Author Topic: Belief  (Read 12388 times)

Offline U13

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Re: Belief
« Reply #80 on: November 16, 2011, 09:22:37 pm »
Well it's got me baffled  how can anyone support something they don't believe in, if support and belief are not linked what is?

If you support a political party you believe in them, you support them, if you support a religion or charity you believe in it.

You can say I don't trust this team to be as good as I would hope for,  but surely you must believe that they will put that right in the near future otherwise how can you support them, that would be a futile gesture almost like living a lie to me. However I guess we are all not the same!

That's actually a ridiculous way of putting it, Liverpool not performing as well as I would hope doesn't and never will deter me from supporting them.

I remain hopeful we will do well but that doesn't translate into belief that we will for me.


Offline Gerrard[LFC]

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Re: Belief
« Reply #81 on: November 16, 2011, 09:27:56 pm »
It's either on or it's off. There is no middle ground here.
what a quote! spot on. We had the most chance of any team in pl for goal scoring chances. and since we fail some games our head drop and let in silly goals but in time I am sure it can only get better. Suarez banged in 4 which were much harder then the chances that we provided, he seemed to find his shooting boots. Downing played great assists and could have scored couple himself. I think it is only matter of time before players understand each other. We are creating chances which is important and we are usually dominating teams for the majoroty of the game. Carroll digs deep and Gerrard come back and show more leadership in attack then we have only good things to come. Just one thing that could go wrong is Suarez issue, nothing is certain yet but if it drags on and on it wont be good for us. rental boys here we come!
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Belief
« Reply #82 on: November 16, 2011, 09:49:18 pm »
That's actually a ridiculous way of putting it, Liverpool not performing as well as I would hope doesn't and never will deter me from supporting them.

I remain hopeful we will do well but that doesn't translate into belief that we will for me.



no thats my way of putting it maybe not yours but it isn't ridiculous mate,just different to you, in Shankly's bleak years still believed in the team and club, even during Souness's years the same, because you have to believe that the next game will be better surely.
 You say (I think) you go in hope rather than belief so what makes you hope then, is it perhaps a belief that this time we will get it right?

As for I will always support them even if i don't believe in them, how would you do this? Serious question because i don't understand how anyone can!

  For me and maybe not you it is all or nothing I leave the appraising to the neutrals myself, in the end though we cannot all be the same and  we all support in different ways!
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Belief
« Reply #83 on: November 16, 2011, 10:24:43 pm »
well its been in my blood for over 50 years and I have seen worse times than this, its not as if we won trophies all the time you know just seems like it to some,
 but if I didn't believe in the club or the team will eventually get it right, then what would I believe in, part of supporting is surely having the belief that we will win on Sunday and not concede against Fulham, support is not ruled by your head it comes from your heart, and if you haven't got the heart for it then that must leave a great void surely? Nobody said support and belief had to be rational you know!

Absolutely spot on mate.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline jaffod

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Re: Belief
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2011, 11:11:45 pm »
Lad you're right - I've jumped to conclusions based on reading your posts - so I've re-read them -  like you say there all I've got to go on .

Can you tell me what you mean by the bit in bold?

What impression do you think I should have of you based on that
- do you think I should have  a picture of some lad singing his lungs out in block 305 or some dick sitting on his hands in the main stand or even worse some tosser standing up waving his arms like that knob from Newcastle shouting 'you dont know what your doing' at Allardyce?

No problem with you having an opinion - I think a killer instinct is lacking myself that'll either come or it wont -thats not what this is about though - its what you do with that opinion that matters - you tell me you get behind the lads regardless of what you believe, then we dont have a problem - you tell me you'll only show support when they deliver and what reaction do you expect, 20 years loyal service or not?


