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Eeyore:

--- Quote from: JackWard33 on June  4, 2023, 11:56:09 am ---If Fabinho isnít a ball winner heís redundant as a footballer at this level - sadly

--- End quote ---

I think the only caveat might be that if we get legs around Fabinho and get him closer to the opposition players by being more compact then his ball-winning ability may improve. For me, he did improve later in the season when using Trent as an IFB gave us an extra body in midfield whilst Jones added some legs.

The likelihood though is that we should look to move him on but can't really afford to do that because of a lack of planning. It would be a huge gamble to basically go with a whole new midfield given how system-specific our midfield is. The season could be gone before the midfield beds in. Especially seen as it would mean trying to acclimatise both the attack and midfield to Klopps methods. 

Knight:

--- Quote from: Al 666 on June  4, 2023, 12:07:29 pm ---I think the only caveat might be that if we get legs around Fabinho and get him closer to the opposition players by being more compact then his ball-winning ability may improve. For me, he did improve later in the season when using Trent as an IFB gave us an extra body in midfield whilst Jones added some legs.

The likelihood though is that we should look to move him on but can't really afford to do that because of a lack of planning. It would be a huge gamble to basically go with a whole new midfield given how system-specific our midfield is. The season could be gone before the midfield beds in. Especially seen as it would mean trying to acclimatise both the attack and midfield to Klopps methods.

--- End quote ---

I think the gamble was last season trying to play a whole season without a new midfield. NOT playing a new midfield next season (2/3s of 1 at least, with ONE of Thiago or Jones regularly starting) would be suicide.

n00bert:
Do we think that we are persisting with Trent in deep-lying playmaker double pivot role? Does anyone think with the current slew of rumoured signings, that we aren't going for a traditional 6 a la Fab and moving toward what I'd like to think is a system of 4 8s - or 4 players that are all a bit 10/8/6 - a la Mac Alister?

What of the front line? I have a feeling that Klopp signed Nunez to play him like Sadio played the end of his last season. Not so much as a wide forward but more as a spearhead for the attack. If this is the case, how do you think the midfield best adjusts to this? Where does Gakpo and Salah fit in amongst this?

I'll be honest, I've always felt that Klopp has been moving towards a bit of 4-2-3-1 with Trent forming one of the 2. Or even a 5-3-2 or some variant thereof.

RedG13:

--- Quote from: n00bert on June  6, 2023, 06:36:22 am ---Do we think that we are persisting with Trent in deep-lying playmaker double pivot role? Does anyone think with the current slew of rumoured signings, that we aren't going for a traditional 6 a la Fab and moving toward what I'd like to think is a system of 4 8s - or 4 players that are all a bit 10/8/6 - a la Mac Alister?

What of the front line? I have a feeling that Klopp signed Nunez to play him like Sadio played the end of his last season. Not so much as a wide forward but more as a spearhead for the attack. If this is the case, how do you think the midfield best adjusts to this? Where does Gakpo and Salah fit in amongst this?

I'll be honest, I've always felt that Klopp has been moving towards a bit of 4-2-3-1 with Trent forming one of the 2. Or even a 5-3-2 or some variant thereof.

--- End quote ---
Kone 6 is a type. I think Nunez probably long term thinks can be  Lewandowski type 9 with the pace(his output at Benfica and number suggest he can be this but also needs to improve passing). Jones/Mac Allister more controlling type even if more advanced Elliott/One of Thuram/Veiga More Creative type on the right but all 4 could play in any combo.
Diaz is more Saido. Salah on the right. Gakpo looks like a firmino type 9 but idk how that fits with Nunez at times, Maybe he get tried out wide a little too(from the scouting reporting his crossing was good in the dutch league)  Looks like building to be a 3-2-2-3 Buildup and defending more like 4-3-3 out of possession.

Knight:

--- Quote from: n00bert on June  6, 2023, 06:36:22 am ---Do we think that we are persisting with Trent in deep-lying playmaker double pivot role? Does anyone think with the current slew of rumoured signings, that we aren't going for a traditional 6 a la Fab and moving toward what I'd like to think is a system of 4 8s - or 4 players that are all a bit 10/8/6 - a la Mac Alister?

What of the front line? I have a feeling that Klopp signed Nunez to play him like Sadio played the end of his last season. Not so much as a wide forward but more as a spearhead for the attack. If this is the case, how do you think the midfield best adjusts to this? Where does Gakpo and Salah fit in amongst this?

I'll be honest, I've always felt that Klopp has been moving towards a bit of 4-2-3-1 with Trent forming one of the 2. Or even a 5-3-2 or some variant thereof.

--- End quote ---

Great question. If we invert Trent we then need to ensure there's enough bodies behind the ball and covering the right hand side of our defence when we lose possession and the opposition break. Konate solves this when he's fit but I worry about what happens when he's injured. If we could find a CB flexible enough to play left back AND the right hand side of defence that would be amazing. He could cover for Konate AND come in for Roberton when we want our LB to effectively play as a 3rd centre back (like Arsenal and City do). I think Robertson can do this to some extent but you neuter Robertson's best attributes and accentuate some of his weaknesses when you ask him to do a 3rd CB type role from LB.

Assuming Trent is inverted in possession and the LB plays more conservatively (whether Robbo or a new CB type player) we, at least potentially, mitigate against the catastrophe that was Fabinho at points last season. I'd still much, much rather replace him this summer but with Trent near him and 3 CBs behind him I suspect he has a lot more bodies around him than we had when our 8s were going all over the shop, Trent had a free role and Robertson was playing as a winger.

Moving further forward, if Trent is inverted and we have 3 more conservative defenders our 8s are, in theory, freed up. If we can find the players that can start helping in the build up more, both in terms of receiving progressive passes and being progressors/ creators themselves, I'd hope that the need for a Gapko type in possession would be lessened and a 'tip of the spear' player like Nunez would be more viable. At the moment Henderson offers so little in the buildup phase that it's no wonder we need a Gapko type in possession. That doesn't solve the off the ball issues with Nunez but perhaps he can get himself to a good enough counter pressing level for that to be ok.

If we can do all that (which will mean bringing in 8s that can help in the build-up phase, preferably a new 6 and a defender who can BOTH cover Konate and cover Robertson) I'd like to see us continue with inverting Trent. Getting him more central makes him more dangerous because the opposition can't use a touchline to defend against him. He's such an elite player that finding ways of making him was dangerous as possible in posession feels sensible to me. We don't want him to become our 6 because that will neuter his attacking freedom and it's still not clear to me that he'd be a good 8 in the De Bruyne mould, although his aptitude under pressure in possession since he's been inverted has made me wonder if I've underestimated him. Of course if we did move him to 8 we'd need to buy a new right back. New 8s would also, potentially, enable Nunez to get in the team more often, which will help because Salah is going to become less and less of a 'tip of the spear' player as he ages.

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