Topic: Euro 2020 (2021) Chat & Final MATCH THREAD

[Wengerpresser101]

What about the talent at Italy's disposal?

We're better than them overall.

Chiellini is old, and our full backs are better than theirs. Midfield wise Verratti and Jorginho is decent, but we have Rice, Hendo, Mount. Up front we blow them away with Sancho, Sterling, Kane, Foden, Grealish, Saka to name a few, while they only have Chiesa and Insigne. I'd say defence we're better, midfield we're slightly better albeit more equal, and attack we're better. Only position where they're better is keeper, in that I reckon Donnaruma is better than Pickford.

Also in general I meant this England team is good enough to win an international competition, given the amount of talent in the squad.

[Gerry Attrick]

I worked in Corby for a very brief spell and encountered several people like this, albeit without the Rangersitis. They'd bulk hired a load of people from Motherwell for their steelworks (I think it was) and put them up in houses, paid them well, looked after them and made them feel welcome in their community. Moving from Motherwell, a lot of them naturally hadn't experienced that before. Haha!

  As I occasionally joke about where I'm from, the best things about it are the roads out.

[rob1966]

Still, didn't do you any harm eh?
So the stories go. Explains so much about recent and present PM's and Cabinets.
Haha, nicely done

I'm having flashes of Hugh Grant playing Jeremy Thorpe and the jar of vaseline scene.

[El Lobo]

As I occasionally joke about where I'm from, the best things about it are the roads out.

You're from Corby? Oh you poor, poor man.

[Gerry Attrick]

You're from Corby? Oh you poor, poor man.

No, from just outside Nottingham. Never knowingly walked a single step in Northamptonshire.

[rossipersempre]

...in that I reckon Donnaruma is better than Pickford.

You say that as if it's arguable and a close run thing.

A world class goalie is worth their weight in gold, as we know all too well (Ali vs Adrian/Karius).

Pickles is due a calamity at some point. Hope it comes on Sunday. Karma for Virgil.

[Phil M]

We're better than them overall.

Remains to be seen.

Chiellini is old, and our full backs are better than theirs. Midfield wise Verratti and Jorginho is decent, but we have Rice, Hendo, Mount. Up front we blow them away with Sancho, Sterling, Kane, Foden, Grealish, Saka to name a few, while they only have Chiesa and Insigne. I'd say defence we're better, midfield we're slightly better albeit more equal, and attack we're better. Only position where they're better is keeper, in that I reckon Donnaruma is better than Pickford.

Chiellini has been a huge part of them reaching the final. They've knocked out Belgium and Spain etc.

Hendo won't start. You'd have Rice/Phillips over Verratti/Jorginho / Barella etc?

Foden/Sancho most likely won't be starting either but bench wise I would say England have the better options available.

England have had world class squads on many occasions in the past, doesn't mean they automatically deserved to win anything.

Let the best team on the night win on Sunday, personally I hope it's Italy who triumph but full credit to Southgate and his team if they can come out on top.

[meady1981]

You know when something starts seeping into your day to day life, sub-consciously drip-fed, you don’t ever ask yourself what is it, but you’re aware of the same word you keep reading and hearing? Well that’s been what’s happening to me this last month with the word/name ‘matterface’. I’m aware people have been talking about it, and negatively. That’s not someone’s real name is it? Who is matterface? Some kind of Dick Tracy/Batman character?

Then on Saturday I watched my first England match on itv. And the only thing I can really take from it is just how awful the commentator is. The worst I’ve ever heard and that’s a low bar. It’s so awful I can’t quite figure out if I’m in a bad headspace and I’m not quite hearing it right. Surely this isn’t real. It literally makes Danny Murphy seem charismatic and insightful. And today I’ve just twigged that that was Matterface and now all I can think about is that he must be stopped. Has everyone been talking about this? Is there some kind of movement or campaign happening to get him sacked?

[scatman]

If you're asking that as an England fan, you should probably have spelt it effnik and added an 'innit' on to the end.

I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

[Welshred]

A midfield duo of Verratti and Jorginho is far, far superior to one of Rice and Phillips

[killer-heels]

A midfield duo of Verratti and Jorginho is far, far superior to one of Rice and Phillips

Barella is also incredible.

