Poll

So.. You're in the seat of power.. What do you do?

Nothing. It'll all blow over
Use sanctions as they are being used now
Use sanctions, but dramatically increase them
Use sanctions, but force all political parties to declare all monies and get rid of the taint of corruption all around. Donate all monies to Ukranian charities
Do 4, but also threaten military action
Do 4, but stage troops on all Nato borders
Do 4, but steam on in. Dr. Strangelove country
I like radioactive cheese

Author Topic: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?  (Read 3561 times)

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« on: March 13, 2022, 09:06:41 am »
As a separate discussion to the main thread. What could/can/should be done to bring this whole horrible mess to a close?

(Obviously delete if you feel this shouldn't be here mods)

Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2022, 10:38:37 am »
It seems the cheese option is popular again. Could we have a separate thread on which kind of cheese? Plus another vote.
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2022, 10:46:49 am »
It seems the cheese option is popular again. Could we have a separate thread on which kind of cheese? Plus another vote.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that cheese is the answer to all these questions.

Is there anything it CAN'T do?
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline blert596

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2022, 12:32:16 pm »
It wouldn't surprise me to find out that cheese is the answer to all these questions.

Is there anything it CAN'T do?

Well, its no Bonjella!!!
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Offline TipTopKop

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2022, 04:50:42 pm »
I voted for the cheese. The reality though is some form of diplomatic discussions and efforts have to be the only way out of this.

As someone mentioned, they could both save face, scale back and go back to some kind of peace/standoff.

Sanctions work up to a point, but with oligarchs having backdoors to their UK properties, and food/energy prices going up in the UK, it's not only Russia who is getting squeezed.

This isn't Saddam/Gaddaffi that you can surround and do something to. They wield a big stick, and it's in all of humanity's interest they don't feel the need to go there.

Dialogue is the way, and whether they or us in the 'west' like it or not, both have to climb down from some of their positions to get life back to some normal for that region.

Offline blert596

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2022, 04:56:27 pm »
Dialogue is the way, and whether they or us in the 'west' like it or not, both have to climb down from some of their positions to get life back to some normal for that region.

But what happens when one of the parties isn't willing to back down?  And we're all out of cheese.
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Offline darragh85

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2022, 04:57:09 pm »
Nothing, it will all blow over like a cloud of radioactive elements  from chernobyl.

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2022, 05:00:04 pm »
Nothing, it will all blow over like a cloud of radioactive elements  from chernobyl.

Oh well, thats a relief. Phew!  :D
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Offline oldfordie

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2022, 05:38:16 pm »
Lets face it none of this is going to end well. there will be no final agreement that satisfies everyone.
I wonder if Putin regrets the invasion, the reaction from the rest of the world has been unprecedented, Putin has misjudged the Wests reaction badly. the biggest shock is not supporting Ukraine will enrage western voters. western Politicians are being forced to help Ukraine, they are being forced to hammer Russia in every way possible.
We have reached a stage where neither side can back down from their demands.
Putin has to come out of this well at home which means Ukraine giving up Luhansk +Donetsk. some sort of agreement on not joining NATO. we need some diplomatic bullshit agreement to give Putin a way out. he may refuse point blank, if he does then we will at least know where we stand. Putin still thinks he was right to go into Ukraine. hard to believe considering the consequences.
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Offline Daniel Cabbaggio

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2022, 06:26:04 pm »
Plans should be being drawn up to take him out, and that to be leaked. This guy doesnt understand anything else, he's gotta know he is the one playing the dangerous game here. Hate to use the term Redline, but any nuclear power plant disaster, chemical attack or levelling a city with 10,000s of civillian dead. Fuck him. Kill the c*nt, he won't stop at that.
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Offline Boston always unofficial

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2022, 08:14:22 pm »
Not seeing the option for Elon Musk to fight Putin for Ukraine.I hate Musk and social fucking media and myself for reading that shit.

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2022, 08:18:45 pm »
Nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure.

Offline TipTopKop

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2022, 10:29:39 pm »
we need some diplomatic bullshit agreement to give Putin a way out. he may refuse point blank, if he does then we will at least know where we stand.
It has to be along those lines.

We obviously can't stop it if someone is hellbent on pushing on, but governments have to try every diplomatic avenue/scenario because the stakes are so high.

Offline gaztop08

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2022, 11:09:39 pm »
Nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure.



Offline Bend It Like Aurelio

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2022, 05:34:58 am »
It has to be along those lines.

We obviously can't stop it if someone is hellbent on pushing on, but governments have to try every diplomatic avenue/scenario because the stakes are so high.

It’s fairly obvious that the Ukranians have been pushing for a ceasefire quite a while now, but Putin has been resistant to calls for dialogue.

I watched Lavrov’s reaction after the 3rd talks, there is nothing rooted in reality, just a whole bunch of sound bites that make absolutely no sense. They are not even trying now to spin, the goading within Russia says they won’t stop just at the Ukranian border.

