Poll

What are your views on Kier Starmer's leadership of the Labour party to date?

Excellent
5 (1.9%)
Good
33 (12.7%)
Average
88 (34%)
Poor
46 (17.8%)
Awful
69 (26.6%)
Too early to say
18 (6.9%)

Total Members Voted: 259

Author Topic: Keir Starmer: your views?  (Read 91703 times)

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1040 on: September 28, 2021, 11:46:05 am »
Punishing crime - especially crime against the individual - is a policy area I'm pretty right-wing on. I think the majority of sentences are too soft (apart from things like white collar crime - multiple cases of, say, a bank employee getting 3/5/7 years for nicking a couple hundred grand that the bank makes in profit in the blink of an eye, yet someone who beats another to a pulp in an unprovoked attack would get far less, often not even a custodial sentence)

channeling their inner Priti Patel, nice.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1041 on: September 28, 2021, 12:10:56 pm »
Anarchists vs Tankies is a nice change.
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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1042 on: September 28, 2021, 12:14:32 pm »
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1043 on: September 28, 2021, 12:15:36 pm »

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1044 on: September 28, 2021, 12:30:28 pm »

And the point of your post is...?

There was none. It was just a joke.
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1045 on: September 28, 2021, 12:33:05 pm »
Sorry, I'm just not seeing this one.  There's no stance to take on a £15 national minimum wage because it's not Labour policy to fix a number above the minimum of £10, and that's a totally different thing to supporting a specific pay dispute. I am fascinated by how this has shifted from £10 p/h to £15 p/h over the course of a couple of years without even the MPs now backing it seeming to notice. GMB is supposedly preparing the evidence to support care workers receiving £15 p/h (I think it's by linking to NHS paygrades but waiting to see) so I look forward to Unite sharing their's and am open to persuasion. Otherwise it may just look like an arbitrarily chosen number dreamed up by bampots and remind everyone they're no longer in charge of the party.

HE told Macdonald to argue against it - thats a stance

hes has campaigned for maccies workers to earn 15 p/h - Also a stance

two stances that are rather contradictory   unless of course Macdonalds workers are key to British success and must earn more
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1046 on: September 28, 2021, 12:37:54 pm »
HE told Macdonald to argue against it - thats a stance

hes has campaigned for maccies workers to earn 15 p/h - Also a stance

two stances that are rather contradictoey  unless of course Macdonalds workers are key to British success and must earn more

The leadership is taking no position on the vote on this. Not a steer, not an indication to conference of preference, not an argument for or against, not even a quiet word to activists on which way to organise. McDonald wasn't given permission to change party policy to something totally new.

If you can't see the difference between a national minimum wage and a specific pay dispute then I'm not sure how to help you see one, sorry.
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1047 on: September 28, 2021, 12:43:11 pm »
For context:


Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1048 on: September 28, 2021, 12:50:22 pm »
The leadership is taking no position on the vote on this. Not a steer, not an indication to conference of preference, not an argument for or against, not even a quiet word to activists on which way to organise. McDonald wasn't given permission to change party policy to something totally new.

If you can't see the difference between a national minimum wage and a specific pay dispute then I'm not sure how to help you see one, sorry.

So Andy Macdonald is lying when he says Starmer told him to argue against it?

if you cant see the difference bewtwen supporting certain non key workers to earn 15 p/h but doesnt want it for the rest of the low paid british work force  I cant help you
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Welshred

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1049 on: September 28, 2021, 12:55:12 pm »
No Andy MacDonald wrote the green paper that decided the Labour party's policy of a £10ph minimum wage and then wanted to go and argue for a £15ph minimum wage at the same conference, which he was told not to do as he would have undermined his own policy. Yet for some reason you think the person to blame here is Keir Starmer.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1050 on: September 28, 2021, 12:56:14 pm »
So Andy Macdonald is lying when he says Starmer told him to argue against it?

if you cant see the difference bewtwen supporting certain non key workers to earn 15 p/h but doesnt want it for the rest of the low paid british work force  I cant help you

No idea how to classify what Andy Macdonald said but would suggest that the party operation which has won all week would be in operation if the leadership were dead set against something. As it is, it isn't. That's the position. A £10 p/h minimum wage as a floor and review before implementation should Labour ever manage to get elected.

I suppose if all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail, so good luck with that.
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1051 on: September 28, 2021, 01:00:14 pm »
No Andy MacDonald wrote the green paper that decided the Labour party's policy of a £10ph minimum wage and then wanted to go and argue for a £15ph minimum wage at the same conference, which he was told not to do as he would have undermined his own policy. Yet for some reason you think the person to blame here is Keir Starmer.


