Topic: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.

[Hinesy]

About this time every season, Martin Skrtel decides to be munificent and donate goals to the opposition. Manchester City last year, Southampton this year.

A frustrating afternoon where several things didn't click.

For me, Gerrard looked tired apart from his free kicks, the defence seemed oddly set up at the start and there was no real fluency up front.

We will win other games and lose other games, but between last Sunday and this Sunday a lot of confidence has been lost.

Why?
Tiredness? Tactics? Or just a bad day at that massive noisy office?

[thegoodfella]

It felt as if the manager decided to remodel the entire kitchen just to make an omelette. I'm sure the rest of you will point it out as well, but the lineup wasn't half the problem, I just couldn't understand the constant chop and change throughout the match. Henderson started sitting deeper to get the ball and pass it on, then he moves to left of the midfield, then he is forward behind the striker, then he is a right back, poor lad must be dizzy now. The defensive lineup was confused and lost as if they were dropped off in the Gobi desert without a compass without an easy pass out. The midfield didn't do them any favours either but they had their own problems, Lucas is sitting next to Gerrard, then Gerrard is the deepest of the three midfielders, then he is ahead of them, eventually Lucas is asking the bench where he needs to be around 75 minute mark. And the strikers? Swapping wings and positions every five minutes for no apparent reason.

The indecisiveness and uncertainty started from the bench with the lineup, crept on to the defence and then moved all of the pitch. I decided to make a few observations after the first quarter and the first thing that popped up was Mignolet not gathering the ball at 17th minute and pass the ball quickly when he had the time and opportunity to do so, it would've saved him the worry of the opposing forwards trying to close down the defenders for one. He's a top shot stopper, there's no doubt about that one, but his decision making with spreading the ball from back was dodgy, evidenced by the number of times he sprayed the ball to Henderson and I don't think Henderson won a single one of the duel and was eventually moved to the left side of the midfield.

Counters was the only way we were going to get a goal, and Aspas's pass at 30th minute was pretty good and probably should've been controlled better. And it seems that Iago will be the whipping boy of the season when he shouldn't be. He did as well as the other two strikers did even though they were being swapped here and there through out the match. And Sterling not being able to resolve the issue explains it all.

And how important is Johnson to the team? Fuck me the midfield duo of Lucas and Gerrard couldn't get the ball out to save their lives half of the time. Glen's the unsung hero of our passing game, an easy pass out and forward and is almost always available to take a pass.

Southampton on the other hand were clear and simple in their game plan, close down Mignolet and the defenders, force a mistake and go for the kill. We just let them do that.

PS: Mauricio Pochettino looks like the kinda guy your parents would approve of if he dropped by, looked a gentleman.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Bad day at the office, but it's all on the manager. For once, I have to be negative about Rodgers in a game. Starting line-up was crazy - four central defenders is the stuff of Maradona legend - and there was never going to be any mobility in attack with Henderson on the right. Aspas over Alberto was just odd, given that we were going to be playing with two out and out wide players, so we needed someone to drop in who could sort out a final ball. Aspas would have been better as the centre forward and Sturridge on the bench, because he is not 100% fit (never mind the oft-heralded "match fitness"), with Alberto behind him. There was no logic to what Rodgers set the team out to do in this game, and it was a game of drudgery punctuated by a calamity of a set-piece, brought about by Skrtel's inability to keep a ball in play. Player for player, we beat Southampton in most match-ups, but when the manager messes up his starting line-up so spectacularly, then those match-ups count for nothing. Two central defenders in the fullback positions that require width, speed and stamina means we are losing those match-ups against natural wide players. An immobile central midfielder who is past his prime means we lose that match-up as the game goes on. A half-fit forward and a second striker who hasn't got to grips with the pace of the league means we are at best evens in the attacking third, and the only differential we had was Moses, and he didn't get enough of the ball. Southampton played well, but we let them play well. It's good that the loss came early in the season, because maybe now Rodgers will let the players back off the leash and play the football that is at least pleasing on the eye. We're still ahead of the curve in terms of making top four, but it will get increasingly difficult if Rodgers tinkers like today. He needs to show some balls and drop key players for their better counterparts, and back up his claims to having competition for every position. Suarez will help, but by how much depends on whether Rodgers can become decisive again or not. The worse thing that can happen is that he tries to keep everyone happy. If he does that, we'll lose all the momentum that appeared to be building over the last calendar year.

[Yorkykopite]

The defeat feels worse than the three points lost. I think part of the reason for this is because the previous three victories were, utimately, ground out and not the result of the free-flowing football we saw - episodically - last season. Towards the end Southampton achieved what we've singularly failed to achieve in all our previous games. They mastered the ball and pulled all of the strings in defence of a 1-0 lead. It was a sort of 'death by football'. At Anfield too. We, meanwhile, failed to keep any possession and therefore any pressure. For the last six or seven minutes the only way to goal appeared to be Kolo Toure's long diagonals to the far post. He never had to do that Arsenal! There are bound to be some serious questions asked.

The most serious is already being asked. Why would Rodgers begin with four centre backs on the pitch? Yes, Glen Johnson (probably our best player v Stoke and Man Utd) is injured. And Wisdom looks desperately short of confidence. But the manager's hand was not entirely forced. Dropping Enrique was his choice. Not playing Kelly and Flanagan, ditto. The result was deplorable. It meant the extremely nervy Martin Skrtel was playing again - no big surprise he fucked up when he did - and both Toure and (especially) Sakho looked clueless when they were asked to create on the flanks. For several weeks now we've heard desperate (or complacent) RAWKites wonder whether Sakho and Toure (and Ilori!) might be accomodated at right and left back. Today they found out how bad the idea is. I can see why it might appeal to the odd part-time football fan. Why it made any sense to Brendan beggars belief.

Aspas is beginning to annoy as well. I know he's cheap(ish) and that expectations therefore shouldn't be too unrealistic. I know he's trying too. But it's not happening for him at all, and nor does it look likely to. There's neither pace nor penetration there - nor any obvious 'sniffer' quality in the box. Bar the odd nice little flick there's really nothing in his game that excites the fan or makes you think 'Ah Aspas has got it...COME ON!' When he's played in the same team as the equally ordinary Jordan Hendeson Liverpool suddenly look to have a very blunt attack. Henderson perpetually wastes time and opportunities by miscontrolling the ball. And he just hates receiving the thing when he's closely marked. He's the sort of player I'd like to see coming on as a sub when we're two or three up and our opponents are leaving wide-open spaces at the back in search of a goal. Give him a packed pitch and an organised defence and he's....not as good as we need him to be. Neither Hendo nor Aspas would hold a regular spot, I think, in any other Premier League team. Joe Allen can't come back quick enough for me. Meanwhile is Alberto a better alternative than Henderson? We just haven't seen enough of him to make a case I suppose. I know this though. Suso is. I wonder if we'll regret sending him on loan - especially now Coutinho is out.

