Topic: University student looking for dissertation help

[Laaang]

I'm a Criminology student conducting a dissertation at the University of Northampton on the public-police relationship in Merseyside prior to, and following, the Hillsborough disaster.
Essentially I am trying to compare the public's relationship with the police from the early-mid 1980s, with that of today whilst establishing if Hillsborough/media/ has had an impact on this. 

I will be investigating this through voice-recorded 'interviews', although they are semi-structured and fairly informal. For example, two I have conducted so far were in a pub in St. Helens and outside a coffee shop near the Exchange Street East area of Liverpool. The interviews are completely anonymous and take 20-30 minutes. I am looking for two more interviews from people aged over 40.

If anyone is available tomorrow, or you would like any more information, please contact me at:
- samlangley29@gmail.com

Thanks,
Sam.

[Eeyore]

I'm a Criminology student conducting a dissertation at the University of Northampton on the public-police relationship in Merseyside prior to, and following, the Hillsborough disaster.
Essentially I am trying to compare the public's relationship with the police from the early-mid 1980s, with that of today whilst establishing if Hillsborough/media/ has had an impact on this. 

I will be investigating this through voice-recorded 'interviews', although they are semi-structured and fairly informal. For example, two I have conducted so far were in a pub in St. Helens and outside a coffee shop near the Exchange Street East area of Liverpool. The interviews are completely anonymous and take 20-30 minutes. I am looking for two more interviews from people aged over 40.

If anyone is available tomorrow, or you would like any more information, please contact me at:
- samlangley29@gmail.com

Thanks,
Sam.

I would like to take part mate but I am not available tomorrow.

To be honest though I think you should go back further in time. The public's relationship especially the working classes relationship with the Police was changed when Thatcher used the Police to smash the unions. For me Hillsborough like Orgreave was a byproduct of that decision.

Thatchers policies led directly to riots that spanned the working class areas of the country in the early to mid 80's. The worst aspect though was that the Police who were supposed to be neutral became Maggie's storm troopers. As soon as that happened forces like South Yorkshire Police became untouchable and acted with impunity.

[Kop307]

Sounds like a very original bit of work for what I assume is an undergraduate degree. Risky as well. Original work in an undergraduate degree is always a big risk.

[Laaang]

I would like to take part mate but I am not available tomorrow.

To be honest though I think you should go back further in time. The public's relationship especially the working classes relationship with the Police was changed when Thatcher used the Police to smash the unions. For me Hillsborough like Orgreave was a byproduct of that decision.

Thatchers policies led directly to riots that spanned the working class areas of the country in the early to mid 80's. The worst aspect though was that the Police who were supposed to be neutral became Maggie's storm troopers. As soon as that happened forces like South Yorkshire Police became untouchable and acted with impunity.

Thanks for the reply Al.
When would you be available mate, I could meet at the weekend if you're available then?

What you've put there is very interesting and was touched upon in less depth by one of the previous participants. I'd really appreciate a chance to find out more.

Thanks,
Sam

[Laaang]

Sounds like a very original bit of work for what I assume is an undergraduate degree. Risky as well. Original work in an undergraduate degree is always a big risk.

Yeah Kop it was a slight risk to start with becaue of the nature of the topic! But it was actually suggested to me by my tutor last year, on the back of researching Hillsborough for a couple of my assignments and doing well in them.
 It's been rewarding to find out first-hand how the feelings of local people have developed and changed over the years and what they think the future might hold for police/gov/media etc.
Very glad I did take on this topic and have had the chance to meet a few Merseysiders!

[Kop307]

Yeah Kop it was a slight risk to start with becaue of the nature of the topic! But it was actually suggested to me by my tutor last year, on the back of researching Hillsborough for a couple of my assignments and doing well in them.
 It's been rewarding to find out first-hand how the feelings of local people have developed and changed over the years and what they think the future might hold for police/gov/media etc.
Very glad I did take on this topic and have had the chance to meet a few Merseysiders!

