Topic: General Manchester City thread

[MrGrumpy]

Manchester City could sign Messi, Kaka, Alonso and Villa and would still play in the same way. Signing the worlds best players as Madrid have proved doesn't make you the best team, but that's only half their problem. Mancini doesn't impress me, his tactics are from Serie A circa 1992.

[b_joseph]

Manchester City could sign Messi, Kaka, Alonso and Villa and would still play in the same way. Signing the worlds best players as Madrid have proved doesn't make you the best team, but that's only half their problem. Mancini doesn't impress me, his tactics are from Serie A circa 1992.

It would have worked for Madrid if they werent playing in the same era as the best team of all time.

Eventually City will throw enough shit at the wall and it will stick. Are they completely defensive? Yes but if you keep clean sheets and then add a couple more match winners, you can go a long way.

[jaffod]

It would have worked for Madrid if they werent playing in the same era as the best team of all time.

Eventually City will throw enough shit at the wall and it will stick. Are they completely defensive? Yes but if you keep clean sheets and then add a couple more match winners, you can go a long way.

Biggest problem they may have is keeping hold of the best match-winner they have now. Tevez pretty much carries them, without him they are fucking ordinary.

[b_joseph]

Biggest problem they may have is keeping hold of the best match-winner they have now. Tevez pretty much carries them, without him they are fucking ordinary.

Agreed but they have all the money in the world to find a replacement. Ideally they will want to keep him and add to what they have but things happen fairly easily when you can write blank cheques.

[Johnny C]

its a steady process.what did you expect??
roman took over chelsea in 03 i think.they did not win anything in their first season either.

mancini is defensive sure but that's not  a crime.
the goal at the begining of the season was a cl place.they got that plus the final.
fair play to them.should be interesting to see who they go for in the summer.

I know what you are trying to say, but given the amount of money that they tied up in long-term contracts, the results simply weren't enough.

Abramovich's money took a good Chelsea team from 4th up to 2nd in his first year, losing out to the Arsenal Invincibles.  While that Chelsea's team's wages were #1 in the league, they only finished 1 position off from there.  More or less inline with expectations.

All of Mansour's money just took City from 5th up to 4th, despite being likely a massive 1.5-2 standard deviations away from the mean in terms of EPL wages.  That type of investment acumen/return gets your ass fired in a normal investment job.

Anyway, they drunkenly barged their way into the dance.  Let's see what moves they have.  My money is on more underperformance.

The funny thing is that Cook, Mancini, Mansour, et. al. had a real opportunity to do things the right way and still throw gobs of money around, but they chose the all-to-easy & unsustainable path.

[drpepe]

I know what you are trying to say, but given the amount of money that they tied up in long-term contracts, the results simply weren't enough.

Abramovich's money took a good Chelsea team from 4th up to 2nd in his first year, losing out to the Arsenal Invincibles.  While that Chelsea's team's wages were #1 in the league, they only finished 1 position off from there.  More or less inline with expectations.

All of Mansour's money just took City from 5th up to 4th, despite being likely a massive 1.5-2 standard deviations away from the mean in terms of EPL wages.  That type of investment acumen/return gets your ass fired in a normal investment job.

Anyway, they drunkenly barged their way into the dance.  Let's see what moves they have.  My money is on more underperformance.

The funny thing is that Cook, Mancini, Mansour, et. al. had a real opportunity to do things the right way and still throw gobs of money around, but they chose the all-to-easy & unsustainable path.

what do they actually want to achieve long-term?

 It seems a totally whacky business model as they are never going to build up a huge global support - look how hard it has been for chelsea....

[Cusamano]

When you literally have billions you dont need a business model.

Like a previous poster said, throw enough shit and eventually it will stick.

[Flinstone]

Anyway, they drunkenly barged their way into the dance.  Let's see what moves they have.  My money is on more underperformance.

funny thing is they have not really underperformed.they are a defensive team who set out to get the odd goal and defend it and they do it well.
sure for spending 400 m odd you would want a attacking free flowing team but for city fans owners and the manager the first priority was playing in europe.job done.

if the style of football is an issue mancini will get the sack,and they will get someone experienced in europe.
if not hell prob get another 200 m in the summer.

people may hate what they are doing and how they are going about doing it but for the sheer competition value they will add next season to the premier league you have to thank them.

[Flinstone]

what do they actually want to achieve long-term?

 It seems a totally whacky business model as they are never going to build up a huge global support - look how hard it has been for chelsea....

this is a club backed by a royal family.money is not an issue.initially i think they just want success.they will do anything to get it.

in the long term they will obviously want the club to become self sufficient.i think roman was trying it this season with the push of youngsters in the first team.needless to say it failed.how it goes with city remains to be seen.

