Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1448485 times)

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22040 on: April 27, 2019, 09:09:13 am »
So has anyone decided who they will be voting in the EU elections?

I've settled on Green, not just because they've been consistently pro-Peoples Vote, but because I feel this is a critical juncture for Green politics (With the limelight being on Greta Thornburg, Extinction Rebellion and David Attenborough)

Everyone else is a shambles (okay the Greens aren't exactly well put together either - but at least people know where they stand)

Greens.

I can't vote for the Brexit loving Labour shithouses.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22041 on: April 27, 2019, 09:42:16 am »
I voted Lib Dems in the locals and probably Greens or Change UK in the Euros.

Offline Libertine

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22042 on: April 27, 2019, 10:13:40 am »
Not sure where people are getting the idea that CUK are the best option for a Remain vote in the Euros:

http://britainelects.com/europarl19/

Polls may change over the next few weeks of course, and would be great to get constituency ones, but LD or Greens seem to be the best bet for now.

Offline Devon Red

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22043 on: April 27, 2019, 10:26:57 am »
At this point a lot hinges on Labour agreeing to put a confirmatory referendum in their EU manifesto. My worry is that they fudge it and a Labour vote will be viewed by the media as 'Brexit lite'. If they are clearly in favour of a people's vote then I would hope enough remainers get behind them to make them the overall winners. Labour beating the Brexit Party on a second referendum platform would be huge, plus the combined votes of Labour, Libs, Greens and CHUK would be way over half. A clear majority for a second referendum. This scenario totally depends on what happens when the Labour exec meet on Tuesday.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22044 on: April 27, 2019, 10:38:54 am »
I'll vote Labour in the local elections and probably Greens in the European elections (usually the party I vote for if I'm not voting Labour).

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22045 on: April 27, 2019, 10:44:07 am »
Lib Dems for me.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22046 on: April 27, 2019, 10:58:34 am »
Greens for me, possibly SNP depending on polls.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22047 on: April 27, 2019, 11:30:01 am »
Not sure where people are getting the idea that CUK are the best option for a Remain vote in the Euros:

http://britainelects.com/europarl19/

Polls may change over the next few weeks of course, and would be great to get constituency ones, but LD or Greens seem to be the best bet for now.
EU MEP Election betting.
Brexit party    1/2
Labour  6/4
Change UK 40/1
Conservatives  40/1
UKIP 66/1
Lib Dems 100/1
Greens 200/1
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22048 on: April 27, 2019, 04:41:11 pm »

Survation.
‏ @Survation

NEW: UK European Parliament Voting Intention (changes vs EP election ’14) from 1,999 interviewed adults aged 18+, April 17th-25th.

CON 16% (-7),
LAB 27% (+2),
LD 8% (+1),
UKIP 7% (-20),
GRN 4% (-4),
SNP 3% (+1),
BXP 27% (new),
CHUK/TIG 4% (new),
OTH 4% (-4).
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22049 on: April 27, 2019, 04:51:02 pm »
Survation.
‏ @Survation

NEW: UK European Parliament Voting Intention (changes vs EP election ’14) from 1,999 interviewed adults aged 18+, April 17th-25th.

CON 16% (-7),
LAB 27% (+2),
LD 8% (+1),
UKIP 7% (-20),
GRN 4% (-4),
SNP 3% (+1),
BXP 27% (new),
CHUK/TIG 4% (new),
OTH 4% (-4).
What utter shite on there..

Worth noting that studies have shown that polls consistently and substantially overstated UKIP (and I would therefore suspect Brexit party votes) because of the unintentional over representation of gammon men on the voting intention groups. 

The highest non racist non Brexit party is the Lib Dem’s on 8% ... depressing.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22050 on: April 27, 2019, 05:08:32 pm »
What utter shite on there..

Worth noting that studies have shown that polls consistently and substantially overstated UKIP (and I would therefore suspect Brexit party votes) because of the unintentional over representation of gammon men on the voting intention groups. 

The highest non racist non Brexit party is the Lib Dem’s on 8% ... depressing.

The UK isnt racist though. So we are told. They dont mind voting for racists.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22051 on: April 27, 2019, 05:11:37 pm »
I've already voted in the local elections last week. For Frome town council I voted for the 2 IFFs the interdependents for Frome they have been in charge for a while now and are doing a great Job they are anti Tory and Anti Austerity.

