Author Topic: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...  (Read 87598 times)

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1160 on: September 19, 2010, 06:51:33 PM »
Dermot Gallagher said the rules state that only if it's a clear goalscoring opportunity then it's a red and that Van Der Sar would have got to the ball first. I screamed for a red card for ages though ;)
Exactly, in the moment I was livid, but looking at the replay, even considering the gulf in pace, Torres was NEVER going to get to that ball first - it simply wasn't physically possible. I mentioned it earlier but even Usain Bolt would have struggled to close that gap. A Cheetah might have made it, but last I looked Torres didn't have spots, four legs, a long tail and a worryingly inbred genetic heritage.

He's got similarly lovely blonde/golden fur though - make of that what you will.

Offline 12Kings

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1161 on: September 19, 2010, 06:51:58 PM »
This is pointless really. Roy was a short term fix all along. If you check his CV he jumps ship on average every 2 seasons. Except for Fulham were he made that a record 3. If we're relegated though this season I think he might be sacked.

If Tom Hicks has full control come 2 weeks time then I hope we do get relegated.

Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1162 on: September 19, 2010, 06:52:05 PM »
I don't know why people are so doom and gloom after the tough start we've had. Sunderland and Blackpool at home are our next 2 games. 6 points.

We have had a very tough start. Manchester City away, Brum away, Mancs away, Arsenal at home. Very tough. Its done now though and hopefully we can pick up some decent points.
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Offline AriGold

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1163 on: September 19, 2010, 06:53:12 PM »
We have had a very tough start. Manchester City away, Brum away, Mancs away, Arsenal at home. Very tough. Its done now though and hopefully we can pick up some decent points.
Exactly. Some people need to either fuck off or grow a pair of bollocks, some people saying we'll struggle to make top 10 etc etc.
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Offline redforlife

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1164 on: September 19, 2010, 06:54:20 PM »
A lot's about confidence though, i'd say Sunderland will be confident of getting something against us next week, we're hardly flying going into the game.  It might actually not be too bad an idea to give Torres a game midweek, see if he can play himself into form.
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Offline mikeb58

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1165 on: September 19, 2010, 06:54:36 PM »
Not read much of this thread to be honest, got a feeling far too much of it will have a very predictable edge to it.

Anyway, lost by the same margin last year I believe, after going an early goal up too, so for a new manager still sorting his way through new methods and combinations no big shock in the performance/ score line.

Listening to Gerrard on 5Live before, he said he was quite happy they way we played, and if we continue to improve under Roy he said 'We'll win more than we'll lose'

As Stevie rightly said it'll take and a bit of time and patience for Liverpool to come good this season, I'll go along with that assessment cos it's a reasonable assumption to make, considering the problems on and off the field Roy inherited.

We've had a very tricky opening 5 games to the season, I'd say those games had just one 'banker' in our favour, which we won. The rest all pretty much as last season, bar City (not surprisingly) and Arsenal which  bar a crazy fluke we would have won instead of drawn, either way an improvement on the loss we suffered in the corresponding game last season.

Keep it going Roy, I believe you'll improve our league postion this season and get us a top 5/6 finish.
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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1166 on: September 19, 2010, 06:54:43 PM »
Spurs will suffer due to CL. Its new to them and they were lucky to beat Wolves yesterday and I think they lost to Wigan after their other CL match.

Sure it's new to them, but their squad depth is ok (not fantastic, but not dire either) I don't see us finishing higher than them. Nothing I have seen in opening 5 games has convinced me we can do it. But it's early days and we have had a couple of tough games, I will be able to tell more after sunderland and blackpool games.

Offline Cybertom

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1167 on: September 19, 2010, 06:55:27 PM »
Eh? Which fucking game were you watching Poulsen is so slow to move the ball it's untrue and Nani fucking tortured Konchesky... fuck me some fuckers want to take the red tinted glasses off we were fucking shite

Me!?
We lost by one goal away to one of the best teams of the past decade, who had a striker who is on sensational form and carried them!
We only played shite in one department, and that was the final third.
We had lots more ball in midfield; Carragher struggled with Berbatov, that was the biggest worry.
Yes Nani had the better of Konchesky of Nani sometimes, but he was a lot more solid than Aurelio or Insua would of been.
Yeah Poulsen is slow and doesnt create much of a threat - but in terms of making tackles he played well. Did Scholes really play well? No, because Poulsen did well to watch him. Poulsen was there lots of times to clean up a loose ball or make an important tackle.