[Dowling10]

Thing is, although they have under performed on the pitch, at the end of the season they haven't really.

There in a cup final and in the champions league. That was pretty much their aim I'm guessing? There going to be equally dangerous next year if not better. It's going to be a tough season next season.

I am confident though under Kenny.

[Johnny C]

what do they actually want to achieve long-term?

It seems a totally whacky business model as they are never going to build up a huge global support - look how hard it has been for chelsea....

That's a great point.  Even with United (and Chelsea somewhat) you can argue that there is a plan in place not just to win, but for the sustainability of the overall Club.  I have never ever heard one City supporter indicate that there was an actual plan in place other than to simply throw money at problems.

For instance, look what they did with some of these new kids that they are bringing into their reserves.  They are signing 16yr olds to 4 yr deals and signing them to £25-40k per week on day one (and then escalating from there).  It's just plain idiotic to try to grow your teenage talent that way.

No one can throw this unrealistic level of money at a "project" forever.

Am convinced that the day that Berlusconi decides to sell Milan (or something like Juve), that Mansour will discard City like a new pair of shoes that were never a good fit and that never shined the way he wanted them to.

[Zanchent]

Champions League, cup final = Succcess.

With a completely new team over two years, they've not done an awful lot wrong.

what do they actually want to achieve long-term?

 It seems a totally whacky business model as they are never going to build up a huge global support - look how hard it has been for chelsea....

Lucky them.

[drpepe]

Champions League, cup final = Succcess.

With a completely new team over two years, they've not done an awful lot wrong.

Lucky them.

 

[Johnny C]

funny thing is they have not really underperformed.they are a defensive team who set out to get the odd goal and defend it and they do it well.

sure for spending 400 m odd you would want a attacking free flowing team but for city fans owners and the manager the first priority was playing in europe.job done.

I am going to respectfully disagree here.  City did MASSIVELY UNDERPERFORM this season.

I am not talking about the Italian or Mourinho-style-of-play that some are criticizing.

Rather I am talking very specifically about the very direct correlation between Player Wages Spent and Final League Position.  The correlation over the past 20 years in England is something like 0.93 or 0.94.

So essentially if you are #1 in Player Wages you should finish #1 in the League Table.  If you are #7 in Player Wages you should finish #7 in the League Table.

City are most certainly #1 in Player Wages.  We won't find out for a few months, but City could be #1 in Player Wages by £40-50M difference to the next closest team!

Anything not #1 or #2 in the League this season represents massive underperformance by City's Club/Team/Manager.  I'll let the people who follow City more closely than me comment on where the underperformance came from, but make no mistake about it.... this team should have finished much higher than they did.

Kudos to them for having CL football next season, but anyone who looks @ and considers performance will tell you that this team should have performed much much better this season than they did.

(Aside:  And for what it's worth LFC @ 5th currently is more or less inline with expectations from a wage perspective even with lugging around expensive wet carpets like Joe-£20M-Cole)

[Flinstone]

I am going to respectfully disagree here.  City did MASSIVELY UNDERPERFORM this season.

I am not talking about the Italian or Mourinho-style-of-play that some are criticizing.

Rather I am talking very specifically about the very direct correlation between Player Wages Spent and Final League Position.  The correlation over the past 20 years in England is something like 0.93 or 0.94.

So essentially if you are #1 in Player Wages you should finish #1 in the League Table.  If you are #7 in Player Wages you should finish #7 in the League Table.

City are most certainly #1 in Player Wages.  We won't find out for a few months, but City could be #1 in Player Wages by £40-50M difference to the next closest team!

Anything not #1 or #2 in the League this season represents massive underperformance by City's Club/Team/Manager.  I'll let the people who follow City more closely than me comment on where the underperformance came from, but make no mistake about it.... this team should have finished much higher than they did.

Kudos to them for having CL football next season, but anyone who looks @ and considers performance will tell you that this team should have performed much much better this season than they did.

(Aside:  And for what it's worth LFC @ 5th currently is more or less inline with expectations from a wage perspective even with lugging around expensive wet carpets like Joe-£20M-Cole)

that would be the case for a normal football club.
the quality of the player is in propotion to the amount paid for him which is in proprtion to the wages he pulls in.

that is not the case for manchester city.they may have the highest wages for sure but thats because they aren't really concerned about the long term ramifications.
the players they have
lescott,kolarov,milner,barry,jo,wright-phillips etc were either bought for obscene amounts of money or probably pull in large wages or both.

in terms of actual quality most of the are probably shit and would find it difficult to get into the traditional big 4 clubs.for the amount of money spent any well run sane club would expect more for sure,but this is city and for the actual qualty of players they have i dont think they could have done much better than fourth.