Yeah don't get me wrong it's a great thing to write about but having written a disseration myself in sports psychology you need a lot of references, and if you're doing an original piece of work, you may find it hard. My dissertation looked at the relationship between growing up in a low income area/household and the subsequent affect of achieving sporting success coming from that kind of background. There are a lot of stuides regarding education and social class but there's not much around sport & social class. I was very very good at Tennis when I was young but my parents weren't well off, and when I got given free lessons at my local David Lloyd for winning tournaments, they basically laughed my out of the place without giving me (a 12 year old winning 16 year old level tournaments) a chance because I didn't have the right footwear.

I had/have a lot of friends who grew up in very poor areas, who were at academies, and it was focused around their experiences, and how their day to day life in a shithole area helped/hindered their ability to kick on in football. In most cases they failed, and it was a good study but there was pretty much nothing to compare it to, so when it came to analysis of the interviews, I was pretty much fucked. Some ended up in prison, some ended up getting kicked out for their behaviour. One still plays for Stockport County now, but he was at Wigan when I first interviewed him. Had they grown up in Cheshire with rich parents who focused their talent would they now be in the Premier League?

Had I done work on the relationship between music & endurance I'd have had 1,000 studies to compare with, and likely would have got a first. I wanted to do something original that meant somehting to me, and I got royally fucked for it. That's undergraduate degrees.

[Laaang]

Yeah don't get me wrong it's a great thing to write about but having written a disseration myself in sports psychology you need a lot of references, and if you're doing an original piece of work, you may find it hard. My dissertation looked at the relationship between growing up in a low income area/household and the subsequent affect of achieving sporting success coming from that kind of background. There are a lot of stuides regarding education and social class but there's not much around sport & social class. I was very very good at Tennis when I was young but my parents weren't well off, and when I got given free lessons at my local David Lloyd for winning tournaments, they basically laughed my out of the place without giving me (a 12 year old winning 16 year old level tournaments) a chance because I didn't have the right footwear.

I had/have a lot of friends who grew up in very poor areas, who were at academies, and it was focused around their experiences, and how their day to day life in a shithole area helped/hindered their ability to kick on in football. In most cases they failed, and it was a good study but there was pretty much nothing to compare it to, so when it came to analysis of the interviews, I was pretty much fucked. Some ended up in prison, some ended up getting kicked out for their behaviour. One still plays for Stockport County now, but he was at Wigan when I first interviewed him. Had they grown up in Cheshire with rich parents who focused their talent would they now be in the Premier League?

Had I done work on the relationship between music & endurance I'd have had 1,000 studies to compare with, and likely would have got a first. I wanted to do something original that meant somehting to me, and I got royally fucked for it. That's undergraduate degrees.

Yeah I see where you're coming from there. I think I'm fortunate here in the sense that my tutor has given me a bit of leeway almost to go and create a narrative of the story of Merseyside, driven by my own following of LFC. I've reviewed all the literature and stuff on police/public confidence/legitimacy/procedural justice and football fans and the police which will be used to relate back to in my own research findings, but essentially I am developing a narrative of 'YNWA' that extends beyond the football club and is as evident as ever in light of the recent developments with the case.

During one of my interviews 3 days ago Jamie Carragher actually walked past and the interviewee and myself were looking towards him and he said hello, which disrupted the interview. My tutor has suggested that's just another thing I can actually introduce to the dissertation to help create this narrative, rather than tell me I was stupid for being distracted or to crop it out of the hard copy of the interview haha!

[Xabi Gerrard]

Yeah don't get me wrong it's a great thing to write about but having written a disseration myself in sports psychology you need a lot of references, and if you're doing an original piece of work, you may find it hard. My dissertation looked at the relationship between growing up in a low income area/household and the subsequent affect of achieving sporting success coming from that kind of background. There are a lot of stuides regarding education and social class but there's not much around sport & social class. I was very very good at Tennis when I was young but my parents weren't well off, and when I got given free lessons at my local David Lloyd for winning tournaments, they basically laughed my out of the place without giving me (a 12 year old winning 16 year old level tournaments) a chance because I didn't have the right footwear.

