Author Topic: Kabak signs  (Read 163526 times)

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1400 on: April 10, 2021, 05:40:10 pm »
Carragher is such a fickle weirdo. Goes from over the top critical to then lurch back and say he was unlucky for the first goal (where he was caught ball watching after a nice initial cut out).

Also called Firmino's finish a miss hit, cos he doesnt like him

Hard to tell if its a concentration thing or a contract thing, but he was starting to fade again today before he went off. Robbo was annoyed at him for dribbling out riskily instead of moving the ball quickly, and he forgot to track a long ball and challenge for it in the minutes before he went off
Should never have tried to nick ahead of the striker, could have be turned or as happened put him out of position.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1401 on: April 10, 2021, 05:42:00 pm »
Struggled today ... both centre backs did in fairness - against a one man attack

Offline Simplexity

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1402 on: April 10, 2021, 05:42:43 pm »
Struggled today ... both centre backs did in fairness - against a one man attack

Thank god Grealish was injured.

Offline rawcusk8

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1403 on: April 10, 2021, 05:43:19 pm »
Gets nowhere near our team if Matip, Gomez and VVD are fit, would rather a top defender or push on with Billy and Reece. 20m could be spent better for me, saying that as I said only young.
Get your point that we need a top CB but Kabak is a year older than Williams, if you’re wanting to push on Williams then we’re better off moulding Kabak, he’s much the better player. In an ideal world we could sign a top CB as well as Kabak and see if he turns out to be a top CB whilst being 4th choice and getting games next to the likes of VVD. He’s certainly shown glimpses and he’s also shown he needs to improve on certain aspects of his game. He’s 21, I think he’ll get much better, whether that’s here with us it remains to be seen.
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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1404 on: April 10, 2021, 05:48:28 pm »
Gets nowhere near our team if Matip, Gomez and VVD are fit, would rather a top defender or push on with Billy and Reece. 20m could be spent better for me, saying that as I said only young.
Maybe not but he will only get better and which top defender is going to accept 4th/5th choice?

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1405 on: April 10, 2021, 05:49:40 pm »
Get your point that we need a top CB but Kabak is a year older than Williams, if you’re wanting to push on Williams then we’re better off moulding Kabak, he’s much the better player. In an ideal world we could sign a top CB as well as Kabak and see if he turns out to be a top CB whilst being 4th choice and getting games next to the likes of VVD. He’s certainly shown glimpses and he’s also shown he needs to improve on certain aspects of his game. He’s 21, I think he’ll get much better, whether that’s here with us it remains to be seen.
We seem so tight with money the last couple of seasons I would spend 20m elsewhere, as you say though he's young and could improve.

Offline Asam

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1406 on: April 10, 2021, 06:12:01 pm »


I’d sign him unless it’s a straight choice between him and Konate (who I think is a bigger talent)

Offline sminp

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1407 on: April 10, 2021, 06:14:46 pm »

I’d sign him unless it’s a straight choice between him and Konate (who I think is a bigger talent)

I’d rather keep Kabak, I think he looks a very promising centre back and Konate’s injury history worries me a little.
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Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1408 on: April 10, 2021, 10:34:30 pm »
There is 100% something in his contract that means we have to sign him if he plays a certain amount of full matches or minutes.

Made sense taking him off against Arsenal, seemingly to rest our main CB, but there is no other logical explanation for taking him off today or against Real.
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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1409 on: April 10, 2021, 10:50:54 pm »
Gets nowhere near our team if Matip, Gomez and VVD are fit, would rather a top defender or push on with Billy and Reece. 20m could be spent better for me, saying that as I said only young.
Maybe. Problem is though Matip or Gomez can't be counted on because they are made of prawn crackers

Offline MD1990

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1410 on: April 10, 2021, 10:51:39 pm »
There is 100% something in his contract that means we have to sign him if he plays a certain amount of full matches or minutes.