[Gerry Attrick]

I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

Been some belters on this subject during the tournament but none finer

[scatman]

I should also add, it doesnt mean I don't think England can do better with racism - everyone can - we've seen the Met and their corruption and racism, we've seen what happened to Dalian Atkinson. But after engaging with the FA and seeing what they provide to a wide range of people from across society, I've grown to appreciate the work that goes on. I've seen 10 year olds with cerebal palsy enjoying themselves whilst 20 years ago they'd have been ignored and laughed at. I've seen wheelchair users scoring goals, I've seen deaf girls showing amazing technical ability. For all we moan about the English FA being a group of old white men, the amount they do within the country, they really need to advertise it because a lot of it is absolutely amazing. That is a reflection of English society that is taken for granted by a lot of people because it's what should happen and should be the norm.

[killer-heels]

I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

You would do well to do worse than Spain in terms of the Western/Southern European nations. Always get told how amazing the people are and whilst I am not asian or black, I went there a couple of times with friends, some of whom were asian or black, and they suffered racist abuse on each occasion.

[El Lobo]

If you're asking that as an England fan, you should probably have spelt it effnik and added an 'innit' on to the end.

I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

Brilliant post scatman

[Yorkykopite]

I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

Post of the tournament.

Good luck in Poland.

[rossipersempre]

I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

Well that's put Andy in his place.

That's a quality post but the take home as always is its a matter of perspective and experience as you've graphically outlined.

That said, I think you're (understandably) still a little conflicted. Personally, I'm not sure how it feels to support a team alongside the traditional core support ascribe to opinions that would quite openly and happily have you receive the same racial abuse you've sadly received in other European countries. The English are no better, despite your anecdotal examples, if anything it's just slightly more veiled and subdermal in the current times.

[MichaelA]

I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

This is one of the most incredibly powerful things I have ever read on here. That's the England I will be supporting on Sunday. I am tempted to lock this thread, because I honestly think that any other comment is largely rendered irrelevant. I'll leave it open as I suspect many others will want to pass comment too. Scatman, I am awed, I have a lump in my throat. Thank you for sharing your experience.

Andy, you had better get your apologies in fella.

[Wengerpresser101]

Remains to be seen.

Chiellini has been a huge part of them reaching the final. They've knocked out Belgium and Spain etc.

Hendo won't start. You'd have Rice/Phillips over Verratti/Jorginho / Barella etc?

Foden/Sancho most likely won't be starting either but bench wise I would say England have the better options available.

England have had world class squads on many occasions in the past, doesn't mean they automatically deserved to win anything.

Let the best team on the night win on Sunday, personally I hope it's Italy who triump but full credit to Southgate and his team if they can come out on top.

Yeh Verrati/Jorginho/Barella are decent, but Rice/Phillips aren't bad either. That's why I said midfield they're similar. Overall I reckon England have the better team. 1 goal conceded in all the matches is a pretty impressive stat.

How it might play out is that Italy might have more control of the game or of the ball, higher possession stats due to their midfield, but unable to do much with it due to England's defence (0 goals conceded from open play in the whole tournament), and then England's attack being clinical and scoring the shots that matter.

England have had world class squads but I don't think they have had world class teams until now. Like they actually look like a team that works for each other. Also this is kinda off topic of football but I do like the social stuff that Rashford, Sterling, Hendo etc are doing, which makes a social impact.

[royhendo]

Lovely that Scatman. I can't even imagine it, such is the privileged bubble I float around in - thanks for sharing it.

[MichaelA]

as always is its a matter of perspective and experience as you've graphically outlined.

So basically what you're saying is that although he has shared his lived experience as a self described 'brown person', you are still going to assert that his lived experience doesn't tally with your view of what an england fan looks like? FFS, man, have a word with yourself.

[Romford_Red]

Football's coming home on Sunday. And deservedly so given the talent at our disposal. This is the best England team I've seen in all my years of watching football, both in terms of talent and playing as a team.

Not as good as that 96 team imo.

That team was remarkable. Even moreso because it was off the back of dismal failure at Euro 92 and failure to even qualify for WC94. People will no doubt say we had home advantage in that tourney, but after those failures, I feel the pressure to perform in a home tourney must actually have been as much of a drawback early on.

[Romford_Red]

I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

So now that Scatman has put everyone on their arses, lets go back to talking about the football

[Wengerpresser101]

You say that as if it's arguable and a close run thing.

A world class goalie is worth their weight in gold, as we know all too well (Ali vs Adrian/Karius).

Pickles is due a calamity at some point. Hope it comes on Sunday. Karma for Virgil.

I thought karma for Virgil was Benitez joining Everton and the fume resulting from it from the Evertonians. I'd say a keeper's worth is inversely correlated to the strength of the defensive setup in front of him. The crappier the defence, the higher the value a good keeper can bring. Conversely, the better a defence, the less work a keeper needs to do.

In that sense Pickford, who is solid, should be good enough as England have a decent defence, as shown by the amount of goals conceded. Despite him individually being not as good a keeper as Donnaruma.

[Rhi]

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

Nice to see RAWK's very own raging misogynist painting himself as some sort of modern day icon of acceptance. Hilarious.

[rossipersempre]

So basically what you're saying is that although he has shared his lived experience as a self described 'brown person', you are still going to assert that his lived experience doesn't tally with your view of what an england fan looks like? FFS, man, have a word with yourself.

I don't think I said anything of the kind there. Certainly not intentionally. But I've no wish to labour or argue the point further with you Michael, apologies to Scatman if it came across as insensitive.

[MichaelA]

Nice to see RAWK's very own raging misogynist painting himself as some sort of modern day icon of acceptance. Hilarious.

I don't think I said anything of the kind there. Certainly not intentionally. But I've no wish to labour or argue the point further with you Michael, apologies to Scatman if it came across as insensitive.

😂😂 these fucking  threads man. It’s like the canteen in One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest.   

RAWK, in three acts. Let's all move on. Can someone pleeeeeeaaase start a thread for the final?

[Morgana]

I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

This is a great post. There is plenty I could say in response to the suggestion that racism in Britain is nowhere near as bad as it is on the continent, but I won't. First, because that statement in itself is true at the core level, no matter how view, measure or describe racism and xenophobia. The UK is miles ahead in terms of progressivity, inclusiveness and empathy. Still, we have so many problems, with xenophobia as their root cause, that we cannot ignore that there is a festering underbelly of hate here, too... which brings me to the second point: it would take far to long to explain, and it would detract from the brilliant sentiments you've expressed in your post.

[scatman]

I wasn't trying to put Andy in his place, I think he's genuinely a nice soul who does get a bit vivacious about football. I've met a lot of people from this board in the past and a lot of you have your hearts in the right place. Hey I was even a huge idiot at the time but I've grown, I'm old and just trying to live life. Politics makes life harder for everyone and you can see it by the way it seeps into conversations about everything (hell even video games) but most people don't want that in life, even though in the back of your mind you realise what this government or that government is trying to do and how it's fucking up, you just want to enjoy certain things in life without them being associated back to those spineless politicians - like football.

[Andy82lfc]

I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

Great post Scatman and lot of this is heartbreaking to read and fantastic to put into perspective for a lot of people, but for people like myself less relevant to the reason why we dislike England.

It has been done to death ad nauseum, but the anti-england feeling a lot of scousers have is less to do with a faction of the England fans, brexit, xenophobia (although we should never measure our own failures imo just because another country is worse), feeling like not belonging etc and more to do with the historic links with the City and the government, authorities and press.

For a lot I suppose it is less like supporting Italy, more not supporting England, kind of like when Man united play against anyone 

[Yorkykopite]

Well that's put Andy in his place.

That's a quality post but the take home as always is its a matter of perspective and experience as you've graphically outlined.

That said, I think you're (understandably) still a little conflicted. Personally, I'm not sure how it feels to support a team alongside the traditional core support ascribe to opinions that would quite openly and happily have you receive the same racial abuse you've sadly received in other European countries. The English are no better, despite your anecdotal examples, if anything it's just slightly more veiled and subdermal in the current times.

That last sentence sounds wrong to me, but clearly others will be better qualified to answer.

As for "core support', Scatman is part of the core support. As are the Brixtonites who were going barmy when England won the semi. That's the whole point.

[Crosby Nick]

Not as good as that 96 team imo.

That team was remarkable. Even moreso because it was off the back of dismal failure at Euro 92 and failure to even qualify for WC94. People will no doubt say we had home advantage in that tourney, but after those failures, I feel the pressure to perform in a home tourney must actually have been as much of a drawback early on.

Is that just a case of standards dropping in international football dropping in recent years? That team were good but Germany were more of a winning machine (although that Euros win came between two embarrassing World Cup exits by their standards to Bulgaria and Croatia).