And for the county council I voted for the 2 Labour members up for election.

And in the EU elections if it goes ahead I will vote Labour.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22052 on: April 27, 2019, 05:12:23 pm »
I've already voted in the local elections last week. For Frome town council I voted for the 2 IFFs the interdependents for Frome they have been in charge for a while now and are doing a great Job they are anti Tory and Anti Austerity.

And for the county council I voted for the 2 Labours members up for election.

And in the EU elections if it goes ahead I will vote Labour.
You’re voting for Brexit then.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22053 on: April 27, 2019, 05:16:20 pm »
You’re voting for Brexit then.

No Im voting for the Labour partys version of Brexit which would be a very soft Brexit or maybe no Brexit at all in the end.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22054 on: April 27, 2019, 05:32:46 pm »
No Im voting for the Labour partys version of Brexit which would be a very soft Brexit or maybe no Brexit at all in the end.
You’re voting for Brexit.

If you were a turkey you’d be turning the oven on and shoving sage an onion up your arse.  What foolishness.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline classycarra

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22055 on: April 27, 2019, 05:52:48 pm »
No Im voting for the Labour partys version of Brexit which would be a very soft Brexit or maybe no Brexit at all in the end.

Sort of contradicting yourself massively there

Offline Wabaloolah

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22056 on: April 27, 2019, 06:11:16 pm »
Corbyn's an idiot, the Tories are finished, yet he appears to be leading the Labour Party in the same direction. Today's failure to guarantee that a Confirmatory Vote would be in the EU Election manifesto is the last straw for me.

What a total fool, he had the next election in the bag if he made the right call, I doubt he wants the responsibility of being PM though, he would then have to start acting like a grown up and making serious decisions that actually do affect people's lives.

Utter buffonery
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Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22057 on: April 27, 2019, 07:33:10 pm »
The UK isnt racist though. So we are told. They dont mind voting for racists.
Some of the UK's best friends are black
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22058 on: April 27, 2019, 07:40:52 pm »
You’re voting for Brexit.

I honestly don't get this logic. To begin with, Brexit is domestic policy, it won't be decided in the European Parliament. Whatever Labour's Brexit policy is, they won't be voting for Brexit in the European Parliament.

Second, Labour MEPs are all remainers (if nothing else, their jobs are at stake ;)). This guy is Leader of the Labour Party in the European Parliament:

https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

This is his Brexit blog:

https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/fun/brexit-comedy/

Offline Libertine

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22059 on: April 27, 2019, 07:50:31 pm »
I honestly don't get this logic. To begin with, Brexit is domestic policy, it won't be decided in the European Parliament. Whatever Labour's Brexit policy is, they won't be voting for Brexit in the European Parliament.

No offence, but this is ridiculous. Every vote Labour gets will be seen by the "leadership" as validation of their pro-Brexit stance, whatever the opinions of the individual MEPs elected or the latest fudge that gets put in their manifesto to fool naive Labour remainers that they're not voting for a slightly more left wing Brexit party.

The only thing that will stop Labour waving through Brexit would be a massive reduction in their vote. But Labour-supporting remainers are too stupid to realise this.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22060 on: April 27, 2019, 07:52:59 pm »
They are not being rewritten and Peston was spreading fake news about a vote no vote happenhed.

You were saying?

Quote
I am told the @UKLabour #EuropeanElections leaflets will be changed to include both a reference to a general election and - in line with policy - there will now be a rederence to a Confirmatory Ballot/referendum to avoid a 'bad tory deal' ie not a referendum on 'any' deal

https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/1122101958398099456

Brexit: Labour to redraft European Parliament election leaflets

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48078468

It's still not a good enough policy.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22061 on: April 27, 2019, 08:01:55 pm »
Quote
Earlier this month 25 Labour backbenchers wrote to Mr Corbyn, urging him to rule one out and arguing it would "be exploited by the far right, damage the trust of many core Labour voters and reduce our chances of winning a general election".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48068207

Quote
Jeremy Corbyn says Labour's ruling body will make a decision on Tuesday about backing a public vote on any deal.

About 100 Labour MPs and MEPs want such a promise in the party manifesto.

