Topic: Thatcher is dead

[That Kennedy moment]

It was reported in the weekend papers that Margaret Thatcher is to be given a state funeral. She'll be the first 'commoner' to have one since Churchill, and – I think I read – only the sixth since the start of the 19th century, after Nelson, Wellington, Palmerston, Gladstone and Churchill.

Has this country totally lost the plot? Has the Labour Party – which has agreed to this, reportedly – lost all sense of what it's supposed to be about?

This woman has done more damage to this country than any other individual in God knows how long - maybe a couple of centuries. I honestly can't think of someone who changed this country so drastically, and with such damaging impact. And this is a woman who famously believed there is no such thing as society. So why should this society give her a state funeral?

Personally, the only tribute I want to hear to Thatcher when she dies is from Elvis Costello. I'll be playing Tramp the Dirt Down till my iPod burns out

[smicer07]

I'm thinking of arranging a massive celebratory party, personally.

[Vinay]

Isn't it a bit funny talking about someone's funeral if she hasn't died yet?

[redchiz]

Isn't it a bit funny talking about someone's funeral if she hasn't died yet?

I think we should bury her anyway.

[That Kennedy moment]

Isn't it a bit funny talking about someone's funeral if she hasn't died yet?

We're talking about a state funeral here, something reserved for some of the biggest heroes in history.

Thatcher? I give up…

[Degs]

I'm thinking of arranging a massive celebratory party, personally.

The Saturday after she dies in Trafalgar square.

I think they want Costello and Billy Bragg will deffo play.

[pantbash]

I'm thinking of arranging a massive celebratory party, personally.

At least the news coverage will remind you to throw the party.
Every cloud...

[PaislyShankley]

Hooray! This is good news and well deserved.

[DannyD]

It was reported in the weekend papers that Margaret Thatcher is to be given a state funeral. She'll be the first 'commoner' to have one since Churchill, and – I think I read – only the sixth since the start of the 19th century, after Nelson, Wellington, Palmerston, Gladstone and Churchill.

Has this country totally lost the plot? Has the Labour Party – which has agreed to this, reportedly – lost all sense of what it's supposed to be about?

This woman has done more damage to this country than any other individual in God knows how long - maybe a couple of centuries. I honestly can't think of someone who changed this country so drastically, and with such damaging impact. And this is a woman who famously believed there is no such thing as society. So why should this society give her a state funeral?

Personally, the only tribute I want to hear to Thatcher when she dies is from Elvis Costello. I'll be playing Tramp the Dirt Down till my iPod burns out

It just shows the class nature of the British Sate doesn't it. If anything expresses the need for an independent workers party this disgusting act does. It brings home how far removed these well heeled Labourites are from the common people.

I would suggest every union branch send a letter calling for this to be scaraped or a one day general strike takes place on that glad day she comes into contact with the earth.

[DannyD]

Hooray! This is good news and well deserved.

and so says the 6 months soldier of battle.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I think we should bury her anyway.

[Yorkykopite]

It's an amazing idea - for such a divisive figure. Churchill obviously had form on this too - Tonypandy, Gallipoli, General Strike. He boasted of making the starving locked-out miners "eat grass" and said that Attlee's government would introduce "a Gestapo" to Britain. A complete and utter loon. But his desire to beat the Nazis was as strong as anyone's and at least the British people could remember that when the State interred him.

But Thatcher? She hated half the population and half the population hated her. If this goes ahead there'll be a massive security operation to keep people away from the cortege.

[Vinay]

Having said all, who really liked, and still likes Thatcher?  Was the only good thing she ever instigated "Work Hard, Save and Buy a House?" (Not the exact words, but the idea).

[That Kennedy moment]

Churchill  was a divisive figure, not least in bombing Iraq in the Twenties and his response to the General Strike, but by galvanising the country in 1940 against the Nazis, most of Europe owes him, big time. Whenever I wander round Paris or Rome, I think, why can't London look like this? Then I remember that someone in Europe had to fight Hitler to a standstill, and Churchill and the Russians did that.

