Author Topic: Virgil Van Dijk (Cpt)  (Read 1458979 times)

Offline MdArshad

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10760 on: August 16, 2022, 05:26:41 pm »
Plenty of last ditch tackles and blocks from our lads in Istanbul in '05. I guess we lost that then  :D

What Maldini means was you have lost the battle against the forward and not lose the match.

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,483
  • The first five yards........
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10761 on: August 16, 2022, 05:36:57 pm »
Plenty of last ditch tackles and blocks from our lads in Istanbul in '05. I guess we lost that then  :D

Indeed!
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,483
  • The first five yards........
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10762 on: August 16, 2022, 05:38:18 pm »
What Maldini means was you have lost the battle against the forward and not lose the match.

Again, nonsense.

That old Maldini quote has had a good run for its money. It's time to send it to the knackers' yard.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Barneylfc∗

  • Cross-dressing man-bag wielding golfer. Wannabe Mod. Coprophiliac. Would like to buy an airline seat if he could. Known 'grass'. Wants to go home to He-Man
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,998
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10763 on: August 16, 2022, 05:38:45 pm »
What Maldini means was you have lost the battle against the forward and not lose the match.

Which is still utter bollocks.
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Online newterp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,794
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10764 on: August 16, 2022, 05:40:39 pm »
Paulo Maldini said "If you as a defender have to resort to last ditch tackles then you've already lost".  8)

I thought that was Xabi Alonso?

Offline Samie

  • The next Pharaoh of Egypt. The Ev of drafting! Rumoured to be the 7th, we may need that old magic back! The Timekeeper, ask him what time the action starts.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 66,566
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10765 on: August 16, 2022, 05:46:08 pm »
Yes , who also stole it off another handsome bastard.

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,862
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10766 on: August 16, 2022, 05:51:54 pm »
I thought that was Xabi Alonso?
Quote from: The good Alonso brother
I don't think tackling is a quality. Tackling is a last resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to.

It seems the thread has been reduced to "are last ditch tackles worth bothering with or not?".  Of course they are if that's the only option left but the point is that it wasn't the only option left for Virgil.  We're judging his decision by the outcome but on many other occasions him standing up like he did will result in a weak shot that doesn't lead to a goal.

We're constantly denied by sprawling tackles and blocks but they're done in a crowded penalty area where the defender can always rely on a teammate filling the gap left by them diving in.  Last night Elliott put about three Palace players on their backsides in that first half but there were still at least two more standing in the way and one of them made a standing block on his goal-bound shot.

I'm sure we've all seen the meme video touted by Man U fans of when Martial put Virgil on his backside and scored against Southampton.  That wasn't necessarily the wrong choice by Virgil in that moment either but differing choices and both ended up with the ball in the net.  Such is the life of a defender.

On the Maldini quote I don't think it's saying you should just give up, it's more saying there's been a failure somewhere that you're in that situation.  Last night that failure was Fabinho getting turned too easily and Phillips playing Zaha onside (Virgil was playing him off).
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 05:56:06 pm by thaddeus »

Offline Lastrador

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,942
  • Not Italian
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10767 on: August 16, 2022, 05:55:54 pm »
Again, nonsense.

That old Maldini quote has had a good run for its money. It's time to send it to the knackers' yard.
Didn't Xabi Alonso make a similar statement once? About how he hated having to tackle because it meant he made a mistake or something to that effect? I think I understand the sentiment behind it, but I don't completely buy it either, as it negates the fact that football is a highly reactive and unpredictable game, where you can't read or predict every single instance in a game. Those two are some of the most cerebral players I had the pleasure of watching though, so they probably held themselves to a higher standard than the Lee Cattermole of the world, who took pride in it.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 05:58:57 pm by Lastrador »

Online newterp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,794
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10768 on: August 16, 2022, 06:20:33 pm »
Yes , who also stole it off another handsome bastard.

you think quite highly of yourself.

Offline Samie

  • The next Pharaoh of Egypt. The Ev of drafting! Rumoured to be the 7th, we may need that old magic back! The Timekeeper, ask him what time the action starts.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 66,566
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10769 on: August 16, 2022, 06:34:38 pm »
All I'm saying a top 3 of me, Paulo and Xabi and I'm fighting for second spot at least.