They wrote to members of the national executive committee before it meets on Tuesday to decide on the manifesto.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48078468

25 vs 100 (and that's before you bring Labour members and voters into the equation), yet you'd be forgiven for the way some talk about Labour's "split" on a 2nd referendum that it was a 50-50 one.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22062 on: April 27, 2019, 08:06:16 pm »
Labour-supporting remainers are too stupid to realise this.

Thanks for that. That includes not only all Labour MEPs, but most of the PLP, most Labour members, and most Labour voters. In other words, more people than vote for all so-called remain parties put together.

Brexit can't be stopped without Labour. Brexit is the most serious issue facing this country, and we seem to be having serious people seriously suggesting that the next general election will somehow produce a governing coalition formed by Lib Dems, SNP, Greens and ChUK. Back in the real world, if you want to stop Brexit, Labour is your only hope. I won't take your route and start calling people names, but it's about time people realised this.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22063 on: April 27, 2019, 08:08:30 pm »
25 vs 100 (and that's before you bring Labour members and voters into the equation), yet you'd be forgiven for the way some talk about Labour's "split" on a 2nd referendum that it was a 50-50 one.

Exactly. And some would have us believe a vote for Labour is a vote for Brexit.

Offline Libertine

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22064 on: April 27, 2019, 08:24:19 pm »
Brexit can't be stopped without Labour.

Agree with this. But unfortunately the Labour leadership, and by that I mean Seamus Milne, are some of the most anti-EU people in the UK.

So the only way they can be convinced (or more accurately sidelined) to oppose Brexit is if they believe their anti-Brexit stance will cost them a chance of gaining power.

Supporting Labour right now (in European or local elections that you rightly say will not DIRECTLY influence the Brexit voting) will only convince them to carry on as they have been. They need to be scared into doing the right thing.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22065 on: April 27, 2019, 08:29:40 pm »
Supporting Labour right now (in European or local elections that you rightly say will not DIRECTLY influence the Brexit voting) will only convince them to carry on as they have been. They need to be scared into doing the right thing.

Putting aside their electioneering via sitting on the fence, what they have been doing is blocking Brexit at every step of the way, ensuring two extensions already, and bringing about a massive split in the Tory party as a nice bonus. If they carry on doing that, fine by me. It'll inevitably lead to a second referendum eventually.

As I've said before, if they were desperate for Brexit, they'd have found a compromise deal with May long ago.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22066 on: April 27, 2019, 08:34:22 pm »
Exactly. And some would have us believe a vote for Labour is a vote for Brexit.

which I think is a fair stance to take until at least Labour commit to supporting a referendum with Remain as a option on any Brexit deal.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22067 on: April 27, 2019, 08:37:46 pm »
Putting aside their electioneering via sitting on the fence, what they have been doing is blocking Brexit at every step of the way, ensuring two extensions already, and bringing about a massive split in the Tory party as a nice bonus. If they carry on doing that, fine by me. It'll inevitably lead to a second referendum eventually.

As I've said before, if they were desperate for Brexit, they'd have found a compromise deal with May long ago.

That's too simplistic a view. They could still be desperate for Brexit but don't want to be seen as such, for fear of alienating their pro-Remain supporters.

Supporters of the leadership were willing to accept a similar theory that suggested it was wise that Corbyn and co weren't too explicitly pro-2nd referendum/Remain because it would piss off the "heartlands"
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 09:01:49 pm by ShakaHislop »

Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22068 on: April 27, 2019, 08:39:04 pm »
Thanks for that. That includes not only all Labour MEPs, but most of the PLP, most Labour members, and most Labour voters. In other words, more people than vote for all so-called remain parties put together.

Brexit can't be stopped without Labour. Brexit is the most serious issue facing this country, and we seem to be having serious people seriously suggesting that the next general election will somehow produce a governing coalition formed by Lib Dems, SNP, Greens and ChUK. Back in the real world, if you want to stop Brexit, Labour is your only hope. I won't take your route and start calling people names, but it's about time people realised this.
Yes, generally you are right about this. There's a little too much pie-in-the-sky thinking going on about other parties suddenly getting massive support and becoming kingmakers, or a desertion of Labour by the masses or politics changing dramatically. In, as you say, the real world, politics in this country is almost certainly going to remain Labour v Tory.

