Author Topic: Roberto Firmino  (Read 2008105 times)

Offline Morgana

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10880 on: March 11, 2020, 10:50:16 pm »
How is it Adrian's fault that we let this go to extra time?
Never said it was. All I said is if we'd taken our chances there wouldn't have been extra time.


I’m fine actually. Can just do without idiots wanting to take a pop at one of our most important players with absolutely no justification.

This is an argument I can never win because Firmino is one of those players who cannot be criticised. So am gonna bow out of this discussion.

Offline Ratboy3G

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10881 on: March 11, 2020, 10:50:33 pm »
Who's talking about extra time? It's Adrian's fault we lost this game. But why does this even make it in a Firmino's thread?

Read the post I was quoting
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10882 on: March 11, 2020, 10:52:29 pm »
Read the post I was quoting
I think you are making connections form a ramble that were not intended...

Anyway, Bobby. Excellent tonight.
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Offline Ratboy3G

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10883 on: March 11, 2020, 10:54:05 pm »
I was quoting a post that said Adrian was responsible for it going to extra time, which is nonsense.
Bobby was excellent, good to see him score again.
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Offline Captain Kos

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10884 on: March 11, 2020, 10:57:25 pm »
Bobby wasnt excellent though. He missed to very good chance that really should be finished. Both within the six yard box. At the top level that really is the difference.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10885 on: March 11, 2020, 10:58:39 pm »
I'm fine. Just pissed off we didn't take our chances in the first half. We royally fucked up letting this go to extra time. Both Adrian and Firmino responsible for this.

On the bright side, we avoid traveling and sending our players all over Europe during a pandemic.

On the bright side maybe you'll go and support someone else?
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10886 on: March 11, 2020, 10:59:02 pm »
Bobby wasnt excellent though. He missed to very good chance that really should be finished. Both within the six yard box. At the top level that really is the difference.
If you mean his shot saved by the keeper, he did the best with a half-chance. It's not like he missed a glaring opportunity.
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Offline Captain Kos

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10887 on: March 11, 2020, 11:01:05 pm »
There was the cross in the first half that he didn't make a connection with then in the second half when he studded the ball when he had time to send it into the net. He was also caught on the ball for their second.
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Offline RK7

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10888 on: March 11, 2020, 11:02:11 pm »
The effort and quality from Ox tonight was different level by the way, he looked determined and played with passion. Loved seeing that.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10889 on: March 11, 2020, 11:03:19 pm »
I'm not trying to bash firmino the player. Looking at the bigger picture and our downturn in form and goalscoring recently, our players are very possibly knackered. The front 3 need a bit more support from the bench
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10890 on: March 11, 2020, 11:05:00 pm »
There was the cross in the first half that he didn't make a connection with then in the second half when he studded the ball when he had time to send it into the net. He was also caught on the ball for their second.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10891 on: March 11, 2020, 11:07:31 pm »
I'm not trying to bash firmino the player. Looking at the bigger picture and our downturn in form and goalscoring recently, our players are very possibly knackered. The front 3 need a bit more support from the bench
That's true. But I'd thought that this was Firmino's best game in a while. He is not playing on top of his abilities, he hasn't been for a while, but this game was much better for him. The space that Ox enjoyed was created by him most of the time. When Salah and Mane are so closely guarded, Bobby made space for our spare weapon.

A bad day in the office. And nothing to play for after March. That's all.
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Offline Captain Kos

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10892 on: March 11, 2020, 11:07:33 pm »
Your the one who's sussed it!.....
I'm happy to have a balanced conversation on performances. It's not being negative have a conversation of differing opinions.
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Offline Captain Kos

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10893 on: March 11, 2020, 11:09:57 pm »
That's true. But I'd thought that this was Firmino's best game in a while. He is not playing on top of his abilities, he hasn't been for a while, but this game was much better for him. The space that Ox enjoyed was created by him most of the time. When Salah and Mane are so closely guarded, Bobby made space for our spare weapon.

A bad day in the office. And nothing to play for after March. That's all.
100% agree with this. He occupies defenders to allow the runs like for ginis header. On a different night the efforts go in and salah also bags a couple.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10894 on: March 11, 2020, 11:10:49 pm »
I'm happy to have a balanced conversation on performances. It's not being negative have a conversation of differing opinions.

what were your views on the positive parts of his game tonight?.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 11:12:54 pm by red1977 »

Offline Captain Kos

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10895 on: March 11, 2020, 11:14:42 pm »
He pull defenders either out wide or into the middle if the pitch to allow space behind him. A big deal against that defence. Some of his footwork was pure gold and he looked aggressive with his passing.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10896 on: March 11, 2020, 11:15:15 pm »
Did everything but score, oh wait ...

Offline rossipersempre

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10897 on: March 11, 2020, 11:19:55 pm »
His movement in the second half of the match was much improved and despite still clearly being out of sorts since the turn of the year (compared to his usual ridiculously high standards let's not forget), he stuck with it tonight amidst a lot of "attention" and eventually got what felt like a crucial and deserved winner, not to mention that annoying Anfield monkey statistic off his back. You feel for all the lads but I'm sure Bobby will be particularly gutted.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10898 on: March 11, 2020, 11:23:24 pm »
Bobby wasnt excellent though. He missed to very good chance that really should be finished. Both within the six yard box. At the top level that really is the difference.
Players miss chances. How have you never noticed this before?
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Offline harryc

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10899 on: March 11, 2020, 11:24:58 pm »
Not been at his best in front of goal recently but how can anyone fail to see what he does to be the creative link for the front 3.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10900 on: March 11, 2020, 11:25:18 pm »
Improved as the game went on and got his goal which should have been the winner. Overall, I still felt that he is nowhere near his best and hasn't been for a number of games. Given that we only need to more wins for the league, and we aren't in any other competitions, I wonder if it worth trying some other players now and seeing if we can perhaps develop 1-2 other ways to play that isn't so reliant on him.


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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10901 on: March 11, 2020, 11:25:42 pm »
Never said it was. All I said is if we'd taken our chances there wouldn't have been extra time.
You were repeatedly calling for him to be replaced, and yet he scored what could and maybe should have been the winner.

Quote
This is an argument I can never win because Firmino is one of those players who cannot be criticised. So am gonna bow out of this discussion.
It's not that he can't be criticised it's that some of us aren't shithouse fannies. We know that players' form or goalscoring levels go up and down, it's part of the game. And we know that if a manager who has proven himself selects such a player then he has decided, in his expert opinion, that this is the correct thing to do based on all the info he has which we don't. No internet poster is going to know any better.
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Offline Morgana

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10902 on: March 11, 2020, 11:26:29 pm »
On the bright side maybe you'll go and support someone else?

Why would I? I've been supporting Liverpool since I was old enough to know what a football is. You wont see me telling you to go support another team just because you have an opinion I don't agree with, or a favourite I don't think as highly of. I love what Firmino does for the team, but I think am allowed to say he's wasteful at times. Get over yourself.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10903 on: March 11, 2020, 11:28:00 pm »
Thought he was fine tonight, all things considered. It's never easy being the central attacker against such a crowded defence.

Offline Morgana

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10904 on: March 11, 2020, 11:28:53 pm »
There was the cross in the first half that he didn't make a connection with then in the second half when he studded the ball when he had time to send it into the net. He was also caught on the ball for their second.

How come you're not being slaughtered on here for saying the same thing I'm saying?

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10905 on: March 11, 2020, 11:29:05 pm »
Why would I? I've been supporting Liverpool since I was old enough to know what a football is. You wont see me telling you to go support another team just because you have an opinion I don't agree with, or a favourite I don't think as highly of. I love what Firmino does for the team, but I think am allowed to say he's wasteful at times. Get over yourself.
That I do agree with. Just cos someone is demonstrably wrong doesn't mean they are not a fan and will want to go support anyone else. Plenty of fans are wrong all the time.  ;) :wave
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10906 on: March 11, 2020, 11:30:31 pm »
Why would I? I've been supporting Liverpool since I was old enough to know what a football is. You wont see me telling you to go support another team just because you have an opinion I don't agree with, or a favourite I don't think as highly of. I love what Firmino does for the team, but I think am allowed to say he's wasteful at times. Get over yourself.

