Author Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General  (Read 1298912 times)

Offline Barneylfc∗

  • Cross-dressing man-bag wielding golfer. Wannabe Mod. Coprophiliac. Would like to buy an airline seat if he could. Known 'grass'. Wants to go home to He-Man
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,613
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5440 on: November 10, 2019, 08:46:22 pm »
Quote
Premier League referees are to be encouraged to make more use of pitchside VAR monitors, referees' chief Mike Riley is expected to tell clubs later this week.

All 20 top-flight clubs will be represented at a meeting with Riley in central London on Thursday.

Top of the agenda will be the ongoing controversies around VAR, which continued on Saturday when Sheffield United had a goal ruled out at Tottenham because of a marginal offside decision.

Riley will be quizzed about various VAR issues, including inconsistencies in decision-making and the time it takes for rulings to be made, which in some instances have been several minutes after goals are scored.

It is acknowledged that solutions are not straightforward. However, it is anticipated Riley will tell clubs the on-field referee will make more use of monitors.

It was envisaged that would happen from the point VAR came into use in the Premier League but Riley advised referees not to use them in order to prevent additional delays.

It is now felt the on-field referee is best placed to make marginal calls because they are more aware of the flow of the game and the atmosphere at the time.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50367354
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Offline Nessy76

  • Shits alone and doesn't condone public self-molestation. Literally Goldenballs' biggest fan
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,993
  • We All Live In A Red And White Klopp
    • Andrew Ness Photographer
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5441 on: November 10, 2019, 08:48:15 pm »
Do us a favour, instead of coming up with VAR scenarios that then happen, can you post that I win the Euromillions on Tuesday instead ;)

Spooky, isn't it?
Fuck the Daily Mail.
Abolish FIFA

Online Nick110581

  • Up the tricky reds
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 38,451
  • Hearts Jurgen
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5442 on: November 10, 2019, 08:50:14 pm »
Oh there is no debate, the Silva handball leads to a disallowed goal if it goes in. It was two rapid ricochets off two hands arms that neither player intended. Oliver and VAR was 100% correct no pen.

Gives the fuckwits on Blue Loon something to foam about tonight :lmao

Yeah - more lenient with ricochets apparently.
No, jazz. You fear jazz. You fear the lack of rules, the lack of boundaries. Oh look, it's a fence. But, no, it's soft.

Offline Roger Federer

  • Christ imagine naming yourself after Roger Federer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,424
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5443 on: November 10, 2019, 09:16:44 pm »
They had at half time, hardly got a mention.
So glad I don’t watch Sky here, on my broadcast they mentioned it right away at half time, and spent very little time talking about any ”controvery”. More about the quality of the game, and how good we both were, especially our performance.

Offline Legoland

  • Plazzie Brick Lid :)
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 584
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5444 on: November 10, 2019, 09:18:20 pm »
Can someone imagine what would've happened if Atkinson had refereed this game? Thank fuck we had someone competent like Michael Oliver.

Offline rafathegaffa83

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 41,943
  • Dutch Class
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5445 on: November 11, 2019, 02:54:00 am »
Riley is going to tell the refs to start using the monitors more
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/50367354?

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,759
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5446 on: November 11, 2019, 03:06:11 am »
The PGMOL and PL are having a meeting with "Northern" teams and managers on Monday to discuss VAR.
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline Clayton Bigsby

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,467
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5447 on: November 11, 2019, 04:01:56 am »
Have the handball rules changed? Obviously happy went in our favour but surprised that TAA didn't concede penalty when Sterling hit the ball at his hand. I remember Iran getting a penalty at the world cup for a much harsher handball (Croatia in final was harsh as well) so I thought there was less leeway

Online rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,268
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5448 on: November 11, 2019, 07:53:39 am »
Have the handball rules changed? Obviously happy went in our favour but surprised that TAA didn't concede penalty when Sterling hit the ball at his hand. I remember Iran getting a penalty at the world cup for a much harsher handball (Croatia in final was harsh as well) so I thought there was less leeway

Its an utter mess. MOTD2 said that the PGMOL informed them when asked that Silvas handball would have ruled out any goal if the ball had gone to Sterling (apt name for the greedy bastard) but isn't counted in the decision on Trent. Last time I looked a penalty was a goal scoring opportunity, so if the handball leads to a goal, then surely if it directly leads to a penalty, that has to be considered too?????