You need to take off your pessimistic glasses - it wasnt a terrible performance, just unlucky with Berbatov being on great form and Carragher not.


Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1169 on: September 19, 2010, 06:56:14 PM »
Opinions differ of course and thats fair enough but for me its far too early to be writing Roy off and we have to lower our expectations , partly because of the owners , but mostly because of the managers ways of working. The players need time to adjust to that.
I honestly believe that once they do we can really battle for the league and the cups but its going to take a while, maybe a whole season.


No, we don't have to lower our expectations. Roy has even said himself that the aim is top four. If that's the club's target, then the supporters shouldn't aim for less. The aim has to be top four.

Doesn't mean we have to sack Roy or sell half the squad if we fail to reach the target. But we have to keep our aim high. And top four is very realistic for us, it's been a minimum target for at least ten years. Just look at our bench today and compare to what the Mancs had. We're at least on par with them there, so our squad should be alright.

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Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1170 on: September 19, 2010, 06:57:04 PM »
My thoughts on the game.......


I think most of us agree that Roy got it wrong to start with , i think the midfield was a bit out of place , Raul should have played deeper and Stevie ahead ,though all credit to Roy for changing things up at half time when it was clear things weren't going our way , i won't elaborate on the Roy v Rafa debate as i think most things have been said , what i will say is , i am a massive Rafa fan and i think Rafa is a superior manager to Roy Hodgson , however we must give Roy a chance to implement his ideas on the team. Lets not forget this was the first time he was able to field Cole , Mereiles , Gerrard , and Torres in the same team , the link up between these four players was promising for 20 minutes in the second half , alas not enough to get us a result.


As most have said , we look so shaky when any high ball comes inton the 18 yard box and Berbatovs goals all came from crosses where he was afforded far too much time and space , two years ago when Carra and Skrtel played together we got away with it , due to the fact the team was so well drilled and we had full backs who were able to cover whenever teams did manage to plunder the offside trap , then there was the fact teams didn't press us nearly as much due to the fact we were so devastating on the counter attack , if teams wanted to press us high up the park , we had the trio of Alonso-Gerrard-Torres to swiftly punish teams that left even the smallest of holes in their backline. How many times did people say how cool Alonso looked under pressure from 1,2 ,3 men , what happend was , teams knew Alonso was the metranome of our whole team the guy that made us tick , so managers simply told their players to put pressure on Alonso and nick the ball high up , but because Alonso was so adept at putting the ball through the eye of a needle , the opposing teams centre midfielders would rush to Alonso , leaving the gap for Gerrard who then drew the centre backs out for Torres , everything under Rafa was connected , the team was tuned to the smallest detail. Now teams can be happy to press us high up the field as they know Lucas , Poulson , or whoever it may be don't have the ability to retain possesion as well as Xabi and thus takes a huge proportion of Gerrard and Torres's effectiveness away.

For what it's worth , i thought Poulson was impressive today with his passing and tackling , the game was lost from the wings , not from where Poulson was operating , i think the reason some jumped on his back is due to the simple reason some of our fans have made their mind up on him and just trot out cliche's , when infact this was his best game by far in a Liverpool shirt.
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Offline FernandoTourettes

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1171 on: September 19, 2010, 06:57:09 PM »
Looking at all our conceded goals, we really did miss someone with the aerial presence of Sami. Minus Berbatov today, the Nani shot against the post was the closest they came to scoring for all the pressure.

In hindsight, Utd really never 'got round the back' or seemed to ever try to play through the middle. The game plan seemed to be about playing the ball out to the wings and get the crosses in to the box - which work perfectly for them. Now Kyriakos would not have been a first choice for me on the pitch against Utd but he is better in the air than our current 3 first choice CBs.

