Author Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General  (Read 1339351 times)

Offline Ratboy3G

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5560 on: December 4, 2019, 11:38:03 pm »
In our favour today big time. I think next season as long as they stick with it var will get a lot better

I assumed that it wasn't in use tonight as there were so many missed incidents
I am a man of few words.....any questions?

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5561 on: December 4, 2019, 11:56:18 pm »
I assumed that it wasn't in use tonight as there were so many missed incidents
Atony *ahem* Taylor
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5562 on: December 4, 2019, 11:57:08 pm »
Atony *ahem* Taylor

He was the 4th official, Martin Atkinson was VAR ref.
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Offline Judge Red

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5563 on: December 5, 2019, 12:01:49 am »
TAA 'stamp', VVD pen. Robertson was a bit naughty as well on Davies.

Swings and roundabouts. Next week it could fcuk us over. We have bad decisions against us this season which bar should have cleared up

Is that you Danny Murphy?

Offline farawayred

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5564 on: December 5, 2019, 12:01:51 am »
He was the 4th official, Martin Atkinson was VAR ref.
My bad! I knew that... Just had one too many. :thumbup
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Offline Clayton Bigsby

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5565 on: December 5, 2019, 12:16:46 am »

Is that you Danny Murphy?

Fair enough. You disagree. But as stated it's swings and roundabouts. We've already been negatively affected this season

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5566 on: December 5, 2019, 12:24:01 am »
To be fair when I first saw the Van Dijk tackle I thought it was brilliant. When I saw it on VAR I thought they would defo get a pen. In hindsight I think we got off with one.

Still fucking destroyed them though.

Offline oxenstierna

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5567 on: December 5, 2019, 12:40:53 am »
That VVD challenge could go either way, you see them given. I'd actually say its a pen, so we were a bit lucky there.

On the other hand Mane was also fouled in the box first half and held by both Pickford and Holgate when he was through in the second. VVD manhandled in their box. Theres loads of these situations every game when put under the microscope. No one seems to care about that though because it doesnt create discussion or because it corrects their narrative.

Also seen claims for a Trent send off. If its for the stamp then Richarlison should be off too. If its for the stamp + handball in second its inconsistency from Dean as Iwobi and Digne was blown for handballs without being booked in the first half. Pundits and other fans only see the situations that benefit us.

Offline farawayred

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5568 on: December 5, 2019, 04:52:10 am »
To be fair when I first saw the Van Dijk tackle I thought it was brilliant. When I saw it on VAR I thought they would defo get a pen. In hindsight I think we got off with one.

Still fucking destroyed them though.
To be fair, Mike Dean didn't call identical altercations against us earlier by Mina and Davis. Had he called that for a penalty, it would have been a major double standard. Which is not unheard of, but still...
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5569 on: December 5, 2019, 06:42:35 am »
Mate if you didn’t know like many other don’t here this fellas under cover

Go and have a look st him in motd thread now and then basically his entire portfolio of posts



Pack it in.
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Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5570 on: December 5, 2019, 06:45:43 am »
The fume from others about the possible VVD peno is hilarious. Like MOTD zero about the fact not one but two players foul Virgil in their box in what should have been a peno for us.  :wanker
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5571 on: December 5, 2019, 06:53:42 am »
He was the 4th official, Martin Atkinson was VAR ref.

you read that and just think "theres the problem right there" Even worse, I bet Atkinson was on the Christmas sherry  ::) ::) ::)
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Offline gamble

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5572 on: December 6, 2019, 11:38:36 am »
Saw Newcastle's second goal yesterday and do understand chris wilder's frustration. Players do need to play to the whistle but the lino should never have raised his flag. you have to virtually ignore the lino when playing now.

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5573 on: December 6, 2019, 11:39:14 am »
Saw Newcastle's second goal yesterday and do understand chris wilder's frustration. Players do need to play to the whistle but the lino should never have raised his flag. you have to virtually ignore the lino when playing now.

They probably should anyway, as it's the referee that makes the final decision.
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5574 on: December 6, 2019, 11:49:09 am »
They probably should anyway, as it's the referee that makes the final decision.

Fat Head praised his players, especially Shelvey, for playing to the whistle.

This is still the best example of play to the whistle ;D

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Offline Statto Red

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5575 on: December 6, 2019, 11:50:31 am »
Saw Newcastle's second goal yesterday and do understand chris wilder's frustration. Players do need to play to the whistle but the lino should never have raised his flag. you have to virtually ignore the lino when playing now.

Play to the whistle has always been installed in you from when you first play the game, Sheffield United players just stopped when the lino raised his flag, Shelvey rightly carried on, & it wasn't offside in the first place, Carroll was just onside.

I believe the refs have been instructed to let play go on if the lino raises his flag, & let VAR sort it out should the player put the ball into the net, apparently players & coaches/managers have been told this as well.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5576 on: December 6, 2019, 12:11:45 pm »
Fat Head praised his players, especially Shelvey, for playing to the whistle.

This is still the best example of play to the whistle ;D



Was great that still went in, cos Barthez was playing to the whistle and ready to save but tried to pull a fast one

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5577 on: December 6, 2019, 12:13:25 pm »
Saw Newcastle's second goal yesterday and do understand chris wilder's frustration. Players do need to play to the whistle but the lino should never have raised his flag. you have to virtually ignore the lino when playing now.

Since there's already a commitment not to care about matchgoing fans, it's hilarious that they haven't wised up to this and just made the offside signal a verbal thing or a button press from the linesperson to inform the ref and then they can decide to whistle or play on and whistle after a time or just play on.

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5578 on: December 6, 2019, 12:39:01 pm »
Play to the whistle has always been installed in you from when you first play the game, Sheffield United players just stopped when the lino raised his flag, Shelvey rightly carried on, & it wasn't offside in the first place, Carroll was just onside.

I believe the refs have been instructed to let play go on if the lino raises his flag, & let VAR sort it out should the player put the ball into the net, apparently players & coaches/managers have been told this as well.

Thats it, its not VAR's fault it the players not carrying on when they know full well they should.

From about 8yrs old we were constantly told play to the refs whistle.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5579 on: December 6, 2019, 12:45:20 pm »
Thats it, its not VAR's fault it the players not carrying on when they know full well they should.

From about 8yrs old we were constantly told play to the refs whistle.

Humans respond to visual stimuli. The footballing authorities can't change this. They can mitigate the negative effects, though they're not that bright

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5580 on: December 6, 2019, 06:13:41 pm »
Play to the whistle has always been installed in you from when you first play the game, Sheffield United players just stopped when the lino raised his flag, Shelvey rightly carried on, & it wasn't offside in the first place, Carroll was just onside.

I believe the refs have been instructed to let play go on if the lino raises his flag, & let VAR sort it out should the player put the ball into the net, apparently players & coaches/managers have been told this as well.
Pre- VAR, the offside flag being raised [rightly or wrongly] was usually a pretty conclusive event and few [if any] referees would override their linesmen. Now however, that flag is simply an indicator, a suggestion or a recommendation, and referees can afford to ignore it and let VAR sort out that phase of play if it continues. Sheffield UTD were extremely naive to take their lead off the linesman's flag last night because the flag itself has NEVER been solidly conclusive, it's just always seemed that way due to referee solidarity with their linesmen, through "good" decisions or "bad."

Now however, attackers who continue to play on and who get goals in doing so will likely force VAR to take a look.... and this may become the case even if the referee has blown for an offside. If however, this occurs and VAR refuses to intercede, because they simply wish to re-enforce the authority of the ref's whistle, then they'll find themselves having to make a decision.

Are they employing VAR to accurately enforce the laws of the game, or are they using it [or sometimes NOT using it] to protect the referee's authority? If a situation arose where a player continues a phase of play "against" the ref's whistle, would VAR ever validate this, basically saying that in some instances, the whistle itself was wrongly blown?

