Author Topic: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ  (Read 23471 times)

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #200 on: March 18, 2019, 05:56:34 pm »
Max of 14 years (each charge) for man accused of sharing a live-stream of the mass shooting, plus other activities designed to incite violence. Also no bail.

How many others have shared the video though?

Seems a bit strange unless he is an accomplice.

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #201 on: March 18, 2019, 06:42:25 pm »
How many others have shared the video though?

Seems a bit strange unless he is an accomplice.


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Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #202 on: March 18, 2019, 07:44:34 pm »

Arses are a twitching at this news.
And so they should be. No-one should have shared that crap and if those who did end up getting their collars felt, I'm fine with that.

Might make people think twice in future. It's not a fucking game and nor is it a right to share footage of people being murdered in cold blood, even though so many seem to think it is, just because the tech makes it so easy.

Would you expect to get away with sharing child porn or snuff porn?

God, I sound so fucking reactionary and censorious, even though that's the opposite of what I am. Blaargh! All this is so fucked-up
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 07:47:02 pm by Ghost Town »
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Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #203 on: March 18, 2019, 09:20:47 pm »
And so they should be. No-one should have shared that crap and if those who did end up getting their collars felt, I'm fine with that.

Might make people think twice in future. It's not a fucking game and nor is it a right to share footage of people being murdered in cold blood, even though so many seem to think it is, just because the tech makes it so easy.

Would you expect to get away with sharing child porn or snuff porn?

God, I sound so fucking reactionary and censorious, even though that's the opposite of what I am. Blaargh! All this is so fucked-up

Spot on. I don't think its particularly reactionary. Sentence should be exactly the same as it is for uploading a snuff film, as that's exactly what is it is.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #204 on: March 18, 2019, 09:28:23 pm »
And so they should be. No-one should have shared that crap and if those who did end up getting their collars felt, I'm fine with that.

Might make people think twice in future. It's not a fucking game and nor is it a right to share footage of people being murdered in cold blood, even though so many seem to think it is, just because the tech makes it so easy.

Would you expect to get away with sharing child porn or snuff porn?

God, I sound so fucking reactionary and censorious, even though that's the opposite of what I am. Blaargh! All this is so fucked-up

Spot on. I don't think its particularly reactionary. Sentence should be exactly the same as it is for uploading a snuff film, as that's exactly what is it is.

Yep. If you knowingly distribute this particularly with the intent to incite violence, you deserve the full weight of the law. It's not a game. It might also make a few trolls and media outlets think twice

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #205 on: March 18, 2019, 09:33:57 pm »
How many others have shared the video though?

Seems a bit strange unless he is an accomplice.

Downloading or distributing child pornography makes you a criminal. So should this.
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Offline Brissyred

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #206 on: March 19, 2019, 08:05:14 am »
The NRA have offered to help and fund a fight against any gun reform in NZ............

c*nts.......

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #207 on: March 19, 2019, 08:09:28 am »
The NRA have offered to help and fund a fight against any gun reform in NZ............

c*nts.......

Quote
Nicole McKee from the New Zealand Council of Licenced Firearm Owners says it received messages of condolence from the NRA over the weekend.
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Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #208 on: March 19, 2019, 08:20:00 am »
I understand the anger against Facebook. I truly do. But I get the sense this anger is being drummed up as a strategy to take the heat away from the Liberal party in Australia and the local press. I have lived in Australia for nearly 10 years now. In that time, I have seen how the hatred and stereotyping of immigrants, particularly brown and black ones has been mainstreamed. I understand there were riots in the early 2000's that led to a bit of self-reflection but the same folks that whipped up a frenzy then have been whipping up a frenzy now. Tony Abbott, Scott Morrison, Peter Dutton and their likes have constantly dog-whistled about immigrants during my time here at least. I have no reason to imagine things were much better before this.