Made sense taking him off against Arsenal, seemingly to rest our main CB, but there is no other logical explanation for taking him off today or against Real.
good point.
there is something abit strange goin on

Offline keano7

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1411 on: April 10, 2021, 10:57:10 pm »
I’d rather keep Kabak, I think he looks a very promising centre back and Konate’s injury history worries me a little.
With the way we play, he doesn’t fit the mould as he hasn’t got the speed to get back as we play a high line. He’s done well (a few little rickets here and there but that’s to be expected for someone of his age and joining us at a period of crisis). I wouldn’t sign him for £18m though. Look at Tsimikas, £11.75m and has barely played and is third in the pecking order at LB. We need another CB in the summer but there’s surely better business to be done.
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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1412 on: April 10, 2021, 10:58:43 pm »
There is 100% something in his contract that means we have to sign him if he plays a certain amount of full matches or minutes.

Made sense taking him off against Arsenal, seemingly to rest our main CB, but there is no other logical explanation for taking him off today or against Real.

Fabinho's distribution is levels above Kabak's. It makes perfect sense when we are chasing the game and want to push teams back to drop Fabinho back.
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Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1413 on: April 10, 2021, 11:01:51 pm »
Fabinho's distribution is levels above Kabak's. It makes perfect sense when we are chasing the game and want to push teams back to drop Fabinho back.

And Kabak’s distribution is levels above Phillips, so if it was purely tactical he would be the one coming off. Especially when you’ve basically recognised Kabak as being your senior centre back by him being the one rested during the Arsenal match. Plus you’d likely make such a sub before the 88th minute.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 11:04:35 pm by LovelyCushionedHeader »
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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1414 on: April 10, 2021, 11:06:29 pm »
And Kabak’s distribution is levels above Phillips, so if it was purely tactical he would be the one coming off. Especially when you’ve basically recognised Kabak as being your senior centre back by him being the one rested during the Arsenal match. Plus you’d likely make such a sub before the 88th minute.

We are a small side though. So when you are coming to the end of a game winning headers in both boxes is crucial.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1415 on: April 10, 2021, 11:47:44 pm »
And Kabak’s distribution is levels above Phillips, so if it was purely tactical he would be the one coming off. Especially when you’ve basically recognised Kabak as being your senior centre back by him being the one rested during the Arsenal match. Plus you’d likely make such a sub before the 88th minute.

I'm not convinced his distribution is levels above Phillips. I know I'd rather have Kabak dribbling a ball, but his mid to long range passing especially in the air does not look great (it doesn't help him that all our senior CBs in last few seasons have had great range). Short to medium passing he's at least sped up but I'm not seeing it as anything special, or even necessarily noticably better than Phillips

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1416 on: April 10, 2021, 11:59:45 pm »
I'm not convinced his distribution is levels above Phillips. I know I'd rather have Kabak dribbling a ball, but his mid to long range passing especially in the air does not look great (it doesn't help him that all our senior CBs in last few seasons have had great range). Short to medium passing he's at least sped up but I'm not seeing it as anything special, or even necessarily noticably better than Phillips

Eh, I didn't say his distribution was good! ;D
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Offline classycarra

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1417 on: April 11, 2021, 12:48:37 am »
Eh, I didn't say his distribution was good! ;D
Fair..! ;D

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1418 on: April 11, 2021, 01:17:17 am »
He has done very well, coming in to a struggling side, and has forged a secure partnership with Phillips.
I think he looks too slow to play our high line though. He always appears to be struggling for pace, and looks really stiff running at that moment.
If we had to keep only 1 out of him and Phillips, I'd keep Phillips (as an alternative type of CB, and buy a much faster, athletic CB, rather than Kabak)
Would love to see his top speed stats, as my judgement on him is purely from my own eyes.

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1419 on: April 11, 2021, 02:36:57 am »
Ive defended him and Phillips to the hilt and they have both done very well under the circumstances but i really want my VVd Gomez and Matip back. The more games those two they play the more the mean will revert and at a minimum that's playing two rookies instead of 3 of the top 5 in the world. You play two rookies they are going to get targeted and they are going to make mistakes, its that simple.