Or does the ref's whistle trump ALL VAR scrutiny once it's been blown, rendering any player who ignores it as warranting a card?
YNWA

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5581 on: December 6, 2019, 06:35:37 pm »
Humans respond to visual stimuli. The footballing authorities can't change this. They can mitigate the negative effects, though they're not that bright

You are constantly told you keep going until the whistle blows. They shouldn't even be looking at the linesman. Its poor play, how many times, pre VAR down the years have players stood like soft twats with their arms in the air while a forward runs on and scores? Its not VARs fault they stop, its their own stupidity

Pre- VAR, the offside flag being raised [rightly or wrongly] was usually a pretty conclusive event and few [if any] referees would override their linesmen. Now however, that flag is simply an indicator, a suggestion or a recommendation, and referees can afford to ignore it and let VAR sort out that phase of play if it continues. Sheffield UTD were extremely naive to take their lead off the linesman's flag last night because the flag itself has NEVER been solidly conclusive, it's just always seemed that way due to referee solidarity with their linesmen, through "good" decisions or "bad."

Now however, attackers who continue to play on and who get goals in doing so will likely force VAR to take a look.... and this may become the case even if the referee has blown for an offside. If however, this occurs and VAR refuses to intercede, because they simply wish to re-enforce the authority of the ref's whistle, then they'll find themselves having to make a decision.

Are they employing VAR to accurately enforce the laws of the game, or are they using it [or sometimes NOT using it] to protect the referee's authority? If a situation arose where a player continues a phase of play "against" the ref's whistle, would VAR ever validate this, basically saying that in some instances, the whistle itself was wrongly blown?

Or does the ref's whistle trump ALL VAR scrutiny once it's been blown, rendering any player who ignores it as warranting a card?


Maybe it is a bit of a Pavlovs dogs situation, in that the players always associated the flag going up and the whistle then going. At the end of the day though, they are very highly paid professionals, is it really too much to ask of them to actually use their brains and keep on going until they hear the whistle?
« Last Edit: December 6, 2019, 06:37:35 pm by robbed 1966 yorkies from kids' selection boxes »
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Offline 4pool

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5582 on: December 7, 2019, 01:24:43 am »
The Refs whistle will supersede any VAR interpretation after the whistle has blown.

Only a missed Red card offence after a whistle would be reviewed.

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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5583 on: December 8, 2019, 12:57:30 pm »
People are still blind, but with the way Man City get caught by VAR over and over... is there still anyone that believes Man City would've won the title last season with VAR? Sure, I know there's many of you still there. Just making you think about it again. BTW, we would've also won that title with Rafa with VAR. There were some clear and obvious mistakes which favoured the Manchester clubs in those races. Most people have forgotten but when we were ahead of City last season, they went through a patch after that where they were not playing well but getting some lucky decisions to nick some wins. We needed just one or two fair decisions there to make sure our lead was extended and it would have blown away their confidence... instead the decisions gave them reason to believe again.
« Last Edit: December 8, 2019, 01:02:18 pm by SteveZissou »
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5584 on: December 8, 2019, 01:01:41 pm »
Let me give you an example. I am following a top-flight league in another country this season. There's a famous club that hasn't won a trophy in years and last season they were inconsistent in the league. This season they were awarded goals when players were clearly off-side for 3 out of 4 games early on. This gave them a series of wins, and the momentum required to be on top of the table and believe they can have a go. Since then they have not benefitted from bad decisions in their last six games, but they've won most of those and are now firmly on top of the table and are in line of breaking the league record points total. With VAR they would've drawn and lost games earlier in the season, and they wouldn't have the same belief that they could win the league. It's all psychological mates... once a team loses the belief they start to fall apart. Look at Man Utd in recent seasons, or Chelsea after they won the title and got into a hole straight after that. With just a dent to confidence, there's a difference between having the mentality of flying in first spot or struggling to finish 4th.
« Last Edit: December 8, 2019, 01:04:20 pm by SteveZissou »
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5585 on: December 8, 2019, 04:41:06 pm »
No VAR could lose Rangers the scottish cup final, 3 Celtic clearly offside and lineo didn't see it.
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5586 on: December 9, 2019, 09:39:21 am »
Give me human error over Var the way its being implemented at the moment any time

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5587 on: December 11, 2019, 09:13:44 am »
VAR is good. It's good for the overall fairness. Good for the game. It's honestly irritating when people start going OTT whenever there's a fuckup. Mistakes won't just go away. But I suggest they look at the supposed standings without VAR to understand that it's nothing short of a win.