They are quite strict in the PL on distance and if a ball is driven at a player a lot won't give it. It is in the laws that distance is a factor in the referees decision. Both of Trents were deemed that he didn't have time to react, the first looks a lot worse in slow mo - annoyance for me was Shearer saying Trents arm wasn't in a natural position, err what about Agueros arms then, is he trying to handle the ball or are his arms just there due to natural movement?

Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

  • Not so pleasant non-upholstered footer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,680
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5449 on: November 11, 2019, 08:38:26 am »
As ridiculous as ever really. The PGMOL had the perfect reason for not awarding the penalty, all they had to do was say it could not be given because Bernado handled it first and any handball leading to a goalscoring opportunity is an offence. But no, they not only try and come out with a different explanation but totally dismiss the explanation they should have given. Idiots. All of them. Except Michael Oliver, he is great.

Edit: Both Bobby Madley and Mark Clattenburg have come out and said why the penalty actually couldn't be given. Its no surprise that individual referees know what they are doing more than their bosses (or former bosses). Its just a shame they are taking their orders from them.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 08:53:11 am by LovelyCushionedHeader »
And if the rain stops, and everything's dry.. she would cry, just so I could drink tears from her eyes.

Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

  • Cut the music! Missed the 'Saka is shite!' memo.
  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,849
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5450 on: November 11, 2019, 08:49:26 am »
Can someone imagine what would've happened if Atkinson had refereed this game? Thank fuck we had someone competent like Michael Oliver.

Absolutely. Oliver is the only decent ref in this league, and probably the only one who deserves to be in the World Cup.
Rick for the rikes, prick for the pricks

SLAVA
UKRAINI

Online Nick110581

  • Up the tricky reds
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 38,451
  • Hearts Jurgen
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5451 on: November 11, 2019, 09:29:00 am »
Think it is a penalty in isolation but the rules are so unclear.

You disallow the goal if it goes to Sterling and he scores as Silva handled it but choose to ignore in this instance.
No, jazz. You fear jazz. You fear the lack of rules, the lack of boundaries. Oh look, it's a fence. But, no, it's soft.

Online rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,268
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5452 on: November 11, 2019, 09:33:58 am »
Think it is a penalty in isolation but the rules are so unclear.

You disallow the goal if it goes to Sterling and he scores as Silva handled it but choose to ignore in this instance.

The rules are a mess, but I'm not even convinced it is a penalty. The photos make it look worse, but at full speed Trent had half a second to react. Also, as I posted, look at Aguero, his stance is almost identical to Trent and his arms are higher. Now if he is doing that to keep his balance, surely Trent is going to do the same.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Online Nick110581

  • Up the tricky reds
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 38,451
  • Hearts Jurgen
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5453 on: November 11, 2019, 09:36:04 am »
The rules are a mess, but I'm not even convinced it is a penalty. The photos make it look worse, but at full speed Trent had half a second to react. Also, as I posted, look at Aguero, his stance is almost identical to Trent and his arms are higher. Now if he is doing that to keep his balance, surely Trent is going to do the same.

Exactly.

The rules don't help it but you can't give a penalty if it comes off Silvas hand in my opinion.
No, jazz. You fear jazz. You fear the lack of rules, the lack of boundaries. Oh look, it's a fence. But, no, it's soft.

Offline driftinwest

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,033
  • You'll Never Walk Alone.
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5454 on: November 11, 2019, 01:01:01 pm »
Did anyone hear what Riley had to say about it on ref watch?
If my assistant had not signalled a goal, I would have given a penalty and sent off goalkeeper Patr Cheh. he beeped me to signal the foul. The noise from the crowd  stopped me hearing it, I have been involved at places like Barcelona, Ibrox, Old Trafford, Arsenal, but I've never in my life been involved in such an atmosphere. IT WAS INCREDIBLE

Offline Barneylfc∗

  • Cross-dressing man-bag wielding golfer. Wannabe Mod. Coprophiliac. Would like to buy an airline seat if he could. Known 'grass'. Wants to go home to He-Man
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,613
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5455 on: November 11, 2019, 01:50:37 pm »
Did anyone hear what Riley had to say about it on ref watch?

Gallagher?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11859349/ref-watch-var-correct-to-stick-with-on-field-decision-for-trent-alexander-arnold-handball-says-dermot-Gallagher

Quote
Dermot Gallagher says VAR was correct to go with the on-field decision by Michael Oliver in the Trent Alexander-Arnold handball shout, while the former Premier League referee also assesses other VAR calls from another weekend full of controversy.