Not sure what you don't understand about that first bit, I'd say it was pretty clear to be honest. Maybe I didn't word it as well as I could have and instead of saying 'I'd show more belief' I should have said 'I'd feel more belief'. I don't know. But the sentiment remains the same, whenever we start sitting back and allowing inferior teams to attack us there is an air of inevitability about it - I don't think it comes as any surprise to anybody when we concede. We just seem totally unable to absorb any amount of concerted pressure and I find it pretty hard to 'believe' we're going to grind out a result when that's the case.
 And I don't know what impression you should have of me based on that. None of the 3 descriptions you use fit to be honest. I'd probably describe myself as being like a fucking nervous wreck constantly looking at the clock but I certainly don't sit there hurling abuse at the players, I still try to offer whatever encouragement I can.
 As for the 2nd bit, where have I once stated I'll only show support when the team delivers? I defy you to show me.
Someone made a reference to the Souness years and I was thinking about that myself. Looking back I find it hard to think that many people felt genuine belief in that team, it just doesn't add up. And yet those same people would still go the game and get behind the team regardless. And it's the same today, not just with Liverpool but with the fans of most clubs you could care to name. Do fans of Division 1 and 2 teams genuinely believe their team will beat Man U at OT or Chelsea at SB when they are drawn together in the cup? Almost certainly not but that wont stop them travelling there in their thousands and singing their hearts out for 90 minutes. And anyone who says "I'd take a point from this one" before a difficult game - are they to be condemned as being unfit to follow their team as well? Because we've all said it at some stage.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Belief
« Reply #85 on: November 16, 2011, 11:16:17 pm »
Not sure what you don't understand about that first bit, I'd say it was pretty clear to be honest. Maybe I didn't word it as well as I could have and instead of saying 'I'd show more belief' I should have said 'I'd feel more belief'. I don't know. But the sentiment remains the same, whenever we start sitting back and allowing inferior teams to attack us there is an air of inevitability about it - I don't think it comes as any surprise to anybody when we concede. We just seem totally unable to absorb any amount of concerted pressure and I find it pretty hard to 'believe' we're going to grind out a result when that's the case.
 And I don't know what impression you should have of me based on that. None of the 3 descriptions you use fit to be honest. I'd probably describe myself as being like a fucking nervous wreck constantly looking at the clock but I certainly don't sit there hurling abuse at the players, I still try to offer whatever encouragement I can.
 As for the 2nd bit, where have I once stated I'll only show support when the team delivers? I defy you to show me.
Someone made a reference to the Souness years and I was thinking about that myself. Looking back I find it hard to think that many people felt genuine belief in that team, it just doesn't add up. And yet those same people would still go the game and get behind the team regardless. And it's the same today, not just with Liverpool but with the fans of most clubs you could care to name. Do fans of Division 1 and 2 teams genuinely believe their team will beat Man U at OT or Chelsea at SB when they are drawn together in the cup? Almost certainly not but that wont stop them travelling there in their thousands and singing their hearts out for 90 minutes. And anyone who says "I'd take a point from this one" before a difficult game - are they to be condemned as being unfit to follow their team as well? Because we've all said it at some stage.

Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline jaffod

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Re: Belief
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2011, 11:19:31 pm »


Of course belief is essential. Jaffod, would you agree that if those directly responsible for our performances (i.e Kenny, the players and the backroom staff) don't believe we can achieve success then we have absolutely no chance of success?

I'm not sure that question can be answered to be honest. They could all sit there cacking themselves before every match and then go out and wipe the floor with teams.
 I don't believe I'll ever win the lottery but I could buy the winning ticket on Saturday the same as anybody else.
 What I will say though is that they are the ones in the position to determine whether we are successful or not and obviously the more belief they have in themselves the better.

Offline jaffod

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Re: Belief
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2011, 11:21:29 pm »


I must admit that made me laugh Andy but I'm not sure I really get it?

Offline The Red artist.

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Re: Belief
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2011, 11:54:33 pm »
Here lies the problem with SOME auld arses around your age.
You have seen us win 13 League titles, 11 Euro cups, 14 Fa/League cups, 15 Charity shields and even our second 11 picked up 17 titles in your lifetime.
You are so used to success, you struggle to come to terms with a blank season.
At 50 you have seen Liverpool win 53 trophies.
I would suggest that you ask yourself (before being asked) What type of fan am I ?

We all question our faith at times, but someone your age should be spreading the word not questioning your beliefs. There are young fans around today who would give their hind teeth to have seen what you've seen.

Go sit in a dark room and do some serious thinking about your future as a Supporter of such a successful club. Only embarassment can prevail.
If you do end up embarassed / ashamed I would suggest
15 Our Fathers and 30 Hail Mary's.

Spot on lad.
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Offline Vulmea

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Re: Belief
« Reply #89 on: November 17, 2011, 01:04:04 am »
I'll start showing a bit of belief when we can withstand more than 5 minutes pressure without conceding.
 Or when the midfield isn't being walked through as if it's not there. Or when we start playing to the strengths of a bloke we spent £35 million on.
 

you can't see how if  'show belief'  is read as 'show support'  your post gets interpreted as only supporting the team when its winning and successful?

I can honestly say I  believe we can win any game we play, I dont always think we will but I believe we could, every single game. That does not mean I'm not happy to get a draw or acknowledge some teams have better players or squads but I believe LFC can win any game.