The only way to make this stop is to pile on the Russian body bags. The more funerals held in Russia, the more the pushback. The Russians now look up at Putin as a strong leader, but if he is seen to be incompetent, he will be deposed.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2022, 09:18:46 am »
Plans should be being drawn up to take him out, and that to be leaked. This guy doesnt understand anything else, he's gotta know he is the one playing the dangerous game here. Hate to use the term Redline, but any nuclear power plant disaster, chemical attack or levelling a city with 10,000s of civillian dead. Fuck him. Kill the c*nt, he won't stop at that.

Certainly make those plans, but don`t make it public knowledge (he`ll know anyway).

Kick the problem down the road somewhat by agreeing a peace in exhange for the former separate areas but demanding withdrawal of Russian troops to their own pre-war borders. However, do not follow the Munich line: whilst peace remains Ukraine should be at least fortified with Western aid (military and otherwise. Can we do Lend/Lease in the 21st century without expecting it to be repaid?) whilst also potentially fast-tracking EU/NATO membership via plebiscite (dictators love a wee plebiscite).

Pursue all avenues of pressure to remove Putin and like-minded cronies.
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2022, 09:26:54 am »
A while ago Samie got laughed at for suggesting taking out  Putin.
Why did people mock the suggestion, was it because they think its an impossible task given Russians established intelligence network, or was it because they thought it would escalate things ?
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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2022, 09:36:13 am »
I can't Andy, please can you stop asking me.
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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2022, 11:55:35 am »
A while ago Samie got laughed at for suggesting taking out  Putin.
Why did people mock the suggestion, was it because they think its an impossible task given Russians established intelligence network, or was it because they thought it would escalate things ?

Reverse the rolls and imagine Russia killed Biden, what do you think the response would be from the US?

 We all want Putin killed but it has to come from inside Russia from his inner circle.
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Offline Daniel Cabbaggio

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2022, 12:44:29 pm »
Reverse the rolls and imagine Russia killed Biden, what do you think the response would be from the US?

 We all want Putin killed but it has to come from inside Russia from his inner circle.
Bidens not causing WW3 tho is he? This man started his political career by blowing up his own Civilians in multiple apartment bombings. Not much wiggle room, If Ukraine is lost, the whole game is done. Kill the c*nt or at least seriously consider it, and he has to know it, thats the point. Cos anything but that, he won't take it seriously/ Give a hoot.
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Offline Slick_Beef

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2022, 02:26:36 pm »
Bidens not causing WW3 tho is he? This man started his political career by blowing up his own Civilians in multiple apartment bombings. Not much wiggle room, If Ukraine is lost, the whole game is done. Kill the c*nt or at least seriously consider it, and he has to know it, thats the point. Cos anything but that, he won't take it seriously/ Give a hoot.

If he's assassinated by the west it will never be forgotten, it will create decades of animosity. It will create conditions where it's easy for other wannabe dictators to rise to power.

It's like the difference between Germany trying to overthrow Tsar Nicholas II vs Germany sending in Lenin to do it for them.

They need to create the conditions where either the people rise up (difficult) or more likely, the army, backed by some disenchanted oligarchs, turn against Putin. They could blame him for everything to try and save face for how badly this is going.

Offline lobsterboy

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2022, 03:13:38 pm »
We could do worse than bump off a few of his cabal here...

Offline oldfordie

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2022, 03:27:50 pm »
We could do worse than bump off a few of his cabal here...
Get a few SAS over their to have a look at St Basils Cathedral in Moscow.
Give them all a load of Novichok to splash around the Kremlin.
Ask for a sample to test if it's ours when they accuse us of bumping off Putin, tell them it's not ours it belongs to Belarus. sorted.
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Offline jambutty

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2022, 01:06:34 am »
I'd have Ukraine announce that on July 1st they will destroy all the pipelines through their country.
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Offline Elmo!

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2022, 06:55:44 am »
I'd have Ukraine announce that on July 1st they will destroy all the pipelines through their country.

And piss off all of Europe, sounds like a great plan.

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2022, 07:34:36 am »
Bringing Finland and Sweden into Nato is going to make him mightily angry. There may be trouble ahead.

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2022, 07:46:05 am »
I dont think Russia can be fixed without a change in leadership, complete overhaul of mentality and a complete generation (or two) growing up without the horrors of Putins rule.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2022, 08:36:08 am »
Putin needs to be removed by his own people. The trouble is some other dictator would just pop up. The Russian people who have become used to western style trappings for a generation now are not, however, used to a proper democracy.
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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2022, 11:00:02 am »
And piss off all of Europe, sounds like a great plan.

Gosh.  I never thought about that.
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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2022, 12:03:33 pm »
Looking at Andy's poll again, my mind turned to the fact that Russia has never produced a great cheese.

Where do we count this among their legion of epic failures? I personally don't think it is as bad as Stalin or the Tsarist system of government but I might put it on the level with Chernobyl and the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-05. That might seem excessive but I really do like cheese.
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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2022, 12:04:39 pm »
Putin needs to be removed by his own people. The trouble is some other dictator would just pop up. The Russian people who have become used to western style trappings for a generation now are not, however, used to a proper democracy.


The entire country is a kleptocracy.