From controversial goal decisions, penalties not given for handball, and big toes being offside, it's been another eventful weekend for Premier League referees.

So how did Dermot see it? Here's Sky Sports News' resident ref's view...

Liverpool 3-1 Manchester City

INCIDENT: Fabinho fired the hosts ahead with a superb strike from distance in the top-of-the-table clash at Anfield, but moments before, Trent Alexander-Arnold appeared to handle a cross at the other end. Referee Michael Oliver waved play on but had VAR decided a foul had been committed, Fabinho's goal would have been ruled out and a penalty awarded to Manchester City.

Oliver did not feel that the incident was a deliberate act and that the defender was consistent with his movement in the penalty box. Oliver was in constant contact with the match VAR, Paul Tierney at Stockley Park, in the moments after the incident. As Tierney did not believe a clear and obvious error had been made, no penalty was given. Tierney agreed that Alexander-Arnold's arms had not been in an unnatural position when the ball struck him.

DERMOT'S VERDICT: I don't think it's a penalty.

DERMOT SAYS: This incident has to be an on-field decision, as Oliver has the best view.

There's an angle where the referee makes the decision, we don't need to talk about the VAR, the on-field referee makes the decision. Straight away, he says no penalty. He sees the speed of the ball and he sees it hit Alexander-Arnold on the arm. I think he's got the best view of everybody - he's an amazing athlete to keep up with play.

Remember, a ball striking an arm isn't a penalty. Oliver will have communicated with the VAR that the ball came too quickly at Alexander-Arnold - once Oliver makes that call, then VAR will never ever get involved. If you asked 100 neutral football fans about the decision, you'd have a split vote. There would not be a majority. Even if the referee had come over to the pitch-side monitor, he wouldn't have reversed his decision.

Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Offline Nessy76

  • Shits alone and doesn't condone public self-molestation. Literally Goldenballs' biggest fan
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,993
  • We All Live In A Red And White Klopp
    • Andrew Ness Photographer
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5456 on: November 11, 2019, 02:06:16 pm »
Its an utter mess. MOTD2 said that the PGMOL informed them when asked that Silvas handball would have ruled out any goal if the ball had gone to Sterling (apt name for the greedy bastard) but isn't counted in the decision on Trent. Last time I looked a penalty was a goal scoring opportunity, so if the handball leads to a goal, then surely if it directly leads to a penalty, that has to be considered too?????

They are quite strict in the PL on distance and if a ball is driven at a player a lot won't give it. It is in the laws that distance is a factor in the referees decision. Both of Trents were deemed that he didn't have time to react, the first looks a lot worse in slow mo - annoyance for me was Shearer saying Trents arm wasn't in a natural position, err what about Agueros arms then, is he trying to handle the ball or are his arms just there due to natural movement?



I challenge anyone to stand how Trent is stood here, with both knees bent, and not have your arms in that position. It is absolutely natural posture. (As is Silva's, for that matter.)
Fuck the Daily Mail.
Abolish FIFA

Offline Rush 82

  • Seth Iffricans don't take the dog out for a walk - they take the line out!
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,105
  • From Cape Town to Anfield
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5457 on: November 11, 2019, 02:17:37 pm »
I challenge anyone to stand how Trent is stood here, with both knees bent, and not have your arms in that position. It is absolutely natural posture. (As is Silva's, for that matter.)
I have this picture in my head of all these massive Bellends trying to run forward at pace with their hands behind their backs or static at their sides like - beggars belief that any right minded individual can say that Trent and Agueros hands were in an unnatural position.

Offline rushyman

  • Not A Badgeman. Fuck him. Please. Someone. Anyone! But not Jonathan Pearce.....
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,421
  • On Halloween, parents send kids out lookin like me
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5458 on: November 11, 2019, 05:18:33 pm »
Duncan Castles on Twitter is hilarious

I actually don’t find it funny that a bloke that is an actual journo can go on like that

He sounds like an davek. That’s fine but when you work for the times you shouldn’t be allowed to spew that shit 

I’d be fucking mortified if a Liverpool fan who was a journo went on this way about United/Everton
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 05:25:49 pm by rushyman »
If you don't limit yourself with bad thoughts, you can fly

Jurgen Klopp

Online Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,331
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5459 on: November 11, 2019, 05:59:02 pm »
Oh there is no debate, the Silva handball leads to a disallowed goal if it goes in. It was two rapid ricochets off two hands arms that neither player intended. Oliver and VAR was 100% correct no pen.

