Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[planet-terror]

Bin it. Ruining the fun of the goals.
Would rather have a bit of human error than this all the time.

[cornishscouser92]

Bin it. Ruining the fun of the goals.
Would rather have a bit of human error than this all the time.

It's good. Bournemouth,Villa, Watford benefiting from Var, overruling refereeing mistakes. Keep VAR but continue to improve

[swoopy]

Bin it. Ruining the fun of the goals.
Would rather have a bit of human error than this all the time.

Until Liverpool get screwed over by an assistant missing a clear offside, then you'd want it back.

[rob1966]

Bin it. Ruining the fun of the goals.
Would rather have a bit of human error than this all the time.

They need to work on it, taking far too long to make decisions, but fuck the human error shit right off. VAR meant we played Spurs and not City in Madrid and I know which one I preferred.

[planet-terror]

Until Liverpool get screwed over by an assistant missing a clear offside, then you'd want it back.

No I wouldn't. Prefer the old way. Without sounding archaic. How are match day goers in future years going to know what's what. Sucking the fun out of it a bit. But then again I'm going through a lot. In life [emoji4][emoji4].

[Jake]

Klopp said today he doesn't celebrate goals any more

VAR is for anti-fun boring c*nts

[slotmachine]

Why wasnt that Mane handball in the first half checked? It looked like it was the Watford player's arm that's why Mane was going off is tits when the ref gave the free-kick to Watford for a Mane handball

[decosabute]

The 2-0 goal yesterday was the first time it's reached the point for me where I haven't celebrated a goal cos I was convinced some bullshit reason would be found to disallow it. They did their best as well, and I'd argue that if they hadn't already disallowed Mane's in dubious circumstances, Salah's one would've been chalked off.

As someone who was pro VAR originally, I can now firmly say I think the current implementation of it is ruining the game.

[Statto Red]

Why wasnt that Mane handball in the first half checked? It looked like it was the Watford player's arm that's why Mane was going off is tits when the ref gave the free-kick to Watford for a Mane handball

Most likely because the fat fuck that is Jon Moss was the VAR ref.

[gerrardisgod]

Only just seen it on MOTD, for the second, why where they taking the line of the defender from the player Mo nutmegs? There was a player (Cathcart I think) right on the byline, after attempting to block Mane’s cross.

[decosabute]

Also saw a fella on the match thread mention Chelsea's disallowed goal against us earlier in the season as a solitary example to demonstrate "things balancing out over the course of the season". Sorry, but that's complete bollocks. We might've got the rub of the green on that one instance, but look at how many bullshit VAR interventions or non-interventions have cost us.

In addition to Mane's goal yesterday, we've had:

- Firmino perfectly good goal disallowed for nonsense offside vs Aston Villa
- Matip absolutely clear penalty not given vs Newcastle
- Mane clear penalty not given vs Sheff Utd
- Man United goal given despite clear foul on Origi
- Napoli dive given as penalty in the away game
- Napoli goal given despite clear foul on Virgil

And that's just off the top of my head. Perhaps that same fella or others who think "it all balances out" would like to give examples of it going for us to balance these out?

[rob1966]

Only just seen it on MOTD, for the second, why where they taking the line of the defender from the player Mo nutmegs? There was a player (Cathcart I think) right on the byline, after attempting to block Mane’s cross.

Its because the rule states you are offside based on the second to last opponent, which is not necessarily the keeper. Both Mo and the defender were nearer to the goal than Foster, so that was why they checked. I remember a Beardsley goal getting chalked off due to the same situation, which is why I remember it.

[gerrardisgod]

Ah, yes, didn’t even think to check the position of the keeper. Just assumed he was on his line (time wasting, probably).

[phonic]

I like VAR and I think the game needs it - look at the Bournemouth goal yesterday, he was well onside and that would've been an absolute howler. I do think it needs to be improved though; I think they need to introduce an 'umpire's call' type element to VAR where the linesman signals whether they believe it is on or off and the game continues. Then the on-field decision is checked. I can't stand this thing of the linesman not flagging and then leaving it to VAR to check - blatant offsides are getting missed, defenders clear the ball for a corner/throw/back to the other team so there's no check and it's giving an advantage to the attacking team when the defending team should have a free kick. At least with the linesman making the initial decision you know the decision making remains on the pitch. Having the umpire's call element also rules out these pedantic decisions like Mane and Bobby (I'm sure there are others from other teams too - but they're the ones that stick with me).