I had/have a lot of friends who grew up in very poor areas, who were at academies, and it was focused around their experiences, and how their day to day life in a shithole area helped/hindered their ability to kick on in football. In most cases they failed, and it was a good study but there was pretty much nothing to compare it to, so when it came to analysis of the interviews, I was pretty much fucked. Some ended up in prison, some ended up getting kicked out for their behaviour. One still plays for Stockport County now, but he was at Wigan when I first interviewed him. Had they grown up in Cheshire with rich parents who focused their talent would they now be in the Premier League?

Had I done work on the relationship between music & endurance I'd have had 1,000 studies to compare with, and likely would have got a first. I wanted to do something original that meant somehting to me, and I got royally fucked for it. That's undergraduate degrees.

Sorry to digress away from the OP Laaang (I'm not in the age range so can't help, sorry), but I find this point by Kop307 in bold really interesting. I've always thought the opposite to be true - that being from a working class background is more conducive to becoming a top footballer than being from a middle class or upper class background.

Pretty much all top footballers come from working class backgrounds. There are a few notable exceptions of course - Vialli springs to mind as do the privately educated sons of former professional footballers, such as Lampard and Oxlade-Chamberlain. Maybe Will Hughes will one day make top level football too, but apart from those guys I'm struggling to think of any middle class footballers.

Curious to know then Kop307, why do you think being middle class from Cheshire would have meant your friends would have had a better chance of going on to play in the Premier League, despite all evidence suggesting that middle class people don't go on to become top footballers?

[Kop307]

Sorry to digress away from the OP Laaang (I'm not in the age range so can't help, sorry), but I find this point by Kop307 in bold really interesting. I've always thought the opposite to be true - that being from a working class background is more conducive to becoming a top footballer than being from a middle class or upper class background.

Pretty much all top footballers come from working class backgrounds. There are a few notable exceptions of course - Vialli springs to mind as do the privately educated sons of former professional footballers, such as Lampard and Oxlade-Chamberlain. Maybe Will Hughes will one day make top level football too, but apart from those guys I'm struggling to think of any middle class footballers.

Curious to know then Kop307, why do you think being middle class from Cheshire would have meant your friends would have had a better chance of going on to play in the Premier League, despite all evidence suggesting that middle class people don't go on to become top footballers?

The whole "Cheshire rich parents thing" was an extreme example. The people I interviewed were from very rough areas and they kept the wrong sort of friends. I didn't interview Ravel Morrison but he's a perfect example of the kind of young footballer  I'm talking about - albeit he's made it to a certain degree. When you're from a certain background you keep certain company. I had 5/6 contacts of a similar nature. It's not neccesarily about the area itself it's more about the finer details. The school you attended moulds your mental attitude to work. As much as people want to bash footballers it's their job and should be treated as such. Your coach is your teacher and if you've grown up with an attitude of disrespecting teachers, having a lack of respect for authority figures like the police, all this adds up to a lack of dicipline in football academies. It was a really interesting study. Had those lads gone to public school would their willingness to listen and be respectful in a football context, would their talent be on display now? We'll never know.

I agree a lot of professional footballers come from working class backgrounds but that usually entails being quite normal, not being surrounded by drugs and crime, there is a massive difference.  These lads weren't working class they were a level perhaps below that. I also looked into the role of parents and their influence on the career development.

[Xabi Gerrard]

The whole "Cheshire rich parents thing" was an extreme example. The people I interviewed were from very rough areas and they kept the wrong sort of friends. I didn't interview Ravel Morrison but he's a perfect example of the kind of young footballer  I'm talking about - albeit he's made it to a certain degree. When you're from a certain background you keep certain company. I had 5/6 contacts of a similar nature. It's not neccesarily about the area itself it's more about the finer details. The school you attended moulds your mental attitude to work. As much as people want to bash footballers it's their job and should be treated as such. Your coach is your teacher and if you've grown up with an attitude of disrespecting teachers, having a lack of respect for authority figures like the police, all this adds up to a lack of dicipline in football academies. It was a really interesting study. Had those lads gone to public school would their willingness to listen and be respectful in a football context, would their talent be on display now? We'll never know.

