately unrealistic. Firmino's just played as full of a league campaign as he probably ever will and scored 11 goals. We know from watching him that his finishing is a weak point of his. What we also know is that Coutinho is likely to drop deeper next season and, while so far he seems to have maintained his goalscoring levels playing from that position, expecting that across a larger sample of games is, again, moderately unrealistic.

Mané should cake walk 15 league goals if he can stay fit for the full campaign but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind we need one, if not two, reliable goalscorers added to that attack and without it we won't win the league.

[McrRed]

And you seem to have missed my point. It doesn't matter what 'level' they were. A frontman who scored 20+ goals was the top scorer for both seasons in the league. And there ends the fucking debate about Klopp not prefering a consistent goalscorer but a 'even distribution of goals'.

Someone made a point of having Baros when we won the CL. Great one. Do you guys even read the posts while typing counter-arguments ? A league has not and previous history says, cannot be won without a 20+ goalscorer in the team. Cups can. If we want to be serious about winning the league, either of the following must happen.

1) Firmino (who is our prefered striker last season) turns into a goal machine.

2) We buy a goal machine.

Its as simple as that. We will not have a season where 3 of our players contribute with 15 goals in the league. Its impossible and frankly, unfair to put that much pressure on attackers who will have to create goals, retain possession, press and somehow be stellar in goalscoring form. You guys are expecting perfection. Won't happen.

Completely disagree.

That's what Klopp is building. It's something special and that's why the guy is a wolf and not a sheep.
Sustain the scoring. Shore up the defense.

Coming up that hill boys.

[amirani]

To be honest, I am no longer worried about this "main goalscorer" thing. Klopp has created a system where the goals are coming from many players. If you look at our goalscoring stats from this season, we have goals coming from all over the place:

Philippe Coutinho – 14
Sadio Mane – 13
Roberto Firmino – 12
Divock Origi – 11
Adam Lallana – 8
James Milner – 7
Daniel Sturridge – 7
Georginio Wijnaldum – 6
Emre Can – 5
Dejan Lovren – 2
Jordan Henderson – 1
Ragnar Klavan – 1
Lucas Leiva – 1
Joel Matip – 1
Ben Woodburn – 1

Total - 90

If Sturridge can improve his fitness and his goalscoring contribution next season, if Ings comes back and adds his part, and if we add another attacker capable of scoring at least 10+ goals for us next season (it seems that Salah is the target), we will be just fine.

Title winning/challenging teams have goals from everywhere plus a main goalscorer with tons of goals.

Just a look at the front 4 players.

Chelsea: Costa(20), Hazard(16), Pedro(9), Fabregas(5) = 50 goals
Spurs: Kane(29), Dele Alli(18), Son(14), Eriksen (8 ) = 69 goals

Compare that to our front 4
Firmino (11), Coutinho/Mane(13), Lallana(8 )= 45 goals.

Take out the number 9 player our wide forwards and Attacking Mid did better than Chelsea but not as good as Spurs. So it's just that one player making a big difference.

[PeterTheRed ...]

And you seem to have missed my point. It doesn't matter what 'level' they were. A frontman who scored 20+ goals was the top scorer for both seasons in the league. And there ends the fucking debate about Klopp not prefering a consistent goalscorer but a 'even distribution of goals'.

OK, I understand that you want an expensive 20+ goals per season striker. You are free to moan about it until September 1st.

[NaivetyinBlack]

OK, I understand that you want an expensive 20+ goals per season striker. You are free to moan about it until September 1st.

Profound 

Like I said, we're not going to have a season where all of our front 3 score 15+ league goals. So yes, if you are right and we don't sign a goalscorer (who said expensive ?) who can contribute with just goals, we are not winning the league in near future.

[JackWard33]

Profound 

Like I said, we're not going to have a season where all of our front 3 score 15+ league goals. So yes, if you are right and we don't sign a goalscorer (who said expensive ?) who can contribute with just goals, we are not winning the league in near future.

This is a nonsense.
It's a completely non-provable or disprovable statement you're writing as fact.

Oh... and I have no clue what it has to do with Sturridge?

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Oh... and I have no clue what it has to do with Sturridge?

Again, the likes of yourself seem to be happy to go into next season with Firmino, Sturridge, Origi and Ings as our strikers for another campaign.