Thatcher's state funeral could see the biggest riot this country has had since the Poll Tax rally in 1990. Seriously. There are millions of people out there who would not only object massively to a parade like that, they'll also love the chance to dance on her grave. This one's heading for a good old-fashioned British punch-up - which would be the most fitting way to see Thatcher off into the next world.

[The Manhattan Project]

All former prime ministers should get state funerals.

Whether one liked them or not.

[PaislyShankley]

This one's heading for a good old-fashioned British punch-up - which would be the most fitting way to see Thatcher off into the next world.

I was merely being the voice of dissent on a rather left wing site earlier when I said it was god news. to be honest, I could've give a stuff, but I have to ask you - do you really believe that?

[DannyD]

Churchill  was a divisive figure, not least in bombing Iraq in the Twenties and his response to the General Strike, but by galvanising the country in 1940 against the Nazis, most of Europe owes him, big time. Whenever I wander round Paris or Rome, I think, why can't London look like this? Then I remember that someone in Europe had to fight Hitler to a standstill, and Churchill and the Russians did that.

Thatcher's state funeral could see the biggest riot this country has had since the Poll Tax rally in 1990. Seriously. There are millions of people out there who would not only object massively to a parade like that, they'll also love the chance to dance on her grave. This one's heading for a good old-fashioned British punch-up - which would be the most fitting way to see Thatcher off into the next world.

Re Churchill ....we owe Roosevelt far more than Churchill , was making speeches about fighting till the last drop of British blood while at the same time holding talks about doing a deal with Hitler and Mussolini that kept as much of the Empire as he could manage, the war cabinet figured out after Italy and Germany took their prizes there wouldn't be anything left for the home grown crows to plunder. So it was all or nothing, and if Japan had taken on the USA and the Soviets hadn’t pushed Hitler back  it would almost of certainly have been nothing except a fast boat out of here for him the royal family and the well heeled aristocrats..

[Istanbul Therapy Group]

Me Dad's got a special bottle of champagne courvousier unopened for when she croaks.

Only ever refers to her as "That Bastard"

[DannyD]

I was merely being the voice of dissent on a rather left wing site earlier when I said it was god news. to be honest, I could've give a stuff, but I have to ask you - do you really believe that?

Don't know about Kennedy but I will be out there.

Explain how posting on a left wing site made you post your approval on here

[Hightown Phil]

Does this mean she's nearly dead?

[DannyD]

Does this mean she's nearly dead?

Brain dead for at least 5 years

[PaislyShankley]

Don't know about Kennedy but I will be out there.

Explain how posting on a left wing site made you post your approval on here

No. I really did mean I'd rather you didn't speak to me.

[redchiz]

Was the only good thing she ever instigated "Work Hard, Save and Buy a House?"

Yeah.

Work your bollocks off.

Save, 'cos nobody else is gonna look after you.

Buy the house you already live in.

And if you can't do any of the above, fuck off and die.

[Tsar Kastik]

I think we should bury her anyway.

Plenty of disused mine shafts available.
Let the top earners club together for it.

[That Kennedy moment]

I was merely being the voice of dissent on a rather left wing site earlier when I said it was god news. to be honest, I could've give a stuff, but I have to ask you - do you really believe that?

Believe what? I do think there'll be a demo, yeah. Would a punch-up on the day she's laid to rest be a fitting way to mark the passing of a woman who battered entire communities and ruined the lives of millions of people?

Yup

[PaislyShankley]

Believe what? I do think there'll be a demo, yeah. Would a punch-up on the day she's laid to rest be a fitting way to mark the passing of a woman who battered entire communities and ruined the lives of millions of people?

Yup

Can't say I agree, but it's nothing to do with politics, just the side issue of (what would turn out to be) a violent protest.

If enough people feel strongly enough about it then hold your own separate celebration.

[Voni]

I was about 10 or 11 when Thatcher left office and due to the fact that I'm not a politics fan I'm sorry to say I don't really know what she did right or what she did wrong.  Well I can think of one thing.

So please give me some pointers. Cheers.

[pantbash]

I was about 10 or 11 when Thatcher left office and due to the fact that I'm not a politics fan I'm sorry to say I don't really know what she did right or what she did wrong.  Well I can think of one thing.