 

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1172 on: September 19, 2010, 06:57:17 PM »
Sure it's new to them, but their squad depth is ok (not fantastic, but not dire either) I don't see us finishing higher than them. Nothing I have seen in opening 5 games has convinced me we can do it. But it's early days and we have had a couple of tough games, I will be able to tell more after sunderland and blackpool games.

Arsenal, Man City, Brum, Man Utd and West Brom - Thats a tough opening start for any club.

Roy and the team gets judged over the next 4 games for me.

Offline shockwave_dave

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1173 on: September 19, 2010, 06:57:31 PM »
And now I have to have a burnt Sunday roast with a family of fat, ugly, annoying s**m fans.


I originally read that as "fat, ugly, annoying s&m fans."

That would have been a nightmare!

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Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1175 on: September 19, 2010, 07:00:05 PM »
I liked this from Rafa.

"I am honestly surprised that an experienced and important manager like him said these things and spoke so much about me, considering I've been in Italy for three months.

"I can only add that the Liverpool fans know the story and they know the truth.

"They also know it's easy to judge when you've been in power for 24 years."

Fair do's for saying that.
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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1176 on: September 19, 2010, 07:00:55 PM »


Aye, agree with the Poulsen bit. He didn't do everything right from start to finish, but there were clear glimpses, particularly in the second half, of the type of role he's supposed to play for us. I think he made three good interceptions in a row at one point. More of Raul and Poulsen would be nice for a run of games.

Offline neilinneslfc

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1177 on: September 19, 2010, 07:01:31 PM »
To make it worse, he wasn't alone. Had it not been for those two set pieces from Gerrard, we wouldn't even have been in the game.

This is what concerns me the most, ok we got back into the game, but if it wasn't for set pieces we would of never got back into the game. Never looked like scoring at all with Torres up top all alone. Thought it looked better once we got ngog up there with him but no doubt we'll continue with the one up front thing as that's what's fashionable to play these days.
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Offline redtrev

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1178 on: September 19, 2010, 07:01:55 PM »
The rafa Roy comparison is a complete non runner so I think it kinda pointless comparing any more. We have what we have that's it really.

It's nit loosing today that has annoyed me more the continuation of shit football where we can't hold onto the ball and can't head the ball in either penalty box.

Are we setting up to at counter attacking football with cole and maxi as wingers? If so I have to say it smacks of ineptitude form Roy considering we have pace sitting on the bench in babel.

Can't be bothered trying to figure out what we are trying to do anymore I'm just resigned to watching shite ping pong but involving the oposition after two passes.

Offline OohCampione

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1179 on: September 19, 2010, 07:03:01 PM »
Hahaha it's just gets worse and worse. But hopefully it's a bullshit story

actually, I hope the story is 100% correct.

I'd rather have new owners and O'Neil than Roy and the Yanks.

If Roy is collateral damage during a takeover than so be it
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Offline Cybertom

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1180 on: September 19, 2010, 07:03:22 PM »
Arsenal, Man City, Brum, Man Utd and West Brom - Thats a tough opening start for any club.

Roy and the team gets judged over the next 4 games for me.

Yepp.
I expected 7 points from this season at this point. (I thought this at the start, before the Arsenal game)
Draw vs Arsenal
Loss vs City
Win vs WBA
Win vs Birm (Ino its hard, but I thought with Cole and Meireles we could win)
Loss vs Utd

Ive only been let down 2 points, and thats because neither Cole or Raul started the game I thought would be different.
We must win our next 3 or 4 games, otherwise our position in the league could go to our heads.

Offline El Campeador

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1181 on: September 19, 2010, 07:05:04 PM »
That makes it murky now. If you want to criticise Roy for being appointed by this board, then fair enough. But should those criticisms be football related? Do Rafa's fuck ups (and how many times did we think he should have gone for the jugular rather than take the more 'conservative' approach at times?) mean less than Roy's because of the people they were hired by were different?

I'm not criticizing Hodgson because he was brought in by this board - I'm only suggesting that he doesn't get the automatic support that I gave other managers because of it. That's not something I can explain, it's just my own personal feelings. I've personally been against many decisions that the board and the owners have taken. It would take something special for me to line up unquestioningly behind one of their decisions, because their track record is, frankly, shit.

