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--- Quote from: Schmidt on October  2, 2022, 06:28:53 pm ---Henderson's just back from injury and also on a bit of a decline, I'd still have him in over Elliot but clearly the issue is the lack of signings. If we did sign a midfielder for that role in the summer though, I can't imagine we would've voluntarily gone with an almost out and out attacker like we have been in most matches.

--- End quote ---
We started last season with Elliot in midfield. Like it or not, that’s where Klopp sees him.


--- Quote from: Funky_Gibbons on October  2, 2022, 07:36:07 pm ---We started last season with Elliot in midfield. Like it or not, that’s where Klopp sees him.

--- End quote ---

He's not quick enough to play forward either.

In basketball - they call him a tweener - in between one position or the other. Often those types of players have to become exceptional to make it.

Personally I think Fabinho and Trent need dropping at this point and I’d also be looking to change formation to a 4231 as I think it’ll help us become more defensively solid and lessen the need for our right back to be so attacking. I also think it would suit Elliot and Carvalho better as well as possibly Nunez. Gomez at right back, a 2 of Hendo and Thiago then Nunez up top with Salah, Firmino and Díaz behind would be interesting to me. There’s plenty of firepower there and I’d hope we’d be more defensively solid.


--- Quote from: Knight on October  2, 2022, 03:41:08 pm ---This is bang on I reckon, and a poster who's name I forget was saying a similar thing a few weeks back in a way that got significant pushback, some of it understandable, but the basic point he made was very enlightening to me. We've got more advanced 8s but our fullbacks are just as advanced. In fact, Trent has become a player with a free role. If we're going to put our 8s so high up the pitch, we need to play our fullbacks deeper and narrower.

You then combine this positional and tactical suicide with some significant physical decline. It looks to me like all 3 of our midfielders (those that started yesterday) might have lost something physically. Henderson definitely, Thiago probably, Fabinho maybe. Plus Firmino almost certainly has. This means 4 of our most significant players for the press and the counter press are physically declining.

You combine that with some players being below their normal standards (Van Dijk inexplicably missing routine clearances in the box for instance, or Trent desperately seeking to prove Southgate right that he can't defend).

And finally you've got Klopp making some odd choices. Why is Milner still getting PL minutes? He's a total liability at this point.

Positional/ tactical errors + physically declining players + poor performances/ form from individuals + bad/ odd decisions from Klopp = a nightmare start to the season. Some of these things can be fixed, but not all of them.

--- End quote ---

A lot of people said this, including myself.

The issue is that we have incompatible aspects to our play and our identity has somewhat regressed. We are always a team that is more than the sum of its parts. We don't always have the big names in every position, but when we play cohesively we are defensively compact and devastating in attack. We have lost some of those aspects and as a result look vulnerable in all types of defence and somewhat toothless and happy-go-lucky in attack.

I think we should probably reign it in somewhat, become more compact, look to control the tempo of the games by dominating the football, leaving us less to do off the ball. While the loyalty to certain players is commendable, we can't keep rewarding bad form with continued starts when there are alternatives. We need to stick to a more simple game plan that doesn't leave us exposed an unbalanced so often and try to build our confidence again.


--- Quote from: please, I have my reasons for it but... on October  2, 2022, 02:44:10 pm ---Like I said yesterday, the system is broken. It doesn't help that individuals are making more mistakes but you can argue that the mistakes are a result of having to deal with more defensive actions too.

Klopp's system utilizes risk vs reward, and at this moment, the reward is definitely not worth the risk and I honestly don't see any benefit from whatever we're doing on the right side.

A couple of seasons ago, City started in a similar manner like us (granted the competition now is more fierce) with 11 points after 7 games, 1 more than Liverpool's current haul. Pep stopped trying to do anything creative, just went to basics. He forgone trying to utilize the wings, packed the middle and made sure that the team is more compact, they pressed less than other seasons and dropped deeper so that they won't tire in a compact schedule. Right now, Klopp needs to be pragmatic and do something similar, stop trying to reinvent the wheel. The squad needed reinforcement especially in midfield, but that's the hand that he has been dealt with and you got to adapt. Even the individual mistakes, are compounded by the fact that we have to deal with more defensive actions than past seasons. But if we play with the same naivety, trusting the same broken system, and expect the same results, then that's madness.

--- End quote ---

Everyone should watch that great video analysis as well, it's showing how having Trent as an inverted full back is causing us huge problems as well as other structural things letting us down

Pep and Klopp have a difficult decision to make, do they go back to basics or do they continue with the new system they are trying to implement(The same one as peps at NEC which didn't work) and hope that it will come good?


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