Gives the fuckwits on Blue Loon something to foam about tonight :lmao

City fans probably think/hope that the goal would be given regardless of whether it was legit or not.  Hopefully VAR would rule it out but unfortunately we can never be sure.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline driftinwest

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,033
  • You'll Never Walk Alone.
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5460 on: November 11, 2019, 07:26:58 pm »
Gallagher?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11859349/ref-watch-var-correct-to-stick-with-on-field-decision-for-trent-alexander-arnold-handball-says-dermot-Gallagher

Thanks Barney, that's who I meant. Can't understand why he hasn't mentioned the ball coming off Silva's arm in the first place, I was in the lower KD and heard the kop call hand ball from Silva's challenge, couldn't see the ball come off Trent so was in the dark why they where checking VAR for Fabs goal.
If my assistant had not signalled a goal, I would have given a penalty and sent off goalkeeper Patr Cheh. he beeped me to signal the foul. The noise from the crowd  stopped me hearing it, I have been involved at places like Barcelona, Ibrox, Old Trafford, Arsenal, but I've never in my life been involved in such an atmosphere. IT WAS INCREDIBLE

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

  • Not so pleasant non-upholstered footer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,680
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5461 on: November 11, 2019, 07:53:12 pm »
Didn't realise Neil Swarbrick had this role (or that the role existed). A job for the boys if there ever was one.

Quote
The use of video assistant referees (VAR) in Premier League games has been given a mark of seven out of 10 by the man in charge despite strong criticism.

Neil Swarbrick says VAR will evolve and asked for fans to be patient after another weekend of controversy.

Sheffield United had a goal ruled out for a marginal offside at Spurs while Manchester City saw two penalty appeals for handball turned down at Liverpool.

"I'm really pleased, honestly, with how we have started out," said Swarbrick.

VAR was introduced in the Premier League this season after trials in the League Cup and FA Cup, but it has angered fans who cite inconsistencies in decision-making and say the time it takes for rulings to be made kills the passion and excitement of games.

Asked how he would rate the introduction of VAR out of 10, Swarbrick, the Premier League referees' lead on VAR, told BBC Sport: "I'd give us around about seven-ish.

"We have more decisions correct with VAR than without it. If the mark now is seven - early days - in two years' time I'm hoping for maybe a eight and a half or nine.

"We are open to evolving with this - it's not a case of we're not budging. We will listen to feedback and where we can improve things, we will do."
And if the rain stops, and everything's dry.. she would cry, just so I could drink tears from her eyes.

Offline Slick_Beef

  • RAWK's Master Baker
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,087
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5462 on: November 11, 2019, 09:00:47 pm »
I really notice how little the players celebrated Fab's goal yesterday, presumably because they thought it might be disallowed (Klopp said as much after the game on MOTD).  How have we got to the point where there can be any doubts about a 25 yard screamer. Fed up of this shite.

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

  • Keita's shit, Bundesliga's shit, Bundesliga 2's shit
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,502
  • RAWK Cheltenham 2020 Champion Tipster*
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5463 on: November 11, 2019, 09:12:07 pm »
Check out Lazio game today for some wild use of VAR - not just a prem league issue

Biggest myth in football that it works magically in other countries but not over here.

It takes too much from the game without giving enough back.

Offline Jake

  • Fuck VAR
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,120
  • Fuck VAR
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5464 on: November 11, 2019, 10:08:23 pm »
I really notice how little the players celebrated Fab's goal yesterday, presumably because they thought it might be disallowed (Klopp said as much after the game on MOTD).  How have we got to the point where there can be any doubts about a 25 yard screamer. Fed up of this shite.

Completely agree. Went bonkers for our first two goals and then all of a sudden you worry that someone has a pube offside and they're gonna call it back.

VAR spoiled the goals even though the decisions went our way, the very existence of it is a problem.
I'm not vaccinated against covid and ... I don't wear masks.

Offline YJT

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 619
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5465 on: November 11, 2019, 10:40:32 pm »
I don't watch that many half-time/full-time shows, but I was astounded how much shite so called "Analysts" can take about the game without being challenged. It really shows why the refs need to be mic'd up. I've mentioned it a couple of times, but in rugby when they're analysing a situation they explicitly go through the various factors that they need to take into account. French refs at the world cup in big games will even communicate in english so the dummies at home know what's going.