[redgriffin73]

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/3929823/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Liverpool the only team in the league with a net VAR score of 0.

Same number of decisions in favour as against (@DaleJohnsonESPN)

[rob1966]

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/3929823/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Liverpool the only team in the league with a net VAR score of 0.

Same number of decisions in favour as against (@DaleJohnsonESPN)

Won't hear much of that, doesn't fit the LiVARpool narrative.

[Romford_Red]

I think the Prem could take a leaf out of the NFL's book about VAR.

I know technically offside is offside, but there are good arguments about millimeters and when the ball is played.

I think they should remove the VAR offside line and just do it on looking at the replay. If it's not clear and obvious then the ruling on the field stands. They will still get some wrong, but that is just part of the game. It always was.

[Yosser0_0]

Won't hear much of that, doesn't fit the LiVARpool narrative.

I was talking to an Everton and a United fan after the derby game and they were devastated that Everton hadn't been awarded a penalty and a sending off for Van Dijk because at it could have been 'crucial' given the scoreline at the time. I disagreed but the United fan said 'even the commentators said it was' as if that validates his argument, I said to him, come on it wouldn't have made any difference because Everton are fucking shite. Everton fan pipes up and says 'well I don't think Liverpool are that good and you can get at them' and I did concede that Liverpool do give the opposition a chance in order to make the game more exciting which I actually prefer.
 

Realising that I was starting to flog a dead horse at that point, I just said 'anyway we are upto 27 now', 'what?' they reply, 'Yes Liverpool have now been given 27 points this season by VAR'. The look of bewilderment on their faces was a picture to behold!

Desperate, desperate people!
   

 

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I'm still saying offside should be based purely on where the feet are. It reduces the margin for error because there is no looking for a centre of gravity and it will be easier for everyone to see/understand because the lines will be cutting across where the feet are.

I also just think its fairer. Most of the time, forwards are moving forward when the ball is played so they are also likely to be leaning closer to the goal, whilst defenders can be moving out and are going to be leaning away from the goal. This means the defenders are more likely to get an advantage, despite generally being 'level'.

[jackh]

I think the Prem could take a leaf out of the NFL's book about VAR.

I know technically offside is offside, but there are good arguments about millimeters and when the ball is played.

I think they should remove the VAR offside line and just do it on looking at the replay. If it's not clear and obvious then the ruling on the field stands. They will still get some wrong, but that is just part of the game. It always was.

The application of the rule being dependent on a straight line running at 90 degrees to the touchlines has always seemed daft to me too.  In theory, the positioning of a sole defensive player on either touchline could impact whenever or not an attacking player in the very centre of the pitch is onside or offside, despite there being no other way of impacting the play.  If the rule is to prevent goal-hanging, then it should actually be applied using a half-circular 'zone' that expands out from nothing on the goal line - clearly that's impossible in anything other than virtual reality though, and would be impossible for defenders to organise.

Decisions like that one on Saturday seem to far exceed 'the point' of the rule.

[rob1966]

I'm still saying offside should be based purely on where the feet are. It reduces the margin for error because there is no looking for a centre of gravity and it will be easier for everyone to see/understand because the lines will be cutting across where the feet are.

I also just think its fairer. Most of the time, forwards are moving forward when the ball is played so they are also likely to be leaning closer to the goal, whilst defenders can be moving out and are going to be leaning away from the goal. This means the defenders are more likely to get an advantage, despite generally being 'level'.

It is ridiculous. Dalglish would be off a lot because he had a fat arse, In a womans game my missus would be offside a lot more than other women by virtue of having huge tits, Ian Rush would be off because of the size of his dick.