[Frank.]

its a steady process.what did you expect??
roman took over chelsea in 03 i think.they did not win anything in their first season either.

mancini is defensive sure but that's not  a crime.
the goal at the begining of the season was a cl place.they got that plus the final.
fair play to them.should be interesting to see who they go for in the summer.

Took Chelsea less than 2 years to win the league, it's taken City 3 to get up 5 places.

[fosspowered]

Took Chelsea less than 2 years to win the league, it's taken City 3 to get up 5 places.

Didn't Chelsea already break into a CL place before the Russian took over them? City were always mid-table/lower half team.

[Lastrador]

Vincent Kompany is a total beast of a player, can't believe he only cost around £6 million , best centreback in the league by far this season and he's only 25 .

[Red_Isle_Chap]

So, for those saying that getting 4th is part of the success for them this year what happens if (and yes i know it's hypothetical) go into the CL qualifiers next season and are on the end of a everton-in-europe style drubbing at the hands of one of europes big boys? It can happen very easily, CL qualification isn't a walk in the park and honestly, I watched both their legs against Dynamo Kiev and Kiev were so much better than city it wasn't even funny.

I'm just saying that before anyone says "getting 4th is a sucess for this season", it's not yet. If they get through the qualifiers and into the CL then fair play, success. If they crash out, then what? Especially as their owners are going to throw silly money around again in the summer (of that there's surely no doubt). For next season, if that happens, then anything under third has to be an unmitigated disaster for them.

[BigMarcs]

Congratulations to City for getting the 4th spot. A lot of people are bagging them saying they've underachieved, but they've got the top 4 spot sewn with 2 rounds left and most like FA cup winners. Not too shabby I reckon. Next year they'll be even better with a few more additions coming out and a lot of dead wood removed.

[BIGdavalad]

A lot of people are bagging them saying they've underachieved, but they've got the top 4 spot sewn with 2 rounds left and most like FA cup winners.

Outstanding result considering they've spent about a trillion quid.

Next year they'll be even better with a few more additions coming out and a lot of dead wood removed.

Not a chance they'll clear out even half of their dead wood. No-one in their right mind's going to pay a quarter of the wages those dickheads do. The dead wood will be out on loan and City will be paying 60% of their wages until their contracts run out. Personally I'm expecting another procession of second and third tier players being signed for the kind of money a real big club could get any player outside Messi for and a humiliation in the Qualifying Round of the Champions League next season.

[synthesis]

They'll be a force next season. It's not easy to get into the top 4 these days, and I think if they qualify for the CL (they have a potentially tough playoff as they won't be seeded) they'll do reasonably well.. Mancini makes errors but he learns.

[mattsant]

Congrats, but hope you get flattened in the qualifiers

[cox3100]

for the amount of money shitty have spent theyre still shite


thay should be challenging for the title not 4th,when you spend 350 million on average then you get what you pay for

Edin Dzeko-a poor(er) mans torres- a forward that doesnt score goals
Gareth Barry-thank fuck we dodged that bullet
James Milner-what the fuck happened to him,looked ok at villa
Aleksandar Kolarov-what diod city see in him because he looks very very average
Mario Balloteli-the guy is a fucking nut job,and so far not very good


i could go on but i cant be arsed

city are shit

[Finn Solomon]

Lets hope they do an Everton and crash out to Red Bull Salzburg or something.

[Promised to never post on RAWK again]

When you literally have billions you dont need a business model.

Of course you do ... With the introduction of the FFP rules, they won't be able to spend unlimited amounts of money ... Personally, I think that they have missed the chance to create a true title challenging team, although they have some good players ... They will be in the top 4 for a foreseeable future, but not the clear favorites for the PL title ...

[FOOT]

I am going to respectfully disagree here.  City did MASSIVELY UNDERPERFORM this season.

I am not talking about the Italian or Mourinho-style-of-play that some are criticizing.

Rather I am talking very specifically about the very direct correlation between Player Wages Spent and Final League Position.  The correlation over the past 20 years in England is something like 0.93 or 0.94.

So essentially if you are #1 in Player Wages you should finish #1 in the League Table.  If you are #7 in Player Wages you should finish #7 in the League Table.

City are most certainly #1 in Player Wages.  We won't find out for a few months, but City could be #1 in Player Wages by £40-50M difference to the next closest team!

Anything not #1 or #2 in the League this season represents massive underperformance by City's Club/Team/Manager.  I'll let the people who follow City more closely than me comment on where the underperformance came from, but make no mistake about it.... this team should have finished much higher than they did.

Kudos to them for having CL football next season, but anyone who looks @ and considers performance will tell you that this team should have performed much much better this season than they did.

