Topic: Liverpool's Midfield

[PhaseOfPlay]

Teams are running through our midfield like how they did when rodgers was managing us. There is just no sync between our 3 midfielders. Hope we sort out all the tactical and positional aspects of our game soon.

Teams didn't run through our midfield when Rodgers managed us. The played over it, and played through our defence which was spread out side to side

[JackWard33]

Repeated Sprint Ability (RSA) is the phrase you're looking for

Or "Speed Endurance" in old money

Thats the fella

[Giono]

Fabinho, Hendo and Gini must be an intimidating midfield to face, before the match starts. I can imagine teams wondering how they will get through that...after being closed down by Bobby and before being snuffed out by Virgil.

[lionel_messias]

Teams are running through our midfield like how they did when rodgers was managing us. There is just no sync between our 3 midfielders. Hope we sort out all the tactical and positional aspects of our game soon.

13 wins in a row. I'm super worried about this thing you've identified.

[PhaseOfPlay]

13 wins in a row. I'm super worried about this thing you've identified.

You're only looking at the scoreboard, though.

The thing Bolrick "identified" was a thing. And it has been improved (I hate to say it) by Milner not starting games. His positional play had been leaving us empty in midfield all preseason and the first few games of the season that he started. Henderson, Fab and Gini gives us back the compactness we need to compensate for the width of our fullbacks and the pressing work of Mane and Firmino.

[Eeyore]

13 wins in a row. I'm super worried about this thing you've identified.

One more win than we achieved in 89/90 I am sure no one was worried about what the future would hold then. Thirty years later and still stuck on 18 League titles maybe there isn't a problem with trying to improve.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

You're only looking at the scoreboard, though.

The thing Bolrick "identified" was a thing. And it has been improved (I hate to say it) by Milner not starting games. His positional play had been leaving us empty in midfield all preseason and the first few games of the season that he started. Henderson, Fab and Gini gives us back the compactness we need to compensate for the width of our fullbacks and the pressing work of Mane and Firmino.

Milner tends to drift out wide like a fullback a lot. With the reintegration of Ox, and hopefully Keita once he's back from injury, Milner imo will be used sparingly.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Milner tends to drift out wide like a fullback a lot. With the reintegration of Ox, and hopefully Keita once he's back from injury, Milner imo will be used sparingly.

Absolutely, and on both sides, too, not even to cover one fullback. It's admirable work ethic, but it doesn't do much for the midfield compactness we need

[PoetryInMotion]

Fabinho, Hendo and Gini must be an intimidating midfield to face, before the match starts. I can imagine teams wondering how they will get through that...after being closed down by Bobby and before being snuffed out by Virgil.

Oh I agree. You have the three attacking players (Firmino, Mane and Salah) swarming over the opposition first and if they pass the ball through that, then they have three monsters in midfield (Hendo, Fabinho and Gini) competing the duels and then getting to the 2nd balls, while also circulating the ball efficiently. If you try to bypass this midfield and put the ball over, you have Matip and Van Dijk mopping up everything, so it's a daunting thing to face as an opposition. Get back Alisson and then we'll have 1 more layer of wall under 3 hard layers.

All this gives complete freedom for our full-backs, which is why they're able to get forward with ease and get all those assists without worrying about balls played behind them. And they're also good defenders when needed/when they get back to defend.

[Giono]

Milner tends to drift out wide like a fullback a lot. With the reintegration of Ox, and hopefully Keita once he's back from injury, Milner imo will be used sparingly.

Hendo does too sometimes. When they both play things can open up in the middle at times.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Hendo does too sometimes. When they both play things can open up in the middle at times.

While this is true, I think it would be also fair to say that Henderson tends to drift to one side only (the right), whereas Milner tends to operate on both flanks. That leaves a lot of work for Fabinho to do in the middle

[PoetryInMotion]

While this is true, I think it would be also fair to say that Henderson tends to drift to one side only (the right), whereas Milner tends to operate on both flanks. That leaves a lot of work for Fabinho to do in the middle

Also, I think Hendo drifts to the wide mostly during attacking transitions, especially when there's an opening to combine with Trent/Salah or when there's space to run. He doesn't do it otherwise, so that reduces the chances of him being caught wide when we lose the ball. Also, defensively he covers the central areas most of the time, only goes wide when Trent is awol or too far high up. I think there's more balance in how Hendo drifts wide than to how Milner drifts wide.

It's also probably got to do with the fact that Milner developed as a wide player first, so it's what he knows best.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Also, I think Hendo drifts to the wide mostly during attacking transitions, especially when there's an opening to combine with Trent/Salah or when there's space to run. He doesn't do it otherwise, so that reduces the chances of him being caught wide when we lose the ball. Also, defensively he covers the central areas most of the time, only goes wide when Trent is awol or too far high up. I think there's more balance in how Hendo drifts wide than to how Milner drifts wide.

It's also probably got to do with the fact that Milner developed as a wide player first, so it's what he knows best.

Yep!