Maybe they don't actually believe the things they say and maybe they do it just to appeal to a certain base and win votes. But they've been doing it constantly. And they appear to have assumed that nothing crazy would happen in this part of the world, so they wouldn't have to pay for it. Well, it just did and since it has happened, all I hear is about how such actions are vile and such sentiments are vile. A complete backflip. A pretence that they are deeply wounded by the words of a few that has led to this situation. I have no reason to believe them. I think they're only so vocal in their condemnation because elections are around the corner. I hope the Liberal party gets dumped on its arse. And I hope there is a much stronger and more earnest action to ensure this never happens.
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Offline GreatEx

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #209 on: March 19, 2019, 09:12:34 am »
In Australia we have a proud tradition of claiming successful or notable New Zealanders as our own. Russell Crowe, Sam Neill, etc etc.

In that spirit, I'd like to commend Australian Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on her response to this tragedy (and not just this, she's been an awesome leader from day one).

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #210 on: March 19, 2019, 09:58:15 am »
In Australia we have a proud tradition of claiming successful or notable New Zealanders as our own. Russell Crowe, Sam Neill, etc etc.

In that spirit, I'd like to commend Australian Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on her response to this tragedy (and not just this, she's been an awesome leader from day one).

Ditto
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Offline Farman

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #211 on: March 19, 2019, 12:16:09 pm »
I was thinking about the NZ PM wearing the hijab in solidarity, and wondered if our own beloved Theresa May would ever do that under similar circumstances.

No, of course she wouldn’t. And actually in a sense I wouldn’t blame her. What would stop her (if she even considered it) would be the optics, in the face of the right wing press and the frankly racist undertone in the country right now. It would lose her (more) popularity and votes. It’s a sad reflection of where the UK is.
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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #212 on: March 19, 2019, 12:17:02 pm »
The way that blonde people are exalted by the media has never sat right with me. They're often referred to as 'angelic' and we know that blonde children who go missing often receive more coverage (read sympathy) than other children. Harks back to positive eugenics theory and the lionisation of the aryan race. I wonder if he'd had jet black hair as a kid what the narrative would have been.

Pretty much the same, tabloids usually go for the sensationalist take, which in these cases is how the before and after are so different.

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #213 on: March 19, 2019, 12:28:38 pm »
The New York Times
Don’t Speak the Name of the Suspect, New Zealand’s Leader Urges After Shooting
 DAMIEN CAVE and EMILY STEEL 
2 hrs ago


CHRISTCHURCH, New Zealand — The man accused of carrying out the attack that killed 50 people at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, is expected to represent himself in court, but the country’s prime minister said on Tuesday that she wants to do everything possible to deny him the attention he craves.

“He is a terrorist. He is a criminal. He is an extremist,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said in an address to Parliament. “But he will, when I speak, be nameless.”

“And to others, I implore you,” she added, “speak the names of those who were lost, rather than name of the man who took them. He may have sought notoriety, but we in New Zealand will give him nothing. Not even his name.”

Her comments — which included a demand for internet platforms like Facebook to do a better job controlling hateful content — reflect a global struggle that has caught this small, open and friendly country by surprise: how to avoid fueling fame for a man accused of killing and his message even as officials and the news media try to better understand the forces that led to his apparent radicalization.

The push to deny oxygen for what feels like a perpetual flame of hate has been gathering momentum ever since the attack, and reaches beyond the government.
.
On Tuesday, New Zealand’s largest broadband providers published an open letter to the chief executives of Facebook, Twitter and Google, calling on them “to be a part of an urgent discussion at an industry and New Zealand government level” about how to deny access to content created by the suspected killer, Brenton Harrison Tarrant, 28.

The companies — Vodafone NZ, Spark and 2degrees — acknowledged suspending access to websites that were hosting video footage of the Friday attacks that had been streamed live online. But they said there was only so much they could do without more engagement from the tech platforms.

“Internet service providers are the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, with blunt tools involving the blocking of sites after the fact,” the companies said, adding that social media companies “have a legal duty of care to protect their users and wider society by preventing the uploading and sharing of content such as this video.”

The Association of New Zealand Advertisers also said in a statement Tuesday that local businesses were considering pulling their ads from Facebook, questioning whether they wanted to be “associated with social media platforms unable or unwilling to take responsibility for content on those sites.”

