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The Klopp Template
ThePoolMan:
--- Quote from: please, I have my reasons for it but... on October 2, 2022, 02:44:10 pm ---Like I said yesterday, the system is broken. It doesn't help that individuals are making more mistakes but you can argue that the mistakes are a result of having to deal with more defensive actions too.
Klopp's system utilizes risk vs reward, and at this moment, the reward is definitely not worth the risk and I honestly don't see any benefit from whatever we're doing on the right side.
A couple of seasons ago, City started in a similar manner like us (granted the competition now is more fierce) with 11 points after 7 games, 1 more than Liverpool's current haul. Pep stopped trying to do anything creative, just went to basics. He forgone trying to utilize the wings, packed the middle and made sure that the team is more compact, they pressed less than other seasons and dropped deeper so that they won't tire in a compact schedule. Right now, Klopp needs to be pragmatic and do something similar, stop trying to reinvent the wheel. The squad needed reinforcement especially in midfield, but that's the hand that he has been dealt with and you got to adapt. Even the individual mistakes, are compounded by the fact that we have to deal with more defensive actions than past seasons. But if we play with the same naivety, trusting the same broken system, and expect the same results, then that's madness.
https://youtu.be/pisSV1OqPMA
--- End quote ---
Good post.
Knight:
--- Quote from: paddysour on October 2, 2022, 10:31:06 am ---The thing I don't understand about our tactics is that we basically made Trent and Robbo be the creative force in our team because our 3 in midfield (Hendo, Fab, Gini) were much more functional than incisive. Which is absolutely fine we had great balance - Hendo and Gini were disciplined and athletic enough to get out and help the fullback, without exposing Fabinhos weak athleticism in the centre, so he could focus on dominating his zone.
We swapped Thiago for Gini who adds much more penetration. And on the other side we've instructed the 8 to get really high and wide, involved in the attack. But with these changes rather than reign in the fullbacks to keep the balance, we've gone crazy with Trent's positioning. He spends long periods in the number 10 position, there is no 8 to cover him. Meaning Fabinho now looks like he's running in treacle trying to get out and help, which exposes his own zone as well. It's just all rather odd.
I think we tell Trent he is a normal RB now, or we address the balance in midfield again. What we're doing now clearly doesn't work and it's scary that we seem to want to persist with it.
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This is bang on I reckon, and a poster who's name I forget was saying a similar thing a few weeks back in a way that got significant pushback, some of it understandable, but the basic point he made was very enlightening to me. We've got more advanced 8s but our fullbacks are just as advanced. In fact, Trent has become a player with a free role. If we're going to put our 8s so high up the pitch, we need to play our fullbacks deeper and narrower.
You then combine this positional and tactical suicide with some significant physical decline. It looks to me like all 3 of our midfielders (those that started yesterday) might have lost something physically. Henderson definitely, Thiago probably, Fabinho maybe. Plus Firmino almost certainly has. This means 4 of our most significant players for the press and the counter press are physically declining.
You combine that with some players being below their normal standards (Van Dijk inexplicably missing routine clearances in the box for instance, or Trent desperately seeking to prove Southgate right that he can't defend).
And finally you've got Klopp making some odd choices. Why is Milner still getting PL minutes? He's a total liability at this point.
Positional/ tactical errors + physically declining players + poor performances/ form from individuals + bad/ odd decisions from Klopp = a nightmare start to the season. Some of these things can be fixed, but not all of them.
ThePoolMan:
--- Quote from: Knight on October 2, 2022, 03:41:08 pm ---This is bang on I reckon, and a poster who's name I forget was saying a similar thing a few weeks back in a way that got significant pushback, some of it understandable, but the basic point he made was very enlightening to me. We've got more advanced 8s but our fullbacks are just as advanced. In fact, Trent has become a player with a free role. If we're going to put our 8s so high up the pitch, we need to play our fullbacks deeper and narrower.
You then combine this positional and tactical suicide with some significant physical decline. It looks to me like all 3 of our midfielders (those that started yesterday) might have lost something physically. Henderson definitely, Thiago probably, Fabinho maybe. Plus Firmino almost certainly has. This means 4 of our most significant players for the press and the counter press are physically declining.
You combine that with some players being below their normal standards (Van Dijk inexplicably missing routine clearances in the box for instance, or Trent desperately seeking to prove Southgate right that he can't defend).
And finally you've got Klopp making some odd choices. Why is Milner still getting PL minutes? He's a total liability at this point.
Positional/ tactical errors + physically declining players + poor performances/ form from individuals + bad/ odd decisions from Klopp = a nightmare start to the season. Some of these things can be fixed, but not all of them.
--- End quote ---
The worrying thing is that despite the layoff enforced by the state funeral, these structural issues were not resolved and a more sustainable way of playing was not installed to fix the holes in our system. Why not? What is happening in the club currently?
Asam:
Is it time for us to consider a back 3? we need to get some defensive stability and clean sheets-
Trent is an ideal right wing back
we have excellent centre back options / Gomez has the pace and mobility to play on the right of a 3, Konate and matip could both play in the centre
we could try Bajectic alongside Fabinho to give us more energy and stability if we’re away from home
Trent can focus on getting his confidence back and doing what he does better than anyone
Alisson
Gomez. Matip. VVD
Trent. Fabinho. Thiago. Tsimakis
Diaz
Salah. Jota
Schmidt:
--- Quote from: Knight on October 2, 2022, 03:41:08 pm ---This is bang on I reckon, and a poster who's name I forget was saying a similar thing a few weeks back in a way that got significant pushback, some of it understandable, but the basic point he made was very enlightening to me. We've got more advanced 8s but our fullbacks are just as advanced. In fact, Trent has become a player with a free role. If we're going to put our 8s so high up the pitch, we need to play our fullbacks deeper and narrower.
--- End quote ---
Playing Elliot so high seems personnel driven rather than necessarily how we want to play. Anyone else in that role tries to track back more and plug gaps, but Elliot gets free reign to just play how he wants.
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