Mic'd up refs could easily have clarified what went on. Michael Oliver could have told VAR that he saw the ball deflect of Silva's hand onto Trent's, because of this it would definitely not have been a penalty, As Trent was so close and was unexpectedly deflected in a way he couldn't anticipate and his hands were in a natural position, he found there was no handball and thusly no need to bring back play for the first handball. It takes a lot of wind out of the media which are going after talking points rather than competently analysing the situation. The authorities would be forced to confirm whether this interpretation is right or wrong which helps create precidents and thusly consistency.

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,264
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5466 on: November 11, 2019, 11:30:33 pm »
...Not even really a VAR issue, this is just a result of the new handball rules not being thought through...

The new handball rules are a response to VAR.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,759
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5467 on: November 12, 2019, 12:35:49 am »
I don't watch that many half-time/full-time shows, but I was astounded how much shite so called "Analysts" can take about the game without being challenged. It really shows why the refs need to be mic'd up. I've mentioned it a couple of times, but in rugby when they're analysing a situation they explicitly go through the various factors that they need to take into account. French refs at the world cup in big games will even communicate in english so the dummies at home know what's going.

Mic'd up refs could easily have clarified what went on. Michael Oliver could have told VAR that he saw the ball deflect of Silva's hand onto Trent's, because of this it would definitely not have been a penalty, As Trent was so close and was unexpectedly deflected in a way he couldn't anticipate and his hands were in a natural position, he found there was no handball and thusly no need to bring back play for the first handball. It takes a lot of wind out of the media which are going after talking points rather than competently analysing the situation. The authorities would be forced to confirm whether this interpretation is right or wrong which helps create precidents and thusly consistency.


Q&A: VAR chief on big talking points

Communication: Shown an example of a clear decision broadcast to players and fans in rugby union, he said: "It took rugby union six or seven years to get to that position. That doesn't happen overnight. You've just got to give us time."

Broadcasting decisions: Could fans watch or listen to VAR decisions, as in rugby or cricket? "You cannot use any referee communications like that because IFAB (football's lawmakers) protocols don't allow us to."

Offside: Swarbrick said the one-pixel lines used by VAR were magnified for TV broadcast which could make decisions seem more marginal than they are. "We are held by the laws of the game. Once we have made that decision with the lines, there's no interpretation, no tolerance band. It's either onside or offside."

Pitchside monitors: Referees in the Premier League have not tended to use the review screens. Will that change? "Quite possibly it will do. At the moment, the feedback we are getting back from the clubs, managers, players etc is they are quite comfortable in how we are operating."
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline Rush 82

  • Seth Iffricans don't take the dog out for a walk - they take the line out!
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,105
  • From Cape Town to Anfield
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5468 on: November 12, 2019, 04:41:08 am »

Q&A: VAR chief on big talking points

Communication: Shown an example of a clear decision broadcast to players and fans in rugby union, he said: "It took rugby union six or seven years to get to that position. That doesn't happen overnight. You've just got to give us time."

Broadcasting decisions: Could fans watch or listen to VAR decisions, as in rugby or cricket? "You cannot use any referee communications like that because IFAB (football's lawmakers) protocols don't allow us to."

Offside: Swarbrick said the one-pixel lines used by VAR were magnified for TV broadcast which could make decisions seem more marginal than they are. "We are held by the laws of the game. Once we have made that decision with the lines, there's no interpretation, no tolerance band. It's either onside or offside."

Pitchside monitors: Referees in the Premier League have not tended to use the review screens. Will that change? "Quite possibly it will do. At the moment, the feedback we are getting back from the clubs, managers, players etc is they are quite comfortable in how we are operating."
Head firmly in the sand

Offline PhaseOfPlay

  • Well red.Tom Jones Lover. AKA Debbie McGee. Apparently.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,289
  • Under 7s Coaching Manual Owner.
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5469 on: November 12, 2019, 05:04:05 am »
Head firmly in the sand

I think you'll find he's just on...

Better looking than Samie.

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,291
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5470 on: November 12, 2019, 03:58:53 pm »
His fart is offside though, PoP.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Rush 82

  • Seth Iffricans don't take the dog out for a walk - they take the line out!
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,105
  • From Cape Town to Anfield
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5471 on: November 12, 2019, 04:00:39 pm »

Offline Jaz

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 67
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5472 on: November 13, 2019, 11:01:19 pm »
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/3988620/premier-league-without-var-man-city-reduce-liverpools-lead

"Liverpool have surged clear at the top, and believe it or not VAR has not been working in Jurgen Klopp's favour with overturns having no effect on their points tally. Liverpool are given a victory at Manchester United (drew 1-1) and a draw at Chelsea (won 2-1), which even themselves out. Maybe the title isn't going to be won in the VAR room."