It's sort of understandable; so many, including me, are furious at Labour for the Brexit betrayal, and want to hit out at the party; we can't help indulging in revenge fantasies in which the Labour Party gets decimated and Corbyn and Milne get hoofed out in disgrace, and the Party comes crawling back to its natural broad-church base and formulates an approach and direction and a set of policies that are pragmatic but which also seek to help those worst off, all while becoming staunchly pro-Remain/pro-EU.

It's an attractive thought, but we have to remain clear-headed about this. The Tories are the enemy above all, and a Tory defeat is the sine qua non for any hope of genuinely making this country a better place. And that means, as ever, actively voting to defeat the Tories, not to act out our angry fantasies. And unless things change dramatically in the UK, that's probably going to involve gritting ones teeth and voting Labour and not wasting votes in ways that help the Tories. As much as it might hurt to do so.

However, these Euro Elections are a special case and one has to consider what the best outcome would be to try and foster Remain - either via revocation or a PV. Some of the other voices here are right in that unless Labour run on a more pro-Remain stance, than votes for them will be cast by the leadership as pro Labour Brexit or 'jobs first Brexit' or whatever they are calling it this week.

In these Euros we have to somehow show that Remain has the most support over any sophistry that Corbyn/Milne are attempting, and, of course, over the Leave parties.

It won't be easy; it might not even be doable. But we have to try.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22069 on: April 27, 2019, 09:07:33 pm »
However, these Euro Elections are a special case and one has to consider what the best outcome would be to try and foster Remain - either via revocation or a PV.

I have no issue with that, it's a PR vote (though not ideal, due to the small number of elected MEPs), and I have no problem with anyone voting Lib Dem, Green, ChUK, SNP, PC or whatever. If we had PR in general elections (which I'm in favour of), I would equally have no problem with anyone voting whatever left or centre-left party they chose.

I only got involved in this discussion to question the assertion that if you vote Labour (in any election), you're voting for Brexit (and you're stupid). I think it's wrong on both counts.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22070 on: April 27, 2019, 09:26:06 pm »
I have no issue with that, it's a PR vote (though not ideal, due to the small number of elected MEPs), and I have no problem with anyone voting Lib Dem, Green, ChUK, SNP, PC or whatever. If we had PR in general elections (which I'm in favour of), I would equally have no problem with anyone voting whatever left or centre-left party they chose.

I only got involved in this discussion to question the assertion that if you vote Labour (in any election), you're voting for Brexit (and you're stupid). I think it's wrong on both counts.
You’re wrong.  They will run with a manifesto that includes delivering Brexit.

When you vote for that, you give them a democratic mandate to support that manifesto.  You are literally electing them on the back of that promise.  I know lots of parties don’t honour their manifestos, but when labour try and push for Brexit again, they will use the mandate from the european elections to support this.

Your mandate.

Not mine though.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22071 on: April 27, 2019, 09:27:46 pm »
I have no issue with that, it's a PR vote (though not ideal, due to the small number of elected MEPs), and I have no problem with anyone voting Lib Dem, Green, ChUK, SNP, PC or whatever. If we had PR in general elections (which I'm in favour of), I would equally have no problem with anyone voting whatever left or centre-left party they chose.

I only got involved in this discussion to question the assertion that if you vote Labour (in any election), you're voting for Brexit (and you're stupid). I think it's wrong on both counts.

Get the leadership to commit to a second referendum including Remain, or get rid of the Brexit-supporting leadership and get one in that supports a second referendum including Remain, and there will be no caveats about voting Labour. I decided to stop voting Labour on the morning of the referendum result when Corbyn was the first politician to call for the immediate invoking of article 50, putting him ahead of the leaders of Leave and the ERG. If he is this enthusiastic about Brexit (and don't quote a non-existent study to justify his actions), then he commits Labour to a course that is detrimental to the ideals that I feel the left should pursue. He supports making the lives of those less well off worse. On that fundamental point, no matter what kind of tribalism you try to whip up with accusations of Tory support, he fails the most basic tenet of the left.
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22072 on: April 27, 2019, 09:44:45 pm »
Thanks for that. That includes not only all Labour MEPs, but most of the PLP, most Labour members, and most Labour voters. In other words, more people than vote for all so-called remain parties put together.

Brexit can't be stopped without Labour. Brexit is the most serious issue facing this country, and we seem to be having serious people seriously suggesting that the next general election will somehow produce a governing coalition formed by Lib Dems, SNP, Greens and ChUK. Back in the real world, if you want to stop Brexit, Labour is your only hope. I won't take your route and start calling people names, but it's about time people realised this.