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,256
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10770 on: August 16, 2022, 06:35:25 pm »
All I'm saying a top 3 of me, Paulo and Xabi and I'm fighting for second spot at least.
But would end up coming fourth
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Online newterp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,794
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10771 on: August 16, 2022, 06:47:15 pm »
But would end up coming fourth

Samie is spurs

Offline Lastrador

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,942
  • Not Italian
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10772 on: August 16, 2022, 06:50:45 pm »
Samie is spurs
He’s more like Fulham in the drafting world.

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,483
  • The first five yards........
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10773 on: August 16, 2022, 07:14:19 pm »
Obviously if Xabi Alonso says there's no need to tackle then I too agree there is no need to tackle.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Crosby Nick

  • He was super funny. Used to do these super hilarious puns
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 111,903
  • Poultry in Motion
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10774 on: August 16, 2022, 08:01:29 pm »
Obviously if Xabi Alonso says there's no need to tackle then I too agree there is no need to tackle.

He certainly felt no need to tackle that Barnsley player when they knocked us out of the cup.

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,862
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10775 on: August 16, 2022, 08:05:01 pm »
He certainly felt no need to tackle that Barnsley player when they knocked us out of the cup.
Holding a grudge for nearly 15 years.  Impressive!

Offline Crosby Nick

  • He was super funny. Used to do these super hilarious puns
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 111,903
  • Poultry in Motion
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10776 on: August 16, 2022, 10:14:23 pm »
Holding a grudge for nearly 15 years.  Impressive!

Just trying to get a nibble from Yorky. Gary Barry would have clattered him. :D

Online robertobaggio37

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,250
  • But we will conquer the ball, each fucking time.
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10777 on: August 16, 2022, 10:45:02 pm »
He makes so much ground up he doesn't need to slide in, he can just front him.

This. Some of the posts saying he did all he could are bizarre, you’re a defender and your job is to defend first and foremost, nothing else like.
The biggest problem anywhere in the world is that people's perceptions of reality are filtered through the screening mesh of what they want, and do not want, to be true.

Online Sammy5IsAlive

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,854
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10778 on: August 17, 2022, 12:58:10 am »
I do disagree! He made it easier for Zaha, not harder, by choking back on his run.

Centre backs have to be prepared to look foolish now and then. I don't mean they have to be comedians like Maguire. But sometimes they need to risk their dignity to prevent a goal. My one criticism of the mighty Virg is that he seems reluctant to do this. The odds tonight were always with Zaha once he'd escaped Phillips. But the fact is that Virg's pace put him in position to try a block on the shot. The odds were still with the striker. And it's possible that Virg may have ended up on his arse with Zaha skinning him on the inside and then placing the ball in the back of the net. But without any challenge at all it was easy for Zaha.

I think this is a little unfair - if you concede you are going to get criticism either way. I remember people purring about his defending vs Spurs on the counter a while back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWrNNLc8sW0&ab_channel=TopOnly  - if Sissoko had kept his head and slotted it in he would have looked a right mug.

That time he played the percentages, won, and got tons of praise. This time he lost and is getting pelters for it. The life of a professional footballer!

[Edit] I do think part of it is that Alisson is playing at such a high level that our defenders are more willing than 'normal' to let a player take a difficult shot on goal with the mindset that they have to get the shot spot on to beat him. That doesn't work out - sometimes the opponent executes that 'perfect' finish like on Monday and obviously whilst Alisson is an elite keeper sometimes the shot gets past him. As fans I guess confirmation bias will lead us to remember the situations where we concede more.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 01:05:52 am by Sammy5IsAlive »

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

  • Rockwool Marketing Board Spokesman. Cracker Wanker. Fucking calmest man on RAWK, alright? ALRIGHT?! Definitely a bigger cunt than YOU!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,463
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10779 on: August 17, 2022, 01:43:34 am »
He wasn't at fault for the 1st,if anything it was Phillips because of his trailing leg playing him onside.
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,483
  • The first five yards........
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10780 on: August 17, 2022, 10:17:29 pm »
I think this is a little unfair - if you concede you are going to get criticism either way. I remember people purring about his defending vs Spurs on the counter a while back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWrNNLc8sW0&ab_channel=TopOnly  - if Sissoko had kept his head and slotted it in he would have looked a right mug.