Like I suggested, and you picked up on, Hodgson's football results on the pitch may take me from "uncomfortable observer of Hodgson's appointment" to "outright proponent of the Hodgson Way". So far, he's really given me little to suggest the change was for footballing reasons, that we got a superior manager in the footballing sense for the 11.5 million quid we spent to upgrade managers. But football's an afterthought.

Business wise, the direction is alarming. The squad is getting older in a hurry due to the age of his recruits and the age of the Rafa-era players that Hodgson has chosen to keep, and the money's running out. We'll have to replace Konchesky, Kuyt, Gerrard, Carra, Maxi, Cole, Poulsen, Jovanovic, Kyrgiakos, and Aurelio within the next 3 years. Even Torres, Meireles and Johnson are the wrong side of 25. Even if this flock of players starts bringing in results, we're gonna be fucked soon. We don't have any Patos or Messis on our team. The youngest player who has a claim to the word "starter" is Lucas, and he's the most picked on member of this team, and I don't expect him to be around for much longer. Insua is gone. Ayala is on loan. Mikel San Jose starts for Bilbao. Two kids were swapped for Konchesky. Nemeth is in Greece. The Riojas bought for 2015 are being popped without any thought to Best Drinking Date.

But getting back to Rafa - I disagree with your statement that "we" thought he should have gone for the jugular when he "settled" for something less. Rafa had the right approach - first become dead hard to beat, then worry about converting the draws into wins. Everyone bitched about the draws in 2008/2009 - well I'd give my left arsecheek for that many draws every season. Every season Baz. I would take that many draws every season. Let me say that again so that there is no confusion. I would take that many draws every league campaign.

You know why? Because Rafa had it right - with that many draws, and taking something like 14 points from top 4 teams (that's sick) we still had the most points that any second place team ever had. If we did that every year, we'd be within shouting distance of the title every season. Most of us just cannot wrap our limited intellect around the fact that it's not about one hand; it's about getting to the final table. Just because you create chances to see a flop, it doesn't mean you go all in every hand. It's a campaign. Fuck going for it every minute, instead be hard to beat and consistent. Take the points from home/away matchups against top opposition. That's it, djes. You don't need to go for broke against Stoke. Most times, Kuyt's opener counts, and Gerrard's shot goes in off the post. Meanwhile, you accumulate a war chest from Champions League revenue, and spend a percentage of it on a lot - a lot - of cheap, promising kids.

Instead, we did what Rafa always said not to do. We pushed harder than we should have in 2009/2010 when we didn't really have a chance at winning the hand, lost when it was obvious we weren't gonna win, took that as an indictment of Rafa and the whole fucking system, and then tilted madly. Victims of emotion. Pathetic really.

Quote
It's funny because everything Roy's getting criticised for is the same things Rafa used to get criticised for. The result at OT last season was shite as well, and that's when we went 1-0 up!

I can't speak for most people, Baz, but my discomfort with how we look now isn't about plucking random results and comparing them. It's about the entire tournament, indeed, the entire portfolio, not an isolated case by case comparison. Rafa made it so that you didn't give a shit which fucking ball emerged of Platini's jar. On any given day, Rafa's Rojas - a portfolio full of individual results that may look questionable in isolation - looked like something I'd put my money on. On any given day. You can't say that now. Would you fancy something out of an away trip to Inter Milan right now? Would you fuck. He'd fucking rip us to shreds, then look at his watch, the fat fuck.

Whether he bought Alonso for 10m or sold him for 30m, whether he bought Mascherano or sold Sissoko, whether Crouch fired blanks or became prolific for England, whether he swapped Josemi for Kromkamp (sp?) or Dudek for Reina, whether he played Gerrard on the right or off Torres, whether he "went for it" or "settled for a draw", whether he won in Istanbul or made 2 finals in 3 years, whether he stuck with Bellamy or bought Torres, on or off, whether his team conceded 4 to Arshavin or hit Chelsea for 4 at the Bridge - Rafa earned my respect, and my support because the longterm results were overwhelmingly positive. Random decisions and results mean nothing.