“The events in Christchurch raise the question — if the site owners can target consumers with advertising in microseconds, why can’t the same technology be applied to prevent this kind of content being streamed live?” the group said.

Facebook, in an effort to combat the criticism, updated details Monday on how the gunman’s video of the shooting spread. The company said that video of the live broadcast was viewed 4,000 times, but it also said that within the first 24 hours it pulled about 1.5 million copied videos of the attack.

Of those, more than 1.2 million videos were blocked as they had been uploaded, and the company also said it cut off content that looked or sounded similar.

Missing from the data was the total number of views for all versions of the video.

The gunman’s efforts were clearly choreographed for internet fame and to spread a message of hate. Minutes before the attacks started, he published a manifesto to message boards where white supremacists gather, and included a link to the page where the streaming video of the shooting would appear.

But experts say it may not be enough to focus just on that content. New Zealand, like many countries, has often struggled with how seriously to take white supremacy, offline and online.

Anjum Rahman, the head of the Islamic Women’s Council of New Zealand, reported that her organization had tried to warn the government for years about growing vitriol toward Muslims and the rise of the so-called alt-right in New Zealand. In an op-ed for The Spinoff, a news website, she said her organization had asked for help from New Zealand’s security agencies and had written a “comprehensive report” for the government five years ago, outlining the group’s concerns.

“As far as we know, nothing concrete was done with that report,” she wrote.

In fact, one of the two mosques attacked Friday had pigs’ heads delivered to it in 2016 by men who gave Nazi salutes.

Jarrod Gilbert, a University of Canterbury sociologist who studies gangs in New Zealand, said that when Christchurch had a problem in the 1980s and 1990s with white supremacist skinheads, the authorities tended to dismiss them as a fringe group “because people never really wanted them here.”

He and other experts said it was important to distinguish between those gangs, which tended to draw lower-class and disenfranchised members, and the alt-right, which pulls in a wider demographic that’s more unpredictable and engaged with the theory and rhetoric of white nationalism.

“They’re entirely different, and this poses very different challenges,” he said. “The street thugs are easy to monitor, count, and counter; international online communities are very difficult to monitor.”

Part of the issue is that these groups are often private, hard to find and steeped in anonymity, and their words rarely translate into action.

And yet what the Christchurch attacks now show — according to government officials, including the prime minister — is that these groups need to be carefully watched because a handful of adherents may be motivated to act violently.

“There is no question that ideas and language of division and hate have existed for decades, but their form of distribution, the tools of organization — they are new,” Ms. Ardern said Tuesday.

And in the aftermath of such attacks, the cycle of attention can amplify risk. Studies have shown that terrorists often try to up the ante from the last high-profile attack. Ms. Ardern said Monday that her government was dealing with a flood of copycat threats and messages of hate.

The multiplier effect could also be seen on websites where white supremacists have tended to gather. While websites for at least two white nationalist groups in New Zealand — the New Zealand National Front and Dominion Movement — were disabled in the wake of Friday’s shooting, cached versions still allow readers to view the immediate responses to attacks.

On a cached site for the National Front, which has campaigned under the slogan, “It’s O.K. to be white,” reactions to the attack were divided. Some commenters expressed compassion for the victims, while others said the shootings were a “natural outcome.”

“This is ‘bad optics.’ I hope and pray that no one in the ethno-nationalist community has had anything to do with this,” one person wrote. “Because we know what’s coming: government crackdown, surveillance, increased gun control and an emboldened Antifa harassing us.”

Another person called the shootings a “brutal wake-up call” and said the victims deserved “no sympathy.”

A user called Celtic Warrior said, “Harsh medicine, indeed, but sadly, very necessary.”

The Dominion Movement is a year-old group that describes itself as a “fraternity of young New Zealand nationalists” united by the belief that “Europeans are the defining people of this nation and that they were essential in its creation.”

