Topic: Merseyrail - now with added 777

[timmit]

May 2nd for return to 15 min timetable

[Red Beret]

May 2nd for return to 15 min timetable

[AndyMuller]

May 2nd for return to 15 min timetable

Wheyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

[So… Howard Philips]

May 2nd for return to 15 min timetable

I take it that’s the Northern Line as the Wirral line has been 15 minutes for a while.

St Micheal’s update - there are know some large concrete blocks on the platform that weren’t there back in November when I was last at the station.

[timmit]

I take it that’s the Northern Line as the Wirral line has been 15 minutes for a while?

That's not true. Only the Chester line is 15 mins. New Brighton and West Kirby are 20 mins, Ellesmere Port are 30 mins presently

[Red Beret]

St Michael's update - there are know some large concrete blocks on the platform that weren’t there back in November when I was last at the station.

Was there myself today. no clue what the concrete blocks might be for as the lift shafts seem to be being built out of regular breeze blocks and bricks. They're just lying around. Maybe they'll be used to support the construction of the new gangways?

[So… Howard Philips]

Was there myself today. no clue what the concrete blocks might be for as the lift shafts seem to be being built out of regular breeze blocks and bricks. They're just lying around. Maybe they'll be used to support the construction of the new gangways?

It must have taken some effort to get them down that earth ramp.

Maybe they are recreating the pyramid of Khufu in the hinterland of Lark Lane?

[sharkeyb]

i jumped on  the train to go the match the other day, seen one of the new trains empty at sandhills, looked cool.

to get a saveaway i had to get a metrocard and paid a quid for it, but i find it strange that they launch these things without the connectivity to the whole transport network in merseyside, (you can only buy train tickets it seems).  it seems that you cant buy a saveaway online only in shops and you cant download it to your phone yet.

i may be wrong on a few bits, but the site doesnt seem clear.  are they just a first step to an oystercard system?

[Red Beret]

i jumped on  the train to go the match the other day, seen one of the new trains empty at sandhills, looked cool.

to get a saveaway i had to get a metrocard and paid a quid for it, but i find it strange that they launch these things without the connectivity to the whole transport network in merseyside, (you can only buy train tickets it seems).  it seems that you cant buy a saveaway online only in shops and you cant download it to your phone yet.

i may be wrong on a few bits, but the site doesnt seem clear.  are they just a first step to an oystercard system?

Honestly, the card system in Liverpool is shambolic, which reflects the fact that public transport on Merseyside is not integrated.

You can buy a weekly bus pass, either a paper ticket or by using a metrocard, but if you want a saveaway you have to go to a shop or a train station. And you have to make sure that they give you a saveaway and not a rail-only pass. And it's only valid for a day's travel.

In London, you can top up an Oystercard and after a certain number of journeys the price is capped so you don't spend anymore. And you can use your bankcard just as easily as an Oystercard. In other countries, you can get a travel pass that works on all public transport - typically for 3, 7, 10 or even 21 days.

The travel pass system in Liverpool is absolutely wretched and overpriced.

[gazzalfc]

i jumped on  the train to go the match the other day, seen one of the new trains empty at sandhills, looked cool.

to get a saveaway i had to get a metrocard and paid a quid for it, but i find it strange that they launch these things without the connectivity to the whole transport network in merseyside, (you can only buy train tickets it seems).  it seems that you cant buy a saveaway online only in shops and you cant download it to your phone yet.

i may be wrong on a few bits, but the site doesnt seem clear.  are they just a first step to an oystercard system?

I have 2 'metro' cards. I have one which I use for my monthly Merseyrail only railpass for work. That one you can buy online and use those 'oyster' style tap in pads at the station to activate.

The other I use as my saveaway for the match as that gets me on the train to Sandhills, Soccerbus to the ground, the 917 back into town and then train home.

The biggest difference between London and every other major city's public transport is that in London TfL (transport for london) runs the entire public transport network. In Liverpool you have Merseyrail (and technically Northern) operating the trains and then Arriva and Stagecoach (and Halton Transport before they went bust) running the buses. They may run under the Merseytravel name and have a collective agreement to run under Merseytravel Areas/Zones but they are their own separate companies.

Now in a perfect world Merseytravel would bring it all in house when the contracts with Arriva and Stagecoach ends but that is never going to happen no matter how many statements Steve Rotheram gives to the Echo. Plus Merseytravel dont have the resources and expertise to run their own transport network.

The even bigger problem Merseyrail has with their ticketing is that they still run on an antiquated activation system. If you buy a train ticket online and any part of it uses the Merseyrail network you HAVE to get a paper ticket for it to be valid. Because payment is not secured for Merseyrail unless the ticket has been printed. If you buy a ticket online and dont get it printed then you can easily refund it after the journey and Merseyrail dont get paid. It is a hugely glaring loophole that cannot be closed for them.

Thats why there are so many clickbait articles on the Echo with people getting fined because even though they paid for their Chester to Manchester ticket online and they have a valid receipt for that ticket and their QR codes on their phone work at Chester, Lime street and Manchester stations, they dont work on Merseyrail so when you get to Liverpool central you get 'bylaw enforcement officers' rubbing their hands together because they have just earnt Merseyrail £20 per person even though you have a receipt and a valid ticket for the rest of your journey, you dont have a paper rail ticket for the Chester to Liverpool Central portion of your journey.

It is shit beyond belief and they can throw as many shiny new trains at us (even though I still believe the drivers union still haven't signed a deal so no driver has actually started training on the new trains) things wont change

[gazzalfc]

I've not been down to London for years but went down for the Semi final and the tube is just an incredible bit of public transport.

Oh missed your train, there's another one in 2 minutes.

Oh that station is closed, well just get this line to that station and change there and get there that way instead.

Worried about how much it costs? well just tap your oyster card there and update it in real time and it caps out on a daily limit that you will never go over and it will always calculate the cheapest fare so you will never pay more than you should

I did 6 zone 5 to zone 1 trips in London over 3 days and it cost me £13.

[Red Beret]

London likely also enjoys huge transport subsidies, as let's face it, just about everything else in London does.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I've not been down to London for years but went down for the Semi final and the tube is just an incredible bit of public transport.

Oh missed your train, there's another one in 2 minutes.

Oh that station is closed, well just get this line to that station and change there and get there that way instead.

Worried about how much it costs? well just tap your oyster card there and update it in real time and it caps out on a daily limit that you will never go over and it will always calculate the cheapest fare so you will never pay more than you should

I did 6 zone 5 to zone 1 trips in London over 3 days and it cost me £13.

The daily cap is great, as is being able to use a bank card. I walk a fair bit when I'm down there but the Tube is great for the longer journeys.

[timmit]

I have 2 'metro' cards. I have one which I use for my monthly Merseyrail only railpass for work. That one you can buy online and use those 'oyster' style tap in pads at the station to activate.

The other I use as my saveaway for the match as that gets me on the train to Sandhills, Soccerbus to the ground, the 917 back into town and then train home.

The biggest difference between London and every other major city's public transport is that in London TfL (transport for london) runs the entire public transport network. In Liverpool you have Merseyrail (and technically Northern) operating the trains and then Arriva and Stagecoach (and Halton Transport before they went bust) running the buses. They may run under the Merseytravel name and have a collective agreement to run under Merseytravel Areas/Zones but they are their own separate companies.

Now in a perfect world Merseytravel would bring it all in house when the contracts with Arriva and Stagecoach ends but that is never going to happen no matter how many statements Steve Rotheram gives to the Echo. Plus Merseytravel dont have the resources and expertise to run their own transport network.



The even bigger problem Merseyrail has with their ticketing is that they still run on an antiquated activation system. If you buy a train ticket online and any part of it uses the Merseyrail network you HAVE to get a paper ticket for it to be valid. Because payment is not secured for Merseyrail unless the ticket has been printed. If you buy a ticket online and dont get it printed then you can easily refund it after the journey and Merseyrail dont get paid. It is a hugely glaring loophole that cannot be closed for them.

Thats why there are so many clickbait articles on the Echo with people getting fined because even though they paid for their Chester to Manchester ticket online and they have a valid receipt for that ticket and their QR codes on their phone work at Chester, Lime street and Manchester stations, they dont work on Merseyrail so when you get to Liverpool central you get 'bylaw enforcement officers' rubbing their hands together because they have just earnt Merseyrail £20 per person even though you have a receipt and a valid ticket for the rest of your journey, you dont have a paper rail ticket for the Chester to Liverpool Central portion of your journey.

It is shit beyond belief and they can throw as many shiny new trains at us (even though I still believe the drivers union still haven't signed a deal so no driver has actually started training on the new trains) things wont change

Gazza, you could, if you wished, use the same metro card for both those things. They can have multiple products on them.

A lot of what you say about the ticketing system is correct. For now at least, there is always the issue of Trainline tickets not being printed and then refunded hence why they try to make it clear that the ticket isnt valid until it has been printed off.

With regards to your next point though, if you're buying a simple Chester to manchester return with a QR code you WILL get a fine if you try to get off in Liverpool as its not a recognised route unfortunately. you would have to get two separate tickets

[Statto Red]

It's daft, discussing this on another forum, some areas you can buy the passes on the bus, like the Greater Manchester area, you can there system one travelcards [GMs equivalent of the saveaway]on the bus, but you can't buy a Merseyside saveaway on the bus [although you can buy a solo on the bus, but might not be the ticket you want].

It's time Merseytravel realised it's 2022, bus ticket machines now can be programmed to issue tickets from day to weekly, & follow suit with saveaways.

You have a scenario if going on a flight arriving at Liverpool Airport, & need the bus & train, there's nowhere at the Airport were you can buy saveaways, as the shop that used to sell them has been taken over by another store.

[swoopy]

It's daft, discussing this on another forum, some areas you can buy the passes on the bus, like the Greater Manchester area, you can there system one travelcards [GMs equivalent of the saveaway]on the bus, but you can't buy a Merseyside saveaway on the bus [although you can buy a solo on the bus, but might not be the ticket you want].

It's time Merseytravel realised it's 2022, bus ticket machines now can be programmed to issue tickets from day to weekly, & follow suit with saveaways.

You have a scenario if going on a flight arriving at Liverpool Airport, & need the bus & train, there's nowhere at the Airport were you can buy saveaways, as the shop that used to sell them has been taken over by another store.

Yes pointed this out to MerseyTravel recently. They said it's because there's no paypoint store in the airport anymore. Shambolic.
I walked 5 minutes up the road to the nearest paypoint store and got one there instead.

[Red Beret]

I didn't know that about the airport not doing saveaways anymore. Useful to know.

[ToneLa]

I use them online day saver things to save on forests, but as its a barcode no staff ever care just wave you on through no scanning no looking most times no nothin

I have pondered taking a screenshot of one and just editing the date in Photoshop as and when I need it but yknow I pay tax and stuff I'm not actually a miser

Maybe I just look really trustworthy?

[rob1966]

I use them online day saver things to save on forests, but as its a barcode no staff ever care just wave you on through no scanning no looking most times no nothin

I have pondered taking a screenshot of one and just editing the date in Photoshop as and when I need it but yknow I pay tax and stuff I'm not actually a miser

Maybe I just look really trustworthy?

I used to love saveaways, you'd go ages without rubbing a day off until you got stopped and then you'd hold it like a guitarist, fingers covering the rubbed off dates. We also got good at peeling the silver film off a used saveaway and sticking it over our rubbed off dates.

[ToneLa]

I used to love saveaways, you'd go ages without rubbing a day off until you got stopped and then you'd hold it like a guitarist, fingers covering the rubbed off dates. We also got good at peeling the silver film off a used saveaway and sticking it over our rubbed off dates.

That sounds ace 

Tempted to do my digital forgery idea just as tribute to those better times haha

[Statto Red]

From Monday 6 June, a limited rail replacement bus service will run on the Kirkby & New Brighton lines. Some services will also be cancelled on the West Kirby line.

This is due to an unexpected and significant increase in wheel bearing faults.

We ask passengers to check before you travel and if you are travelling on the Kirkby or New Brighton lines, please allow more time for your journey.

From Monday 6 June, a limited rail replacement bus service will run on the Kirkby & New Brighton lines. Some services will also be cancelled on the West Kirby line. This is due to an unexpected and significant increase in wheel bearing faults. We ask passengers to check before you travel and if you are travelling on the Kirkby or New Brighton lines, please allow more time for your journey.

https://www.merseyrail.org/

[AndyMuller]

So no actual timeline when it will be back to normal then?

[Statto Red]

No one knows, seems the issue is the upgraded power supply damaging the wheel bearings on the 507/08s, in causing them to overheat, the 777s should have been in service by now, but still ongoing discussions how the guards will be used, god knows when that's going to be resolved, also i believe some 77s have software & wiring faults.

There's a few 507/08s in sidings everywhere over the last week

[CornerFlag]

Are the 777s going to be rushed into service rather than the planned Autumn start, I wonder?

[Statto Red]

Are the 777s going to be rushed into service rather than the planned Autumn start, I wonder?

Anyone's guess, there's sill ongoing discussions over the role of guards on the new 777s, which one of the reasons why they're not in service yet, the sooner they get that resolved the better, the 507/08s are over 40 years old now & showing there age, they also need 500 miles of fault free testing before entering service.

[Red Beret]

The original plan, I think, was to introduce the 777s onto the West Kirby/New Brighton lines in one swoop. when I talked to the reps last year and watched a few videos, it seemed they had taken delivery of about a dozen 777s at that time, and so had enough trains to run those services.

If the new voltage system is damaging existing stock then that creates a real headache. It's little wonder they've pulled trains from the lines expecting to take first delivery of the 777s. They may have little choice but to bring them in piecemeal if this disruption continues for any length of time.

[gazzalfc]

As far as I'm aware, the drivers still haven't signed their deal with the union to drive the new trains. So the training hasn't even begun (Stadler are doing all the testing so far). We're still a long long way off seeing the new trains accepting paying passengers.

[Red Beret]

As far as I'm aware, the drivers still haven't signed their deal with the union to drive the new trains. So the training hasn't even begun (Stadler are doing all the testing so far). We're still a long long way off seeing the new trains accepting paying passengers.

 

[courty61]

It's a joke how the Echo are non reporting this. Still banging on about Covid being the reason.

These trains should have been in by 2020!!!

Ridiculous situation really

[gazzalfc]

And now all lines (except Southport to Liverpool central) will move to a 30 min service from Monday

[AndyMuller]

And now all lines (except Southport to Liverpool central) will move to a 30 min service from Monday

Fuck sake why? Merseyrail are absolutely shite.

They also need to reduce the prices we pay for the absolutely shite service we get. Think we have had 15 min service for a total of 3 months since 2020.

[Statto Red]

Fuck sake why? Merseyrail are absolutely shite.

They also need to reduce the prices we pay for the absolutely shite service we get. Think we have had 15 min service for a total of 3 months since 2020.

As i said, faults on the wheel barings, the 507/08s should have been withdrawn by now for the new 777s, which are in sidings, but brinkmanship is stopping the 777s from entering service.

I believe the person making the planning decisions for the 777s, left another TOC under a cloud

[AndyMuller]

As i said, faults on the wheel barings, the 507/08s should have been withdrawn by now for the new 777s, which are in sidings, but brinkmanship is stopping the 777s from entering service.

I believe the person making the planning decisions for the 777s, left another TOC under a cloud

Ridiculous mate.

[Statto Red]

Apparently 25 units, not far from half the fleet of 507/08s, are off the road, or rails, waiting for repairs.

As said, the 777s don't have guard operating panels fitted, so guards can operate the doors, which is another ridiculous blunder, adding to the fallout over the use of guards once new 777s are in service, one of the reasons the 777s aren't in service yet.

The timeframe when the 777s are introduced into passenger service is anyone's guess, it's now Autumn at the earliest, & could drag into next year, & that's if Merseyrail can get an agreement with the Unions, as well as ironing out any faults with the 777s.

[rob1966]

Apparently 25 units, not far from half the fleet of 507/08s, are off the road, or rails, waiting for repairs.

As said, the 777s don't have guard operating panels fitted, so guards can operate the doors, which is another ridiculous blunder, adding to the fallout over the use of guards once new 777s are in service, one of the reasons the 777s aren't in service yet.

The timeframe when the 777s are introduced into passenger service is anyone's guess, it's now Autumn at the earliest, & could drag into next year, & that's if Merseyrail can get an agreement with the Unions, as well as ironing out any faults with the 777s.

Did Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson order the trains for Merseyrail when he ordered the buses for London?

[timmit]

Apparently 25 units, not far from half the fleet of 507/08s, are off the road, or rails, waiting for repairs.

As said, the 777s don't have guard operating panels fitted, so guards can operate the doors, which is another ridiculous blunder, adding to the fallout over the use of guards once new 777s are in service, one of the reasons the 777s aren't in service yet.

The timeframe when the 777s are introduced into passenger service is anyone's guess, it's now Autumn at the earliest, & could drag into next year, & that's if Merseyrail can get an agreement with the Unions, as well as ironing out any faults with the 777s.

21 units currently out of action.

The 777s are still a way off as the guards (second person on train) is still not resolved. Once/if that is done,The drivers need to be trained. So still a fair way off I’d say.

[Red Beret]

It's been three fucking years. How long does it take to sort out the role of the person who walks up and down the train offering tickets and keeping an eye out for anti social behaviour?

Did Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson order the trains for Merseyrail when he ordered the buses for London?

In the old trains, the buttons were deliberately plated over by Merseyrail, presumably to stop dickheads trying to vandalize them. So yeah, they need guards to activate the doors.

On the new trains, the driver can do all that, but there's a case that people feel safer when there's a staff member patrolling the train, rather than have the driver monitor CCTV when they have other things to do. Like driving the train.

It's a sensible option, so there seems to be deadlock over what amounts to semantics.

[courty61]

Surely with the trains out of service they can use this time to train the drivers on the new trains? Or can they not do that yet?

Absolute shambles. The Echo have started to ask more pertinent questions as usually they seem scared of pissing off anyone unless they are a Tory.

[timmit]

It's been three fucking years. How long does it take to sort out the role of the person who walks up and down the train offering tickets and keeping an eye out for anti social behaviour?

In the old trains, the buttons were deliberately plated over by Merseyrail, presumably to stop dickheads trying to vandalize them. So yeah, they need guards to activate the doors.

On the new trains, the driver can do all that, but there's a case that people feel safer when there's a staff member patrolling the train, rather than have the driver monitor CCTV when they have other things to do. Like driving the train.

It's a sensible option, so there seems to be deadlock over what amounts to semantics.

It’s been a lot longer than three years to be fair. The role of what was the guard will change quite a lot. Whether you agree or disagree with that, the people in that role will fight for the best deal. It’s not for me to say whether or not they’re being unrealistic or not.

In terms of the drivers, it will impact on them too, they will not undertake anything until the guards dispute has been sorted.

[AndyMuller]

I hardly ever seen any guards on trains as it is though and I travel from Kirkby to Hunts Cross.