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5588 on: December 11, 2019, 11:55:04 am »
Give me human error over Var the way its being implemented at the moment any time

The implementation in the Premier League is shite, but i'd rather than than to lose a cup final due to a blind linesman

Last night, Anthony Taylor used the monitor to give a penalty, why do the PGMOL not want to use them?. Bit shit that he missed the foul, same as in the manc derby, but at least the correct decisions were reached on review.
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Offline Linudden

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5589 on: December 14, 2019, 02:19:25 pm »
These 1-2 inch offside checks are just dumb.

Get rid.

Unless it's clear enough that the line official should've seen it there's no point.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 02:21:40 pm by Linudden »
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5590 on: December 14, 2019, 02:23:51 pm »
Refs still don't get that you can't score with your fucking armpit
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5591 on: December 14, 2019, 02:34:38 pm »
These 1-2 inch offside checks are just dumb.

Get rid.

Unless it's clear enough that the line official should've seen it there's no point.

Its the fact that the shitty implementation is checking every goal isn't helping, but under the rules Manes hip was offside.
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5592 on: December 14, 2019, 02:37:22 pm »
Its the fact that the shitty implementation is checking every goal isn't helping, but under the rules Manes hip was offside.

VAR should only be used if the whole body is offside. There needs to be a margin of error grantes to the assistant on the pitch. Mistakes happen and there's no perfect world.

The offside rule also should be simplified but that's another discussion. I think only either the position of the furthest front foot or the head should matter. Having to consider all of the body except the arms is just confusing.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 02:40:42 pm by Linudden »
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5593 on: December 14, 2019, 02:39:38 pm »
I swear those lines they draw aren't right angles to the grass. They shouldn't be able to draw them either, the software should automatically do it without human intervention.
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5594 on: December 14, 2019, 02:40:28 pm »
Those offside lines are two dimensional and absolutely useless

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5595 on: December 14, 2019, 02:41:06 pm »
But they're still not 100% sure they're looking at the freeze frame, from the exact moment the ball is played by the would be assist provider. Until they can be sure of that, then these marginal decisions will continue to be highly questionable.
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5596 on: December 14, 2019, 02:43:55 pm »
VAR should only be used if the whole body is offside. There needs to be a margin of error grantes to the assistant on the pitch. Mistakes happen and there's no perfect world.

The offside rule also should be simplified but that's another discussion. I think only either the position of the furthest front foot or the head should matter. Having to consider all of the body except the arms is just confusing.

That is a bit much. That would pretty much be like scrapping VAR because very few of these off sides would not be caught by on field officials.

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5597 on: December 14, 2019, 02:44:52 pm »
VAR should only be used if the whole body is offside. There needs to be a margin of error grantes to the assistant on the pitch. Mistakes happen and there's no perfect world.

The offside rule also should be simplified but that's another discussion. I think only the position of the furthest front foot should matter.

But that doesn't match the rule and to be honest, because of the way the rule is, VAR SHOULD be used as it is too difficult for a lineo to see clearly. There is no margin on error with offside, you are off or you aren't, you can't then allow VAR to be used incorrectly. Manes goal at City was disallowed because 11mm of the ball hadn't crossed the line.

A player is in an offside position if:
any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and
any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent
The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered.
A player is not in an offside position if level with the:
second-last opponent or
last two opponents

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5598 on: December 14, 2019, 02:46:38 pm »
But they're still not 100% sure they're looking at the freeze frame, from the exact moment the ball is played by the would be assist provider. Until they can be sure of that, then these marginal decisions will continue to be highly questionable.

That is a great point - I personally want offside to be clear air between players. Dalglish would be offside where Rushie wasn't cos Kenny had a fat arse.
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5599 on: December 14, 2019, 02:49:45 pm »
That is a bit much. That would pretty much be like scrapping VAR because very few of these off sides would not be caught by on field officials.

Ideally it should. I'm all for goal line technology but someone watching the video from a control tower should have no influence on a football game unless something's visible to the naked eye.

Right now the approach seems to be "give it to the defending team if we can't see".
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 02:53:47 pm by Linudden »
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