If Rafa were a fund, I'd invest in it. It looks like it would feature consistent performance, profits, and dividends - possibly boring, but those are usually stellart investments. I didn't disagree with any single individual thing Rafa did, especially not fucking subs or silly shit like "going for it" because I knew that over time, I was in the right hands. Day to day decisions may have indeed been random; but the long term results were on an upward trajectory. In his shittiest year, he came within minutes of a European final. That's long term results smoothed out for ya.

Unfortunately, some of us sound like folks who sold a longterm winner at the first sign of trouble, hopped onto a risky stock, and are now peering intently at the price over the last week, while alarm bells are ringing on the one year chart. "Oh it'll be alright, Rafa lost at Trafford too, it's not so bad," they say.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1182 on: September 19, 2010, 07:06:02 PM »
actually, I hope the story is 100% correct.

I'd rather have new owners and O'Neil than Roy and the Yanks.

If Roy is collateral damage during a takeover than so be it

Ah I read the story wrong, though it said if Hicks takes over he wants MON in.

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1183 on: September 19, 2010, 07:06:52 PM »
This is pointless really. Roy was a short term fix all along. If you check his CV he jumps ship on average every 2 seasons. Except for Fulham were he made that a record 3. If we're relegated though this season I think he might be sacked.

If Tom Hicks has full control come 2 weeks time then I hope we do get relegated.
I felt the same way about Hodgson, but 5 games in and we are 5th from bottom. Only saving grace is that it's early days still.
The only thing the will truly destroy us, is that if Hicks and Gillett, more so Hicks (God forbid) does get full control of LFC.
The word FUBAR comes to mind. We won't have any money to strengthen a team that badly needs strengthening. And Roy may eventually give up if results continue to be poor and will probably feel he is unable to do anything else with the team.

Hicks and Gillett are an evil curse that needs to be exorcised out of the club. As much as we love our football and want our team to win despite the dire straits we're in. They have to go first!

If I wasn't in my right mind I'll arrange for some to do a job on him. I may even do it myself.


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Offline Borninbethlehem

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1184 on: September 19, 2010, 07:07:16 PM »
Arsenal, Man City, Brum, Man Utd and West Brom - Thats a tough opening start for any club.

Roy and the team gets judged over the next 4 games for me.

This. Very disappointing start, but next 4 games are crucial. We NEED to take at least 10 points from our next 4 games.

Offline redtrev

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1185 on: September 19, 2010, 07:07:59 PM »
Typical response from rafa. Clear and to the point and with dignity.

Pity he isn't represnting us no more.

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1186 on: September 19, 2010, 07:08:24 PM »
People are totally blind and have no perception of speed and time on the pitch

Because he was brought down it looks like the ball just harmlessly rolls to Van der cheat. He wouldve got there probably have gone round Van der Sar and scored. This is the reason O'Shea brought him down in the first place.

Fucking Red. All day long. Webb is a bottler and yet another toy on the Whiskeynoses conveyor belt. I cant believe now I was the slightest bit concerned that he got booed by everyone in the stadium at the World Cup final

Fucking belatedly get in for that.
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Offline 1021

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1188 on: September 19, 2010, 07:08:59 PM »
El Campeador, that last post was fantastic.
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline karrmadamaii

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1189 on: September 19, 2010, 07:10:03 PM »
I almost spat on my screen when I saw this.

No more than twice per season. I'm going to dig out how many times we've conceded more than 3 goals & put it side by side. Though don't think I'll be spending a lot of time on that =] Oh well...

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1190 on: September 19, 2010, 07:12:05 PM »
This. Very disappointing start, but next 4 games are crucial. We NEED to take at least 10 points from our next 4 games.
Agreed
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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1191 on: September 19, 2010, 07:13:48 PM »
Sorry mate , but their's no need for that whatsoever.

No mate, it's 100% in order, as I said - give me shit if you like.

Rednich has gotten involved fine anyway - it's not necessarily him I meant.

It's far more likely direct action's gonna be possible now - god knows we've been trying to help build momentum for it. But the momentum comes from everyone fighting a little here, a little there. As it stands you can count on your fingers and toes the people grafting and putting their creativity into this today. They've watched the game aswell and have personal shit to sort out.

The game? No different to many of our performances at Old Trafford for several years. Basics cost us again. The passing game is in there. But the problems are the same as they were for much of last year. Kid yourself on they're not if you want and that we saw a machine-like pressing game last season, but it's bollocks. Catenacciobwas being thrown about for long spells last year.

Brad Jones and N'Gog will get game time when the two big Spaniards leave. Doom - enjoy the flavour y'all. ;)

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1192 on: September 19, 2010, 07:16:01 PM »
Did Roy leave his seat at all during the game?

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1193 on: September 19, 2010, 07:16:07 PM »
El Campeador, that last post was fantastic.

Straight from the heart, it shows. Respect.

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1194 on: September 19, 2010, 07:16:13 PM »
I'm not criticizing Hodgson because he was brought in by this board - I'm only suggesting that he doesn't get the automatic support that I gave other managers because of it. That's not something I can explain, it's just my own personal feelings. I've personally been against many decisions that the board and the owners have taken. It would take something special for me to line up unquestioningly behind one of their decisions, because their track record is, frankly, shit.

Like I suggested, and you picked up on, Hodgson's football results on the pitch may take me from "uncomfortable observer of Hodgson's appointment" to "outright proponent of the Hodgson Way". So far, he's really given me little to suggest the change was for footballing reasons, that we got a superior manager in the footballing sense for the 11.5 million quid we spent to upgrade managers. But football's an afterthought.

Business wise, the direction is alarming. The squad is getting older in a hurry due to the age of his recruits and the age of the Rafa-era players that Hodgson has chosen to keep, and the money's running out. We'll have to replace Konchesky, Kuyt, Gerrard, Carra, Maxi, Cole, Poulsen, Jovanovic, Kyrgiakos, and Aurelio within the next 3 years. Even Torres, Meireles and Johnson are the wrong side of 25. Even if this flock of players starts bringing in results, we're gonna be fucked soon. We don't have any Patos or Messis on our team. The youngest player who has a claim to the word "starter" is Lucas, and he's the most picked on member of this team, and I don't expect him to be around for much longer. Insua is gone. Ayala is on loan. Mikel San Jose starts for Bilbao. Two kids were swapped for Konchesky. Nemeth is in Greece. The Riojas bought for 2015 are being popped without any thought to Best Drinking Date.

But getting back to Rafa - I disagree with your statement that "we" thought he should have gone for the jugular when he "settled" for something less. Rafa had the right approach - first become dead hard to beat, then worry about converting the draws into wins. Everyone bitched about the draws in 2008/2009 - well I'd give my left arsecheek for that many draws every season. Every season Baz. I would take that many draws every season. Let me say that again so that there is no confusion. I would take that many draws every league campaign.

You know why? Because Rafa had it right - with that many draws, and taking something like 14 points from top 4 teams (that's sick) we still had the most points that any second place team ever had. If we did that every year, we'd be within shouting distance of the title every season. Most of us just cannot wrap our limited intellect around the fact that it's not about one hand; it's about getting to the final table. Just because you create chances to see a flop, it doesn't mean you go all in every hand. It's a campaign. Fuck going for it every minute, instead be hard to beat and consistent. Take the points from home/away matchups against top opposition. That's it, djes. You don't need to go for broke against Stoke. Most times, Kuyt's opener counts, and Gerrard's shot goes in off the post. Meanwhile, you accumulate a war chest from Champions League revenue, and spend a percentage of it on a lot - a lot - of cheap, promising kids.

Instead, we did what Rafa always said not to do. We pushed harder than we should have in 2009/2010 when we didn't really have a chance at winning the hand, lost when it was obvious we weren't gonna win, took that as an indictment of Rafa and the whole fucking system, and then tilted madly. Victims of emotion. Pathetic really.

I can't speak for most people, Baz, but my discomfort with how we look now isn't about plucking random results and comparing them. It's about the entire tournament, indeed, the entire portfolio, not an isolated case by case comparison. Rafa made it so that you didn't give a shit which fucking ball emerged of Platini's jar. On any given day, Rafa's Rojas - a portfolio full of individual results that may look questionable in isolation - looked like something I'd put my money on. On any given day. You can't say that now. Would you fancy something out of an away trip to Inter Milan right now? Would you fuck. He'd fucking rip us to shreds, then look at his watch, the fat fuck.

Whether he bought Alonso for 10m or sold him for 30m, whether he bought Mascherano or sold Sissoko, whether Crouch fired blanks or became prolific for England, whether he swapped Josemi for Kromkamp (sp?) or Dudek for Reina, whether he played Gerrard on the right or off Torres, whether he "went for it" or "settled for a draw", whether he won in Istanbul or made 2 finals in 3 years, whether he stuck with Bellamy or bought Torres, on or off, whether his team conceded 4 to Arshavin or hit Chelsea for 4 at the Bridge - Rafa earned my respect, and my support because the longterm results were overwhelmingly positive. Random decisions and results mean nothing.

If Rafa were a fund, I'd invest in it. It looks like it would feature consistent performance, profits, and dividends - possibly boring, but those are usually stellart investments. I didn't disagree with any single individual thing Rafa did, especially not fucking subs or silly shit like "going for it" because I knew that over time, I was in the right hands. Day to day decisions may have indeed been random; but the long term results were on an upward trajectory. In his shittiest year, he came within minutes of a European final. That's long term results smoothed out for ya.

Unfortunately, some of us sound like folks who sold a longterm winner at the first sign of trouble, hopped onto a risky stock, and are now peering intently at the price over the last week, while alarm bells are ringing on the one year chart. "Oh it'll be alright, Rafa lost at Trafford too, it's not so bad," they say.

Nothing could be further from the truth.
absolutely brilliant evaluation.bloody well done for that.

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1195 on: September 19, 2010, 07:16:19 PM »
I felt the same way about Hodgson, but 5 games in and we are 5th from bottom.
We've played Arsenal, City and United FFS. And if we win one game we'll be in the top 8 or 9 most likely. Nutter.

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1196 on: September 19, 2010, 07:17:16 PM »

Great post, I especially liked the Rafa/Roy investment fund comparison.

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1197 on: September 19, 2010, 07:18:53 PM »
I'm not criticizing Hodgson because he was brought in by this board - I'm only suggesting that he doesn't get the automatic support that I gave other managers because of it. That's not something I can explain, it's just my own personal feelings. I've personally been against many decisions that the board and the owners have taken. It would take something special for me to line up unquestioningly behind one of their decisions, because their track record is, frankly, shit.

Like I suggested, and you picked up on, Hodgson's football results on the pitch may take me from "uncomfortable observer of Hodgson's appointment" to "outright proponent of the Hodgson Way". So far, he's really given me little to suggest the change was for footballing reasons, that we got a superior manager in the footballing sense for the 11.5 million quid we spent to upgrade managers. But football's an afterthought.

Business wise, the direction is alarming. The squad is getting older in a hurry due to the age of his recruits and the age of the Rafa-era players that Hodgson has chosen to keep, and the money's running out. We'll have to replace Konchesky, Kuyt, Gerrard, Carra, Maxi, Cole, Poulsen, Jovanovic, Kyrgiakos, and Aurelio within the next 3 years. Even Torres, Meireles and Johnson are the wrong side of 25. Even if this flock of players starts bringing in results, we're gonna be fucked soon. We don't have any Patos or Messis on our team. The youngest player who has a claim to the word "starter" is Lucas, and he's the most picked on member of this team, and I don't expect him to be around for much longer. Insua is gone. Ayala is on loan. Mikel San Jose starts for Bilbao. Two kids were swapped for Konchesky. Nemeth is in Greece. The Riojas bought for 2015 are being popped without any thought to Best Drinking Date.

But getting back to Rafa - I disagree with your statement that "we" thought he should have gone for the jugular when he "settled" for something less. Rafa had the right approach - first become dead hard to beat, then worry about converting the draws into wins. Everyone bitched about the draws in 2008/2009 - well I'd give my left arsecheek for that many draws every season. Every season Baz. I would take that many draws every season. Let me say that again so that there is no confusion. I would take that many draws every league campaign.

You know why? Because Rafa had it right - with that many draws, and taking something like 14 points from top 4 teams (that's sick) we still had the most points that any second place team ever had. If we did that every year, we'd be within shouting distance of the title every season. Most of us just cannot wrap our limited intellect around the fact that it's not about one hand; it's about getting to the final table. Just because you create chances to see a flop, it doesn't mean you go all in every hand. It's a campaign. Fuck going for it every minute, instead be hard to beat and consistent. Take the points from home/away matchups against top opposition. That's it, djes. You don't need to go for broke against Stoke. Most times, Kuyt's opener counts, and Gerrard's shot goes in off the post. Meanwhile, you accumulate a war chest from Champions League revenue, and spend a percentage of it on a lot - a lot - of cheap, promising kids.

Instead, we did what Rafa always said not to do. We pushed harder than we should have in 2009/2010 when we didn't really have a chance at winning the hand, lost when it was obvious we weren't gonna win, took that as an indictment of Rafa and the whole fucking system, and then tilted madly. Victims of emotion. Pathetic really.

I can't speak for most people, Baz, but my discomfort with how we look now isn't about plucking random results and comparing them. It's about the entire tournament, indeed, the entire portfolio, not an isolated case by case comparison. Rafa made it so that you didn't give a shit which fucking ball emerged of Platini's jar. On any given day, Rafa's Rojas - a portfolio full of individual results that may look questionable in isolation - looked like something I'd put my money on. On any given day. You can't say that now. Would you fancy something out of an away trip to Inter Milan right now? Would you fuck. He'd fucking rip us to shreds, then look at his watch, the fat fuck.

Whether he bought Alonso for 10m or sold him for 30m, whether he bought Mascherano or sold Sissoko, whether Crouch fired blanks or became prolific for England, whether he swapped Josemi for Kromkamp (sp?) or Dudek for Reina, whether he played Gerrard on the right or off Torres, whether he "went for it" or "settled for a draw", whether he won in Istanbul or made 2 finals in 3 years, whether he stuck with Bellamy or bought Torres, on or off, whether his team conceded 4 to Arshavin or hit Chelsea for 4 at the Bridge - Rafa earned my respect, and my support because the longterm results were overwhelmingly positive. Random decisions and results mean nothing.

If Rafa were a fund, I'd invest in it. It looks like it would feature consistent performance, profits, and dividends - possibly boring, but those are usually stellart investments. I didn't disagree with any single individual thing Rafa did, especially not fucking subs or silly shit like "going for it" because I knew that over time, I was in the right hands. Day to day decisions may have indeed been random; but the long term results were on an upward trajectory. In his shittiest year, he came within minutes of a European final. That's long term results smoothed out for ya.

Unfortunately, some of us sound like folks who sold a longterm winner at the first sign of trouble, hopped onto a risky stock, and are now peering intently at the price over the last week, while alarm bells are ringing on the one year chart. "Oh it'll be alright, Rafa lost at Trafford too, it's not so bad," they say.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

THIS.

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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1198 on: September 19, 2010, 07:20:00 PM »
People are totally blind and have no perception of speed and time on the pitch

Because he was brought down it looks like the ball just harmlessly rolls to Van der cheat. He wouldve got there probably have gone round Van der Sar and scored. This is the reason O'Shea brought him down in the first place.

Fucking Red. All day long. Webb is a bottler and yet another toy on the Whiskeynoses conveyor belt. I cant believe now I was the slightest bit concerned that he got booed by everyone in the stadium at the World Cup final

Fucking belatedly get in for that.

couldnt agree more
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Re: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...
« Reply #1199 on: September 19, 2010, 07:20:33 PM »
Unfortunately, some of us sound like folks who sold a longterm winner at the first sign of trouble, hopped onto a risky stock, and are now peering intently at the price over the last week, while alarm bells are ringing on the one year chart. "Oh it'll be alright, Rafa lost at Trafford too, it's not so bad," they say.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Top post. I agree 100%. I don't see any progression on last year. Roy is leaving space out wide and packing the middle. It allowed the mancs to fire in some precision crossed that we couldn't deal with today.

Going forward, I don't see any flair, no element of surprise like we had with Luis or Benayoun. Roy's tactics with Torres are like asking a racehorse to pull a cart. Would love to be optimistic but can't see anything to be optimistic about.