So Starmer can argue for 15 but Andy Macdonald cant
I guess the answer is Starmer really loves Big Macs




As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Welshred

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1052 on: September 28, 2021, 01:03:27 pm »
Honestly you're a lost cause if you can't see the difference here. MacDonald causes an argument and further division yet for some reason Starmer is to blame for sticking wanting him to party policy. Its really bizarre.

Offline Rob Dylan

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1053 on: September 28, 2021, 01:09:42 pm »

Absolutely nothing.

It's a policy that I can fully get behind - and thought it brilliant in that 96/97 era when Blair and Labour were pushing it.

Sadly, they failed on both counts IMO.

Punishing crime - especially crime against the individual - is a policy area I'm pretty right-wing on. I think the majority of sentences are too soft (apart from things like white collar crime - multiple cases of, say, a bank employee getting 3/5/7 years for nicking a couple hundred grand that the bank makes in profit in the blink of an eye, yet someone who beats another to a pulp in an unprovoked attack would get far less, often not even a custodial sentence)

Totally agree. I never understand why none of the main parties really campaigns on things like tougher sentences for violent crime, and not releasing prisoners so early - it would be a massive vote winner. Even the Tories, despite their 'law & order' reputation, never actually do anything about it.

I don't understand why it's considered somehow wrong for Labour to promote policies like this. There's nothing wrong with ensuring that people get appropriate sentences for violent crimes, and that they don't get released after less than half of their sentence - it doesn't mean you have to leave people to rot in terrible conditions, or don't care about what happens when they come out.

So invest in police resources, increase sentences and limit early releases. But at the same time, improve prison conditions (overcrowding, etc) and invest in proper rehabilitation programmes. And in the long-term, address the wider problems in society which often lead to crime (poverty, education, etc). The Tories talk tough but never actually do anything because it would mean spending money (even if just building new prisons), whereas Labour always seem scared or ashamed to talk about it - but I don't understand why.

Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1054 on: September 28, 2021, 01:09:42 pm »
There was none. It was just a joke.


Oh. OK.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1055 on: September 28, 2021, 01:10:19 pm »
Honestly you're a lost cause if you can't see the difference here. MacDonald causes an argument and further division yet for some reason Starmer is to blame for sticking wanting him to party policy. Its really bizarre.
Why does he want macdonalds staff to earn 15 quid - but not pother workers currently on less??


do you think the electorate - the same electorate who listened to Farrage and Johsnson will go into details finer details ? your well off the mark -

They will just think he backed maccies workers but wont back me - it looks bad

Edit -BBC  just announced there will be a debate on 15 p/h at confrence 
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 01:15:18 pm by Kenny's Jacket »
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Elmo!

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1056 on: September 28, 2021, 01:14:50 pm »
Why does he want macdonalds staff to earn 15 quid - but not pother workers currently on less??


do you think the electorate - the same electorate who listened to Farrage and Johsnson will go into details finer details ? your well off the mark -

They will just think he backed maccies workers but wont back me - it looks bad

I'm sure he wants everyone to earn 15 quid - or a decent genuine living wage.

That is not incompatible with not supporting a government mandated massive sudden hike to minimum wage that would cripple small businesses if done too fast.

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1057 on: September 28, 2021, 01:18:12 pm »
I'm sure he wants everyone to earn 15 quid - or a decent genuine living wage.

That is not incompatible with not supporting a government mandated massive sudden hike to minimum wage that would cripple small businesses if done too fast.


Good point Elmo one I was thinking about myself I wish KS had beaten you to it
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1058 on: September 28, 2021, 01:30:18 pm »
I'm sure he wants everyone to earn 15 quid - or a decent genuine living wage.

That is not incompatible with not supporting a government mandated massive sudden hike to minimum wage that would cripple small businesses if done too fast.
Yep. it took us years to get into this mess, it will take years to get out of it.
Labour will be torn apart with £15 min wage, who pays for it, that will be the number 1 worry for the public.
 What about the workers on £15 now. they will need a big rise as well or do we expect young single girls to earn £600 a week in McDonnalds while assuming a married man in a more skilled job remains on the same salary £600 a week.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 01:32:12 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline Welshred

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1059 on: September 28, 2021, 01:40:20 pm »
Why does he want macdonalds staff to earn 15 quid - but not pother workers currently on less??


do you think the electorate - the same electorate who listened to Farrage and Johsnson will go into details finer details ? your well off the mark -

They will just think he backed maccies workers but wont back me - it looks bad

Edit -BBC  just announced there will be a debate on 15 p/h at confrence 


The electorate couldn't give a fuck otherwise there be more of a storm about this outside of the idiots who back Labour MPs like McDonnell, RLB and Zahra Sultana. Its literally non-news and despite being told multiple times why the photo was taken you're still ignoring it just so you can criticise someone you've always criticised.


Again MacDonald is the one who caused this shitstorm yet all you can focus on is Starmer. It's bizarre.

Offline Welshred

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1060 on: September 28, 2021, 01:41:26 pm »

Good point Elmo one I was thinking about myself I wish KS had beaten you to it

Didn't know Starmer posted on RAWK mate...

Offline Elmo!

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1061 on: September 28, 2021, 01:44:18 pm »
Didn't know Starmer posted on RAWK mate...

Several people did already make basically the same point as me before I did.... so maybe he does?

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1062 on: September 28, 2021, 01:48:37 pm »
Didn't know Starmer posted on RAWK mate...


He should its ace
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1063 on: September 28, 2021, 01:49:57 pm »
Several people did already make basically the same point as me before I did.... so maybe he does?

They didnt mate


if he does id like him to know Ill vote for him regardless
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1064 on: September 28, 2021, 01:53:55 pm »

He should its ace



The Transfers Thread especially
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1065 on: September 28, 2021, 01:56:40 pm »
Just ignoring the logistics and wider implications for a moment, I am struggling to understand what your issue is with someone earning £600 for working a 40-hour week in McDonald’s? Surely we need to be encouraging a world in which people who have full-time jobs are earning in the region of £30,000? I appreciate that it cannot just happen across all sectors overnight, but if McDonald’s turned around tomorrow and said “Every one of our non-senior workers earns £15 an hour from now”, I would like to think that the vast majority of people would not have a problem with it.

Except for the burger and fizzy drink addicts who'd have to pay for it.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1066 on: September 28, 2021, 01:57:20 pm »
Just ignoring the logistics and wider implications for a moment, I am struggling to understand what your issue is with someone earning £600 for working a 40-hour week in McDonald’s? Surely we need to be encouraging a world in which people who have full-time jobs are earning in the region of £30,000? I appreciate that it cannot just happen across all sectors overnight, but if McDonald’s turned around tomorrow and said “Every one of our non-senior workers earns £15 an hour from now”, I would like to think that the vast majority of people would not have a problem with it.
It’s better that companies pay good wages rather than tax payers subsidise companies by paying benefits to those in jobs.

But of course there’s a lot more to that, such as affordable housing
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1067 on: September 28, 2021, 02:03:02 pm »
Just ignoring the logistics and wider implications for a moment, I am struggling to understand what your issue is with someone earning £600 for working a 40-hour week in McDonald’s? Surely we need to be encouraging a world in which people who have full-time jobs are earning in the region of £30,000? I appreciate that it cannot just happen across all sectors overnight, but if McDonald’s turned around tomorrow and said “Every one of our non-senior workers earns £15 an hour from now”, I would like to think that the vast majority of people would not have a problem with it.

plenty when hes only campaigned for them  to get it;  maybe a KFC worker gobbed in his Zinger burger

As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1068 on: September 28, 2021, 02:07:13 pm »
Just ignoring the logistics and wider implications for a moment, I am struggling to understand what your issue is with someone earning £600 for working a 40-hour week in McDonald’s? Surely we need to be encouraging a world in which people who have full-time jobs are earning in the region of £30,000? I appreciate that it cannot just happen across all sectors overnight, but if McDonald’s turned around tomorrow and said “Every one of our non-senior workers earns £15 an hour from now”, I would like to think that the vast majority of people would not have a problem with it.
If you want to know the issues I have with a sudden big wage rise for millions of people then you cant ignore the implications, am surprised you're thinking we should ignore the implications

The vast majority of people will listen to the arguments made by the Bosses and the Torys.
Who pays for these big sudden increases in wages.
Will this have a knock on effect up the wage ladder. if so what are the implications.
Add this to more workers rights, how will that affect unemployment.
 These are all legitimate concerns.
. ive given my opinion on this in the past, we have to go back a few decades and look at the reasons that brought about a low wage workforce in this country. the politics behind it.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 02:12:06 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1069 on: September 28, 2021, 02:14:00 pm »
Just ignoring the logistics and wider implications for a moment, I am struggling to understand what your issue is with someone earning £600 for working a 40-hour week in McDonald’s? Surely we need to be encouraging a world in which people who have full-time jobs are earning in the region of £30,000? I appreciate that it cannot just happen across all sectors overnight, but if McDonald’s turned around tomorrow and said “Every one of our non-senior workers earns £15 an hour from now”, I would like to think that the vast majority of people would not have a problem with it.