So please give me some pointers. Cheers.

Really bad hair.

[Zeppelin]

I was about 10 or 11 when Thatcher left office and due to the fact that I'm not a politics fan I'm sorry to say I don't really know what she did right or what she did wrong.  Well I can think of one thing.

So please give me some pointers. Cheers.

Here's a start, from http://brightonregencylabourparty.blogspot.com/2005/10/20-reasons-why-i-hate-thatcher.html

20 REASONS WHY I HATE THATCHER

1. As Education secretary under Edward Heath in a foretaste of what is to come, stops free milk for school children. No chance of the widely praised 'free fruit' scheme ever being Tory policy! She later deregulates school meals so all they have on the menu is burger and chips! The health of the nation was not something Thatcher thought any of her concern.

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2. Shamelessly uses the 'race card' to get elected PM in 1979! (Though I wont claim her to be the first Tory leader to use this and certainly not the last!) "We are being flooded!" she asserts despite figures showing emigration higher than immigration and immigration at its lowest post-war level. Her idols are Keith Joseph (who ruined his own chance of being leader with a demon eyed rant on TV about sterilising the poor (I jest not!!)) and Enoch Powell (the 'intellectual' racist). She promotes Keith 'Eugenics' Joseph to Education Minister!

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3. Monetarism! Disastrous policy of trying to control money supply. In the first of her two recessions (the worst since the 1930's), one fifth of our industrial base is wiped out and unemployment is more than doubled, there are summer riots in every inner-city in the country. Not bad for her first 2 years in office! In the first of many U-turns (see point on 'myth of strong leader'), she abandons monetarism. Polls predict Labour landslide and despite the resolute support of the press, she is the most unpopular PM on record. How could she possibly get out of this one?

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4. The Falklands! In a gross piece of incompetence (or was it deliberate?) fails to avert the Falklands crisis by ignoring intelligence on the Argentine preparation for invasion in early 1982. Indeed she seems to positively encourage it by proposing scrapping the only warship we have there and having her defence secretary Nicholas Ridley openly say we didn't want the Falklands, thereby giving the impression we are not bothered about the islands! In 1978 when faced with the same intelligence, the Labour government quietly averts a war through diplomatic channels by threatening to send a taskforce. It's the classic tale, to divert attention from disastrous economic policies at home a crooked leader engages in a foreign war (except I'm not talking about Galtieri!). Perhaps Thatcher was getting advise from some of the brutal dictatorships she helped prop up in South America, "Would you like some more tea Mr Pinochet?". Number of British soldiers killed, 278, Argentines, 3000+. Blood on her hands anyone?

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5. Destruction of local democracy. The beauty of not having a written constitution, having the backing of the press, having a massive majority in parliament (despite only getting 42% of the vote, less than 1 in 3 of the electorate) and having a permanent inbuilt Tory hereditory second chamber is that Tory PMs can do whatever they like. If you dont like local democracy because they vote for someone else, just abolish it like Thatcher did and centralise everything from Whitehall and unelected Quangos who you carefully select. (Yes, Thatcher invented Quasi Autonomous Non-Governmental Organisations.) The popular GLC was scrapped despite over 80% of Londoners being opposed. Londoners have to wait over 13 years before getting an assembly back and electing Livingstone as its leader once again.

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6. Politicising the civil service. See point about QUANGOs above. Also if you dont like what statistics the statistics office is publishing, make sure you stop them collecting the statistics and stop them publishing them. The figures that were published on individual wealth and earnings each year were abolished in this way. The Office for National Statistics like the Bank of England was made independent by this Labour government and yes they have started publishing the wealth and earnings figures again.

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7. Regressive Taxation. Under Thatcher VAT increased from 8% to 17.5% and was also levied on utility bills for the first time as well. What she gave the rich in income tax cuts she took from the poor in indirect taxation. The proportion of GDP spent by the government under Thatcher stayed fairly static at around 40%. The difference was that rather than spend it on the NHS, housing or education she spent the money on defence, a massive expansion of the civil service (see point 6), paying the huge unemployment bill, and rising police salaries to keep them loyal in the face of massive civil unrest. The best part of all was that she shifted the burden of payment for all this onto the poor from the rich.