Ah well, they are more than good enough for anyone we have left in the league.
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Offline AmSeeker

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1420 on: April 11, 2021, 06:05:43 am »
The supposed price of 20 million is way too much.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1421 on: April 11, 2021, 08:54:58 am »
We are a small side though. So when you are coming to the end of a game winning headers in both boxes is crucial.

Born out by Phillips winning a header from their set piece in the last minute. That's why you keep Phillips on.

Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Fromola

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1422 on: April 11, 2021, 08:57:33 am »
He has done very well, coming in to a struggling side, and has forged a secure partnership with Phillips.
I think he looks too slow to play our high line though. He always appears to be struggling for pace, and looks really stiff running at that moment.
If we had to keep only 1 out of him and Phillips, I'd keep Phillips (as an alternative type of CB, and buy a much faster, athletic CB, rather than Kabak)
Would love to see his top speed stats, as my judgement on him is purely from my own eyes.

That's why i've never saw us buying him permanently, not for the price anyway. If we're playing a high line we need fast defenders and Klopp prefers CB's well over 6 foot. Gomez, Matip and Van Dijk are all tall, quick and comfortable on the ball.

In January I always said we'd have to compromise on demanding to get someone in who ticks every box (we didn't have the money for that). Kabak was that compromise.

He's getting really solid experience right now and has had to be thrown in the deep end. He'll be a good signing for someone, but we'd be compromising over 2 or 3 things with him. Height, pace and possibly distribution as well. That's why we're looking at Konate. I'd still be happy to sign both because we've got 3 players coming back from terrible injuries and we'll need Kabak or Phillips at least as a 5th option.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 09:01:21 am by Fromola »
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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1423 on: April 11, 2021, 09:09:04 am »
He's been pretty decent after a shaky start but it's understandable considering the circumstances he was put in. I don't think we should sign him though. He has nothing about him that could make him a special defender and that's what we should be aiming for if we want to win on a regular basis.

Offline hide5seek

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1424 on: April 11, 2021, 09:19:00 am »
We should sign him.
If we buy Konate we'll have a bunch of CBs who've all had serious injuries.
If we have Kabak, Phillips, Konate, Matip, Gomez and VVD we can rotate between them to keep the main 4 VVD, Gomez, Konate and Matip as fit as possible next season, as for all 4 of them we have no idea how their injuries will shape the next 2/3 seasons.
Though you'd hope every check possible is done on Konate if were buying him.

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1425 on: April 11, 2021, 09:30:06 am »
I personally think we should take him - as long as we’re signing another, more accomplished CB in the summer, a la Konate.

He’s been a mixed bag so far - he’s shown good aggression, the ability to read passes but he’s also slower to anticipate than he needs to be and has switched off on a few occasions. That being said, he’s only just turned 21 and I think he’s a good prospect. Let’s be honest here, he’s a better player than Phillips, but gets less criticism because he’s not home grown or as visibly good in the air etc (I like Phillips but the best move for all parties is a sale to a mid-lower Prem team who like what they’ve seen and will pay a small premium for his homegrown status).

He’s far more along in his developmental curve than Rhys Williams for example, who is less than a year younger than Kabak. Realistically we’re not going to get someone with similar potential for the same price and I’d be very surprised to see him end up back at Schalke. Give the lad some credit - he’s come into a dysfunctional, changing back line that has little experience of playing together, during one of the worst dips in form we’ve had in decades, all amidst an unprecedented injury crisis, whilst simultaneously trying to adapt to a new culture, language and country amidst a pandemic that will prevent him from doing the usual things that would give a young lad in a new country comfort and familiarity.
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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1426 on: April 11, 2021, 10:17:07 am »
We should sign him.
If we buy Konate we'll have a bunch of CBs who've all had serious injuries.
If we have Kabak, Phillips, Konate, Matip, Gomez and VVD we can rotate between them to keep the main 4 VVD, Gomez, Konate and Matip as fit as possible next season, as for all 4 of them we have no idea how their injuries will shape the next 2/3 seasons.
Though you'd hope every check possible is done on Konate if were buying him.