How about PSG? They seem like they could do well.
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Offline Morgana

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10907 on: March 11, 2020, 11:32:24 pm »
That I do agree with. Just cos someone is demonstrably wrong doesn't mean they are not a fan and will want to go support anyone else. Plenty of fans are wrong all the time.  ;) :wave

True. Opinions are just that: opinions. Don't think I'm wrong, but then again, that is also an opinion.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10908 on: March 11, 2020, 11:35:40 pm »
Stepped up today and scored the goal that really should've ended the tie as a contest.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10909 on: March 11, 2020, 11:53:15 pm »
True. Opinions are just that: opinions. Don't think I'm wrong, but then again, that is also an opinion.
You're wrong for the following reasons (not exhaustive):

1) Firmino has an incredible track record of scoring important goals for us; that doesn't just go away for ever; dips in form can turn around, and they are more likely to turn around if the player is playing. You don't score when you're not playing.

2) Firmino does so much more for the team than just score goals; by removing him you lose that.

3) If he doesn't play then who does? It's not like there's some ready made super-duper replacement who is being prevented from playing by Bobby starting. Origi for all his heroics is not that player, and he does not do half what Bobby does. Minamino is not yet that player either. If there was another player who was unfairly being kept out by this player then you might have some semblance of a point. But there isn't. In many positions we have to make do with what we have.

It's easy, when angry or frustrated, to yell ''take off X'' but then what? Football support should not be about taking ones anger out on players, even underperforming players. Otherwise you get your moment of vengeance and then what?

4) Jurgen Klopp is fucking boss. He might just know w thing or two that you and I do not.
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Offline Captain Kos

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10910 on: March 11, 2020, 11:53:44 pm »
How come you're not being slaughtered on here for saying the same thing I'm saying?
Dunno lad. Dont worry about it though. People do see football different so least believe in what you're seeing but appreciate others perspective.  The truth is normally in the middle ground
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Offline Captain Kos

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10911 on: March 11, 2020, 11:58:18 pm »
You're wrong for the following reasons (not exhaustive):

1) Firmino has an incredible track record of scoring important goals for us; that doesn't just go away for ever; dips in form can turn around, and they are more likely to turn around if the player is playing. You don't score when you're not playing.

2) Firmino does so much more for the team than just score goals; by removing him you lose that.

3) If he doesn't play then who does? It's not like there's some ready made super-duper replacement who is being prevented from playing by Bobby starting. Origi for all his heroics is not that player, and he does not do half what Bobby does. Minamino is not yet that player either. If there was another player who was unfairly being kept out by this player then you might have some semblance of a point. But there isn't. In many positions we have to make do with what we have.

It's easy, when angry or frustrated, to yell ''take off X'' but then what? Football support should not be about taking ones anger out on players, even underperforming players. Otherwise you get your moment of vengeance and then what?

4) Jurgen Klopp is fucking boss. He might just know w thing or two that you and I do not.
This is very true. We do sometimes need a different outlet. That doesn't mean in place of Bobby though. Klopp does sometimes drop him deeper and play salah through the middle during games. Morgana seems to be frustrated which we all are. I think they're considering what could have been done to create a different outcome that's all.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 12:00:00 am by Captain Kos »
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Offline Morgana

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10912 on: March 12, 2020, 12:36:42 am »
You're wrong for the following reasons (not exhaustive):

1) Firmino has an incredible track record of scoring important goals for us; that doesn't just go away for ever; ...

2) Firmino does so much more for the team than just score goals; by removing him you lose that.

3) If he doesn't play then who does? It's not like there's some ready made super-duper replacement who is being prevented from playing by Bobby starting. Origi for all his heroics is not that player, and he does not do half what Bobby does. Minamino is not yet that player either. If there was another player who was unfairly being kept out by this player then you might have some semblance of a point. But there isn't. In many positions we have to make do with what we have.

It's easy, when angry or frustrated, to yell ''take off X'' but then what? Football support should not be about taking ones anger out on players, even underperforming players. Otherwise you get your moment of vengeance and then what?

4) Jurgen Klopp is fucking boss. He might just know w thing or two that you and I do not.