I think the best comparison I've seen is that it's like a mafia-style crime syndicate. Putin is the Don and the oligarchs are the Caporegime.

It's such a corrupt regime.

Get rid of the Don, and a Caporegime steps into his shoes.

Need to wipe out the entire operation. But western countries fawn over the Caporegime and the dirty money they bring. Even the sanctions are carefully-targeted and only impact a minority of the oligarchs.
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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2022, 01:47:59 pm »

Perhaps i missed it, have the Tories actually sanctioned any of their Russian donor yet?

 :mooncat
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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2022, 02:07:10 pm »
Perhaps i missed it, have the Tories actually sanctioned any of their Russian donor yet?

 :mooncat


No.

Not even returned/given to Ukraine charities the dirty money they received.

And barely a peep from the media.
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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2022, 03:40:45 pm »
Looking at Andy's poll again, my mind turned to the fact that Russia has never produced a great cheese.

Where do we count this among their legion of epic failures? I personally don't think it is as bad as Stalin or the Tsarist system of government but I might put it on the level with Chernobyl and the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-05. That might seem excessive but I really do like cheese.

I can't think of a Russian golfer. Do they have golf courses?

Pretty slow on the up take with multi national fast food outlets as well. Is that down to the lack of good quality cheese to put on burgers as well?

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2022, 04:01:59 pm »
I can't think of a Russian golfer. Do they have golf courses?

Pretty slow on the up take with multi national fast food outlets as well. Is that down to the lack of good quality cheese to put on burgers as well?
No, no. Of course they import good quality cheese from the EU... Oh.
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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2022, 04:05:26 pm »
Assassinate Putin

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2022, 04:17:55 pm »
I can't think of a Russian golfer. Do they have golf courses?

Actually, that's one of the finest things you can say about Russia.
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Offline Elmo!

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2022, 04:20:40 pm »
Do they have golf courses?

They have a couple up here in Scotland, owned through their orange faced proxy.

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Re: How would YOU fix this Russian Situation?
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2022, 04:29:26 pm »
Carrot and stick-approach in the sense that makes it clear that if Russian troups withdraw from any area administered by Ukraine on 23 February 2022 the new sanctions get lifted immediately.

At the same time, mobilize enough to make any excursion into NATO or the EU impossible. Not that I personally believe Russia's goals really extend further than Belarus and Ukraine for now. The only NATO zone at risk would be the land strip in Poland and Lithuania separating Belarus and Kaliningrad. Otherwise I don't see any real incentive for the Russian government to want more at the moment.

Speedily admit the Romanian-speaking part of Moldova to NATO. Make clear that Transnistria is neutral territory and not covered by Article 5 to avoid provocation. If Moldova so chooses, encourage Romania to absorb it into the country to automatically become part of EU and NATO under a UK-like arrangement of domestic countries, which is quite a popular idea (Romanian reunification).

Offer a settlement over the status of Crimea (such as free rights of residence for Ukrainians, making Ukrainian co-official) in exchange for Russia withdrawing support for the Donetsk and Luhansk rebellions. I'm not saying recognition of Crimea as part of Russia since it will be disputed territory for the rest of our lifetimes, but offer to mend its pariah status if Russia withdraw troops from elsewhere and remove sanctions from the peninsula if that happens.

Offer to make Crimea a visa-free travel zone under Ukrainian treaties with the EU if troops withdraw from mainland Ukraine. This would be in exchange for Russian citizens living in Crimea being able to get easier access to the EU more so than mainland Russians. Only applicable if the military withdrawal conditions are met. That's since we observe that Crimea is legally part of Ukraine so we extend favours also to local Russian citizens, which would be appealing to the locals. In turn that goodwill gesture could make Putin think twice about proceeding. Making Crimea a proper riviera and an international tourist destination means $$$$ and that's what the Russian government likes. Its summer weather is a lot drier than Sochi so has unparalleled tourism potential in the Russian-speaking world. My ultimate wish would be to solve the situation via Crimean independence as a third country but that's a long way off.

Offer a demilitarized border between the countries similar to in Korea, extend it to all of Donbass under the condition that Russia unequivocally recognizes the territory as Ukrainian.

Fund a border fence between Ukraine and Belarus to make military interventions from the north impossible.

Continue offering Russian citizens access to travel and cultural exchanges in the western world. Maintain diplomatic relations at all times. Make it crystal clear that all territories of the Russian Federation before 2014 are legitimate territories and that we never have any intention of disrupting their sovereign country.

Try and draw wedges between Russia and China and hint at future cooperation if there's a military withdrawal and respect for Ukrainian sovereignity.

Focus sanctions solely on government figures.

Additionally, give the Ukrainian army the tools they need to defend their territory while waiting for Russia to give in to the pressure put on it. They do it very well at this point and eventually I believe they'll take Kherson back.

I really like cheese either way and if it's radioactive that's tomorrow's problem :wave

I doubt Putin would be too interested in these proposals now, but in a few months time that may well be very different. Having these terms on the table would likely appeal more to an eventual successor willing to normalize relations with the US and Europe if it meant a wealthier Russia in return.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2022, 05:13:21 pm by Linudden »
Linudden.