What has been proven in my mind, is that bunch isn't up to scratch for a multitude of reasons.

Without getting Sturridge's wages off the books it's going to be very difficult to bring in the winger we desperately need and the striker we also could do with.

[JackWard33]

Again, the likes of yourself seem to be happy to go into next season with Firmino, Sturridge, Origi and Ings as our strikers for another campaign.

What has been proven in my mind, is that bunch isn't up to scratch for a multitude of reasons.

Without getting Sturridge's wages off the books it's going to be very difficult to bring in the winger we desperately need and the striker we also could do with.

This is total supposition - you have any evidence that Sturridges wages are preventing us bringing in other players?

(oh and if you can point me to the post where I said I don't want to bring in anymore forward players I'd be grateful) 

[PeterTheRed ...]

Again, the likes of yourself seem to be happy to go into next season with Firmino, Sturridge, Origi and Ings as our strikers for another campaign.

Yes, I will be happy with Mane, Firmino, Salah, Sturridge, Origi and Ings as our attacking options next season.

With Coutinho and Lallana as our No.10 options.

[NaivetyinBlack]

This is a nonsense.
It's a completely non-provable or disprovable statement you're writing as fact.

Oh... and I have no clue what it has to do with Sturridge?

1) Its not nonsense. Since you love statistics so much, show me a recent PL league winning team where 3 players have scored 15+ league goals, without a genuine goalscorer. Go on.

2) It has everything to do with Sturridge as you and a lot of people here want him to stay as a part of our attacking unit as a goalscorer, except, without a season long consistency in numbers.

[Chief Brody]

It's really the laziest comment on this board. Last 52 PL games Sturridge wasn't in the squad only 13 times.

Klopp simply preferred Firmino and that's it. With hindsight he may or may not have been wrong on that one.

Sensational. People are actually kidding themselves this guy hasn't got a chronic injury record now.
Its a running joke. Bury your head in the sand all you want.


16/17   Hip injury   Apr 22, 2017   
16/17   Hip problems Mar 2, 2017   
16/17   Ill Feb 17, 2017   
16/17   Calf Injury    Nov 23, 2016   
16/17   Hip injury   Aug 5, 2016   
15/16   Hamstring Injury Dec 7, 2015   
15/16   Edema in the knee Oct 16, 2015   
14/15   Hip injury   Apr 8, 2015   
14/15   Hamstring Injury Nov 18, 2014   
14/15   Thigh Muscle Strain Sep 5, 2014   

Thats just the last 3 years.

If he stays I'll remind you of this when he's next injured because it won't be long.

Death, taxes, Sturridge injuries.

[JackWard33]

1) Its not nonsense. Since you love statistics so much, show me a recent PL league winning team where 3 players have scored 15+ league goals, without a genuine goalscorer. Go on.

2) It has everything to do with Sturridge as you and a lot of people here want him to stay as a part of our attacking unit as a goalscorer, except, without a season long consistency in numbers.

Haha first of all "you love statistics so much"... .are you 11?

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to prove with your posts... genuinely. I have no clue what our players will score next season. Firmino and Mane are both capable of scoring 20 in a season but who the fuck knows how many games they'll play, what shape we'll play and what other players we'll bring in.
It's not fucking axiomatic that you get a 20+ goal scorer and win the league is it? (or did I miss Everton's open top bus tour)

No one that wants Sturridge to stay is expecting him to be first choice ahead of Firmino when we're only playing one striker are they?

 

[SerbianScouser]

His much bigger problem was that for some reason Klopp didn't want to use him which is why he spent a lot of time on the bench - fit.

If Klopp did use him more in those games then now we wouldn't be talking about his injuries.

[Byrneand]

OK. Take a step back without focusing on specifics.

Do you think the team would be better with Aguero, Kane, Lacazette, Sanchez or Suarez leading the line?
Would having them in the team create more space for Courtinho, Mane, Lallana or Firminio?
Do you think Ings, Origi, Sturridge or Firminio cause as much trouble for defenders?
With the exception of Firminio can these be relied upon to week-in, week-out change the game?

After thinking these through.... do you think the team would possibly get better results with a top quality front man for the ~60 games we'll play next year?

Ergo, if selling Sturridge allowed you to get Top No 9 (enter in any of list of targets) would you make the swap?

My opinion, and that's all it is, would be I would make that trade. If the option is to swap Sturridge for Troy Deeney then I'd be less inclined.

Klopp gets blasted for not having a Plan B. A proper high goal scoring striker gives him that Plan B. Again just my opinion

[NaivetyinBlack]

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to prove with your posts... genuinely.

That we do not have a league winning formula, based on recent league winners. In all top leagues. Its why we need to replace and improve from Sturridge.

Firmino and Mane are both capable of scoring 20 in a season but who the fuck knows how many games they'll play, what shape we'll play and what other players we'll bring in.

They both are ? I find that hard to believe. Maybe I will when I see it. Until then, I would be reassured if we had someone who has actually done it once or twice.

No one that wants Sturridge to stay is expecting him to be first choice ahead of Firmino when we're only playing one striker are they?

Actually, I do. I want the striker we play to score goals, which Sturridge can. And herein lies the problem and the reason this thread is 60 pages long. Sturridge's presence in the squad has become a luxury. He's redundant because Firmino, a player who Klopp clearly prefers scored only 11 goals in the league. A return which resembles that of an AM or a wide player is enough to keep him out. And there is absolutely no way around that.

[Blinis]

Sturridge has played on average between 17 and 18 PL games during his LFC career. Klopp knows that, we all know that. If you expect Sturridge to play 38 PL games next season, you are fooling yourself. The question is whether there is a better outside option. If you come with criticism, come with a better outside option

[Byrneand]

If the option is to swap Sturridge for Troy Deeney then I'd be less inclined.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4541986/Watford-demand-35million-Troy-Deeney.html

I honestly didn't even know he was for sale. This is a joke!

[theredyank]

I think he's really unfortunate with the injuries, and I think he knows the score at this point. A bit-part role is the best thing for both parties. He's ideal as a 2nd-3rd choice striker. Can't start many games, but he changes things off the bench. Such a natural goal scorer. We don't have many players that do that.

[God's Left Peg]

That we do not have a league winning formula, based on recent league winners. In all top leagues. Its why we need to replace and improve from Sturridge.

They both are ? I find that hard to believe. Maybe I will when I see it. Until then, I would be reassured if we had someone who has actually done it once or twice.

Actually, I do. I want the striker we play to score goals, which Sturridge can. And herein lies the problem and the reason this thread is 60 pages long. Sturridge's presence in the squad has become a luxury. He's redundant because Firmino, a player who Klopp clearly prefers scored only 11 goals in the league. A return which resembles that of an AM or a wide player is enough to keep him out. And there is absolutely no way around that.

In a nutshell.

Daniel Sturridge may indeed be a Rolls Royce of a player, but he is a Rolls Royce who 9 times out of 10 doesn't pass his MOT or, when taken out for a spin on a nice sunny day, overheats and ends up being towed back by the AA (ok its not a good analogy but you get my drift).

It is as plain as the hole in my arse that he is not able to maintain the necessary levels of fitness to be a Klopp striker.

[paulrazor]

Daniel Sturridge may indeed be a Rolls Royce of a player, but he is a Rolls Royce who 9 times out of 10 doesn't pass his MOT or, when taken out for a spin on a nice sunny day, overheats and ends up being towed back by the AA (ok its not a good analogy but you get my drift).

its an analogy i used myself to describe him. recently got rid of a vw passat estate. loads of space in it, loads of room, comfortable, brilliant to drive. however reliability wise the last few months i had it it was a disaster, so it had to go.

sturridge reminds me of it. brilliant in so many ways. just not reliable

Sensational. People are actually kidding themselves this guy hasn't got a chronic injury record now.
Its a running joke. Bury your head in the sand all you want.


16/17   Hip injury   Apr 22, 2017   
16/17   Hip problems Mar 2, 2017   
16/17   Ill Feb 17, 2017   
16/17   Calf Injury    Nov 23, 2016   
16/17   Hip injury   Aug 5, 2016   
15/16   Hamstring Injury Dec 7, 2015   
15/16   Edema in the knee Oct 16, 2015   
14/15   Hip injury   Apr 8, 2015   
14/15   Hamstring Injury Nov 18, 2014   
14/15   Thigh Muscle Strain Sep 5, 2014   

Thats just the last 3 years.

If he stays I'll remind you of this when he's next injured because it won't be long.

Death, taxes, Sturridge injuries.

this


a lot of those injuries came together with no games played in between. the bottom two injuries for instance. he was due back in october, then it was november then he didnt play until january. The October/December 2015 injuries, in between he only played about twice.

this season was about the last chance in many fans eyes. as you can see the end of the 2015-6 season things are beginning to improve and then he had a series of absences.

people say there was games he was available for and wasnt picked, maybe it was because klopp didnt trust him to start because he was an injury waiting to happen

[LallanaInPyjamas]

This is total supposition - you have any evidence that Sturridges wages are preventing us bringing in other players?

(oh and if you can point me to the post where I said I don't want to bring in anymore forward players I'd be grateful)

Of course it's supposition, this is a football forum, did I miss the part where we're only dealing in facts and inside knowledge? Amazing how when it's an opinion which doesn't match yours you throw words like that around. And yet you ask someone if they're 11... yawn

Anyway I didn't use the word 'stopping'; I said it would be difficult. If we are looking to sign a top striker as some sources have suggested, and in my opinion we 100% should be, then one of Origi, Ings or Sturridge needs to go. We're unlikely to go into a season with five strikers for one or occasionally two positions. We have 25 spots available - maybe less if we have home grown quotas to fill, I'm sure Rickardinho can fill us in there - and it would be curious to use 20% of that on strikers. Throw in the three goalkeepers and that's only 17 spots left for an entire defence, midfield and attacking midfield...

Given Sturridge has by far the highest wages and possibly the highest re-sale value, then it's surely most likely that if we sign a striker Klopp prefers, he's top of the disposable list to balance the books and squad.

If this was a discussion about Lucas and our midfield I'm sure you'd have absolutely no qualms so I'm wasting my time anyway

[Gnurglan]

Even taking our existing players and not considering new ones........

Would you expect improvement?  Hopefully yes although I appreciate thats never guaranteed.

Coutinho scored 13 league goals in 31 appearances.  Could we realistically expect him to hit 15 next year?
Mane scored 13 league goals in only 27 appearances.  Based on that we should expect him to score at least 15 if not more
Firmino scored 11 league goals in 35.  Could he hit 15 given the amount of chances he gets?

I'd say it would be very very healthy to have 3 players hitting 15+ goals in a season, which is very realistic based on the above.

We've also got other players closing on the 10 goals a season from midfield.

Never minding hopefully keeping Sturridge and whatever he bags would be a bonus.

Thats not even adding new players which we will inevitably sign.

Do we need someone to hit 20+ goals based on that?   No doubt it would be great, but necessary, not so sure.

I know its not traditional to win leagues like that, but hey, maybe we'll break the trend!

Coutinho and Mane could perhaps score 15 each. It certainly looks possible based on this season. Firmino might get there as well.

But that also shows where Sturridge is in the hierarchy nowadays. We know he has ability, but as soon as we talk about the players we expect to score the most goals, we hesitate to mention Sturridge. That tells me a lot. We like him, we don't want to part with him, but we are not willing to rely on him in a big role. We talk about him the same way we talk about Origi or Ings. The approach I want is the way we describe Mane or Coutinho. We see them as solutions so we can improve. We talk in terms 'they can hit 15 goals'. That's where we place our trust.

[sms1986]

Ben Smith thinks he will leave?

https://twitter.com/BSmith/status/868166299750453252

Is he normally reliable when it comes to Liverpool?

[rafathegaffa83]

Is he normally reliable when it comes to Liverpool?

I don't think he works in journalism anymore.

[spider-neil]

After watching football for years, this is what I know;

1. A lot of the time there are fine margins in games. A moment of magic can turn a loss in a draw or a draw into a win.

2. A lot of the time there are fine margins in quarter finals, semi finals and finals and moment of magic can win the tie.

3. Over the course of a season you WILL get injuries, the more intense the football the higher probability of injuries.

4. There are 3 stages of the season, the start (where you are getting up to speed with the league) the middle (during the grueling winter) and the run in (where it is just about getting results to get you over the line. Three distinct periods where the style of football can change and also the personnel. Who is a regular at the start may not be a regular in the middle or at the end.

5. The more quality players you have in your squad the more likely it is you'll have players capable of turning a game.

This is what I've observed about the game in the years I've been watching football.

This is what I've observed about watching Liverpool.

1. We tend to waste lots of money. There has been a conveyor belt of mediocrity.

2. We have a lot of trouble getting deals for the best players over the line.

3. A lot of the time players take time to settle.

This may be a cynical view but I can only say what I've seen. Yes, all of that is the past and we may well change and improve our ability to recruit top class talent. We'll see.

Basically, in conclusion, I don't want Sturridge sold because;

1. Even if you only get 25 games from him he may well be the difference between 5th and 4th or more optimistically 2nd and 1st or more optimistically still, winning a trophy or not.

2. There is nothing to say that (injuries permitting) even Sturridge isn't starting the season he wont be influential for a run of games.

3. Even off the bench Sturridge's impact is undeniable (Everton away '13/'14 and '16/'17).

4. I'm 'dubious' about our ability to replace someone of his quality especially in the position of center forward.

5. I couldn't give a fuck about how much money he is one. I'm a fan not an accountant. And even if I was an accountant I could point to the impact he had in the WH and Everton (away) game as crucial moments in the season which were the difference between 5th and 4th and that is worth millions and far exceeds the wage we gave him for next year.

6. I think Daniel's time can be managed to get the maximum out of him. Sturridge was actually available for selection a lot this season but his injuries unfortunately coincided with loss of Mané and Coutinho which meant his loss was felt more.

In conclusion, all all the accountants, bean counters and physio therapists can talk about money, data and analysis but all I care about is great players and how great players can change a game in an instant and from past experience I know how hard it is to acquire great players. If we landed great players every season I would be less bothered about the moving Sturridge on.

That is why I run for buses, if a bus came every minute I would be less arsed to run because I would know another bus is coming literally a minute later. But as everyone knows you may be waiting ages for the next bus.

[Frizzo]

Its as simple as that. We will not have a season where 3 of our players contribute with 15 goals in the league. Its impossible

Oh good. That settles it then.

[Purple Red]

Is he normally reliable when it comes to Liverpool?

From what I've seen he is fairly reliable and was one of the few BBC journalists that seemed to receive accurate information about the club. That said, you never know.

[Red Beret]

Daniel might not be able to handle a full season, but he will get us goals when he plays and help other players get goals as well.

Improve the overall quality of the squad so we can maintain cohesion and consistency when players are absent; additional attacker, couple of skilled midfielders to keep control, create opportunities and pressure the opposition, and at least one defender.  Cut out the sloppy work defending set pieces, which has dogged us for years, and improve our own goal threat from our set pieces.

Anybody who cannot see a role for Daniel in that set up is thinking too much in terms of individual players and not enough about the overall team ethic imo.

[CraigDS]

Seems more opinion than a fact. Imo.

[Haemoglobin]

Hows about we wait until we do actually have an 'upgrade' sorted, and then help him to move on if we need to and it's for the best?

You know, like... erm... every Liverpool player?

[Frizzo]

Hows about we wait until we do actually have an 'upgrade' sorted, and then help him to move on if we need to and it's for the best?

You know, like... erm... every Liverpool player?

I don't think anyone would argue with that.

[mascherano20]

I don't think anyone would argue with that.

Has to be this. Going into a season where our games will (hopefully) rise steeply, he gives us a massive advantage-off the bench. The difficulty for Klopp must be when he's making his gameplan for our next opponent to build it around Sturridge as the forward man-there's zero certainty that he'll still be fit by then! Our bench has been our undoing this season and to have him on it is a huge boost as an option. That way, the opposition is always wary of him coming on and changing a game and we don't go all week planning around him, then he's on the treatment table. Whether or not he feels that is enough for him remains to be seen.

[simesy]

Until he has a full season with no major injuries and is used more often than not and contributes with goals and a few assists we'll be talking about him in the same way year after year being frustrated when he cant play just like aurelio who was top class when he did play. Bring in a top striker whos good enough for the first team straight away then either sell him or hes back up on the bench. I dont think danny would be happy with that but we had a side this season that learnt how to win without him and thats something we've needed since suarez left.