With a wage increase like that, you'd see quite a big jump in inflation I would predict.

The Living Wage Foundation (an NGO) says these figures are currently the real living wage:



What is the Living Wage?

The real Living Wage is based on the cost of living and is voluntarily paid by over 7,000 UK employers who believe a hard day's work deserves a fair day's pay.

https://www.livingwage.org.uk/

Offline stewil007

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1070 on: September 28, 2021, 02:24:17 pm »
Surely the hourly rate is meangingless unless you do the hours to actually get a living wage....you could be on £30/hr, but means nothing if you only do 5 hours a week

Offline Elmo!

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1071 on: September 28, 2021, 02:34:21 pm »
Surely the hourly rate is meangingless unless you do the hours to actually get a living wage....you could be on £30/hr, but means nothing if you only do 5 hours a week

It's the only way it can be done really. You can't really set a minum weekly rate that everyone must get regardless of how many hours they work.

The issue of people working less hours than they want or need is separate (although not unrelated).

Offline thaddeus

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1072 on: September 28, 2021, 02:41:01 pm »
Surely the hourly rate is meangingless unless you do the hours to actually get a living wage....you could be on £30/hr, but means nothing if you only do 5 hours a week
I guess that's one of the risks of putting the minimum wage too high, you tip the balance that it's cheaper to automate with machinery(/robotics) so the minimum wage is meaningless if there's no work.

It doesn't seem particularly an issue for the UK right now though as we have lower productivity than most of our peers (probably a result of their being an abundance of cheap labour compared to, for example, Japan) and we've just shrunk our workforce quite significantly with Brexit.

I can't find the article right now but I'm sure Switzerland had a vote on introducing the equivalent of £35k/year minimum wage but the vote went against it.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1073 on: September 28, 2021, 03:03:39 pm »
Just ignoring the logistics and wider implications for a moment, I am struggling to understand what your issue is with someone earning £600 for working a 40-hour week in McDonald’s? Surely we need to be encouraging a world in which people who have full-time jobs are earning in the region of £30,000? I appreciate that it cannot just happen across all sectors overnight, but if McDonald’s turned around tomorrow and said “Every one of our non-senior workers earns £15 an hour from now”, I would like to think that the vast majority of people would not have a problem with it.
But if we are ignoring everything else, why not set it at £100 / hr?
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1074 on: September 28, 2021, 03:08:55 pm »
Fwiw (which I don't think is much in terms of evidence - edited to clarify), this is Unite's submission to try and get the minimum wage raised to £15 p/h as soon as possible and by 2024 at latest.

https://www.politicshome.com/ugc-1/1/36/0/unite_submission_to_the_low_pay_comm.pdf

They have research which says that the impact of raising the minimum wage to above £10 an hour is going to be net beneficial. However, I can't actually spot what level their research recommended because £15 has seemingly come from a few places rather than being the level the research itself suggested. (If I've read it wrong, mea culpa.)

All seems a bit weird to me to try and turn it into a point of difference. Like a bunch of JWs trying to trap the Pope into saying he believes in the Trinity.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 03:17:32 pm by Zeb »
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Offline oldfordie

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1075 on: September 28, 2021, 03:15:40 pm »
Right, well first off, McDonald’s employs around 130,000 crew members in the UK and Ireland. My question to you was specific to McDonald’s and what your issue would be with them choosing to do it. I also did not suggest that “we” should ignore the implications, only that I was choosing to do so (because I agree with the points being made that you cannot just jump from where we are at now to a £15 minimum wage without wider implications) in order to ask you that specific question about what was quite a specific comment that you made, “do we expect young single girls to earn £600 a week in McDonnalds while assuming a married man in a more skilled job remains on the same salary £600 a week”. I will admit that I am presuming that your initial point was in reference to Starmer and the banner - if you were talking about the shadow cabinet resignation over a wider scale £15 per hour (and just happened to use McDonald’s as an example of an unskilled worker) then I apologise.
Nothing to do with Starmer, it's  2 points, the implications ive raised and I imagine others will be raised. 1, How people will look at arguing for a £15 min wage, the connection to McDonnells was made by others.
Are we going to be honest here as the public will.

Like it or not the UK and I assume most countries have always paid younger people lower wages. McDonnells has never been seen as a job young people aspire too pay for a decent standard of living for their family. I was in McDonnell's only yesterday with my grandson, first time in nearly 2 yrs. sounds phoney now I write it but true,  full of young girls behind the counter.
Why can't McDonnells have similar workforces to other companies.?