It’s been mentioned before but the England team under Sven were probably better but ran into some pretty fine teams in Brazil and Portugal twice to knock them out.

If this England team win they’ll have deserved it, no matter how we break down who they played along the way. Same for Italy. If they beat England then they’ll be fully deserving winners.

[Phil M]

How it might play out is that Italy might have more control of the game or of the ball, higher possession stats due to their midfield, but unable to do much with it due to England's defence (0 goals conceded from open play in the whole tournament), and then England's attack being clinical and scoring the shots that matter.

italy also have a terrific defence and are unbeaten in I think 33 games now. England will need to work very hard to gain and keep possession, it might come down to how well they counter attack or if they can benefit from set pieces as there's sure to be plenty of free kicks conceded throughout. Spain troubled Italy by keeping the ball and their intelligent off the ball movement between the lines from the likes of Pedri, Koke, Olmo and Torres, but they made over 800 passes which England won't get near, they won't be afforded the space and time the likes of Denmark and Ukraine and I'd even argue Germany gave them at times so will be interesting to see what tactical plan Southgate comes up with.

[scatman]

Nice to see RAWK's very own raging misogynist painting himself as some sort of modern day icon of acceptance. Hilarious.

People change, I was wrong back then. It's that simple, you knew me over a decade ago. You don't have to forgive me for any/all transgressions I made.

[gazzalfc]

Bjorn Kuipers will ref the final.

[Alan_X]

I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit

Brilliant post scatman.

[scatman]

Great post Scatman and lot of this is heartbreaking to read and fantastic to put into perspective for a lot of people, but for people like myself less relevant to the reason why we dislike England.

It has been done to death ad nauseum, but the anti-england feeling a lot of scousers have is less to do with a faction of the England fans, brexit, xenophobia (although we should never measure our own failures imo just because another country is worse), feeling like not belonging etc and more to do with the historic links with the City and the government, authorities and press.

For a lot I suppose it is less like supporting Italy, more not supporting England, kind of like when Man united play against anyone 

I understand, I can also understand why the Welsh, Irish and Scots don't wish England well too.

[Wullie160975]

Interestingly, I'd have no problem wishing the England team well (after all, we're the only team they've faced that they haven't beaten yet), if I could be guaranteed not to have to have deal with the overhyped commentators and media.

[Romford_Red]

Is that just a case of standards dropping in international football dropping in recent years? That team were good but Germany were more of a winning machine (although that Euros win came between two embarrassing World Cup exits by their standards to Bulgaria and Croatia).

It’s been mentioned before but the England team under Sven were probably better but ran into some pretty fine teams in Brazil and Portugal twice to knock them out.

If this England team win they’ll have deserved it, no matter how we break down who they played along the way. Same for Italy. If they beat England then they’ll be fully deserving winners.

I certainly understand people saying later teams, with Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham, Ferdinand, Owen, Rooney, etc were better. It's definitely difficult to definitively say one is better than the other, but I think for me the reason the 96 team will always be better in my mind is that that period of football was more 'pure'.

What I mean by that is that it was before football became so hyper-analysed. Nowadays if you face a team, there's so much data and analysis done. Specially tailored game-plans for teams and individual players. Games often resemble chess matches where one team are (or at least feel they are) inferior and it leads to mostly one team attacking and one team defending. I'm not saying that there was none of that analysis and planning then, just that there was far less of it. Before all of that football felt a lot more chaotic and dynamic. The fate of the team dictated by them playing their game rather than playing against the other teams game (if that makes sense)

I mean it's probably rose tinted glasses as well. The summer of 96 was probably the best days of my life. I mean I've had better individual things happen, but that summer was 2-3 months of just outrageous fun. Weather was good too

[Kenny's Jacket]

Is that just a case of standards dropping in international football dropping in recent years? That team were good but Germany were more of a winning machine (although that Euros win came between two embarrassing World Cup exits by their standards to Bulgaria and Croatia).

It’s been mentioned before but the England team under Sven were probably better but ran into some pretty fine teams in Brazil and Portugal twice to knock them out.

If this England team win they’ll have deserved it, no matter how we break down who they played along the way. Same for Italy. If they beat England then they’ll be fully deserving winners.

what you upto,  Trying to turn this into a football thread?