(Aside:  And for what it's worth LFC @ 5th currently is more or less inline with expectations from a wage perspective even with lugging around expensive wet carpets like Joe-£20M-Cole)

Bloody hell - you just took 26 years off me.

Wednesday morning - double maths     

[redtel]

Johnny C is spot on with his maths and correlation between wages and league position.

For those not doing the maths, just look at Manchester City playing. We thought Hodgson's tactics were poor, how would you like to watch the shite Manchester City have churned out every week? They have underperformed no question.

If Stoke turn them over on Saturday, and I think they will follow Brum's success in the LCF, then the words "successful season" all hinge on who they draw and how they perform in the CL qualifier. They were typically dross against Dinamo Kiev so let's just hold back on any plaudits for Bobby Manc  and his cohorts until they actually enter a lettered group.

The wage bill at Manchester City is probably clear No.1 but the quality of the players signed is a notch or two below that. Tevez will be off so they need a decent striker as their current big No9 is way below what they will need to unlock defences in the CL.

[Roger Federer]

Rather I am talking very specifically about the very direct correlation between Player Wages Spent and Final League Position.  T

That's true in general, but then City pays wages no other club would, and it makes comparisons with the rest of the league quite meaningless. There is far less correlation between the wages City pay, and the quality of their players, than in other clubs in England and Europe.

The likes of Kolarov, Milner, Barry, Kolo Toure probably got higher wages than most players in their respetive postion, but none of them are more than average anyway. They don't get better just because they earn ridiculous sums of money.

[BurnCK]

I'm just amazed at their shockingly shite return for the money they've spent. £384m net spent in the last four transfer windows, and they barely manage to grab fourth. Whichever way you put it, that's just abysmal. Who's in charge of buying players over there?

Just look at some of the players they've bought, and the prices
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/manchester-city-transfers.html

Barely ?? 7 points ahead of 5th....2 points behind 3rd, 5 points behind 2nd. Finishing 3rd isn't completely out of the question yet.

I completely agree that we've spent loads and paid over the odds...but who cares ? No-one that matters anyway (i.e. City fans, the owners, etc).

[CorKopite]

I really hope they crash out in the qualifiers. Cant see it happening, particularly as this summer theyre no doubt going to spend ridiculous money on players that probably couldn't tell you what colour Man City played in pre Arab takeover, but it would be hilarious. Im delighted Mancini will probably be in charge next season though, the team looks useless under him half the time, particularly away from home.

[andymanlfc]

What's all this about two "mind-blowing" players that they have apparently signed?

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

What's all this about two "mind-blowing" players that they have apparently signed?

One of them is David Icke.

[mcfc1]

What's all this about two "mind-blowing" players that they have apparently signed?

I think it was 'Arry trying to unsettle some of our current players, unless they're from Spurs I highly doubt he knows anything.

[Hunter Thompson]

If Mancini had any balls City could have put in a serious challenge for the title this season. Really hope he keeps his job.

[Crosby Nick]

One of them is David Icke.

And Kurt Cobain.

[Grobbelrevell]

If Mancini had any balls City could have put in a serious challenge for the title this season. Really hope he keeps his job.

I'd agree with that. They're far too negative away from home, especially considering the squad they have at their disposal. They really should be looking at going anywhere - home and away - and winning the game. Their mentality should remain the same. Instead they play for a draw with the mentality of "anything else is a bonus" and it's cost them.

If that mentality isn't changed and they truly start believing that they are capable of challenging for the league and everything else then they will continue to fall short.

[mcfc1]

I like Mancini but I think he's too stubborn, the way him and Tevez are acting is something you'd see children doing.

I think the meeting with Tevez after he handed in his transfer request went along the lines of 'Him and me'. Its more than likely that Tevez will be leaving but there have been reports that Mancini wants to walk at the end of the season to spend time with his ill father.

[Grobbelrevell]

there have been reports that Mancini wants to walk at the end of the season to spend time with his ill father.

To be honest mate, I think that would probably be doing you a favour. With a better manager (Rafa?) you would be serious challengers next season. With Mancini? I'm not convinced.

[mcfc1]

To be honest mate, I think that would probably be doing you a favour. With a better manager (Rafa?) you would be serious challengers next season. With Mancini? I'm not convinced.

Obviously it depends on who is in line to replace him if he does go, It would be criminal to sack him. He just doesn't seem to give any of the players any confidence in their abilities, always criticising them on the pitch.

I don't think Benitez would be ideal for us, we have many defensive players at City and I think he suits a more attacking approach. We are pretty similar to Inter and he didn't do too well there. We have the money to invest in the players he wants but I suppose we have to start considering the FFP rules.

Can we have Dalglish?