Then there's the Gerrard problem. He's been pretty good this season I think. But today he was wretched. I gave up counting the number of 50-50s he lost. These were contests that the old Stevie would have relished. On the one occasion near the end he did emerge with the ball - and with the Reds in a promising position to break - he badly overhit the resultant pass to Moses and found touch. Lucas is getting a bit of flak. But, christ, the boy was trying to do two jobs out there today. Sakho, for one, must wonder what all the 'Stevie-G' palaver is all about. He was not a man to pass to today. Not unless you wanted to put the team instantly on the back foot.

The good news? Mignolet's goalkeeping is out of this world on the evidence we've had so far. Sakho looked good at centre back. It didn't click for Sterling when he came on but his running was intelligent and quick and more match practice will surely see him emerge as a serious player for Liverpool this season.

The other good news is, of course, the imminent return of Suarez. He'll come back to a team that is, after all, still likely to be in the top four. But, christ, we need him on this evidence.

[Juan Loco]

I'll post a proper response at some point, but I just want say that there was a moment today where Martin Skrtel turned on the ball 3 times before passing it to the player who was open, and in space, when he received the ball. There was another moment in the first half where we played ourselves out of pressure. It was heart in mouth stuff and everyone, I'm sure, was having kittens as it was occurring, but we essentially 'got away with it', we played through Southamptons pressure - which is what we should have been doing, risky or not - only for Skrtel to decide not to play the simple pass into midfield, but to check and ultimately give away possession.


Look, it's far from the only thing that was wrong with todays performance, but c'mon. The manager didn't rate him and with good reason. He was brought back by necessity and he did well, but continuing to start him because he played well in isolation is surely undermining the managers bigger picture. I just sigh whenever I see him or Enrique in a Liverpool shirt. It's painful. They stick out for all the wrong reasons and unlike some others they don't really compensate for it.

[BazC]

It was the 2nd poor performance in a week, and the 2nd time we've been outplayed by teams we should really be well above (if we're aiming for CL football). I said before the Swansea game that it would be a bit of a test, to see how the players approached the game following a break and a better than expected start. I think it's safe to say, in terms of those performances, they couldn't have failed it any harder.

The big problem Rodgers is facing is how to nullify the opponent's counter attacks, whilst still giving our attack the best platform to score goals. Last season it was a bit too open, and our defenders weren't that great at mitigating against the CMs letting attacks through. But this season we've got 3 new players potentially in and around that central defence. Mignolet- a better shot stopper than Reina. And more importantly, Toure and Sakho. When we signed Toure, there was a Man City fan on here talking about how he was good at facing attacks when the defence had been exposed by the CM. And there was a video of him defending a 2 v 1 situation perfectly. That's what we (and other teams who play this expansive style of football) need from the defenders. Agger and Skrtel (and Carra before them) aren't those players. It's why Skrtel will look good when we're 2 banks of 4 and defending tighter. He'll mop things up and win those 2nd balls when the challenge comes to his area. But when he's got to make decisions to shepherd an attacker away from goal as he bares down on him over 20 yards? Na. Of course, they're not that great at set pieces either. In Sakho and Toure, we have that solidity in set pieces too.

So I think the big question at the moment is how Sakho fits into the team. I think his CB performance today was pretty much what I hoped he'd be. More of that, and he'll be first choice with Toure. And I'd expect them to be the wall in front of goal they'd need to be when Lucas and Gerrard make up the midfield.

On Lucas and Gerrard... I don't know what to make of them. Gerrard especially just looks so nonchalant at times. Like he has no interest or drive at certain points in the game. That leads to mistakes in a pretty crucial area of the pitch. Be it lose possession, not follow a runner from midfield, block a shot with enough conviction etc. We saw it lead to 2 goals in the week (although not blaming those fully on him - there were a few chances in each instance to defend the attack).

The thing is, they're not defensively that sound unless we've got a flat back 4 camped out in front of our box (and even then the opposition will get chances), but they're not producing anything in attack these days either. So what's the solution there? Bring Allen in for Gerrard?

Rodgers has mentioned how the way we've played this season has been tactical. And for me, that's obviously about countering the counter attacks... but there's also a question of if that was seen as a problem, then why didn't we go for a strong CM who would be comfortable playing in such a game plan, as well as the CBs? We spent £20m (ish) on Ilori, Aspas and Alberto. Could part of that been spent on bringing that CM in, because it doesn't look like those guys will be playing much football if everyone's fit and available?

There were positives today. I think Toure's attitude is top notch, and exactly what we needed to add to the team. He's a winner and I hope to see him starting every game he can if he carries on as he has so far this season. Sakho's performance as a CB was promising as mentioned above, even though there are still, naturally, questions about his role in the side at the moment. And Suarez - this was the last game of his ban, and if he's the player we knew from last season, he'll be chomping at the bit to come back. And he'll come straight in for Aspas you'd think. I'm looking forward to seeing him back in a red shirt after the general level of attacking football from us in the games this season. I don't think he'll disappoint.

[Cpt_Reina]

About this time every season, Martin Skrtel decides to be munificent and donate goals to the opposition. Manchester City last year, Southampton this year.

A frustrating afternoon where several things didn't click.

For me, Gerrard looked tired apart from his free kicks, the defence seemed oddly set up at the start and there was no real fluency up front.

We will win other games and lose other games, but between last Sunday and this Sunday a lot of confidence has been lost.

Why?
Tiredness? Tactics? Or just a bad day at that massive noisy office?

I know you've opened with Skrtel here, but it increasingly seems that all I do is complain about him. So im going to try to refrain from doing so for too long because this dead horse has been flogged so much already.

Skrtel is a player that just isnt that good. He's never been that good. And just because hes not that bad either, it doesnt make him the defender that we need.

He's not comfortable with the ball at his feet (thats why he likes defending deep, cos all he has to do is clear his lines), he's not comfortable with a high line (he back peddles better than an MP) and considering he looks the way he does he's a remarkably soft touch.

He's be an absolutely fine defender for many teams, many mid-table teams. Where he's allowed to defend on his 18 yard box, clear the ball in to touch and his mistakes wont cost his team a place in the top 4, cos theyre never challenging for one.

Those are the reasons he looked decent for Kenny's/Clarke's defence. People seem to forget that we finished 8th that season he won POTY, we were a mid table team. And it brought the best out of Skrtel. We played in to his hands.