Would be funny as fuck seeing a goal disallowed because of the size of a forwards package though

[vicar]

But they're still not 100% sure they're looking at the freeze frame, from the exact moment the ball is played by the would be assist provider. Until they can be sure of that, then these marginal decisions will continue to be highly questionable.

Completely agree. When the frame is frozen is often overlooked but pivotal in determining offside. That plus that fact that the software evidently calculates the position of things like armpits from where the feet touch the ground. Would love to know what the margin of error is. I bet its larger than some of the distances given offside.

[Romford_Red]

The application of the rule being dependent on a straight line running at 90 degrees to the touchlines has always seemed daft to me too.  In theory, the positioning of a sole defensive player on either touchline could impact whenever or not an attacking player in the very centre of the pitch is onside or offside, despite there being no other way of impacting the play.  If the rule is to prevent goal-hanging, then it should actually be applied using a half-circular 'zone' that expands out from nothing on the goal line - clearly that's impossible in anything other than virtual reality though, and would be impossible for defenders to organise.

Decisions like that one on Saturday seem to far exceed 'the point' of the rule.

I think that though is covered with the 'not interfering with play' aspect of offside.

[eddymunster]

No matter how much VAR delays the game, makes a meal of the tightest calls etc, the alternative is decisions like the Sterling offside vs City under Rodgers.

VAR has to stay.

[Jake]

Offside should be feet only. Lean wherever you want, just don't stand offisde.

Simple.

And bin off VAR. When the manager darent even celebrate due to the shit that is VAR, it's time to go.

[Romford_Red]

No matter how much VAR delays the game, makes a meal of the tightest calls etc, the alternative is decisions like the Sterling offside vs City under Rodgers.

VAR has to stay.

The thing I don't get about the monitors...

The reason given for not using them is the time it would take. For me that doesn't make any sense.
Some decisions either take seconds or happen passively whilst play continues. This should remain the same. However if the incident is more complex and demands greater study, the play is halted and everyone waits. This normally lasts at least 30-60 seconds.

When that happens, how long will it take the ref to jog over to the touchline? 10 seconds? 20 seconds? The VAR guys can do their stuff, get all of the angles ready and then when the ref gets to the monitor they show him the best angles and explain anything they need to. Decision is then made by the ref.

Also, why does the monitor look like Holly's mobile get up from Red Dwarf? Why can't we use a tablet? Could then the 4th official run the tablet on to the ref? Of someone else?

Basically I just don't buy the excuse for not having the onfield ref look at a monitor.

[Yosser0_0]

Offside should be feet only. Lean wherever you want, just don't stand offisde.

Simple.

And bin off VAR. When the manager darent even celebrate due to the shit that is VAR, it's time to go.

I agree.

[4pool]

If play is stopped for a  VAR review...instead of the match Ref stood in the middle of the pitch with his finger to his ear, he should go to the monitor and review the play with the VAR official.

The time of the stoppage would be the same. Who knows maybe shorter.

This way the match Ref would also be seen to giving the correct decision instead of relying on someone else for the information.

[rob1966]

If play is stopped for a  VAR review...instead of the match Ref stood in the middle of the pitch with his finger to his ear, he should go to the monitor and review the play with the VAR official.

The time of the stoppage would be the same. Who knows maybe shorter.

This way the match Ref would also be seen to giving the correct decision instead of relying on someone else for the information.

I really do not get why the Premier League officials think the way they are doing it is quicker. Last week, A Taylor shits out of giving a clear pen in the Manc Derby and stands there waiting for VAR - midweek in the CL, he again shits out of giving a pen, but this time runs over and reviews on the pitchside monitor. In both cases, one or two replays were enough to see they were both pens.

[wenlock]

Offside should be feet only. Lean wherever you want, just don't stand offisde.

Simple.

And bin off VAR. When the manager darent even celebrate due to the shit that is VAR, it's time to go.

What would happen with diving headers?

[rob1966]

What would happen with diving headers?

[Roger Federer]

But they're still not 100% sure they're looking at the freeze frame, from the exact moment the ball is played by the would be assist provider. Until they can be sure of that, then these marginal decisions will continue to be highly questionable.

Completely agree. When the frame is frozen is often overlooked but pivotal in determining offside. That plus that fact that the software evidently calculates the position of things like armpits from where the feet touch the ground. Would love to know what the margin of error is. I bet its larger than some of the distances given offside.

According to this: https://www.givemesport.com/1498162-there-are-flaws-in-var-that-mean-not-every-offside-decision-will-be-correct

the margin of error can be as much as 38 centimeters, that is almost half a yard. That is only considering the margin of error when the ball is played too, how exactly they determine where Firmino's shoulder is in relation to the defenders feet (or knee I think it was) I don't know, but you'd assume that makes the margin of error greater overall. With that in mind I think some of the decisions are absolutely silly. It's obviously impossible to say that Sterling was 2.4 centimeters off.

[rob1966]

According to this: https://www.givemesport.com/1498162-there-are-flaws-in-var-that-mean-not-every-offside-decision-will-be-correct

the margin of error can be as much as 38 centimeters, that is almost half a yard. That is only considering the margin of error when the ball is played too, how exactly they determine where Firmino's shoulder is in relation to the defenders feet (or knee I think it was) I don't know, but you'd assume that makes the margin of error greater overall. With that in mind I think some of the decisions are absolutely silly. It's obviously impossible to say that Sterling was 2.4 centimeters off.

38 centimetres is not in any way an acceptable margin of error.

This pic makes me laugh, fuck Sterlings shoulder, how the hell is Jesus NOT interfering with play? 

[Zeppelin]

Ignoring Jesus, the defender is approximately square on to the penalty area, but Stirling is at an angle, yet the VAR lines seem to assume that Stirling is a 2D figure when drawing the line (I hope that makes sense). Also, at what point does the shoulder begin? Looking at the thickness of the VAR lines, you could just as easily draw the lines starting at a different place and show Sterling as onside. Given the margin of error mentioned in the linked article, these marginal offside decisions are a complete farce.

[rob1966]

Ignoring Jesus, the defender is approximately square on to the penalty area, but Stirling is at an angle, yet the VAR lines seem to assume that Stirling is a 2D figure when drawing the line (I hope that makes sense). Also, at what point does the shoulder begin? Looking at the thickness of the VAR lines, you could just as easily draw the lines starting at a different place and show Sterling as onside. Given the margin of error mentioned in the linked article, these marginal offside decisions are a complete farce.

The thick lines are for TV, Hawkeye use very thin lines.

I posted a video where FIFA were testing the system and the accuracy of the vertical lines was fine, but like you say, how can you work out where his shoulder is. What if he is wearing a baggy shirt that gives the illusion his shoulder is wider than it really is?

The law states that ANY part can be called offside, they need to change this, as otherwise VAR is correct in going to these levels even though it is stupid.

[Roblaar]

Surely its just too technical a process for the limitations it has on timing and position.

An alternative is just give the VAR team 10secs to review.  If it's obviously wrong overturn the decision, if not don't and stick with the on field linesman's decision.  Sometimes they will still be wrong, but not terribly.  I would've ruled out the Mane one at the weekend based on the quick review.

It should omit the howlers without destroying the celebration as you can normally sense if the attacker is close to offside.

[4pool]

Ref's microphoned... here's how it might sound

https://twitter.com/uponthebluemoon/status/1205802376734691329?s=21

[rob1966]

Ref's microphoned... here's how it might sound

https://twitter.com/uponthebluemoon/status/1205802376734691329?s=21

Anthony Taylor in the tunnel at Anfield "Fucking scouse bastards, i'm giving these fuck all today"

VAR - Erm, Anthony, the mike is on.....................................

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Checking to see if a clear foul was inside or outside the box.. and deciding that it wasn't a foul.

What the fuck was that all about?!

The right decision was to reverse the penalty decision and the yellow card, and to award a free-kick and give a red card.

[PaulF]

Like a lot of occasions in the game I didn't even see anything I'd count as contact. Had a ref for local leagues in the house , a united fan at that and he saw one of the tackles we got booked for and said he would not have even given it as a foul.