“We oppose the animosity and contempt this system holds for us and our people, we reject the entire concept of White guilt,” a cached version of its website reads.

As of Tuesday, the group’s Twitter and Instagram accounts had been suspended.

Whether these groups or others have a chance to amplify whatever Mr. Tarrant says when he appears in court — his next appearance is scheduled for April 5 — is still unknown. The judge in the case could ban cameras or find other ways to suppress information, according to lawyers.

Richard Peters, the duty lawyer at the suspected gunman’s first court appearance Saturday, said he didn’t know whether the man’s decision to represent himself would draw more attention to the case or less.

But for Ms. Ardern and many others, his efforts are best ignored, in court, and on the internet.

“I don’t have all of the answers now, but we must collectively find them,” she said. “And we must act.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/dont-speak-the-name-of-the-suspect-new-zealands-leader-urges-after-shooting/ar-BBUWYw7




'Scumbag"  tells his version of John Lennon slay
BY KENNETH LOVETT
DAILY NEWS ALBANY BUREAU CHIEF

Tuesday, August 19th 2008, 11:30 PM

 
ALBANY - The man who killed John Lennon says he's sorry he shot the legendary rocker - but disputed media reports on how the murder went down.

"I shot him in the back," --------"Scumbag"-----  told a two-person Parole Board panel last week during a hearing before being denied release for a fifth time.

He denied longstanding media accounts that he called out to Lennon as he and his wife, Yoko Ono, returned to their Dakota building apartment after a late-night recording session.

"I don't recall saying, 'Mr. Lennon,'" Scumbag said. "I think that was something the press elaborated on. That didn't happen. He didn't turn. I shot him in the back."

Scumbag, who is serving a 20-year-to-life sentence at the upstate Attica Correctional Facility for the Dec. 8, 1980, murder, said he's not the same man today.

"I am ashamed," Scumbag said. "I am sorry for what I did. That 25-year-old man, I don't think he appreciated the life he was taking, that this was a human being.

"I feel now at 53 that I have grown into a deeper understanding of what a human life is. I have changed a lot."

Scumbag said while he might have had a beer that day, he was not on drugs and was of "clear mind" when he succumbed to his "compulsion" to kill Lennon.

He said he pleaded guilty to second-degree murder "for my conscience's sake. I felt the Lord had told me to plead guilty at that time, and I did."

Scumbag retold how he traveled to New York City twice to kill Lennon.

"I had been going through some problems and was very confused ... and was feeling like a big nothing and a nobody," he said.

He had taken out some books on Lennon from the library and felt he was a "phony" for singing of love while living in a ritzy building.

"It was more about me and not him, I was probably mad at myself for my failures," he said.

The last straw was when he saw Lennon's face on the Sgt. Pepper's album cover.

"I just saw his face and it seemed like it all came together, the solution to my problem of being confused and feeling like a nobody," he said. "And I said, 'Wouldn't it be something if I killed this individual? I would become famous, I would be something other than a nobody.' And that was my reasoning at the time."

He recalled how he bought a gun with hollow-point bullets from a friend in Georgia, telling him it was simply for protection in New York City.

After returning to Hawaii following an aborted first attempt, "The urges built again about doing this, and then I flew back on Dec. 6, and on the 8th I shot Mr. Lennon."

Ono asked the board to deny Scumbag parole.

The board agreed, saying his release would "not be compatible with the welfare of society at large."



Imo, assassins seeking infamy should be relegated to anonymity.  Printing their names encourages copycats.
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Offline OOS

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #214 on: March 19, 2019, 12:40:31 pm »

Arses are a twitching at this news.

There will come a time when what is posted and shared online, will have real life conquences. There needs to be more accountability online. From fake news, to spreading hateful content. Now, there will be a tricky line between freedom of speech and hate speech, but we can't sit around doing nothing.
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Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #215 on: March 19, 2019, 03:24:10 pm »
Jacinda Ardern has been fantastic throughout this crisis. Better than most other leaders in recent years. An impressive and humane Prime Minister.