This is true, but that's about 30 million a year on wages just for centre backs.

Our wage bill is severely impacted by having to carry more players in the squad to cover for ones who are always injured.
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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1427 on: April 11, 2021, 10:36:08 am »
Very impressed with Phillips only 23  i hope he remains a squad member, he absolutely went through  Barkley to win a header late in the game which put a smile on my face.

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1428 on: April 11, 2021, 10:41:23 am »
He’s not quick enough sadly. That’s the only problem with him that I’ve seen but given the way we play, it’s a very significant problem.

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1429 on: April 11, 2021, 11:25:02 am »
It all comes down to budget. For a 20 year old centreback he has been very impressive and if we had the budget, there is a case of signing him.

However, its very likely that if we can only sign one centreback then whoever that is will probably be first choice alongside Van Dijk for most of next season and therefore is he good enough right now for that?

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1430 on: April 11, 2021, 11:37:11 am »
He’s done well all things considered but I believe for the price he would come here, we can do better.
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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1431 on: April 11, 2021, 11:38:40 am »
He’s done well all things considered but I believe for the price he would come here, we can do better.

Like who? Bear in mind two of our 3 CBs are 30 or about to hit 30 the profile has to be a young player

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1432 on: April 11, 2021, 11:40:13 am »
He’s done well all things considered but I believe for the price he would come here, we can do better.

Not sure we can do better for the price.

However again the question is that by signing him we would have to sign another who is more established and probably better right now. Can we do that? If we could then we probably should.

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1433 on: April 11, 2021, 11:48:29 am »
It all comes down to budget. For a 20 year old centreback he has been very impressive and if we had the budget, there is a case of signing him.

However, its very likely that if we can only sign one centreback then whoever that is will probably be first choice alongside Van Dijk
 for most of next season and therefore is he good enough right now for that?

Just hope whoever we sign is alongside big Virg for most, if not all, of next season.

Offline RedForeverTT

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1434 on: April 11, 2021, 12:06:15 pm »
I think he looks decent. Put him alongside a top centre back and he will flourish.

I thought he did well. I don’t get why he was subbed against Real Madrid last week.

Inexperienced but he was no worse than Tyrone Mings.

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1435 on: April 11, 2021, 12:22:37 pm »

Inexperienced but he was no worse than Tyrone Mings.
Fair point. Mings sliced a few yesterday, and looked shaky at times. No point being a defender if you can't defend.......
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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1436 on: April 11, 2021, 12:55:03 pm »
Would definitely like to see him next to Van Dijk. Of course, if Matip and Gomez are fit they're ahead of him, but given their injury problems, the scenario could easily come around. I think he'd look very good next to Virgil given the chance, as many would. For the most part I think he's done well given his age and the fact he's stepped into a bit of a shit show. 18 million isn't extortionate but given everything else going on it's not exactly small change. If we can renegotiate the price down to under 15 million it could be a very good deal.
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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1437 on: April 11, 2021, 12:57:52 pm »
Like who? Bear in mind two of our 3 CBs are 30 or about to hit 30 the profile has to be a young player

Matip is as good as finished - you can't even rely on him to be a backup. If/When he regains fitness and we can get someone crazy enough to pay his wages he should be as good as gone.

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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1438 on: April 11, 2021, 01:40:48 pm »
Matip is as good as finished - you can't even rely on him to be a backup. If/When he regains fitness and we can get someone crazy enough to pay his wages he should be as good as gone.
if he's finished as you say then nobody is going to buy him are they?
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Re: Kabak signs
« Reply #1439 on: April 11, 2021, 02:39:32 pm »
if he's finished as you say then nobody is going to buy him are they?
I don't think he mentioned anyone buying him.