The most frustrating thing about all of this is that Rodgers knows this, he knows Skrtel isnt the sort of defender who can play for him. And thats why we've brought in 3 CBs this summer. Illori/Kolo/Sakho these are the sort of defenders that can play for Rodgers. They can push the line high up the pitch, they dont panic every time they get the ball. And most importantly, two of them might possibly get to the level of a top 4 CB. The other, has proved he's already been good enough. Skrtel never has, and never will.

It leads me to wonder why the hell Rodgers even played him today. Picking him 'on form' is as stupid as it is cliched. Skrtel, more than anything, has form for not being a good fit and for being flighty. He proved to be just those things today. Again.

As much as Rodgers will claim his hand was forced, it wasnt. He could have played Kelly, he could have played Flanagan. He could even have played Henderson at RB and therefore moved Toure in to Skrtel place. He just got it plain wrong.

Hopefully Skrtel wont get too many more opportunities to prove a leopard doesnt change it's shit tattoos.

Skrtel wasnt the only thing Rodgers got wrong today though, not by a long way.

He seems insistent on playing Gerrard and Lucas together for every single minute of every single game he can. Even when its clear it''s not working. So often one of them needs pulling, through tiredness, poor performance, or simply to just change things around. So often, the change never comes. It's frustrating, and i cant really offer up a theory as to why he's operating in this fashion.

Dont get me started on Aspas.

Overall it was just the perfect storm today, bad decisions, poor performances, tiredness (Sturridge especially), and they all added up to make a big mess. It was as bad as it seemed. Excuses will be made however.

God knows what Utd will throw up, we need to rotate, and dont appear to have the squad to be able to do so right now. This is hardly an ideal scenario for Rodgers, normally he's freshen things up in the league cup, but its the mancs, so we need to go for it full tilt. Usually after 2 poor performances he'd want to wash them away with a really strong one, but its the mancs, and it's going to be very hard to do just that. And finally if we don't win not only have we lost 2 in a row (should have been 3) but we've lost 2 in a row (should have been 3) and been knocked out by David Moyes' Man Utd.

He'll earn his crust this week, one way or another.

[Aristotle]

One thing I'm really concerned about after this game is our weak mentality, which I was starting to believe we had gotten rid of or were in the process of doing. Because when the final whistle went I couldn't shake the feeling that it didn't really have to go this way. What's really bothering me is that I'm positive that if Sturridge would have (rightfully) gotten a penalty when their goalscorer Lovren brought him down and we converted we would've gone on to win the game. Or if Gerrard's free kick had gone in the same result would've ensued. But where were the goals coming from? Aspas who had never looked comfortable in that position for us. If he was in the starting line-up why was he not leading the line, with Sturridge off the bench? I think today was the inevitable stop for Sturridge. Rodgers has handled him wonderfully over the past ~10 months. As Yorky called it, he pulled a Shankly on him. He has him believing that only at 70% capacity he's the best striker in England. But now came the flipside to that. Sturridge, far from his best and far from tip-top condition, is better than the rest but why is he playing so much if he isn't fit? It isn't just hindsight, I said just the same pre-match. But surely Sturridge coming on at half-time or the final 30 could've made difference for us.

I don't quite understand why we played with 4 CBs, as everyone has said. Why not try playing 3 at the back. Henderson has played that wingback position before. Sterling did so too in the cup. Moses could've done it on either side. It could've given us the possibility of Toure breaking into midfield and helping us from getting overrun. I didn't really see where we were going to get goals. Sturridge drifted out wide to try and compensate for our complete lack of width. Sterling, as I mentioned on twitter, is struggling in much the same way he did last season. He has all the abilities to become a wonderful player. But when you've got a teenager, suffering through the inconsistency and mishaps that come with playing regularly as a young player.

I'm getting rather worried about this trend actually. We're relying on Sterling far too much when drawing or losing. A quick search through his substitute appearances last season reveals that Sterling came on 14 times as a substitute. In only 6 of those were we winning; Young Boys (where Sterling was waiting on the sidelines when Shelvey got us up by 1), Udinese, Young Boys (where we conceded near the end), Fulham (up by 3), Norwich (up by 4) and Villa (where Gerrard's pen won it).
This is a young player, in his teens and he's only been able to come into 3 winning league games. Like today with that chance he missed. If he had come on in a position where Rodgers could've just put an arm on his shoulder and said "no worries, son, there'll be other games".


AT the end of the day, it was one dodgy pen not given and a free kick saved that was all we mustured. It's weird. I'm still weirdly optimistic about this season. We've averaged 2 points PPG despite playing awfully at times. There's more promising signs than we saw for an awful long time. Suarez coming back I think will drag the rest of the team forward. Not just by playing because let's face it. Suarez is a fucking behemoth to knock out of the starting line-up and if the competition line that everyone is towing is real, then that means that Moses, Alberto and Aspas will have to step their game up a notch or find themselves picking splinters. We're still doing very well. We're in a much better position than last season and our squad is in a better position to deal with the hurdles we'll face.

But despite how shite we played today I feel a lot more positive than I wwas after our loss against them last season. We'll lose shit games and we'll win some good ones. It's the natural order. Maybe they're just our hoodoo team.

[Vulmea]

thought this was the round table not the post match thread

the comments are increasingly dictated by the result - Skrtel can play well and be shredded  , so its no surprise he gets both barrels today

Henderson isn't brazilian - a crime in the middle class pseudo intellectual punditry of today

Aspas hasn't scored a hatrick in his first five games he must be cack - opinions are already formed on him and whatever happens he'll be saddled with the prejudices of his first few games now

and why because we really aren't great - Rodgers has managed expectations very well, much better than Hodgson as he cuts the wage bill, the age and the achievement - I'm missing something about the philosophy or I haven't seen any evidence we have one

we are supposed to be a relentless machine.............one scared of its own shadow as it happens

we've carried luck every game and it finally ran out - Gerrard's stupid workload over the last couple of weeks was transparent - I despise Hodgson but Rodgers must have known his skipper was knackered - our inability to maintan tempo is glaring in every game - papered over when we win  - impossible to ignore when we dont - our lack of assetivness and ambition on the pitch match the over engineered thinking off it - we used to believe our place was top of the league now its  a burden and above our lowly status - where is the arrogance, the confidence, the wil to bleedin win - one game at  time  -

we have a multitude of right back options - Toure isn't one of them - 3 at the back would have made some sense - but for me thats just excuses - we aint strong enough - manager, players, fans unless we grow a pair we never will be.

Alberto didn't play great mid week despite his hatrick I thought all the first team squad players looked like they couldn't be bothered first half - disgraceful attitude - Flanagan excepted - so I wouldn't have picked any of them on that basis but then I wouldn't have let them go out with that attitude in the first place - I'm not sure why they weren't on it but our club doesn't feel right, we dont have the look of an ambitious side- they look as they have so many times over the last few years scared - unable to cope with the expectation and unprepared for success.

one game at  a time such an easy idea and so hard to do

[Azi]

I'm going to stick up for Skrtel here yes he made the initial mistake but their was still two phases of play which we should have dealt with better to have prevented the goal Toure should have prevented the corner Agger should not have been out muscled  so easily and then Gerrard should have cleared off the line but then again it was one of they days for Gerrard who for me at times looked half arsed i don't know what the solution is but the answer cant be Gerrard and Lucas in the middle for the rest of the season the more the match goes on the more our team looks like its about to collapse,

Our two best players today were Moses who seemed to be our  best bet for a goal with his direct runs and Mignolet who kept us in the game with that triple save apart from that the rest of the team was poor, I think Sturridge is now running on empty tank  and the return of Suarez will give him a well deserved break and might make him more effective coming off the bench just untill hes recharged his batteries and then we can let him free again

[Garstonite]

The warning signs were there against Swansea. Completely over-thought by Rodgers. I'm still at a loss as to what he was thinking to be totally honest and I'm a big, big fan of the fella. Even with rose-tinted specs on, I can't find any potential justification of that line-up.

Our midfield - or lack of it - is a massive, massive concern. Hopefully Allen can push his way back into the reckoning, because we need to break up the dynamic of Lucas and Gerrard which patently just does not work. They'd operate relatively well in a regressive Hodgson-style of football, sitting deep and keeping it simple, but they don't get about the pitch fast enough, move the ball quick enough or press the opposition high enough up the pitch to be effective in the system we play.

Maybe it's time to experiment Gerrard elsewhere. Right-back while Glen is out?

[BabuYagu]

Our midfield - or lack of it - is a massive, massive concern. Hopefully Allen can push his way back into the reckoning, because we need to break up the dynamic of Lucas and Gerrard which patently just does not work. They'd operate relatively well in a regressive Hodgson-style of football, sitting deep and keeping it simple, but they don't get about the pitch fast enough, move the ball quick enough or press the opposition high enough up the pitch to be effective in the system we play.

Maybe it's time to experiment Gerrard elsewhere. Right-back while Glen is out?

I agree with everyone that is saying the Gerrard\Lucas partnership isn´t working. The thing for me is the solution is to drop Gerrard and that just doesn´t seem like it will happen. We all saw how we coped without Lucas at the beginning of last season. To be honest at times I thought Allen was a one man midfield and it was no surprise he was most Liverpool fans best player (Suarez maybe excluded) up until about November.

So when we are saying we need to change something in the middle.... in actual fact we are saying we need to get Gerrard out of there. I can see Lucas-Henderson working well. I can see Lucas-Allen working even better. I can´t see any combination of Gerrard+1 working any better as Lucas is the best defensively of the bunch and certainly the best reader of the game and even he cannot cover for Gerrard's weaknesses in this area any longer. 

I´m not sure the solution either. I don´t know if he has the gastank to be a fullback in our system. He certainly lacks the explosiveness he once had when Rafa has him as a right winger. Could he be our #10 while Coutinho is out? 

Mignolet looks an awesome shot stoper and I am willing to take the slight hit in distribution at this time. Perhaps we can add that to his game as he is still very young for a keeper. Sakho looks as good at center back as he does shit at full back. Then again Enrique was emphatically worse when he came on. Did he retain possession once?

Sturridge needs to be dropped. We run the risk of playing him continuously and never getting more than 70% from him, or worse still playing him until he picks up a more serious injury by over compensating. Maybe Rodgers was thinking he just needed Sturridge to get us to the Man Utd game then Suarez can take over. Whatever he was thinking it was risking Sturridge and ultimately didn´t pay off. Would we really have looked any worse with Aspas up top and Sterling on the right?

I haven´t seen McLaughlin for a while. How far off 1st team is he really? The way Kelly is talked about by LFC Staff it is like he will break down if he plays full back again. Wisdom looks better than Flanagan but that isn´t really a complement. Can we have the marauding Macherano there with his woefully overhit crosses please?

[royhendo]

...

Nothing to add to that. Plus, I wonder if Dr Peters might devote some attention to the manager himself.

[Yorkykopite]

thought this was the round table not the post match thread

the comments are increasingly dictated by the result - Skrtel can play well and be shredded  , so its no surprise he gets both barrels today

Henderson isn't brazilian - a crime in the middle class pseudo intellectual punditry of today

Aspas hasn't scored a hatrick in his first five games he must be cack - opinions are already formed on him and whatever happens he'll be saddled with the prejudices of his first few games now

Nobody has said anything remotely like that.

[Cpt_Reina]

I'm going to stick up for Skrtel here yes he made the initial mistake but their was still two phases of play which we should have dealt with better to have prevented the goal Toure should have prevented the corner Agger should not have been out muscled  so easily and then Gerrard should have cleared off the line but then again it was one of they days for Gerrard who for me at times looked half arsed i don't know what the solution is but the answer cant be Gerrard and Lucas in the middle for the rest of the season the more the match goes on the more our team looks like its about to collapse,

It wasnt solely Skrtel's fault. But he takes the lions share.

It all stems from his inability to think quick enough when under even the slightest bit of pressure. You could virtually see the steam coming out of his ears when Toure roll that fairly routine pass to him.

Toure's mistake comes because he has to sprint back at full pelt to cover for Skrtel, who's ball watching as Soton take the throw quickly. So Toure does his job for him, sprints back to a CB position to intercept the throw. He starts about 10 yards behind Skrtel as the ball runs out of play, and he's back behind him to intercept the ball, good job too cos Martin wasnt getting there. That's what led to his miscontrol and conceding of the corner.

Agger losing his man at the corner is fair, he's not very good at it. It's a worry.

And Gerrard might have done a bit better on the line, hard to blame him though seeing as he wasnt actually 'on the post' he's taken up that position of his own volition, he was still in the process of moving there as the ball came to him. Like Toure I don't think he carries much, if any, blame. He was attempting to right someone else's wrong and never quite got there with enough time to do it properly.

It all stems from Skrtel though. Not once, but twice did he make a mistake leading to the goal. He fucked up with the ball and he was too slow of body and mind to react without it, needing Toure to bail him out. It happened quickly, but then things do on a football pitch. Toure reacted, Skrtel didnt. Its indicative of his time at the club.

Despite this I don't want to appear as to be completely placing this defeat at Skrtel door. Its Rodgers that should shoulder that. He got it badly wrong, in a number of ways.

(Not least in picking Skrtel).

[the 92A]

Three things struck me yesterday. First was playing four centrebacks was brave but wrong in practice. Sakho in particular found it very difficult, playing that role and it's not hard with hindsight to understand why, playing in a new league, having had no real games since May playing 'out of position' was always going to be a big ask. Toure while better still struggled apart from one or two notable runs but he looked like Agger on one of his runs rather than a Proper right back. Give me the failed winger rather than the failed centreback, everytime  .


Second  was related to the first but was worrying. Southampton had been told to pressurise us and not allow us to play out from the back, so in my mind that's going to leave gaps further up that can be exploited but we didn't. Mignolet is a fantastic shot stopper but his distribution needs serious work. Skertyl in particular doesn't like playing out from the back and is a weakness there to exploit. and as a team we didn't have the intelligence to vary our play to create doubt in the Southampton attack and we had rookie centrebacks wide.


Thirdly is the nervousness of the crowd. Paying ridiculous money in a time of austerity comes home to roost in games like this, the nervousness of the crowd soon turns to groans and downright hostility to playing it out from the back and every mistake. To the point that I was worried when someone like Luis Alberto came on that he was coming into a bear pit. It transmits itself, Enrique a few times started shrugging his shoulders at team mates as we stopped playing for each other and where more interested in not making mistakes.


We started off reasonably well, but as things didn't work our confidence lessened and Southamptons grew, to the point that half way through the second half we were disjointed and they started playing as a team that had it in the bag. After the whoppers had fucked off 15 minutes early and the tit next to me who had slagged Sakho as pure shit from the start had fucked off, presumably to book his phonecall to TalkSport, it was good to see those left give Southampton a clap from all sides of the ground they deserved it.



Attack wise Couthinio was a big miss, Sturridge made the wrong decision too many times, Aspas wasn't up to the burden of his role and provides no physical presence but still early days and I think he shows a bit of finese at times, Moses driftted out the second half, all in all, a bad day at the office, but still loads of potential with this team and I'm still optimistic.

[Hinesy]

Round Table Up.

[Alf Garnett!]

Down to earth with a bump and they don't come any bigger than a home defeat to opposition we should be winning comfortably against.

The result should shake up everybody at the club,that lacklustre performance had so many things to forget.

Team selection takes the first criticism,you can't play 2 established centre halves at fullback & expect an easy ride.

The way i see it,if Kelly & Enrique are fit for the bench-they can easily work 60 mins,both should have started.

Aspas was the obvious choice to replace the injured Coutinho & was deservedly dragged off at half time.

Credit to the Saints,they forced errors with their incessant pressure-what does piss me off is why we couldn't match them in that department.

Too many out of sorts performances yesterday & nowhere near enough pressure/energy when we lost possession.

I can handle an off game from anyone & the team,i will never accept anyone giving less than 100% & there were more than a few yesterday & that is the main reason the result went against us.

There is an issue we need to address regarding our captain,he is too good to be left out of the team-but i feel the position he currently plays is not to the teams benefit. SG needs to be more advanced with less defensive duties.
Sterling needs a massive kick up the arse with regards to ball retention,he concedes possession far too easily.
Moses is new to the club,but he needs more determination when we don't have possession-minimum expectation.

The return of Suarez should give everyone a boost this week,with a bit of extra work & application we'll bounce back.

[Redd Foxx]

The way i see it,if Kelly & Enrique are fit for the bench-they can easily work 60 mins,both should have started.

Not buying this, nor the popular narrative that starting the back 4 that we did was some sort of massive gaff by Brendan.  It's been well-covered ground both here and in the Post-Match collective moan thread - but honestly what REAL options did we have?  At right back, no matter who was selected, they would be playing out of position - unless of course you consider Martin Kelly in his current condition a starting Premier League fullback.  On the left, much of the same, bar Enrique who is managing an injury, or John Flanagan who has never really been a consideration under Rodgers, and rightly so.

So, if as you say we should have started with an injured Enrique and definitely not match fit Kelly, with the idea that we get 60 minutes out of both, where would that leave us?  Essentially you are saying we only have 1 sub available to change the game - if we are indeed forced to sub both fullbacks after an hour.  Bench fit is NOT starting fit - it's simple as that.

Going forward, in the absence of Johnson and fully fit left back options (Enrique/Cissohko), I'm intrigued by the idea of a back 3 of Sakho, Agger and Toure - with the caveat that we don't have many that are suited to the true wingback role.  Henderson could do a job, Moses as well - but neither would bring the balance of attack & defense required to make that position truly work as intended.

[Alf Garnett!]

The way i see it,if a player is incapable of playing 60+ mins he shouldn't be on the bench at all.

There is a big difference playing a CB at FB than a natural FB in that position-that really shouldn't be a debate!

[Prof]

I'll try to write something more substantial later, but for now I'm just going to say...

We are limited in our squad depth, and were missing Suarez, Johnson and Coutinho.  On top of that we had a half fit Sturridge.

This season is a bridging season, if we think about it from a point of view of long term club ambition.  We have to get back into the Champions League to attract the next tier of player.  Our younger players also need to get some yards under their feet.

We've bought Aspas as a stop gap as I see it.  He has some decent attributes that fit the type of football we are apparently trying to play.  We need as many of our first choice players in the team as many times as possible in the league this season.  Without them we will struggle.

[steveeastend]

He needs to show some balls and drop key players for their better counterparts, and back up his claims to having competition for every position.  The worse thing that can happen is that he tries to keep everyone happy. If he does that, we'll lose all the momentum that appeared to be building over the last calendar year.

This sums it up for me.

I wrote about this in the last round table, there is a mentality creeping in of players not trying to take responsibility, reliying on the results so far, on Coutinho, Suarez to be coming back or whatever.

I can remember last season when the team refused to give up on a game at all, played refreshing football right til the end, no matter the outcome. What happened here and frankly I cannot understand it, really.

Rodgers has to show some balls here as he did last season. He brought in refreshing young players, benched Enrique, Downing simply because they were not good enough. It was all about players giving the manager what he wanted, all about effort and having the guts to take on the game and playing positive football. Instead we are made of fear at the moment, the players overachieving last season were shocking yesterday, the tactics which made me believing in Rodgers not there, again, what happened to all this?

There are for sure a couple of more sensible reasons for this performance. As I said, I think the players developed a habit of relying too much on Coutinho and Sturridge while forgetting the basic requirements of football. Movement without the ball, making themselves available at every moment of a game, trying to force themselves into a game.. all that. Furthermore, we continued exactly the way we ended the game against Swansea. Henderson shocking with the ball, Gerrard still not recovered after the international break and the defence giving away a stupid goal.

But people should be careful putting the blame on our defense here. We conceded two goals so far this season, hardly the main problem in our game. In contrast we lack everything which made us strong at the end of last season, again, what happened?

Big questions coming up for Rodgers, as PoP pointed out, he has to be ruthless from now on, there is no margin for being sentimental and polemic. Alibi football isn´t good enough and if players are not willing or fit enough to do so then they have to be benched. Rodgers showed that he is capable of going for unpopular decisions, he has to start to believe in his methods of playing positive football again, stop letting fear and defensive thinking creeping in. The fact that there is the most important player of this club (probably) ever played, is involved in this doesn´t make it easier for Rodgers. It could turn out either way, but there is only way to look at this here, and that´s the performance on the pitch for the team.

[Garstonite]

The way i see it,if a player is incapable of playing 60+ mins he shouldn't be on the bench at all.

Bit harsh on Gerrard.

[steveeastend]

Skrtel is a player that just isnt that good. He's never been that good. And just because hes not that bad either, it doesnt make him the defender that we need.

I know you don´t like him as a player and that´s all well and good but do you really think that Skrtel has anything to do with this resulty? Really?

We didn´t play City here, we still dominated the game, which was decided in the middle of the park and on the wings and the manager decisions to play two center backs here could have had an impact here. Watching the center midfield of ManCity today should show everybody what material a center midfielder has to be made of in the PL. A fit one for a start. With this midfield we will relying on players like Coutinho and Sturridge even more.

We conceded two goals this season, seriously, it´s deflacting from other issues to go on with this center back debate, frankly, it´s getting ridiculous now.

[killer-heels]

I know you don´t like him as a player and that´s all well and good but do you really think that Skrtel has anything to do with this resulty? Really?

We didn´t play City here, we still dominated the game, which was decided in the middle of the park and on the wings. Watching the center midfield of ManCity today should show everybody what material a center midfielder has to be made of in the PL. A fit one for a start. With this midfield we will relying on players like Coutinho and Sturridge even more.

We conceded two goals this season, seriously, it´s deflacted from other issues to go on with this center back debate, frankly, it´s getting ridiculous now.

It was direct errors though that led to the goal. Skrtel wasn't great all game and that error led to the corner and Agger, yet again, lost his man on a set piece.

The defence should not be gifting goals to the opposition.

[steveeastend]

It was direct errors though that led to the goal. Skrtel wasn't great all game and that error led to the corner and Agger, yet again, lost his man on a set piece.

The defence should not be gifting goals to the opposition.

That´s the nature of the game. You wanna tell me that giving away ONE throw in or a corner is crucial for conceding a goal?

By that logic, we would have never won anything under Rafa. A mistake can happen, it matters what happens right after.

The overall mood is just wrong here, people make it look like we gave em plenty of changes, in contrast it was only ONE and overall, we conceded TWO goals so far. 2, in five games.

This games was lost in midfield and on the wing, not in defense, lost because of the mentality of the players, full of fear, trusting themselves and their team mates and unwilling to make an impression on the game while reyling on a miracle to happen. All of them. 

[Meako1977]

As bad as we have played but as someone mentioned this has been coming. The results have been far better than our performances and masked what have been some worrying performances.

Formation was wrong and manager has to take responsibility for that. Four centre backs was the wrong call but can see why he did it given Enriques lack of form and ability to pass a ball of late. Aspas is really struggling at the moment and I feel for the lad. Being asked to do a job which isn't natural to him and hope he can come through this stronger. Biggest worry for me was the sloppiness from 1st to last minute that seemed to effect every player. If we gave the ball away or stood on the ball once it must have happened twenty times. It wasn't good enough and it was almost like their was a complete lack of confidence in the team.

Hopefully we can get a few players back fit over the next week and have some options. Cissoko, Allen and maybe Kelly will make a difference to the squad and add Suarez into the equation and there will be an option then to rest some players. Looking at the squad at the moment it looks tired and that is something that concerns when we are so early into the season and we do not have European football.

Onwards and upwards though and couldn't ask for a better chance to react that Wednesday night. 

[killer-heels]

That´s the nature of the game. You wanna tell me that giving away ONE throw in or a corner is crucial for conceding a goal?

By that logic, we would have never won anything under Rafa. A mistake can happen, it matters what happens right after.

The overall mood is just wrong here, people make it look like we gave em plenty of changes, in contrast it was only ONE and overall, we conceded TWO goals so far. 2, in five games.

This games was lost in midfield and on the wing, not in defense, lost because of the mentality of the players, full of fear and unwilling to make an impression on the game and reyling on their team mates instead. All of them. 

But thats what makes the difference doesn't it? Small margins and all that.

Ok maybe Skrtel cannot be fully blamed but then Agger lost his man and the goal was scored. Thats a direct error in my view. When we are not playing well we cannot just write off defensive mistakes.

The midfield was awful. I think thats pretty clear and its also quite clearly the weakest area of our team. I think it shows how much progress we have made though that a midfield with Gerrard and Lucas is now our weakest area. With the attack we have along with the new additions in defence (who I think are both ahead of Agger and Skrtel), the midfield seems a bit off.

We have conceded 3 goals.

[steveeastend]

We have conceded 3 goals.

Ok. Which is still reasonable.

On the other hand, we only scored five... let me put it this way: I think we didn´t lose the game because of the defense, instead we couldn´t win the game because of our midfield and attacking play.

[killer-heels]

Ok. Which is still reasonable.

On the other hand, we only scored five... let me put it this way: I think we didn´t lose the game because of the defense, instead we couldn´t win the game because of our midfield and attacking play.

Maybe, but an error is an error. We cannot afford many errors.

Our attack has been disjointed. Our best attack hasn't taken the field yet and we have had Sturridge not fully fit and no Suarez. Moses has only just joined.

I am not worried about the attack. It will come. Defence with Toure and Sakho being really physical front foot defenders looks good as well. Mignolet is much better than Reina.

Midfield looks the weak link. Amazing really.

[End Product]

A watershed game, out played. Aston Villa at home last year exposed big faults in our game Rodgers remedied it by altering Lucas's positioning, hopefully we can sort the problems from this game.

I would have had Jose on at half time, Sakho at left back was an experiment but it was an adding sodium to water experiment. A left back in a Houllier side perhaps,  but not in the way we need our left back to function.

Felt for Aspas, he had some good movement but the players don't trust him, his pressing however was uncoordinated, but he was not the only one.

Our speed of passing was to slow the amount of times the ball stopped dead lead to problems. Our passing and touch were way off 2nd balls were rarely won and Agger's marking is as secure as a mini milk in a glory hole.

Southampton were brave pressed high and held a high line which we could never exploit,  except early on against Clyne. I think we need to be braver in our play, show for the ball,  trust our players to many times we go back to Mignolet which is what Southampton want. Agger only brought the ball out of defense once while Lovren did it on several occasions.   

Positives were Mignolet's triple save, and the fact that despite being poor this season we are on 2 points a game.

[John C]

The case for the defence rests on those absent and the missed opportunities in the transfer window m’lud. Surely that’s why we were so bad? Our technical best - Johnson, Suarez, Coutinho & Allen can not return quick enough, and I’m not even Joe’s biggest fan.
The lack of presence on the wings, across midfield and indeed in attacking positions made us guilty of being completely inadequate against Southampton. But if Enrique has a knock, Kelly unfit and Flanagan always a risk, did BR have many other option but to play that regretful formation??
Many posters have suggested Southampton played as well as anyone else that has inflicted defeat on us at Anfield, but although they were impressive, they didn’t need to be. We were awful and they did well to make us remain awful until the 90th minute when they left the scene with a rowdy clap around the ground from disappointed Liverpool fans.
In their own performances I thought Minoglet was good, Toure and Sahko were as ok as they could have expected to be, Moses was also ok but he lacked a bit of end product, then the rest of them got away with a days takings and were punished duly. I love Sakho’s firm stance before he heads a ball, as if he dares anyone to challenge.
Lucas & SG have now become an enigma, ffs lads just play football. I told you at the beginning of the season we needed a CM didn’t I Roy, now Lucas & SG are victims of the squad being bereft of competition or sufficient support.
If the reward is a 5-goal-on-the-trot-tally, why would Sturridge play so lazily? Ok, he was the victim of being isolated but he strolled around at times like he had a ball and chain attached.

I posted last year that I felt Suso was a better footballer than Sterling, unfortunately Sterling continues to look like he’s not progressing as a player while Aspas just looks lost. So I agree with yorky, the missed transfer targets means Suso really could have been a squad member for games like that when injuries and absences could give him a place on the bench in place of one of the 3 defenders. Yesterday he would have been a decent unforced sub option and indeed Ibe deserves a chance to offer his talent to a team that need a technical lift.

I don’t think Sturridge’s call for a pen was definit,e but if Kevin Nolan got it then he should have.

There was desperation inside Anfield but surprisingly little unrest as fans urged Liverpool to pass it quicker and move in to space more intelligently. Neither was granted by the lads in Red as time passed and our top spot relinquished.

Hopefully Suarez is BR’s get out of jail card and rescues this squad from a dramatic fall.

[steveeastend]

Maybe, but an error is an error. We cannot afford many errors.

Our attack has been disjointed. Our best attack hasn't taken the field yet and we have had Sturridge not fully fit and no Suarez. Moses has only just joined.

I am not worried about the attack. It will come. Defence with Toure and Sakho being really physical front foot defenders looks good as well. Mignolet is much better than Reina.

Midfield looks the weak link. Amazing really.

Overall you have a point. But in this game it was all about the basics not happening. No movement, players leaving their team mates out in the rain, especially in midfield and in attack, alibi passes and efforts all over the pitch. There was no togetherness and willingness to play football as a team, no trusting in their teammates and own abilities. Quite shocking to watch really.

[Guz-kop]

It's incredibly predictable and infuriating to see the Gerrard/Lucas duo get the force of the backlash yesterday.

Pressing where? Playing at a high tempo in which part of the pitch?  They both sit quite deep and it's obvious they will, they have four players ahead of them who have the biggest attacking responsibility in our side who were atrocious yesterday. Aspas, Moses, Henderson and Sturridge as a UNIT contributed nothing. They didn't play with enough of a tempo, didn't press high enough, were not close together enough and had no cohesion with our full backs in the final third of the pitch. Now - in hindsight a lot of that was predictable which is why I'm NOT having a go at them four. Two of them are new players, one has been half fit so far this season and our two full backs are centre backs. The experiment with the full backs and the four attacking players we chose simply didn't work. It was just one of them days. But the predictable backlash on the Gerrard-Lucas axis is a bit infuriating. Gerrard touched the ball more often than any Southampton player (with a decent, not incredible, accuracy rate) and Lucas hardly gave the ball away yet we didn't create a single chance from open play. Every attack broke down before we got into the box and we had no width. Sterling came on and didn't do amazingly but was at least a threat down the right hand side far more than in the first half. Southampton sat a bit deeper after they scored but he still found space better than Henderson or Aspas (or Sturridge when he was drifted out) and with a better first touch would've been 1v1 with the keeper near the end of the game.

Yesterday reminded me of our performance first half at Old Trafford last year. Suarez was miles away from Sterling and Downing who together didn't press anywhere near tight enough and United are able to step up and press us high up the pitch and the players who feel the brunt of that are our midfield and defence. We have no out ball when we win it back and end up just lumping it up to Suarez up against Vidic and Ferdinand pretty much on his own. Our front three have a massive attacking and defensive responsibility. They need to press and they press high up the pitch like they did against United first half (this season). Henderson NEEDS to lead this. With Gerrard and Lucas they also need to bear the brunt of creating chances and finding space in the final third. When they can't do it, as was the case yesterday, responsibility ends up coming on Gerrard and we know he can't do both roles anymore from a fitness point of view. How many times last year did Gerrard and Lucas look utterly lost when Coutinho, Sturridge and Suarez were ahead of them? The only time I can think of is Southampton away.

Looking back at our 2009 side - we had Torres able to hold  the ball up and split the centre backs with pace, Gerrard able to keep the ball high up the pitch and essentially be at the centre of all of our attacking play and either side we had Benayoun/Riera and Kuyt pressing like animals and being exceptional at finding space, even if their use of the ball wasn't always as consistent we would've liked. It doesn't matter how good Xabi was at recycling the ball, he would've done fuck all if he had none of that ahead of him. We had none of those qualities yesterday.

Yesterday was a stinker. We had make shift full backs and a front four who were new, playing poorly and recovering from injury. Southampton played well, we got it wrong all over the pitch. We have to take collective responsibility and look to bounce back asap. Still a good start to the season.

[CHOPPER]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ar27ChFKqA

[Ipcress]

I think this match sums up Rodgers main weakness as a manager, and that's a fear of taking off his main men if they're not performing.

Aspas is a no.9 He led the line preseason an was top scorer and created numerous assists. His introduction to the premiership has been to play on the right or behind the top striker. He's having to play in a position he wasn't good at in La Liga, in a new league, with new colleagues, and without even practising it preseason.

For me he needs to be coming on up front for Sturridge with 30mins to go.

As for being shit, if Moses or Sturridge had played the ball across the 6 yard box instead of shooting in the last 2 games, then he would have 2 goals, and we would have potentially at least three more points. These were the goals he was scoring pre season.

For that scenario to work, Rodgers would have to take off Sturridge, and I don't think he will do that. Suarez had bad games last season and was still insisting on being the main man with the compliance of his team mates and would concede possession by trying things that were not working. Rodgers would not substitute him.

As for Gerrard, Henderson and Lucas after 60 minutes have to carry his workload as well as there own. Unless he's been having a blinder, I feel Rodgers needs to "manage his minutes". I hope this game kicks him sufficiently up the arse to do so.

As for playing Sakho left back, if Enrique does have a dodgy knee, then that was his best option as I believe he's played at left back for a year at PSG, with hindsight it didn't work, but it would make sense, and I believe Toure has played right back before and again, I can see why it would make sense.

As for Skrtel, yes it was a woeful mistake that lead to the throw on, but again, it was Agger's defending at the set piece that lead to a goal, again. For all the talk of whether two left footers can play together, I'm wondering if the summer transfer market means that we Rodgers may well believe that Agger as well as Skrtel need upgrading, and the immediate future is Toure and Sakho, with Toure being phased out by Illori.

Maybe Rodgers will have the balls to sort out the Gerrard situation (maybe start by resting him after internationals), but then again I've never been good at office politics so maybe it has to be this way for now.

For the record I do like Rodgers as a manager, and I feel that he is taking us in the right direction, and he is a young manager and he will make mistakes (or as Rafa used to say, partially right decisions) and that they give him the strength to make more correct ones in future.

[skipper757]

The attack was lost without Coutihno.

Against Stoke, when things looked great, Coutihno created a lot of chances, and Aspas, Sturridge, and Henderson all looked dangerous.  The latter three feed off of Coutihno's passing.

Yesterday, with Phil missing, there just wasn't any rhythm in the attack.  How many good chances did we create from open play?  Sturridge was painfully isolated.  Aspas was lost.  Henderson was anonymous.  Henderson simply isn't a creative force.  He likes getting on the end of things.  Nowhere near as adept as creating, especially in tight spaces.  I like Henderson and I have hope for Aspas but they don't seem effective without a proper #10 type setting things up and creating chances.

Moses looked decent but that's because he's a direct player operating from wide.  Coutinho or not, Moses can create some chances on his own.  Unfortunately, he over-elaborated at times, and he couldn't find that link with Sturridge.

The team yesterday cried out for Suarez.  If you take our attack and compare it to basketball, Coutihno would be  the point guard.  Most players need that point guard to dictate the offense.  However, a few rare talents, like LeBron James, Durant, Anthony, etc, can create for themselves.  They're not as dependent on a point guard to pass them the ball when they finally get open.  Instead, they'll take the ball far away from the basket and create scoring for themselves (and sometimes teammates).  Suarez is that special player.  Whereas you see other players missing that point guard so much, Suarez doesn't miss him nearly as much.

He also creates.  He doesn't look to thread the needle all the time, but he will sometimes make nice passes.  Put Suarez in place of Aspas and the team will look far more dangerous, even without Coutinho.

[gorwar61]

In the last week Liverpool's philosophy has been scrutinized and successfully bettered!  We were lucky against Swansea that our old young boy gifted us with two opportunities, and against Southampton we looked like an away team trying to hit some on on the break.  We had in effect 6 defenders + goal keeper against Southamton, YES SOUTHAMTON at home, teh gap between Sturridge and Gerrard/ Lucas was ridiculous, the link up play was so far stretched we didn't have a chance, no wonder Gerrard and Lucas looked lost the team selection was by far the bizarre I have seen and Rafa haad a few strange ones towards the end of his reign.

Brendan needs a reality check, I hope last week gave him that because we need to play people in there positions " Simples"  Left bac in a Left back position and a right back in a Right back position, evan if we went with three center backs against Southampton I would of understood but that selection was ??

Lets give Louis a welcome on Wednesday and push Utd hard up the field like Swansea and Southampton did against us. 

P.s. Why didn't we sign Erikson, he was born to play for us.

[Kopite B205]

Upon taking my seat in the Kop yesterday I was baffled in seeing four centre halves across our back four. Straight away I remarked that we would struggle all day offensively. This proved to be the case as both Toure and moreso Sakho stuggled to offer anything worthwhile going forward. It's not their fault, they are both ball winning centre backs, not marauding full backs. A bad gaffe from our manager.

It was the type of formation I would expect to see in a tough European away game were keeping a clean sheet and nullifying the opposition was key to our tactic. I just felt that the momentum we had gained and the feel good factor established from a top of the table start was severely hampered by the defensive experiment.

In midfield the partnership of Gerrard and Lucas is very worrying. Gerrard at 33 is clearly in the first stages of decline and as a consequence he needs to be managed better in order to maximise his influence on games. Lucas on the other and is still seraching for his high fitness and performance standards prior to a very serious and debilitating injury. I do feel he would excel more with a more dynamic, combative and energetic partner. At the moment it's either Gerrard, or Lucas and then another. For me I would chose Henderson and alternate both Lucas and Gerrard depending on the opposition, form and fitness level.

Up front Strurridge looked off the pace and clearly lacks a bit of match fitness and sharpness. I thought he was anonymous to be fair; obviously not helped by a clueless looking Aspas who once again played on the periphery with zero confidence. Far to early to dismiss him yet though.

It would be unfair to judge the substitutes as the rot on a dreadful afternoon had already set in. It's hard to make an impact when almost every outfield player is having a nightmare, and I felt for both Alberto and Sterling - both young players, when they came on.

The most disappointing aspect of the game yesterday was the players attitude. There was plenty of time left to go and get a result once they scored, but the body language, application, effort and desire was missing. Certainly not the mentality of a team top of the league. Only Toure had the bit between his teeth and visibly tried to gee his teammates up.

[Draex]

The elephant in the room that is Lucas and Gerrard, I see a squad that has everything Rodgers talked about when he first came here - why hasn't he got the confidence to drop players who aren't performing and sticking out like sore-thumbs in what should be a high tempo, high pressing, possession based team?

We were top of the league playing at home yet we set up to nick a draw - Rodgers lost this game before it even started with negative tactics and his player selection. I watched City v's Utd and even though Utd were 4-0 down and City had taken their foot off the gas somewhat Utd still went for them to try and get something from the game.. The last 20mins v's Southampton only Toure was pushing forward, everyone else was more scared of taking a risk they just retreated into their shells and we'd pass it around and then punt it long. We didn't look like a team who was top, we looked like a team lacking belief that we are actually good enough.

This is where Rodgers will sink or swim, he has to make the tough calls (If Rafa was back manager you know the team would be built around the right players, not the historical ones.) Is this Rodgers showing he hasn't got the big enough mentality for a club like ours? This is no dig, I believe in Rodgers and really do think he is the right man for the job but he still hasn't made unpopular choices yet, he plays it safe a lot. I feel if he actually did what he really thinks (but is scared to make the plunge) we'd become a monster of a team. You can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs, get into the kitchen Rodgers and break those eggs so we can all sample your lovely tata's!