Offline Walshy nMe®

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,372
  • Legend
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5473 on: November 14, 2019, 11:34:31 am »
That doesn't make sense, where have all our bribes to the refs gone then?

Offline Rush 82

  • Seth Iffricans don't take the dog out for a walk - they take the line out!
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,105
  • From Cape Town to Anfield
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5474 on: November 14, 2019, 11:44:07 am »
That doesn't make sense, where have all our bribes to the refs gone then?
Into their pockets?

Offline OneTouchFooty

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,712
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5475 on: November 14, 2019, 12:10:52 pm »

Q&A: VAR chief on big talking points

Communication: Shown an example of a clear decision broadcast to players and fans in rugby union, he said: "It took rugby union six or seven years to get to that position. That doesn't happen overnight. You've just got to give us time."

Broadcasting decisions: Could fans watch or listen to VAR decisions, as in rugby or cricket? "You cannot use any referee communications like that because IFAB (football's lawmakers) protocols don't allow us to."

Literally have a template for your VAR system that has been implemented excellently and has worked for years yet you choose not to pursue it. Typical FA, deliberately complicating matters when a law change to allow the right technology to work would suffice.

Offline Walshy nMe®

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,372
  • Legend
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5476 on: November 14, 2019, 12:59:00 pm »
I always wondered why they didn't have some of the overseas refs come over, and help implement VAR here.

Having refs who have used it, seen some problems and can give some advice/help to our refs would never be a bad thing. Also not sure why some of our refs can't go and ref in Europe to use it too.

Online rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,268
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5477 on: November 14, 2019, 04:51:45 pm »
I always wondered why they didn't have some of the overseas refs come over, and help implement VAR here.

Having refs who have used it, seen some problems and can give some advice/help to our refs would never be a bad thing. Also not sure why some of our refs can't go and ref in Europe to use it too.

Can't have them bloody foreigners telling them what to do. ;)

Being serious, they don't want VAR as they are looking at it all wrong. Instead of looking at it as a tool to help them in their decision making, they all think they are infallible and see it as something that questions their perfect abilities and are kicking back against it.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline PhaseOfPlay

  • Well red.Tom Jones Lover. AKA Debbie McGee. Apparently.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,289
  • Under 7s Coaching Manual Owner.
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5478 on: November 14, 2019, 05:01:10 pm »
Can't have them bloody foreigners telling them what to do. ;)

Being serious, they don't want VAR as they are looking at it all wrong. Instead of looking at it as a tool to help them in their decision making, they all think they are infallible and see it as something that questions their perfect abilities and are kicking back against it.

As right as you probably are, there's also the possibility they see it - as I have been saying - as something that goes against the spirit of the laws of the game and want it to fail because there are wider implications than getting a decision right on television. This is from the IFAB as a preamble to the LOTG:

Quote
Football is the greatest sport on earth. It is played in every country and at many different levels. The Laws of the Game are the same for all football throughout the world from the FIFA World Cup™ Final through to a game between young children in a remote village.

That the same Laws apply in every match in every confederation, country, town and village throughout the world is a considerable strength which must be preserved. This is also an opportunity which must be harnessed for the good of football everywhere.

The bolded bits are essentially my argument against VAR. Not that we don't need to get decisions correct (we do) or that referees are at times bordering on incompetent for the level they are at (they are), but that the idea that one set of opponents will get a different set of laws (going by the support for the centre ref to be "overruled" that we see so frequently here, for example) than another set not even a tier below, is something that might bristle with referees who started off in the junior and county leagues and worked their way up, and understand the simplicity and universality of the game should be preserved at all times. The emphasis should be on the "Assistant" part, and not on the "Referee" part, where so many outside observers place it.

Although they could just be jumped up muppets who don't want their authority questioned too ;D ;D ;D
Better looking than Samie.

Online CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,462
  • YNWA
Re: VAR! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing... ?
« Reply #5479 on: November 14, 2019, 05:04:35 pm »
The laws aren't different, how they are applied/decided are.

It's no different to goal line tech, mics to talk between linesmen and ref, the buzzy thing when a linesman flags, the spray for 10 yards, actually having linesmen, a 4th official, etc...all things not all levels of football have, but they simply aid the same rules/laws to be applied.