[Nessy76]

Also, I think Hendo drifts to the wide mostly during attacking transitions, especially when there's an opening to combine with Trent/Salah or when there's space to run. He doesn't do it otherwise, so that reduces the chances of him being caught wide when we lose the ball. Also, defensively he covers the central areas most of the time, only goes wide when Trent is awol or too far high up. I think there's more balance in how Hendo drifts wide than to how Milner drifts wide.

It's also probably got to do with the fact that Milner developed as a wide player first, so it's what he knows best.

Hendo also played wide early on. (We basically signed him to whip in crosses for Andy Carroll.) I noticed in the last few matches he is overlapping Trent there a lot now, on the edge of the box. Looks good there, too. Time and a place for it.

[hesbighesred]

Absolutely, and on both sides, too, not even to cover one fullback. It's admirable work ethic, but it doesn't do much for the midfield compactness we need

It's why I'd like to see his main minutes coming from cover for both full backs!

[PhaseOfPlay]

It's why I'd like to see his main minutes coming from cover for both full backs!

I think his main minutes will now come from calming Mane down

[hesbighesred]

Hendo also played wide early on. (We basically signed him to whip in crosses for Andy Carroll.) I noticed in the last few matches he is overlapping Trent there a lot now, on the edge of the box. Looks good there, too. Time and a place for it.

And that particular alternation is also more logical because if Hendo goes wide, TAA is more than happy to accept the underlap and either burst into the box or stay on the edge of it doing the probing/circulating/through pass thing. In fact he probably does it more effectively than Henderson. On the other flank, while Robertson has improved at this, he's still very limited in central areas in comparison to what he can do out wide.

[hesbighesred]

I think his main minutes will now come from calming Mane down

Manes Main man mostly made Milner's minutes.

[Hazell]

I think his main minutes will now come from calming Mane down

Manes Main man mostly made Milner's minutes.

There's a Mane with a mullet going mad with a mallet in Millets.

[Djozer]

Hendo also played wide early on. (We basically signed him to whip in crosses for Andy Carroll.) I noticed in the last few matches he is overlapping Trent there a lot now, on the edge of the box. Looks good there, too. Time and a place for it.

Aye, Hendo seems to do pretty well out there. I reckon he's one of our best crossers, and actually think he'd do a bloody job at RB if he ever has too. Think we've only seen him there once or twice for us, but he might have to play the role a touch more this year, depending on injuries. Doing a nice job in midfield at the minute though, and it's good to see.

[Giono]

It's why I'd like to see his main minutes coming from cover for both full backs!

He can't really run up and down the wing all match anymore. He's human after all.

[PhaseOfPlay]

He can't really run up and down the wing all match anymore. He's human after all.

Henderson? Of course he can. What do you think he's doing in the central midfield now?

[Geppvindh's]

While this is true, I think it would be also fair to say that Henderson tends to drift to one side only (the right), whereas Milner tends to operate on both flanks. That leaves a lot of work for Fabinho to do in the middle

PoP - do you think this is hard to coach out of him? At this age and stage of his career, is it a worthy exercise?

[hitnrock]

I think people are underestimating the positive side of Milner & Henderson playing like auxillary full backs.
I thought it worked really well against Arsenal when Wijnaldum and Henderson did it. It caused Guendouzi & Torreira to drift wide marking them both and leaving Xhaka completely isolated against Firmino and Fabinho.
We leave Fabinho all alone but we compress the space with a very high line so it's relatively less space for him to deal with and we don't suffer as much. Whoever plays that role for us generally has an engine on them and we end up tiring the opponent midfield.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I think people are underestimating the positive side of Milner & Henderson playing like auxillary full backs.
I thought it worked really well against Arsenal when Wijnaldum and Henderson did it. It caused Guendouzi & Torreira to drift wide marking them both and leaving Xhaka completely isolated against Firmino and Fabinho.
We leave Fabinho all alone but we compress the space with a very high line so it's relatively less space for him to deal with and we don't suffer as much. Whoever plays that role for us generally has an engine on them and we end up tiring the opponent midfield.

It's less vertical space. But the space either side of him makes him open to being played around.

[PhaseOfPlay]

PoP - do you think this is hard to coach out of him? At this age and stage of his career, is it a worthy exercise?

I'm sure the coaching staff can put restrictions on his positioning, but habits are habits, so I don't know how structured and disciplined he could be for a full 90 minutes.

[kcbworth]

We had lots of defenders and lots of forwards nominated for fifpro team of the year (and some that used to play for us too), but no midfielders https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49590798

Surprised that Gini wasnt nominated at least

[CraigDS]

We had lots of defenders and lots of forwards nominated for fifpro team of the year (and some that used to play for us too), but no midfielders https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49590798

Surprised that Gini wasnt nominated at least

Yeah noticed this yesterday.

Genuinely amazed we can win the CL and be within 1 point of winning the PL (with a massive points total) and not one of our midfielders is considered good enough to get in a 15 man shortlist.

An injury plagued de Bruyne got in there though... 

[Zizou]

Yeah noticed this yesterday.

Genuinely amazed we can win the CL and be within 1 point of winning the PL (with a massive points total) and not one of our midfielders is considered good enough to get in a 15 man shortlist.