It's not. It is a complete inconvenience distracting focus away from what is the most serious issue facing this country and every other country.

I actually agree with you regarding the rest of your post - of parties likely to be in government Labour is the only one with a willingness to be transformational enough to even begin to tackle that. However, I don't think Labour are doing any clever politicking by continuing to sit on the fence over Brexit. This EU election will be construed as some kind of Brexit mandate one way or the other.

Offline Yosser0_0

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22073 on: April 27, 2019, 10:55:07 pm »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48078468

25 vs 100 (and that's before you bring Labour members and voters into the equation), yet you'd be forgiven for the way some talk about Labour's "split" on a 2nd referendum that it was a 50-50 one.

That quote from Corbyn there:-

Asked if the promise of a public confirmatory vote would be in election material, he added: "It's important that the party, which is a democratic party structure, makes those decisions. Sadly, or perhaps it's a good thing, I'm not a dictator of the Labour Party."

Especially the last sentence, I mean what the fuck does that actually mean? Complete and utter Bellend.
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Offline Skeeve

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22074 on: April 27, 2019, 11:17:41 pm »
Thanks for that. That includes not only all Labour MEPs, but most of the PLP, most Labour members, and most Labour voters. In other words, more people than vote for all so-called remain parties put together.

Brexit can't be stopped without Labour. Brexit is the most serious issue facing this country, and we seem to be having serious people seriously suggesting that the next general election will somehow produce a governing coalition formed by Lib Dems, SNP, Greens and ChUK. Back in the real world, if you want to stop Brexit, Labour is your only hope. I won't take your route and start calling people names, but it's about time people realised this.

If Brexit can't be stopped without Labour then we are utterly fucked because under Corbyn, they don't actually want to stop it, they just want to avoid being blamed for it so that they can swoop in and nick an election amongst the ruins of a post-brexit UK.

Offline BobOnATank

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22075 on: April 27, 2019, 11:49:42 pm »
No Im voting for the Labour partys version of Brexit which would be a very soft Brexit or maybe no Brexit at all in the end.

Do you not know that a very soft or soft brexit is not possible unless you expect the UK to be a fully paid up member of the EU club but with no say in rules and regulation. Its as much as a nonsense as a hard brexit being a good thing. ALL VERSIONS OF BREXIT ARE SHIT.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22076 on: April 28, 2019, 12:02:55 am »
Do you not know that a very soft or soft brexit is not possible unless you expect the UK to be a fully paid up member of the EU club but with no say in rules and regulation. Its as much as a nonsense as a hard brexit being a good thing. ALL VERSIONS OF BREXIT ARE SHIT.
Yep and ive still not heard how Labour will solve the Irish border problem.
I see Corbyns saying he's no dictator, only following party policy guv.
Labour policy was for a GE, if no GE then support another referendum, why hasn't Corbyn been demanding another referendum now.
Nobody can deliver a successful Brexit that protects jobs and the economy. it was irresponsible and stupid to claim Labour could. it was irresponsible to argue Brexit should still procede even if we know it will end in economic disaster. this countries future looks bleak right now, all down to our 2 main parties being run by fools and Charlatans.

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Offline Skeeve

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22077 on: April 28, 2019, 12:16:42 am »
Do you not know that a very soft or soft brexit is not possible unless you expect the UK to be a fully paid up member of the EU club but with no say in rules and regulation. Its as much as a nonsense as a hard brexit being a good thing. ALL VERSIONS OF BREXIT ARE SHIT.

In some ways I think a soft brexit might actually be worse, it will still harm the country greatly, won't satisfy the brexstards so they won't fuck off and won't be harsh enough for the majority to cry out for us to rejoin the EU either.

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22078 on: April 28, 2019, 12:34:58 am »
They are not being rewritten and Peston was spreading fake news about a vote no vote happenhed.






Quote
Brexit: Labour to redraft European Parliament election leaflets


Labour is redrafting European election leaflets after accusations of ignoring a pledge to hold a further Brexit referendum, the BBC has been told.

They will now refer to the party's preparations for a general election, with a referendum if necessary to avoid what it calls a "bad Tory deal".

Jeremy Corbyn says Labour's ruling body will make a decision on Tuesday about backing a public vote on any deal.