I agree a lot of professional footballers come from working class backgrounds but that usually entails being quite normal, not being surrounded by drugs and crime, there is a massive difference.  These lads weren't working class they were a level perhaps below that. I also looked into the role of parents and their influence on the career development.

Ah ok, I get you now. Agree with all that. I think there's definitely a 'sweet spot' in terms of socio-economic factors when it comes to the environment that's most conducive to producing footballers. Reading and listening to footballers talking about their upbringings (for example on the Graham Hunter Interview podcast or in autobiographies), there does seem to be a common theme - poorer backgrounds, strong family units with supportive parents, a good sense of community where they grew up (unlike, say Ravel Morrisson or the guys you interviewed), zero interest in school and hours spent daily practising, both with clubs and in the street. Obviously there will be exceptions but by and large that seems to the best environment for raising a top level player.

In answer to the question "Had those lads gone to public school would their willingness to listen and be respectful in a football context, would their talent be on display now? We'll never know", in my humble opinion I think that had they gone to public school, they wouldn't have been able to put the time in to get to that level of talent in the first place (too much time demands on academic achievement wouldn't allow for the requisite playing time that all top pros put in during childhood, plus not having the exposure to other aspiring footballers to help raise their game).  They'd most probably have the right attitude but unlikely have the talent.

If I PM you my email address could you send me over a copy of your dissertation? Sounds really interesting, I'd really like to give it a read.

[Kop307]

Ah ok, I get you now. Agree with all that. I think there's definitely a 'sweet spot' in terms of socio-economic factors when it comes to the environment that's most conducive to producing footballers. Reading and listening to footballers talking about their upbringings (for example on the Graham Hunter Interview podcast or in autobiographies), there does seem to be a common theme - poorer backgrounds, strong family units with supportive parents, a good sense of community where they grew up (unlike, say Ravel Morrisson or the guys you interviewed), zero interest in school and hours spent daily practising, both with clubs and in the street. Obviously there will be exceptions but by and large that seems to the best environment for raising a top level player.

In answer to the question "Had those lads gone to public school would their willingness to listen and be respectful in a football context, would their talent be on display now? We'll never know", in my humble opinion I think that had they gone to public school, they wouldn't have been able to put the time in to get to that level of talent in the first place (too much time demands on academic achievement wouldn't allow for the requisite playing time that all top pros put in during childhood, plus not having the exposure to other aspiring footballers to help raise their game).  They'd most probably have the right attitude but unlikely have the talent.

If I PM you my email address could you send me over a copy of your dissertation? Sounds really interesting, I'd really like to give it a read.

I wrote that years ago mate & don't have a copy. I think I got a 2:2 for it, it didn't go down well. I'd be embarrassed to read it myself to be honest let alone bloody share it 

I think that's one of the biggest differences in player development now and 20 years ago. The role of parents. Fegie said this recently. He said when he first got into mangement if a young player stepped out of line he'd call the parents and it'd be sorted. Now you're dealing with agents for 15 year old kids earning thousands, it's a nightmare to control these young lads. That's a completely different story though!

[Xabi Gerrard]

I wrote that years ago mate & don't have a copy. I think I got a 2:2 for it, it didn't go down well. I'd be embarrassed to read it myself to be honest let alone bloody share it 

I think that's one of the biggest differences in player development now and 20 years ago. The role of parents. Fegie said this recently. He said when he first got into mangement if a young player stepped out of line he'd call the parents and it'd be sorted. Now you're dealing with agents for 15 year old kids earning thousands, it's a nightmare to control these young lads. That's a completely different story though!

Haha, fair enough! Nowt wrong with a 2:2 by the way, the drinking man's degree.

Very true about changes over the last 20 years. Not sure if it's a coincidence but we don't seem to be producing players as talented as before any more in the UK.