The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline jaffod

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Re: Belief
« Reply #90 on: November 17, 2011, 06:17:28 am »
you can't see how if  'show belief'  is read as 'show support'  your post gets interpreted as only supporting the team when its winning and successful?


No, I can't actually, seeing as they are completely different words with completely different meanings.

I've never heard anyone say "I go to the match to believe in my team" or "I don't think he had any support he was going to score there", so why would you misinterpret what I wrote in the same way?
 

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Belief
« Reply #91 on: November 17, 2011, 07:58:12 am »
I must admit that made me laugh Andy but I'm not sure I really get it?

#voteAndy
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Belief
« Reply #92 on: November 17, 2011, 09:41:04 am »
No, I can't actually, seeing as they are completely different words with completely different meanings.

I've never heard anyone say "I go to the match to believe in my team" or "I don't think he had any support he was going to score there", so why would you misinterpret what I wrote in the same way?
 

How do you 'show belief ' then?
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline scared_person

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Re: Belief
« Reply #93 on: November 17, 2011, 09:44:00 am »
I'm not sure that question can be answered to be honest. They could all sit there cacking themselves before every match and then go out and wipe the floor with teams.
 I don't believe I'll ever win the lottery but I could buy the winning ticket on Saturday the same as anybody else.
 What I will say though is that they are the ones in the position to determine whether we are successful or not and obviously the more belief they have in themselves the better.

You're equating a football match with a lottery? Seriously if you can't see the difference between a game of chance and a game of football then we're having a stupid conversation.

Read up on any of the great managers and the one thing their teams all have in common is heaps and heaps of belief. Have you never read of the things Bill Shankly would do and say!? It was designed to make his team feel massive and the opposition tiny. I can assure you his teams weren't shitting it before the game!

I just don't think you can argue that confidence and belief isn't integral to a successful football team. Of course the most confident team can still lose, but a team with no confidence has no chance to win.

To my mind the confidence of the team is the one thing that we as supporters can affect. We can do this by showing faith and vocally supporting the team at the ground. None of this worrying about the opposition or moaning at misplaced passes just support, support, support.

Offline John C

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Re: Belief
« Reply #94 on: November 17, 2011, 10:08:51 am »
Liverpool FC is tangible proof that you can win any game, most people will look ahead to a game and believe we can win - we've done it time and time again But belief doesn't need to prevail over commonsense or jaffods perception of the current position the club is in. And by current he seems to mean this generation and this season. I'll stop putting words on ink on his behalf now because I think people are looking at words too closely and he can stick up for himself.

Offline jaffod

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Re: Belief
« Reply #95 on: November 17, 2011, 09:04:01 pm »
How do you 'show belief ' then?

Fucking hell, I've already said I would have been better saying 'feel' instead of 'show' but you're like a dog with a bone. One word out of context, get over it.


You're equating a football match with a lottery? Seriously if you can't see the difference between a game of chance and a game of football then we're having a stupid conversation.

Read up on any of the great managers and the one thing their teams all have in common is heaps and heaps of belief. Have you never read of the things Bill Shankly would do and say!? It was designed to make his team feel massive and the opposition tiny. I can assure you his teams weren't shitting it before the game!

I just don't think you can argue that confidence and belief isn't integral to a successful football team. Of course the most confident team can still lose, but a team with no confidence has no chance to win.

To my mind the confidence of the team is the one thing that we as supporters can affect. We can do this by showing faith and vocally supporting the team at the ground. None of this worrying about the opposition or moaning at misplaced passes just support, support, support.


I can assure you there's more chance of the team hearing my support than sensing my anxiety.

And I don't need a history lesson on Bill Shankly either thank you very much, I grew up watching his team.


Offline Vulmea

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Re: Belief
« Reply #96 on: November 17, 2011, 11:58:20 pm »
Fucking hell, I've already said I would have been better saying 'feel' instead of 'show' but you're like a dog with a bone. One word out of context, get over it.


"Maybe I didn't word it as well as I could have and instead of saying 'I'd show more belief' I should have said 'I'd feel more belief'. I don't know."

thats you saying it would have been better is it? Like gettin friggin blood out of a stone. Must have bloody killed you that.

now you sure you didn't mean you do believe and not that you dont -  thats not even a word just two letters?
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline jaffod

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Re: Belief
« Reply #97 on: November 18, 2011, 12:08:54 am »
"Maybe I didn't word it as well as I could have and instead of saying 'I'd show more belief' I should have said 'I'd feel more belief'. I don't know."

thats you saying it would have been better is it? Like gettin friggin blood out of a stone. Must have bloody killed you that.

now you sure you didn't mean you do believe and not that you dont -  thats not even a word just two letters?



One word out of context, get over it.



Offline 1021

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Re: Belief
« Reply #98 on: November 18, 2011, 12:18:04 am »
Fucking hell, that row went on for bloody days. For what it is worth Jaffod I understood where you were coming from all along, I have similar misgivings about Liverpool heading into the season and I haven't actually existed at a point in which Liverpool FC were league champions so I am very much used to rebuilding without anything coming of it.

And as you said it doesn't mean you aren't supporting them, it just means that before the match you don't think 'we are going to bloody do these' like Liverpool supporters must have felt in the 70's and 80's week in week out and how United fans must have felt in the last twenty years because you have seen it time and again, on occasion week on week, Liverpool side capable of wnning but faltering, and summer on summer people thinking this is it, and it coming to nothing.

I wasn't enthralled by the signings in the summer, Enrique was a great singing, and I was excited about the prospects of Henderson and Coates, but I had serious misgivings about Adam and Downing. I thought we would be challenging for forth but at the start of the season and I believe in the predictions on here I had us down for fifth place finish in the end.

It isn't lack of faith in Kenny or in the signings or being a poor supporter it is just not building expectations and yes getting a bit of a sinking feeling when we are 1-0 up with 85 minutes gone. It is just a habit the team will have to kick until we get tha confidence back as collective.
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline jaffod

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Re: Belief
« Reply #99 on: November 18, 2011, 06:19:57 am »
Liverpool FC is tangible proof that you can win any game, most people will look ahead to a game and believe we can win - we've done it time and time again But belief doesn't need to prevail over commonsense or jaffods perception of the current position the club is in. And by current he seems to mean this generation and this season. I'll stop putting words on ink on his behalf now because I think people are looking at words too closely and he can stick up for himself.
Fucking hell, that row went on for bloody days. For what it is worth Jaffod I understood where you were coming from all along, I have similar misgivings about Liverpool heading into the season and I haven't actually existed at a point in which Liverpool FC were league champions so I am very much used to rebuilding without anything coming of it.

And as you said it doesn't mean you aren't supporting them, it just means that before the match you don't think 'we are going to bloody do these' like Liverpool supporters must have felt in the 70's and 80's week in week out and how United fans must have felt in the last twenty years because you have seen it time and again, on occasion week on week, Liverpool side capable of wnning but faltering, and summer on summer people thinking this is it, and it coming to nothing.

I wasn't enthralled by the signings in the summer, Enrique was a great singing, and I was excited about the prospects of Henderson and Coates, but I had serious misgivings about Adam and Downing. I thought we would be challenging for forth but at the start of the season and I believe in the predictions on here I had us down for fifth place finish in the end.

It isn't lack of faith in Kenny or in the signings or being a poor supporter it is just not building expectations and yes getting a bit of a sinking feeling when we are 1-0 up with 85 minutes gone. It is just a habit the team will have to kick until we get tha confidence back as collective.


That's not good enough though men, it makes you unworthy.

Anyway, I'm off to the Chelsea thread to predict a 6-0 drubbing, Suarez will get 'em all.....

Offline lfc_bhoy

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Re: Belief
« Reply #100 on: November 18, 2011, 06:49:31 am »
Missing chances isn't the sign of a failing team, slumping midfield dominance isn't the tell-tale characteristic of a Scottish washup, a permanently tired Brazilian, and an inept young Englishman.  Hitting the bar, conceding one goal against teams that don't deserve it, having attacking movements brake down due to one misplaced pass, and a quality winger not being able to perfectly time crosses, doesn't not a bad team make.  What it makes is a team, similar to the one in 07/08, that needs nothing but tweaking, some TLC, and marquee wins that will tell the squad they are what we all know they can be.  Belief, central to all this, and perhaps a bit of faith from all parties will translate to, in my opinion, one of our better all around squads of our modern era.  Henderson has shown a quality lacking in almost all English footballers, technicality, Adam, a quality that exists in not a single Scottish footballer, natural talent.  Lucas is the worlds best midfielder in training, Kuyt is a goddamn Greek myth, think Marathon, Skrtel is Vidic's quiet younger brother, Agger is Beckenbaur's bastard child, Enrique is a tan Finnan, Johnson is a defensive Barnes.  Suarez isn't Messi, because Messi doesn't have enough gall to bite a git if he's acting up, and Carroll is Ian Rush and Andre the Giant's Frankensteinian twin, and Gerrard isn't hurt he's just waiting.  Objective reality obviously doesn't dictate any of this, I do, you do, and more importantly Kenny Dalglish does, so sit back, be patient, and realize that we need some blind belief as much as this squad does.
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