About 100 Labour MPs and MEPs want such a promise in the party manifesto.

They wrote to members of the national executive committee before it meets on Tuesday to decide on the manifesto.

Shadow Treasury ministers Clive Lewis and Anneliese Dodds and shadow minister for the disabled Marsha de Cordova are among the frontbenchers backing the call for a confirmatory vote in any eventuality - not just to avoid a "bad deal".

Some Labour MPs are opposed to holding another EU referendum, however, with nine shadow cabinet members thought to be sceptical about such a move.

It had previously been reported that Labour's leaflets for the 23 May European Parliament elections do not mention pushing for another referendum.

Senior Labour backbencher Hilary Benn had questioned why no mention was made of a "confirmatory referendum" - despite the party twice supporting one in Commons votes.

The party's deputy leader Tom Watson has also argued for Labour to promise another referendum, if it is to counter the electoral challenge posed by Nigel Frottage and his Brexit Party.


Quote
iain watson
✔@iainjwatson

I am told the @UKLabour #EuropeanElections leaflets will be changed to include both a reference to a general election and - in line with policy - there will now be a rederence to a Confirmatory Ballot/referendum to avoid a 'bad tory deal' ie not a referendum on 'any' deal
12:35 PM - Apr 27, 2019


Labour agreed a policy at its last conference that if Parliament voted down the government's deal or talks end in no deal, there should be a general election.

But if it cannot force one, it added, the party "must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote".

Mr Corbyn said on Saturday: "The national executive will decide on Tuesday what will be in the European election manifesto and we will reflect the decisions made (at) last year's Labour Party conference - which were for a customs union, market access and rights protection within, with, the European Union.

"We would prefer to have a general election, but failing that if we get that agreement we are prepared to consider putting it to a confirmatory vote. That is a decision the national executive of the party will make."

Asked if the promise of a public confirmatory vote would be in election material, he added: "It's important that the party, which is a democratic party structure, makes those decisions. Sadly, or perhaps it's a good thing, I'm not a dictator of the Labour Party."


Analysis by Iain Watson, BBC political correspondent


When some of Labour's early European election literature was leaked, it provoked an internal row at a senior level.

Why? Because it made no mention of another referendum.

A letter from almost 100 MPs and MEPs calling for one has put additional pressure on the leadership.

With the agreement of a senior official in Jeremy Corbyn's office, the campaign literature is now to be rewritten.

There will be a mention of a confirmatory ballot/public vote (translation: a referendum) but only to avoid "a bad Tory deal".

This won't go far enough for those MPs calling for a referendum on any deal. That is, even if Mr Corbyn reaches agreement on a "soft" Brexit with Theresa May, a chunk of his Parliamentary party still want another referendum.

The issue will be hammered out when the ruling national executive meets on Tuesday to decide the manifesto for the European elections.

Some members will argue for no referendum, some will argue for one but with caveats, and others will press for a public vote under all circumstances.

Maybe the printing presses should be mothballed until Wednesday.

A letter, signed by some Labour MPs and MEPs, said: "Our members need to feel supported on doorsteps by a clear manifesto that marks us out as the only viable alternative to Nigel Frottage's Brexit Party.

"We need a message of hope and solidarity, and we need to campaign for it without caveats. To motivate our supporters, and to do the right thing by our members and our policy, a clear commitment to a confirmatory public vote on any Brexit deal must be part of our European election manifesto.

"We understand the many different pressures and views within our movement, but without this clear commitment, we fear that our electoral coalition could fall apart."


'Final sign-off'

Richard Corbett, leader of Labour's MEPs and a member of the NEC, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The problem we face now is that Brexit is turning out to be so different from what was promised three years ago.

"Remember they said it would be easy - it's turning out to be rather complex. They said it would save loads of money that would all go to the NHS - it's turning out to be costly.

"They said it would not damage the economy - we are seeing firms move abroad, jobs lost, especially in manufacturing.

"Because it's so different, it's right that it should go back to the people for a final sign-off."
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22079 on: April 28, 2019, 12:44:06 am »
They are a bit different. The Trump followers who are men dont carry backpacks in the sorts of volume the Corbyn lot do. It begs the question why so many men carry backpacks and what is in them.


No they all dress in fly fishing tops and pretend that they're wearing body armour  ;D 

And pack lunches obviously.
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