Shame we can't fly her in to sort out the UK
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Offline Red_Mist

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #216 on: March 19, 2019, 06:29:12 pm »
There will come a time when what is posted and shared online, will have real life conquences. There needs to be more accountability online. From fake news, to spreading hateful content. Now, there will be a tricky line between freedom of speech and hate speech, but we can't sit around doing nothing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-47596446

Just read the article above about these vile websites that I’d never heard of before. They need to be taken down. This is hate speech on a massive scale and anyone posting it should be put on a terror watch list. It has to get to the point where they cannot get away with posting this shit anonymously. It has to get them sacked, or arrested or both. I don’t actually see a blurred line between free speech and hate speech. I think it’s pretty fucking clear and these sites and the posters on them should be treated like the criminals they are.

Offline Conocinico

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #217 on: March 19, 2019, 07:34:12 pm »
And so they should be. No-one should have shared that crap and if those who did end up getting their collars felt, I'm fine with that.

I don't agree with that. Surely it's better that everybody sees how disgusting his act was? Even those who agree with many parts of his manifesto would see that there was no justification for his actions.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #218 on: March 19, 2019, 07:37:43 pm »
I don't agree with that. Surely it's better that everybody sees how disgusting his act was? Even those who agree with many parts of his manifesto would see that there was no justification for his actions.
Or it'll give people the idea that people want to follow that and go through with their own version.

Offline Conocinico

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #219 on: March 19, 2019, 07:41:44 pm »
Or it'll give people the idea that people want to follow that and go through with their own version.

Yeah that's the theory. Contain the reaction. I think that shining a light on things helps you to see more clearly, if you know what I mean.
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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #220 on: March 19, 2019, 07:45:11 pm »
Yeah that's the theory. Contain the reaction. I think that shining a light on things helps you to see more clearly, if you know what I mean.

I think there is a proper way to shine light on things. Proper researchers producing well-made documentaries, books, investigative journalism, peer-reviewed articles etc. Uncritical and gleeful sharing over social media is not the way to create an educational and reflective environment.
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Offline GreatEx

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #221 on: March 19, 2019, 07:46:19 pm »
I don't agree with that. Surely it's better that everybody sees how disgusting his act was? Even those who agree with many parts of his manifesto would see that there was no justification for his actions.

Your mistake is that you think these people have a shred of compassion. Look at the 8chan screen shots earlier in the thread, look at my account of a conversation with a terrorist sympathiser. They cheered the attack, they revelled in the video. People who were inclined towards violence before the attack will be inspired, not disgusted, by the video, as hard as it is for us decent folk to understand. Like child porn, like other snuff films.

Offline Conocinico

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #222 on: March 19, 2019, 07:48:35 pm »
I think there is a proper way to shine light on things. Proper researchers producing well-made documentaries, books, investigative journalism, peer-reviewed articles etc. Uncritical and gleeful sharing over social media is not the way to create an educational and reflective environment.

Filtered through the lens of the intelligent. Yeah well OK I have more faith in people than you do I suppose.

Your mistake is that you think these people have a shred of compassion. Look at the 8chan screen shots earlier in the thread, look at my account of a conversation with a terrorist sympathiser. They cheered the attack, they revelled in the video. People who were inclined towards violence before the attack will be inspired, not disgusted, by the video, as hard as it is for us decent folk to understand. Like child porn, like other snuff films.

And you.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #223 on: March 19, 2019, 07:52:02 pm »
Filtered through the lens of the intelligent. Yeah well OK I have more faith in people than you do I suppose.

I'm the opposite of you, if the trump administration has done anything, it's lessened my faith in people.

Offline vagabond

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #224 on: March 19, 2019, 07:55:43 pm »
Filtered through the lens of the intelligent. Yeah well OK I have more faith in people than you do I suppose.

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because of a church that stands somewhere in the East.
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Offline Conocinico

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #225 on: March 19, 2019, 07:56:11 pm »
I'm the opposite of you, if the trump administration has done anything, it's lessened my faith in people.