1). I never said it did. Of course I am delighted for his goals that got us through the CWC and all the away goals he's scored to help us win the league this year. Me thinking he's been wasteful at Anfield (and probably a little bit too protected by fans and even Klopp) doesn't change the fact that I think very highly of him otherwise. Look at Divock Origi and all the amazing things he's done for Liverpool. But if he has a bad game half the world starts yapping about how he's not good enough to play for us.... By the way, that's NOT what I'm saying here about Firmino: Yes, Bobby scored a much-needed goal to put us ahead tonight; I just wish it had come a bit sooner. I wish we never had to go to extra time because most of our players played such a high tempo game in the first and second half, they were bound to be knackered. In the first half Bobby seemed to be half asleep to be honest.

2). Everyone knows Firmino is not a traditional #9 and what he does for the team is indispensable. But let's not forget that we have also won games with him and Salah out (e.g. last year v. Barcelona and a few PL games where we were battling for head-to-head with City for the league). No player should be made to feel too comfortable ... like they are irreplaceable or something. That's when complacency creeps in.

3). Seeing as though we really needed to win it in 90 minutes, I don't think taking Ox off was the right answer. Think he had the most energy during the match and might have offered us a bit more going into the final stages of regulation time. Who should have been taken off instead of him? Well, I felt it was Bobby, but then he scored in extra time, which in theory makes me look like a tit (not denying that I am one, but I still feel we needed that goal sooner). 

4). Well, that goes without saying, but opinions are opinions. Klopp himself said he wouldn't have bought Salah, and looked how that turned out. Plus, people on here disagree with some of Klopp's choices all the time. It's called being a fan. We don't have to be sycophantic, and we don't have to treat our favourite players as if they are beyond criticism.

Offline McrRed

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10913 on: March 12, 2020, 12:55:59 am »
He was brilliant again tonight. Sadly, the only lasting positive was him breaking his Anfield hoodoo.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10914 on: March 12, 2020, 01:56:04 am »
Bobby is Boss.

Anyone thinking otherwise is going to have one hell of a job convincing Jurgen otherwise.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10915 on: March 12, 2020, 02:20:50 am »
Bit pissed off he’s doing off the post trick finishes in such an important game.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10916 on: March 12, 2020, 09:07:36 am »
100% agree with this. He occupies defenders to allow the runs like for ginis header.

Exactly this. One of the pundits on the stream I was watching, I forget who, rightly pointed out that it was Firmino playing between the lines and keeping their players occupied that allowed Ox so much space to express himself.

Seems amazing that we need to point out that in a team game, these things are all tightly interconnected.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10917 on: March 12, 2020, 09:24:24 am »
Bobby knits everything together in the final 3rd....2nd half onwards he was immense last night and scored what should have been the winning goal.

He hadn't scored at Anfield until last night, for a player in our front 3 that is disappointing and Klopp has spoken before about it getting to him when he has been on dips in front of goal but he knows that goals at home or not he brings so much quality. (and he's scored a fair few away, important goals too for this league campaign!)

So his football has still been decent and he's kept getting in positions and am gutted the goal he scored wasn't the winning one. Regardless, it's good he's put a line under that and can hopefully kick on now.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10918 on: March 12, 2020, 09:45:56 am »
Not been arsed about Bobby's lack of goals, it's been main his performances that have been the worry - he has been off his game for a while and we can see how it has affected our performances as a team.

Whilst that is a negative, it should also highlight how good he is and how important he has been to us. He always misses chances even when he is on fire so that's not a problem.

He was almost back to his best last night in terms of overall play. Yes, he could've had 1 or 2 more goals but he did get one.

Hopefully this will kick start him and we will see the freedom come back to our game.
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Offline Davidbowie

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #10919 on: March 12, 2020, 10:29:08 am »
Firmino has never been a goalscorer, he wasn't at Hoffenheim and he's never been prolific at LFC. I've always viewed him as more of a second striker/attacking midfielder - not a centre forward who leads the line and gets the goals.

I think the problem is that whilst a SS/AM isn't expected to get a hatful of goals e.g. Minamino or Ox - Firmino naturally plays in the same position as they do and he IS expected to do that - whilst also being Liverpool's main centre forward.

My personal opinion is that we could benefit from adding a proper centre-forward to our squad. A goalscorer. I suppose that would then mean either Firmino plays less matches in rotation and maybe you lose his pressing ability and his knitting everything together, or he plays at the tip of a diamond formation as the SS/AM and drops back a bit.

As boss as he is, for a Liverpool CF to score 1 home goal in almost a full season is not great at all, no matter how you look at it.
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