Author Topic: Paris  (Read 182487 times)

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1760 on: July 13, 2022, 10:51:53 pm »
Just checked the BBC app on my phone out of interest and mine looks different, is it the size of your phone screen making a difference to the layout?



Cheers, thanks for that. That is why I asked for links.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1761 on: July 13, 2022, 10:53:49 pm »
bbc footie main page.  "unfairly" is on first line .

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1762 on: July 13, 2022, 10:56:36 pm »
bbc footie main page.  "unfairly" is on first line .

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football

I am on a desktop and it is shows as 'Liverpool fans blamed'
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1763 on: July 13, 2022, 10:59:11 pm »
Home page for me...

Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1764 on: July 13, 2022, 10:59:57 pm »
I am on a desktop and it is shows as 'Liverpool fans blamed'

Why do you keep leaving out the unfairly which follows the above Al?
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1765 on: July 13, 2022, 11:19:42 pm »
if you CTRL + or - you can affect how big the writing of a webpage appears on your desktop. If you've got bigger writing then words will be bumped to the line below.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1766 on: July 13, 2022, 11:53:52 pm »
Why do you keep leaving out the unfairly which follows the above Al?

Because if he doesn't his case is utterly destroyed.

It's almost as if he wants a conspiracy.

Honestly Al, you're bonkers on this.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1767 on: July 14, 2022, 09:18:54 am »
if you CTRL + or - you can affect how big the writing of a webpage appears on your desktop. If you've got bigger writing then words will be bumped to the line below.

Which is something headline writers are well aware of. Part of their job is to ensure that text wrapping does not lead to something offensive or innapropriate being published

Almost every other News outlet put unfairly in front of blamed. Doing so makes things clear. From what I can see only the BBC and the fail went with blamed unfairly. Even the shitstain of a paper that is the fail had the foresight to capitalise UNFAIRLY to avoid confusion caused by text wrapping.
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Offline chris90

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1768 on: July 14, 2022, 10:08:11 am »
Given how the majority of us couldn’t really give two shites about the match once in and being more worried about the aftermath can I have my admission money back please

I'm defo interested in a refund... I couldn't get in the ground with my paper ticket :butt

Offline oojason

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1769 on: July 14, 2022, 11:18:54 am »

"The French government tried to blame a mass of foreign people for their own failings.

"Gérald Darmanin and Amélie Oudéa-Castéra thought they could get away with blaming people who would simply go away. Their lies have now been shown in a formal way."

"It is only right that fans who have suffered mental and physical injuries, and who have been lied about in the aftermath, are given a formal apology.

"That should come from the French government, and the two really powerful ministers who testified falsely before the senate."


^ Dan Austin on Sky News : https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin/status/1547503353088937984 (with 2 short videos)
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Offline SalahsLeftFoot

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1770 on: July 14, 2022, 05:59:30 pm »
Which is something headline writers are well aware of. Part of their job is to ensure that text wrapping does not lead to something offensive or innapropriate being published

No it's not.

Web editors have no idea how many words will fit on a line [ they have no control over the text size a user has chosen for their browser ]. In print media this may be a thing, but online ??? You're talking total fucking twaddle - not for the first time - and looking for a conspiracy that just isn't there.

The <h1> tag - that's the important bit for anyone who has even the slightest idea on how DOM/SEO/accessibility works - for that article is:

Code: [Select]
<h1>Uefa Liverpool final: Fans blamed unfairly for litany of errors, says report</h1>

All in one sentance with no possible room for doubt unless you are deliberately looking for something that just isn't there
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 06:01:05 pm by SalahsLeftFoot »

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1771 on: July 14, 2022, 06:27:52 pm »
No it's not.

Web editors have no idea how many words will fit on a line [ they have no control over the text size a user has chosen for their browser ]. In print media this may be a thing, but online ??? You're talking total fucking twaddle - not for the first time - and looking for a conspiracy that just isn't there.

The <h1> tag - that's the important bit for anyone who has even the slightest idea on how DOM/SEO/accessibility works - for that article is:

Code: [Select]
<h1>Uefa Liverpool final: Fans blamed unfairly for litany of errors, says report</h1>

All in one sentance with no possible room for doubt unless you are deliberately looking for something that just isn't there

You ensure the message is clear by constructing the sentence properly. That is the job of the headline writer.

As I have said over and over almost every other News outlet went with 'unfairly blamed' which is far clearer and avoids the problems that text wrapping introduces.

Personally, I think the BBC has constructed the sentence poorly and chosen an image that simply does not reflect the context of the article. The other problem I have is that they produced an article that accused the French authorities and UEFA of a smear and compared it to Hillsborough. Sadly that article only made it on to the local news feed. They had an opportunity to widely publicise the allegations of a smear nationally but chose only to preach to the converted.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 06:55:36 pm by Al 666 »
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1772 on: July 14, 2022, 06:35:25 pm »
You ensure the message is clear by constructing the sentence properly. That is the job of the headline writer.

As I have said over and over almost every other News outlet went with 'unfairly blamed' which is far clearer and avoids the problems that text wrapping introduces.

Personally, I think the BBC has constructed the sentence poorly and chosen an image that simply does not reflect the context of the article. The other problem I have is that they produced an article that compared the French authorities and UEFA of a smear and compared it to Hillsborough. Sadly that article only made it on to the local news feed. They had an opportunity to widely publicise the allegations of a smear nationally but chose only to preach to the converted.

I'm going to agree with you here, seeing blamed put before unfairly does give the impression that they are saying that Liverpool fans are to blame, probably because it is the wrong way round.

No conspiracy, just poorly written
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1773 on: July 14, 2022, 06:52:31 pm »
Everyone else has gone with 'Liverpool fans unfairly blamed'

The BBC has decided to rearrange that and put it on separate lines.

'Liverpool fans blamed
unfairly for Uefa final chaos'

Then when you click through, the headline is

'Uefa Liverpool final: Fans blamed
unfairly for litany of errors, says
report'

So at first glance both headlines appear to blame Liverpool fans.

Perhaps it's that the BBC prefered not to use a split infinitive?

Offline oojason

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1774 on: July 14, 2022, 07:13:43 pm »

'Liverpool fans’ senate victory should make rival supporters re-think their petty football tribalism' (by Dan Austin):-

The fact that so many supporters choose to blame those who share the same passion as them is a major reason authorities continue to get away with treating them like animals

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/liverpool-fans-senate-victory-petty-football-tribalism-1741137
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1775 on: July 14, 2022, 07:41:19 pm »
'Liverpool fans’ senate victory should make rival supporters re-think their petty football tribalism' (by Dan Austin):-

The fact that so many supporters choose to blame those who share the same passion as them is a major reason authorities continue to get away with treating them like animals

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/liverpool-fans-senate-victory-petty-football-tribalism-1741137

As if. Paris will be another stick to beat us with at every game.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1776 on: July 14, 2022, 09:23:01 pm »

'Revealed: two members of Paris final ‘independent’ review worked for Uefa':-

Daniel Ribeiro and Luis Silva have had roles for governing body
Independence of review’s chairman has also been questioned


Two members of the review panel appointed to carry out a review into events outside the Champions League final appear to have worked extensively for Uefa

www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/14/revealed-two-members-of-paris-final-independent-review-worked-for-uefa
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1777 on: July 15, 2022, 10:41:21 am »
Thanks for that, an Independent review in which pretty much all of the appointees have connections to UEFA and Ceferin.

That is why we need to keep the pressure on and gather as much evidence as possible. UEFA will yet again try and wriggle out of culpability for an event they chose the host City for and they organised.

It has echoes of Heysel. Liverpool fans and the Belgian football authorities were rightly held to account but UEFA squirmed out of their responsibilities.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1778 on: July 16, 2022, 12:20:20 am »
Agree Al, don’t think we are going to be in the firing line, they have a scapegoat but Uefa must be held to account

You get major sporting events across the globe that put the customer experience at the forefront of their planning. Then you involve UEFA in a major event, and it turns into a shit show.

Fans pay vastly inflated ticket prices for events that are badly organised, have zero thought for fans and regularly subject fans to safety near misses.

Then the organisers UEFA routinely blame their customers and/or the City THEY chose to host the event.

Now we have the bizarre situation in which the 'promoter' unilaterally decides to hold its own inquiry that yet again blames either its customers or the venue it chose for its failings.     

 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 12:24:13 am by Al 666 »
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1779 on: July 16, 2022, 03:41:47 pm »
Don't think its just UEFA though, if you watch the footy news from around the world you will see football fans being treated like shit.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1780 on: July 16, 2022, 07:35:58 pm »
At some point on one of the threads someone posted qa link where you could make a complaint directly to Uefa. I did it at time but have heard nothing back and I'm wondering if anyone that completed it, did?

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1781 on: July 16, 2022, 10:20:01 pm »
At some point on one of the threads someone posted qa link where you could make a complaint directly to Uefa. I did it at time but have heard nothing back and I'm wondering if anyone that completed it, did?

I think UEFA are not going to comment until 'THEIR' investigation is complete. So maybe that is why they are not replying to complaints.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1782 on: July 17, 2022, 12:36:30 pm »
I think UEFA are not going to comment until 'THEIR' investigation is complete. So maybe that is why they are not replying to complaints.

Nice one Al, probably that all right.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1783 on: July 17, 2022, 01:03:00 pm »
Don't think its just UEFA though, if you watch the footy news from around the world you will see football fans being treated like shit.

Especially in places like France, where the only experience the police have of dealing with away fans is the annual Cup Final, away fans are banned in the ligue one games.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1784 on: July 17, 2022, 08:08:54 pm »
Valid point, however in this case it was Uefa again in Paris. The same people who fucked up the Uefa Cup by appointing Sevilla as hosts, when anyone who went to the Liverpool game there a few seasons back could have told you that their policing and stewarding was heavy handed, stuck in the dark ages and completely unacceptable treating fans appallingly, we had phone batteries confiscated an essential when traveling with tickets on your phone, exactly the same problems faced by Scottish and German fans years later  Uefa don’t care about fans welfare or safety and are quick to pass the buck. They should not be allowed to squirm away from responsibility yet again

At least the French Senate report was published quickly which should limit UEFA’s wriggle room.

Still doesn’t minimise the contempt with which UEFA treat match going fans though.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1785 on: July 20, 2022, 12:36:24 pm »

'Didier Lallement is no longer the chief of police for the Greater Paris region.

The man who gave the order for Liverpool fans including women, children and the disabled to be tear gassed and beaten is out of a job.

He is "retiring" after being internationally humiliated by fans.

In his exit letter, the only specific event Lallement mentions is the Stade de France fiasco.

He ludicrously claims the police "saved lives on the night of the Champions League final" before admitting that his actions caused immense reputational damage to France.

Lallement is being replaced by a man called Laurent Nuñez, who is said to be more moderate and has been tasked with restoring the reputation of the police.

Remains to be seen if violence reduces. But Lallement losing his power is a great result for everyone who went to the final'

Lallement was supposed to remain in his role for another year. It is quite clear that the Stade de France carnage has very much hastened his departure.

Good riddance to an absolutely horrendous human being. All the best to the people of Paris who are safer now he is gone.'


^ from https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin/status/1549687591552811008
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1786 on: July 20, 2022, 12:40:55 pm »

'UEFA Champions League Final 2022 Independent Review. An open letter to Dr Rodrigues, Chair of UEFA’s Independent Review'

Link: https://spiritofshankly.com/ucl-final-independent-review (or at https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1549411604424531972)




« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 12:42:48 pm by oojason »
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1787 on: July 20, 2022, 03:57:09 pm »
Wonder if they’ve contacted Real supporters groups?

Still drag it on a couple of weeks and then the League starts, bit longer to the CL draw on the 25th August and before long the group matches will start.

Problem solved.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1788 on: July 20, 2022, 05:35:06 pm »
That's a good letter by Spirit of Shankly and the Disabled Supporters' Association. They must have been burning to say something more extreme, but restrained indignation (at this stage) is more powerful.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1789 on: July 20, 2022, 08:11:59 pm »

'Police chief on Paris final ‘independent review’ is Uefa security officer':-

Amsterdam chief Frank Paauw has longstanding ties with Uefa
All four people assisting review chair have worked for Uefa


www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/20/police-chief-on-champions-league-final-independent-review-is-uefa-security-officer-frank-paauw
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Stade de France group litigation
« Reply #1790 on: August 3, 2022, 02:19:12 pm »
https://www.leighday.co.uk/our-services ... oup-claim/

This is now live, it has been the subject of considerable work. It is packaged and ready to go and is not just an exercise in gathering details.  There will be SOS comms on it soon and some local publicity is already live via the echo..

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/law-firm-investigating-group-legal-24659247
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1791 on: August 4, 2022, 04:51:31 pm »
https://www.leighday.co.uk/our-services ... oup-claim/

This is now live, it has been the subject of considerable work. It is packaged and ready to go and is not just an exercise in gathering details.  There will be SOS comms on it soon and some local publicity is already live via the echo..

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/law-firm-investigating-group-legal-24659247

Nice one . I posted on here that me Da got attacked and took a few vollies to his head . He is now in the Royal after suffering from a stroke as there's not enough blood going to his brain or something. He was getting ready to go the match on Saturday and he took the knock.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1792 on: August 5, 2022, 03:34:40 am »
Nice one . I posted on here that me Da got attacked and took a few vollies to his head . He is now in the Royal after suffering from a stroke as there's not enough blood going to his brain or something. He was getting ready to go the match on Saturday and he took the knock.

I'm really sorry to hear that, Kesey. I hope your Dad will be ok.
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Offline kesey

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1793 on: August 6, 2022, 12:14:27 pm »
I'm really sorry to hear that, Kesey. I hope your Dad will be ok.

Nice one . He got out last night mate .  :thumbup
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Offline redgriffin73

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1794 on: August 8, 2022, 12:35:15 pm »
Nice one . He got out last night mate .  :thumbup

That's great to hear :)
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1795 on: August 8, 2022, 12:37:55 pm »
That's great to hear :)
It is.

Wishing your Dad all the best, Kesey.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1796 on: August 8, 2022, 12:40:10 pm »
Nice one . He got out last night mate .  :thumbup
Glad to hear this.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1797 on: August 18, 2022, 02:46:18 pm »
Any updates or notice of when investigations are being finished? Emailed Uefa this week again no reply  from them but then again what do you expect. Has really damaged my ability to care about football this season.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1798 on: August 18, 2022, 03:12:30 pm »
Got an email back from my MP this week, forwarding on what is basically a load of waffle from the Minister of State for Europe repeating everything we already know. I assume the same letter will go out to anyone who contacted their MP.

Quote
Thank you for your email of 7 June to the Foreign Secretary, and for forwarding on the correspondence from your constituent regarding the treatment of Liverpool fans at the Champions League Final in Paris on 28 May. I am replying as the Minister for Europe. Please accept my apologies for the delay.
The Foreign Secretary raised our concerns with the French Foreign Minister, Catherine Colonna, on 1 June. The Minister for Sport, Nigel Huddleston MP, also spoke with his counterpart, Amélie Oudéa-Castéra, on 7 June to discuss the French Government’s response. I welcome the fact that the French Interior Minister and Sports Minister have now apologised to fans and admitted that mistakes were made.
I am pleased that UEFA has commissioned an independent investigation and issued an apology to fans who attended the final. I understand that Liverpool FC contacted fans who had purchased a ticket for the game to encourage them to share their experience via an online form, in order to assist UEFA’s investigation. Although the feedback form has now closed, LFC is advising fans to check for updates on its position on www.liverpoolfc.com.
The French Government will be supporting the UEFA investigation and the French Sports Minister commissioned an independent review of the delivery of the event. This concluded on 13 July and the report identified significant shortcomings in the French handing of the event. It also deemed it unfair that Liverpool FC supporters were blamed for the disturbances that occurred. The full report can be found here: Essentiel (senat.fr)
The French Government has also called for sanctions against any police officers who misused tear gas and confirmed that they will pursue compensation for fans who had a valid ticket but were unable to enter the stadium.
The French Embassy in London has announced that fans who were victims of crime during the final can file a complaint with the French judicial authorities. Further details can be found here: https://uk.ambafrance.org/Arrangements-for-foreign-nationals-who-were-victims-of-crime-during-Champions.

Yours ever,

Graham Stuart MP
Minister of State for Europe
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Offline PhilScraton

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1799 on: September 6, 2022, 01:10:31 am »
'I am pleased that UEFA has commissioned an independent investigation ...' So the UK Minister of State for Europe has swallowed the myth of independence. Watch this space.
« Last Edit: September 7, 2022, 02:18:05 am by PhilScraton »
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