I'm pessimistic too but I figure I might as well pretend I'm optimistic, it might do some good. Ha.
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Offline GreatEx

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #226 on: March 19, 2019, 07:56:31 pm »
Here's a better idea for people who "need" to watch the live feed to understand how bad it was:

1. Find a photo of the 3-year old boy who was murdered
2. Stare into his eyes for 60 seconds
3. If your heart's not broken, you're already beyond salvation

Offline Conocinico

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #227 on: March 19, 2019, 07:57:03 pm »


There's being soft and there's being hard, what science is aeronautics?
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #228 on: March 19, 2019, 07:57:04 pm »
I'm pessimistic too but I figure I might as well pretend I'm optimistic, it might do some good. Ha.

I tried for year after trump won to try and see the positive side and be optimistic. Gave up.

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #229 on: March 19, 2019, 08:00:42 pm »
Filtered through the lens of the intelligent. Yeah well OK I have more faith in people than you do I suppose.

And you.

You have some very strange views on immigration, I'm beginning to question your motives for allowing videos like this one to be seen.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline Conocinico

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #230 on: March 19, 2019, 08:04:37 pm »
You have some very strange views on immigration, I'm beginning to question your motives for allowing videos like this one to be seen.

Thanks flash, quick as an arrow as always.
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Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #231 on: March 19, 2019, 08:18:55 pm »
I don't agree with that. Surely it's better that everybody sees how disgusting his act was? Even those who agree with many parts of his manifesto would see that there was no justification for his actions.

I take it you haven't seen the comments supporting the killers actions.

Anyone who distributes, downloads or watches the video is either a criminal, a potential criminal or mentally unstable.

Offline GreatEx

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #232 on: March 19, 2019, 08:21:27 pm »
I'm guessing distribution of child porn isn't very effective in preventing child sexual abuse either.

Offline vagabond

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #233 on: March 19, 2019, 08:22:04 pm »
There's being soft and there's being hard, what science is aeronautics?

Honestly, I'm really not sure why you think requesting that sober and serious light be shone on these acts by experts is somehow showing no faith in people.
Sometimes a man stands up during supper
and walks outdoors, and keeps on walking,
because of a church that stands somewhere in the East.
---Rilke

Offline Chakan

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #234 on: March 19, 2019, 08:41:21 pm »
Because while that process you describe is undoubtedly necessary, to assume that everybody else haven't the capability to interpret the video without that filter, reveals what you think.

It's not the 95% of people that look at the video with disgust, it's the other 5% that revel in it.

Offline Conocinico

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #235 on: March 19, 2019, 08:41:44 pm »
Honestly, I'm really not sure why you think requesting that sober and serious light be shone on these acts by experts is somehow showing no faith in people.

Because while that process you describe is undoubtedly necessary, to assume that everyone else isn't capable of interpreting the video without this filter is revealing.
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Offline vagabond

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #236 on: March 19, 2019, 08:46:36 pm »
Because while that process you describe is undoubtedly necessary, to assume that everyone else isn't capable of interpreting the video without this filter is revealing.

Nope the majority can interpret the events even without watching the video. I'm just not clear why some people, who you don't think know what to make of these events, need to see this unedited video to make their minds up.
Sometimes a man stands up during supper
and walks outdoors, and keeps on walking,
because of a church that stands somewhere in the East.
---Rilke

Offline Conocinico

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #237 on: March 19, 2019, 08:48:53 pm »
Nope the majority can interpret the events even without watching the video.

Oh ok.
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Offline Conocinico

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #238 on: March 19, 2019, 08:52:34 pm »
Nope the majority can interpret the events even without watching the video.

Do you think those in law enforcement, or academia, or government, the experts-as you describe them-will watch the video or not? Because you're not being consistent as far as I can tell.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Mass shooting in Christchurch NZ
« Reply #239 on: March 19, 2019, 08:58:17 pm »
Do you think those in law enforcement, or academia, or government, the experts-as you describe them-will watch the video or not? Because you're not being consistent as far as I can tell.


The Jury will certainly have to sit and watch it.
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill