Topic: Election Night in Canada

[JP-65]

Trudeau is to Canada is what Bill Shankly is to Liverpool

Multiculturalism, bilingualism, the constitution, our Charter, he made Canada Canada!  Was like Vimy Ridge all over again!

What utter crap.

[Scarlet`]

So you don't enjoy your political freedoms and charter rights? 

[Rigden]

Interesting article about the inexperience of and young age of some of the new quebecois ndp MPs.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/decision-canada/Mulcair+coach/4721043/story.html

[Rigden]

Another interesting article

Canadians cheated again by voting system says Fair Vote Canada
For immediate release
May 3, 2011

Canada’s national citizens’ movement for voting reform has released analysis of Tuesday’s federal election results showing that the outcome does not accurately reflect the way Canadians voted.

“The Conservative party increased their vote percentage by less than two points,” says Fair Vote Canada (FVC) President Bronwen Bruch, “but this allowed them to win 24 more seats than in 2008, when they were already over-represented. Stephen Harper calls this a ‘decisive endorsement’, but we call it a rip-off.”

At the time of writing, these were the actual seats won and leading for each party:

CON 167, NDP 102, LIB 34, BQ 4, GREEN 1

If the seats were won in proportion to the votes that were cast, the numbers would look like this:

CON 122, NDP 95, LIB 59, BQ 19, GREEN 13

According to these results, the Conservatives have won 54.22% of the seats with only 39.62% of the votes, one of the least legitimate majorities in Canadian history.

“This is a classic phony majority,” said Bruch, “and leaves us with a government that is completely unaccountable to Parliament. As long as they maintain rigid party discipline, nothing bad can happen to them for four years.”

The FVC analysis shows that the NDP, historically under-represented by Canada’s winner-take-all voting system, is now over-represented by seven seats, thanks to the “orange wave” that vaulted them into second place.

The Liberal Party, on the other hand, traditionally over-represented to the degree that they were regarded as Canada’s “natural governing party”, is now the chief victim of the voting system. While their vote percentage fell by less than 8%, they lost more than half their seats.

The Bloc Québècois, which has always previously been over-represented because their votes are concentrated in one region, has been decimated. Although their vote percentage has collapsed, they should still be entitled to 19 seats, but they are winning or leading in only four seats.

The Green Party is ecstatic to have finally won a single seat, but they actually received enough votes across the country to win 13 seats.

“Across the country,” added Fair Vote Canada Executive Director Wayne Smith, “vote splits between the Liberals and NDP allowed the Conservatives to steal seats. Once again, our antiquated voting system has given us the wrong government, a government that most of us voted against.

“It is truly time to change our voting system. If we want politics to be different, we need a vote that makes a difference.”

-30-

Contact:
Wayne Smith
Executive Director
416-407-7009
Wayne.Smith@FairVote.Ca

http://www.fairvote.ca/en/Canadians-cheated-again-by-voting-system

[Something Awful]

Same old argument. Our side didn't win so change the system. Proportional representation in Canada would be a huge shit show.

[Scarlet`]

Whatever, let's see how it goes first.  If the Conservatives screw up the country again a la Diefenbaker or Mulroney, you know who to turn to

[xavidub]

Same old argument. Our side didn't win so change the system. Proportional representation in Canada would be a huge shit show.

Why so?

[Canada Loves Anfield]

Same old argument. Our side didn't win so change the system. Proportional representation in Canada would be a huge shit show.

Bullshit. I wouldn't want the AV system that the English referendum is about but FPTP is outdated and we need to add a small sort of PR system to our electoral system. Even something like 25 percent of the seats being given via PR would not make me vote for the lesser of two evils as we always do. I want to vote Green everytime but I'm forced to pick a Lib or NDP in order to strategically vote against the Tories. I'd rather vote for who I wanted. You could see before that a guy in Calgary wouldn't vote cause there was no way a Tory would lose - he makes a good point.

But nice try there bud

[rafathegaffa83]

Interesting article about the inexperience of and young age of some of the new quebecois ndp MPs.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/decision-canada/Mulcair+coach/4721043/story.html

A really interesting read and I'm surprised the media haven't yet tried to tackle some of its perplexing entities, such as why Francophone Quebecers turned against the Bloc in droves in favour of exceptionally young and often unilingual Anglophones who have little historical relationship to Quebec's language and customs. It could be that in Montreal-born Layton, many Quebecers saw somebody they saw as the best option for them to reject the Conservatives and decided that a vote for the NDP was a vote for Layton, rather than their respective riding candidates.

 It also turns on its head most of what the Bloc has been saying for years, especially since I remember reading in the run-up to the election that many young Quebecers are both bilingual and more focused on living in a multicultural society, rather than being focused on French.

I wouldn't want the AV system that the English referendum is about but FPTP is outdated and we need to add a small sort of PR system to our electoral system.

I think so too. I think the the FPTP has very 19th century origins, which probably helped when voting privileges were limited and the Conservatives or the Liberals were the only two parties with the resources to put forth a strong political campaign. Back then voters needed an individual sent to represent their district to compensate for factors such as distance and rudimentary communication technologies. Contemporary Canada is obviously much more interconnected and sophisticated in terms of communication and transporation networks.

Adding some PR would beneficial in having more voices heard. It could even be limited to a notion of having as you have said 25% of the seats and that parties must receive at least 2% of the national vote in order to be considered, which based on the results of the 2011 election would include parties likes The Greens, but would exclude fringe and radical parties such as the satirical Rhinoceros Party, the Western separatist Western Block and the biblical Christian Heritage.

[jerseyhoya]

I voted this morning for my 22 year old NDP MP in St Pauls (Toronto).

NDP deputy leader doubts bin Laden photos exist

Week long moratorium for mocking anyone else's political party for you

[dotmotion]

Cool, never knew there was a Canadian election thread. I turned 18 last year and this was my first election so I am still fairly new to this. I consider myself center right (more center than right). I liked the Chretien and Martin Liberal government in the early 2000s and late 1990s and thought I was going to vote Liberals for a long time.  In the end, I have to admit I voted for my Tory candidate mainly because I knew the Liberals had no chance at all in my riding and I just don't see myself ever voting in a leftist party. However if we had a FPV type of system I would have placed NDP 2nd. That is how poorly the Liberals did even in my eyes. The riding I live in also had a factor in my vote. I live in the Lower Mainland, BC, where my Tory candidate wins by 20% every election and is a cabinet member who the media claims is a rising star in parliament. So he just seemed like the most logical choice for me when it came to preference.

I'm just interested now in what happens to the Liberals now. I really hope they don't merge because I like the option of having a center party when the Conservatives have a leader like Steven Harper... (who I dislike) I also hope they don't end up going left by picking Bob Rae or Justin Trudeau (#cringe). From what I heard they seem to want someone young and charismatic so Justin Trudeau might just have to step up. Although I have been reading up on Dominic LeBlanc and he seems like a strong candidate that wants to unite the center with good charisma.


Also BC Politics is up. In no other province does the person who helped a disgraced premier create an alibi for accepting bribes and accused by his own party members by falsifying endorsement forms get chosen by his party to run for premier. 

[SMD]

How the fuck does it make sense to vote for the one you think is going to win?

I just don't understand how so many hippies living in BC end up losing out to all the weirdo conservatives, especially on the island.

[JP-65]

How the fuck does it make sense to vote for the one you think is going to win?

I just don't understand how so many hippies living in BC end up losing out to all the weirdo conservatives, especially on the island.

You forgot the gay vote, it's big out there!

[SMD]

You forgot the gay vote, it's big out there!

Obviously not big enough *insert appropriate euphemism here*

[Rigden]

In the end, I have to admit I voted for my Tory candidate mainly because I knew the Liberals had no chance at all in my riding

I just don't understand this logic.

[theCanadian]

Wtf, why didn't I notice this thread before?

Jerseyhoya, out of curiosity, why are you interested?

1. I won a $10 bet that I made at the start of the campaign that Harper would get his majority. The NDP surge only helped him really and at the beginning of the day on election day it was very predictable based on the weekend polls. Huge numbers in Ontario with vote splitting on the left was predictable. I was somewhat surprised at how much Harper penetrated into Toronto though, and expected it to be a narrower majority (by 2 or 3 seats).

2. My riding in Ottawa is a landslide NDP riding every election for Paul Dewar and so I cast my ballot for the Green party, whose platform and leader I'm the most impressed by. Traditionally, I'm more-or-less a Liberal party supporter (except for on their environmental record and their record of supporting Israel).

3. The Conservatives will not screw up the country, but they won't improve it and are unlikely to ever offer imaginative policy. They'll govern fairly close to the center. It's pretty obvious that Harper intends to make his party the dominant one in Canada for the next few decades, and he will likely accomplish that. To do so, he needs to tread carefully and govern as a centrist (which is not what he wants to do, deep down). If he really wants to get ahead of the curve on where politics is going, he should start in on some progressive environmental policy this term. The environment will only continue to increase over time as a priority for voters, and he will impress them in future elections if he can point back to progress his government has made.

4. In an act of petty political gamesmanship, the Conservatives will soon end the per-vote subsidy for political parties that receive more than a 2% share of the popular vote. That will crush the opposition parties and particularly the Liberals.

5. Barring some sort of unforeseen disaster (economic, environmental, etc.), the Liberals are unlikely to form government in the next 10 years (similar for the NDP's hopes). This is particularly the case if they don't unite with the NDP, which would be extremely difficult. The next 2-3 years will be informative because by then the party will have settled the merger debate. The Liberals need to find their identity, because right now it's clearly been absorbed by the two other main parties.

6. Hurrah, the BQ are gone!

7. I can't wait to see that 19 year old dude in parliament. He seems really keen and experienced, for his age, so I think he'll be fine. If he gets re-elected next time he'll then have a guaranteed (huge) pension starting when he's 55.

[jerseyhoya]

Going for my phd in political science. I really like elections and different electoral systems and that sort of thing.

[theCanadian]

Why the fuck do you fuckers keep voting Harper in? He's a massive, massive knob.

The answer to that is really quite simple.

The vast majority of Canadians (and in fact citizens of each and every country) are simple minded, gullible, and lack critical thinking skills. I'd say this is somewhere in the range of 85%-90% of the populace. They also don't take the time to properly inform themselves about the issues. The end result is that they learn what the issues are from politicians during campaigns and so whichever party is the best at politics, wins.

Harper isn't a knob by the way; he's really quite clever. He's just not a moral person is all.

[theCanadian]

Going for my phd in political science. I really like elections and different electoral systems and that sort of thing.

I recommend picking up this weekend's edition of Macleans. There's essentially a novella within it, detailing lessons from this campaign. A very historically significant campaign as far as our country is concerned.

PS: I'm doing a phd also, but we don't have a thread on fish biology unfortunately.

[theCanadian]

Wouldn't agree with that.

It all just kind of fell into place for the conservatives and Harper is there to take the credit.

I completely disagree. They didn't just happen across the levels of support they've achieved. They built it slowly over time by having the most efficient and effective political machine in the country. And while governing, he's not allowed any huge gaffes to happen or tried to do anything too crazy to piss off the swing voters he's got. They built it by knowing that negative ads can be very effective. They built it by breaking down the country into segments and demographics and targeting each one "on the ground" in a series of individual campaigns, rather than running a real national campaign.

[jerseyhoya]

I recommend picking up this weekend's edition of Macleans. There's essentially a novella within it, detailing lessons from this campaign. A very historically significant campaign as far as our country is concerned.

PS: I'm doing a phd also, but we don't have a thread on fish biology unfortunately.

Thanks for the tip. I think I found it online (staring here). I'll read it tomorrow while procrastinating on writing final papers while telling myself that it's educational reading that I'm doing.

[theCanadian]

Thanks for the tip. I think I found it online (staring here). I'll read it tomorrow while procrastinating on writing final papers while telling myself that it's educational reading that I'm doing.

Also, this is a fantastic website.


One other point I forgot to make earlier. It's clear that Ontario and the West aligned themselves (for the first time in quite a while) to together provide majority power to a government. Harper got bitchslapped in Quebec this time around, even more so than usual. He could try to pander to Quebec during the next four years to try to win back some seats but I wonder if that may be at the risk of irritating his base or some of the swing voters in Ontario.

[jerseyhoya]

I disagree. It was rather the self-destruction of the Liberals than some sort of clever conservative tactics. Harper blatantly lied about the deficit (which would usually be reason enough not to get voted back in) but even then the Liberals were fucking up so hard that it became a bit of a non-issue. Add to that the worst stretch of leadership in the Liberal's HISTORY, an increase in NDP popularity helping to split the vote, and some sort of sentiment against the Bloc and the cards fell quite nicely for the conservatives and Harper was there smiling for the camera. I've met Harper and Anders. They are tools. Harper went to my University and completed probably the least recognized degree ever, and its widely known that he was a bit of an idiot during his time here too.

He managed to be prime minster for five years already. Tricked his main opposition into imploding and then won a majority. Pretty good for an unimpressive idiot.

[theCanadian]

I disagree. It was rather the self-destruction of the Liberals than some sort of clever conservative tactics. Harper blatantly lied about the deficit (which would usually be reason enough not to get voted back in) but even then the Liberals were fucking up so hard that it became a bit of a non-issue. Add to that the worst stretch of leadership in the Liberal's HISTORY, an increase in NDP popularity helping to split the vote, and some sort of sentiment against the Bloc and the cards fell quite nicely for the conservatives and Harper was there smiling for the camera. I've met Harper and Anders. They are tools. Harper went to my University and completed probably the least recognized degree ever, and its widely known that he was a bit of an idiot during his time here too.

Interesting to hear from someone who's met him.

I've spent a little bit of time talking to Conservative insiders a couple years back and hung out with Anders in his office on the hill for a couple hours.

I should retract my statement that I "completely" disagree. Of course you are correct that the Liberal brand has progressively declined, with declining popular vote in each successive election since 1993. I still think that Harper's team, if you will, have worked their assess of and played their cards right over the last few years. They've been quite good at garnering enthusiasm and support from simple-minded average Canadians outside of downtown cores. They've used the gun registry issue effectively to dominate rural areas. They bought votes with the imbecilic GST cut. They've used the fear of voters effectively and emphasized their (drooling-from-the-mouth) "tough-on-crime" bills they've promised to pass. They've run a tight ship, and the Liberals have been very poor indeed.

After two successive tries I hope the Liberals never again think to appoint a University professor as their leader. They also need to figure out what the point of their party is, if the Conservatives are going to encroach on the middle ground they used to occupy, while the NDP also move towards the center. They are currently in an existential crisis that has been brewing under the surface for some time. The party may simply remain a fringe party now permanently.

[jerseyhoya]

He really didn't do this.

Paul Martin clearly had no fucking clue where he even was
Dion couldn't even speak English
Iggy I'm pretty sure wasn't aware there even was an election.

Liberals lack leadership, they came off 3 consecutive majority's with JC then just imploded. It's not a coincidence. Its the fact their leaders are complete tools. That's not to say Stephen Harper is a great leader. He isn't he just has a lot of support which isn't too difficult given the nature of things.

Didn't the Liberals basically call the election?

I really don't know a whole heck of a lot about Harper, so I'm not going to argue with you about how good he is at his job or whether he qualifies as a genius or anything. I'm guessing if I was Canadian, I'd love the man dearly, but that's based off of a limited exposure to him.

Generally people don't win election and reelection and reelection again by accident. And even if he is taking advantage of the Liberal Party's leadership troubles, it says something that he is preventing the Conservatives from having these same issues. And even if you want to discount the first two as minority government, seems the people haven't exactly tired of him giving him a majority this time. And if you want to blame the voting system, that's fine, but their vote share has increased in each successive election under Harper's leadership of the party.

I dunno. I think people ought to be able to recognize political figures for being talented politicians even if you hate their guts and think they're awful at their jobs. I don't like Obama much as president, but as a politician he's a once in a generation talent. Obviously Harper's not on Obama's level as a communicator, but he seems to have solid instincts. Harper doesn't have to be an idiot or someone who has been simply lucky, he can just be a talented but profoundly wrong individual, who is completely off the mark with what government's role in Canadian society ought to be.

[theCanadian]

I think at the end of the day Liberal minded people will always look to the Liberals first which is why I can't see them as a fringe party long term. Once they get a strong leader in, the NDP hype will trail off and those voters will go back, same with those that opted for Conservative this election.

The consensus among Liberals in the post-election discussions and interviews is that they need to get away from this idea that just getting a new leader is going to solve their problems. What is clear is that they don’t have a large base anymore and simply waiting for it to come back to them when they get a decent leader isn’t going to work. The Liberals have had something fundamentally wrong with them for a long time – since Chretien’s first majority in 1993, their share of the popular vote has declined with each successive election. It’s not just a leadership issue, it’s a party identity issue.

I think a pivotal point is that the previous Liberal vote was spread to NDP and Conservative. I'm not sure what the Conservatives hope to do but unless if they really impress over these next 4 years (which I can't overly see because Canada is Canada and a conservative majority isn't in the best interests of the country despite what my fellow Calgarians want to think) then Liberals will slowly build up their popularity.

The thing is that the Conservatives aren’t promising to do a whole hell of a lot during the next 4 years. They’re not being too ambitious and they’re not going to do anything too crazy. The only area where they have potential to piss some people off is that they’ve promised to find $11B in inefficiencies in government spending that they can cut. Well, that will mean program cuts but we’re yet to find out where that’s going to come from. If it’s spread out among departments, it won’t cause too much harm to their popularity.

I think Canada and Liberal are synonymous and what the majority of people want at the end of the day is a COMPETENT Liberal party in power more than anything.

Making this assumption is the mistake the Liberals have made for the past few years. Let’s just present a solid alternative and point out how the other guys have fucked up. It’s not enough for them anymore, because things with the governing party aren’t going disastrously wrong as far as the voting public is concerned.

No one in Canada outside of Alberta loves him.

That’s completely untrue. He has a solid base of die-hard supporters from the Pacific to the Ottawa River. I know voters, including young voters, here in Ontario who absolutely love him.

I also don't like this trending belief that if you don't go out and vote then you are somehow in the wrong. I didn't have faith in any of the parties although if I had to vote I would have voted NDP. I think this time around there was an EXTRA amount of uneducated voters. That's not to say that the Liberals should have won, they had one of the worst campaigns in history, but I attribute the Conservative majority to vote split and a lot of people voting for something they didn't know a lot about.

Did you take a serious look at the Green party platform and watch some of Elizabeth May’s speeches and/or interviews?

You are in the wrong if you don’t vote. If everyone decided not to vote based on the fact that there isn’t a party that’s flawlessly suited to them, we would have a very weak democracy indeed. It’s about picking the best available option after you’ve informed yourself. It’s pretty amazing that you’re complaining about Harper if you didn’t go to the polls to register your dislike for him. Most justifications for not voting, including yours, are just shitty excuses for being lazy.

Good example of that the group who wanted to go out and be trendy so voted for NDP. The youth movement. Voting for NDP because we represent the new generation shit.

This is insightful analysis. You realize that they gained the vast majority of their seats in Quebec? That wasn’t the youth vote, that was adults switching from the Bloc to the NDP because the NDP are the only other socialist option. (The NDP are registered in the international association for socialist parties.)

The youth vote is hardly a factor in Canadian democracy. Turnout for the group 18-24 was about 37% in 2008; I haven’t seen what it is this time yet. Most young Canadians are lazy and ignorant.

[theCanadian]

In every election I've voted for a candidate that I knew was likely to (and did in fact) lose. Is that a wasted vote? It's doesn't take much effort to walk a few blocks and go to the polling station. I was in and out in 10 minutes. By voting for a party that doesn't win, you still register your support for that party to contribute to a true representation of the positions of the voting population. You also contribute $2/year to that party by voting for them. If you want, you can go further by donating more cash and volunteering (what I sometimes do).

[theCanadian]

PS: The Flames are fucked.

[Salamanda]

also, all them cute hippies out on the smaller islands voting in the first Green Party seat.

[theCanadian]

also, all them cute hippies out on the smaller islands voting in the first Green Party seat.

Good news for Canadian democracy.

[jerseyhoya]

Really been enjoying that Macleans piece. The last chapter gets posted in the morning.

[jerseyhoya]

NDP's Brosseau admits she's never been to riding, but excited to go soon

Has got to be one of the more bizarre post election stories I've ever read. How the fuck does someone like this win?

I'm not big on electoral reform type stuff, but if a big appeal of single member, plurality districts is having local, individual representation, this should be be exhibit A for the opposition.

[jerseyhoya]

Canada's cold new dawn

This is kind of what I was arguing against when I was going on my riff the other night. This article reads like the author chugged Drano before settling down to write.

[Alphaville]

After leading the NDP to the best result in their history, the official leader of the opposition, Jack Layton, died this morning of cancer, aged 61.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/08/22/layton-obituary.html

This news comes as a shock to me.  He didn't look good in his last few public appearances and he had taken time off to fight his disease but I still wasn't expecting this.  All things considered, he was my favourite federal party leader and he will be sorely missed.

RIP Jack

[rafathegaffa83]

RIP Jack Layton

This news comes as a shock to me.  He didn't look good in his last few public appearances and he had taken time off to fight his disease but I still wasn't expecting this.  All things considered, he was my favourite federal party leader and he will be sorely missed.

Same here. He looked somewhat fit when campaigning, but he looked awfully gaunt and frail in recent weeks. He had the persona of a charming uncle. Clearly the most approachable of all the Federal party leaders. He will be missed.

[Seebab]

RIP Mr Layton

[Canada Loves Anfield]

Terrible news - great man. RIP Jack

[downtown]

Just woke up and read the news. Gutted

R.I.P Mr Layton

[jerseyhoya]

Jack Layton's Last Letter to Canadians

RIP

[Alphaville]

Jack Layton's Last Letter to Canadians

RIP

Are you fucking kidding me?