The fact they are all so young can only mean most move on as soon as something better comes up. compare this to a married man or even a single mother in a long term job who now earns around £15 a hour, how are they going to view this.
A young girl is getting the same as me, i have to pay for rent and clothes and food for the kids. if they are young then most are still living at home, blah blah.
I know there must be a lot of people who have worked in McDonnells for years, I knew 1 girl who did but she always felt the stigma, she always wanted to look for something better, credit to her she has.
The connection to McDonnells and arguing for a £15 min wage is one of the worst arguments people can make to fight to improve the living standards of many.
I can think of far better cases, Hairdressers for example. treated like s,, during the lockdown, very few younger people compared to McDonnells, skilled long term career.


« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 03:17:23 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1076 on: September 28, 2021, 03:17:10 pm »
So Andy Macdonald is lying when he says Starmer told him to argue against it?

if you cant see the difference between supporting certain non key workers to earn 15 p/h but doesnt want it for the rest of the low paid british work force  I cant help you

I see other people have had a go explaining but let's have another try.

The minimum wage is just that. It was introduced by Labour in the 1998 act and has since been adopted as policy by the Tories. It's not what every low paid worker should be earning. It's just the baseline, the minimum that any worker should be earning. The current level equates to around 18k for a 40 hour week. That's the sort of wage you get as a shelf stacker in a local store, a window cleaner with a local round, road sweeper and the like. Raising the minimum wage to £15pw would make the lowest possible yearly wage for any job in the country £30,000.

It's a great idea but it's ridiculous in practice.

And then you have a completely separate issue - a dispute about pay, job security and working conditions between one employer and their employees, supported by the Bakers, Food and Allied Works’ Union.

It's not hypocritical to suggest that a multi-national company making billions could do better for its work force, but the same salary and conditions might not be affordable for the man who runs the local chippy.

Your logic is that the outcome of every industrial dispute over pay & conditions should then be applied to every single worker with lower conditions and pay.

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Offline Elmo!

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1077 on: September 28, 2021, 03:37:19 pm »
£15/hour is really quite a high for a national minimum.

I would get a pay rise if it was inmplemented, and while I wouldn't complain, frankly I don't need it. Given the potential impact it would have on the wider economy of it was suddenly introduced I don't think it is justified. Over a longer time frame certainly.

Addressing housing costs in places where it is particularly bad is way more important. I don't need the £15/hour becasuse my housing costs are very reasonable.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1078 on: September 28, 2021, 03:48:35 pm »
I would love to see a debate on what took us to where we are today.
People judge Labours past policys in isolation which doesn't explain how the politics forced them into similar positions on pay as the Torys.
The problem started when unemployment figures became a big political issue.
It lead to subsidised wages to encourage companies to employ more people which they gladly grabbed with both hands. we were in effect subsidizing those companies rather than workers as it encouraged more companies to reduce wages. then came the short term week subsidizes to keep the unemployment figures as low as possible, maybe others remember the same conversations, being told this job suits me down to the ground m8, only work 28 hours and government tops up my wage. happy with the money they were recieving.
This is what got us in this mess, many workers were happy enough on low wages and short term working as the pay packet gave them a decent enough standard of life, the problems started to hit when the Torys started chopping those subsidizes.
Finding the solutions is a different issue and a matter of opinion, this all should have been made a issue years ago.


« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 03:51:17 pm by oldfordie »
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1079 on: September 28, 2021, 03:51:37 pm »
£15/hour is really quite a high for a national minimum.

I would get a pay rise if it was inmplemented, and while I wouldn't complain, frankly I don't need it. Given the potential impact it would have on the wider economy of it was suddenly introduced I don't think it is justified. Over a longer time frame certainly.

Addressing housing costs in places where it is particularly bad is way more important. I don't need the £15/hour becasuse my housing costs are very reasonable.


Addressing housing costs is crucial.

The area I live in isn't exactly Knutsford, but a 3-bed detached on our estate (built 00's) rent for upwards of £800/month (house value of c£175k)

There's been a few new estates built within a couple of miles of here and not particularly big (in fact, quite small) 4-beds are £300k+. The majority of two at least were bought by 'investors' off plan. They rent out anything up to £1500 a month.

I don't know how the fuck people afford that.

There's huge differentials within a small radius, though. A 1930's-1960's 3-bed semi (that traditional layout) within spitting distance go for under £120k; terraced for under £100k.
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