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8. The widening gap between rich and poor. This might not be such a bad thing if the gap had not been so massive in the first place. How can the richest 50% owning 97% of the wealth be fair? This was her starting position she moved wealth almost exclusively to the richest 10% at the expense of the poorest 50%.

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9. Spend, spend, spend! Abolishing credit controls seemed such a good idea, the economy booms on a consumer spending bubble....cue second crippling recession. Thanks Margaret! Not to mention the misery caused to millions of people suckered into debts and negative equity! Spend, spend, spend also applied to government borrowing which despite claims of financial prudence increased massively under Thatcher to fund income tax cuts for the rich.

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10. Homelessness for the young. Why should homelessness be the preserve of ageing tramps who remember the 1930's. No! Thatcher thought the opportunities should be open to all. Young beggars on the streets were Thatcher's invention. The legacy of massive youth unemployment and crime no-go areas for the police are still being fought today. There is a whole generation of people where crime and welfare culture was their only way of surviving and it became their mindset.

11. The Poll Tax! Regardless of how you view this in theory, apart from its regressive nature, it quite plainly was unworkable. They knew that it was going to be ridiculously expensive to collect, that there was overwhelming opposition to it (it ruined the 1991 census) and was going to mean massive non-payment and it was responsible for some of the worst rioting ever seen in central London but they pressed ahead anyway. Another U-turn inevitably came!

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12. The myth of the strong leader. This was a total invention of the press. Thatcher's only strength (if you could call it that) was that she had no principles at all! She was an anti-smoking campaigner who ended up on the payroll of British American Tobacco. She had to do a U-turn on her 'flagship' economic policy after 2 years because she had wrecked the economy (see point 3) (This was just one year after her famous speech in 1980 where she assured the party faithful she was going to stick to monetarist policies-"You turn if you want to...the lady's not for turning"-yeah right!!). The Poll Tax was a disaster which she had to U-turn on (but too late to save her from being stabbed in the back!). She went to Europe saying she was against federalism but signed its most federalist law (the Single European Act in 1986). She later claimed she was tricked on this. Did she even know what she was doing? Some strong leader that is! And to top it all off, even in departure she was weak. "I fight on, I fight to win" she said in her pompous way before quietly resigning hours later when confronted by Ministers like Geoffrey Howe!!! It was the final U-turn from a weak puppet leader whose only qualities (as far as the Tories were concerned) were she did what she was told.

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13. Degradation of the social professions. Social workers were virtually denounced as criminals! Teachers were so derided and there pay so eroded it barely survived as a profession and things like mental health, just loose them out on the streets, Thatcher's government didnt care what they did!

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14. Victorian Values. Yes before its Back to Basics successor under Major, Thatcher promised to take us back to Victorian morality and she nearly succeeded. We were not far away from child labour and seething slums of humanity and disease. I reckon Thatcher needed one more term for that!! She also took care to defend to the hilt her countless Ministers who were caught with their trousers down or hands in the till or both in some cases! Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer (3 times), Jonathon Aitkin (twice)... etc. etc. the list goes on.

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15. "There is no such thing as society". Did Thatcher foresee the 'playstation' generation? Selfishness as a virtue seemed to sum up her warped sense of morality to me.

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16. Over-privatisation and overt corruption. Oh the beauty of it, a totally dominant monopoly privatised at a discount price to big business (lots of it foreign owned) so they can cream off profits to their hearts content. Who can do without Water, Gas, Electricity? We can charge what we like! Plus we get the bonus of nice jobs on more Quangos OfWat, OfGas, Of-with taxpayers cash we go. With Ministers interchanging between the boardrooms of the newly privatised companies and the regulating boards on massive salaries. Even husband and wife teams, remember Mr and Mrs Howe, one a consultant with a privatised firm, his wife the regulator. Anyone for insider dealing calls out Mrs Archer! Oh jolly good show! Even industries that plainly werent feasible for privatisation like bus and rail, go for it, it wont hurt. And what shall we do with the money my dear? Well my son Mark has shares in a nice defence firm! Rather, still some left over for a nice reduction in the top rate of income tax as well.

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17. Even public service broadcasting couldnt escape. Relentless bullying of the BBC was started by Thatcher, she took this to a new level with Tebbit and various other ministers calling it the Bolshevic Broadcasting Company because it failed to replicate Sun editorial lines in its news broadcasts. In one of her last acts she even managed to wreck Channel 4' s public service commitment by changing its funding situation from one of subscription from ITV who sold its advertising space to total dependence on advertising.

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18. The divisiveness of the North-South divide in wealth. Look at the political map and you can still see where the Conservatives win most of their seats in the South East because of this.

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19. Regular winter crises in the NHS became the norm. The Tories argued these were inevitable because we couldnt afford to fund the NHS properly. There are no winter crises anymore!

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20. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher. This is probably the most surprising statistic of the lot when you consider the Tories so called strong standing on law and order. It just goes to demonstrate why we need a history lesson about Thatcher and not the lies printed in the right wing owned press.

There are, of course many more reasons - everyone will have their own - personally, I would go for the way the police force were used as a political force during the miners' strike, her part in the destruction of Liverpool's economy and the way the infrastructure of the country continues to struggle due to privatisation and deregulation of public transport.
   

[CHOPPER]

This lady's not fit for burning

[DannyD]

I was about 10 or 11 when Thatcher left office and due to the fact that I'm not a politics fan I'm sorry to say I don't really know what she did right or what she did wrong.  Well I can think of one thing.

So please give me some pointers. Cheers.

She talked dead posh too

[redchiz]

She talked dead posh too

Actually she didn't. She had a rather nasal accent and took intensive speech improvement training when she first became Tory leader.

[Kahuna{=}Berger]

Fuck. Haven't seen any news yet today and I though for a moment the c*nt was dead.



Ah well, shouldn't be long now.

[That Kennedy moment]

Hooray! This is good news and well deserved.

Ok, let's have the big state funeral. Long as Elvis Costello gets to read the service

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF-8kGYlt_w

[Zeppelin]

Ok, let's have the big state funeral. Long as Elvis Costello gets to read the service

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF-8kGYlt_w

Tramp the dirt down - Elvis Costello

I saw a newspaper picture from the political campaign
A woman was kissing a child, who was obviously in pain
She spills with compassion, as that young childs
Face in her hands she grips
Can you imagine all that greed and avarice
Coming down on that childs lips

Well I hope I dont die too soon
I pray the lord my soul to save
Oh Ill be a good boy, Im trying so hard to behave
Because theres one thing I know, Id like to live
Long enough to savour
Thats when they finally put you in the ground
Ill stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

When england was the whore of the world
Margeret was her madam
And the future looked as bright and as clear as
The black tarmacadam
Well I hope that she sleeps well at night, isnt
Haunted by every tiny detail
cos when she held that lovely face in her hands
All she thought of was betrayal

And now the cynical ones say that it all ends the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just squeezed the life from his only son
And how its only voices in your head and dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between justice and contempt
Try telling me she isnt angry with this pitiful discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up for punishment
And then expect you to say thank you straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because youve only got the symptoms, you havent got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose heads like a tin-can
Filled up with dreams then poured down the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being blown to bits or beaten and maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame

Well I hope you live long now, I pray the lord your soul to keep
I think Ill be going before we fold our arms and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life could be so cheap
cos when they finally put you in the ground
Theyll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down

[Commie Bobbie]

The bitch can't die quick enough....

[Sarge]

'commoner' - What a fucking sickening term. Fuck off you c*nt and those who support you.

That is all i have to say. Good day.

[fletcheri]

Would this be the first example of a whore being given a state funeral?

[PaislyShankley]

'commoner' - What a fucking sickening term. Fuck off you c*nt and those who support you.

That is all i have to say. Good day.

There's no need to take your anger out on Kennedy.

[SP]

Would this be the first example of a whore being given a state funeral?

No one fucked her (well not until 1990). She fucked an awful lot of the population.