An injury plagued de Bruyne got in there though... 

And fucking Pogba, who at this point is basically a meme.

[ac]

When is Keita supposed to be back? Our midfield is crying out for someone of his abilities https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/naby-keita-hope-jurgen-klopp-16878491

[SteveZissou]

I know most of you are afraid of criticising your wife, but I am going to say it, I feel as though Naby Keita is that kind of player who will be out injured every season for at least one period of 4 to 6 weeks. And probably another period where he is out for 3 to 4 weeks. He doesn't play that much anyway, but when he comes back for a few games, get's tangled in a knock and I'm thinking 'Here we go again." Which is a pity, because I love the man.

Then you know he is going to have a season where he only gets the normal small injuries for a week or two out, but then he is so afraid that he doesn't exert himself in the same type of physical battles anymore. As his husband it doesn't affect me so much because I already got something better on the side, but I'm hoping my trophy wife lives up to it one day, after all she is very demanding when going out shopping.

[El Lobo]

[PhaseOfPlay]

I know most of you are afraid of criticising your wife, but I am going to say it, I feel as though Naby Keita is that kind of player who will be out injured every season for at least one period of 4 to 6 weeks. And probably another period where he is out for 3 to 4 weeks. He doesn't play that much anyway, but when he comes back for a few games, get's tangled in a knock and I'm thinking 'Here we go again." Which is a pity, because I love the man.

Then you know he is going to have a season where he only gets the normal small injuries for a week or two out, but then he is so afraid that he doesn't exert himself in the same type of physical battles anymore. As his husband it doesn't affect me so much because I already got something better on the side, but I'm hoping my trophy wife lives up to it one day, after all she is very demanding when going out shopping.

[Sinyoro]

I know most of you are afraid of criticising your wife, but I am going to say it, I feel as though Naby Keita is that kind of player who will be out injured every season for at least one period of 4 to 6 weeks. And probably another period where he is out for 3 to 4 weeks. He doesn't play that much anyway, but when he comes back for a few games, get's tangled in a knock and I'm thinking 'Here we go again." Which is a pity, because I love the man.

Then you know he is going to have a season where he only gets the normal small injuries for a week or two out, but then he is so afraid that he doesn't exert himself in the same type of physical battles anymore. As his husband it doesn't affect me so much because I already got something better on the side, but I'm hoping my trophy wife lives up to it one day, after all she is very demanding when going out shopping.

What?

[Bjornar]

I'm sure the coaching staff can put restrictions on his positioning, but habits are habits, so I don't know how structured and disciplined he could be for a full 90 minutes.

I'm not qualified to spot things like this myself, but on the face of it it seems hard to believe a player as experienced and seemingly open to instruction as Milner is doing anything Klopp wouldn't want him to at this point, when it comes to positioning and movement.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I'm not qualified to spot things like this myself, but on the face of it it seems hard to believe a player as experienced and seemingly open to instruction as Milner is doing anything Klopp wouldn't want him to at this point, when it comes to positioning and movement.

The proof would be in whether other midfielders who replace Milner are doing the same things. But they're not.

[Bjornar]

The proof would be in whether other midfielders who replace Milner are doing the same things. But they're not.

Fair enough, but in part the proof surely also will be in whether he continues to get games starting from midfield as well.

(It's not that I doubt that Milner taking up wide positions has repercussions for our defensive shape, more that it might be a calculated gamble we sometimes perhaps want to make?)

[PhaseOfPlay]

Fair enough, but in part the proof surely also will be in whether he continues to get games starting from midfield as well.

(It's not that I doubt that Milner taking up wide positions has repercussions for our defensive shape, more that it might be a calculated gamble we sometimes perhaps want to make?)

You could be right, but I believe it come more from a life time of playing on the wing and being more comfortable in that space. Central midfield is - as far as I'm concerned - the toughest position to play in. You have to be really comfortable seeing the game in 360 degrees and playing on the turn or half turn. But not every player likes to see the game like that. A lot prefer the game in 180 degrees, either up front, on the sides or at the back.

[Bjornar]

I believe it come more from a life time of playing on the wing and being more comfortable in that space.

Yes, I'm not suggesting he's being told to take up wide positions, more that it doesn't look like he's being instructed to reign in this natural tendency of his too much either. So maybe the coaching staff sees it partly as a feature of his game it's worth making use of to some extent, even if there's risk involved. 

[Redman78]

I know most of you are afraid of criticising your wife, but I am going to say it, I feel as though Naby Keita is that kind of player who will be out injured every season for at least one period of 4 to 6 weeks. And probably another period where he is out for 3 to 4 weeks. He doesn't play that much anyway, but when he comes back for a few games, get's tangled in a knock and I'm thinking 'Here we go again." Which is a pity, because I love the man.

Then you know he is going to have a season where he only gets the normal small injuries for a week or two out, but then he is so afraid that he doesn't exert himself in the same type of physical battles anymore. As his husband it doesn't affect me so much because I already got something better on the side, but I'm hoping my trophy wife lives up to it one day, after all she is very demanding when going out shopping.

I think Cantona has had an influence here!