That time he played the percentages, won, and got tons of praise. This time he lost and is getting pelters for it. The life of a professional footballer!

That was beautiful defending against Tottenham. But the two situations are hardly comparable. Virgil was up against two defenders against Spurs. A massive difference!
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Online Sammy5IsAlive

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,854
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10781 on: August 18, 2022, 02:13:24 am »
That was beautiful defending against Tottenham. But the two situations are hardly comparable. Virgil was up against two defenders against Spurs. A massive difference!

Agreed that they are different situations. The point I'm making is that both are potentially about playing the percentages and allowing a shot towards goal as the lesser of two evils. Whatever the gaps in his game are that mean he is not playing at a bigger club, Zaha is probably one of the last forwards in the league that you'd want to 'stand up' and gamble on making a tackle. If he goes past you he's free on goal. Maybe the penalty last week was also playing on VVDs mind. It's probably not something you can analyse without lots of data so in the end it comes down to your subjective opinion/'feel' for the passage of play. Personally I think Zaha scores a higher percentage from those situations where he wins the 1v1 and puts himself in front of goal with everything to aim at compared to taking on a shot from a worse angle with less to aim at against an elite goalie. That's just my take - YMMV.

Offline -Willo-

  • -the wisp-
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,487
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10782 on: August 18, 2022, 08:04:54 am »
He definitely needs to engage more, there was a ridiculous last season where Alisson saved it where he was jogging next to the striker, cannot remember the game but its the one flaw he has I think, knowing when to get stuck in.

Offline SamLad

  • Definitely not a numerologist! Definitely fodder for whimsical modding though... ;) Definitely not 72! Founding member of the Efes Animal Appreciation Society. Very mɪstʃɪvəs.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,751
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10783 on: August 18, 2022, 09:43:53 pm »
laughing at all these posters explaining how the best CB any of them has ever seen play is simply not doing it right.

I expect if you guys met him you'd be happy to share your advice with him directly?  I'm sure he'd love to hear it.

Offline Robinred

  • Wanted for burglary.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,747
  • Red since '64
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10784 on: August 18, 2022, 10:00:14 pm »
laughing at all these posters explaining how the best CB any of them has ever seen play is simply not doing it right.

I expect if you guys met him you'd be happy to share your advice with him directly?  I'm sure he'd love to hear it.

Don’t be such a smartarse. Posters are expressing an opinion on whether a true great got it wrong for once.
"The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology...as long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth." Mikhail Bakunin

Offline bird_lfc

  • Would much rather have a good wank than get behind the team. Champion of Luke Shaw’s reputation.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,860
  • JFT96
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10785 on: August 18, 2022, 10:09:05 pm »
laughing at all these posters explaining how the best CB any of them has ever seen play is simply not doing it right.

I expect if you guys met him you'd be happy to share your advice with him directly?  I'm sure he'd love to hear it.

So that makes him exempt from Criticism if he has a run of poor form or bad games then, yeah?

(I’m not suggesting he has personally, just this kind of attitude stinks and screams superfan)

Offline SamLad

  • Definitely not a numerologist! Definitely fodder for whimsical modding though... ;) Definitely not 72! Founding member of the Efes Animal Appreciation Society. Very mɪstʃɪvəs.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,751
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10786 on: August 18, 2022, 10:11:58 pm »
So that makes him exempt from Criticism if he has a run of poor form or bad games then, yeah?

(I’m not suggesting he has personally, just this kind of attitude stinks and screams superfan)
Don’t be such a smartarse. Posters are expressing an opinion on whether a true great got it wrong for once.

bollocks.  it's hyper-critical over-analysis that accomplishes the square root of eff-all other than some kind of weird "showing off" on a footie website.

tell me: what is this kind of criticism supposed to produce?

Offline bird_lfc

  • Would much rather have a good wank than get behind the team. Champion of Luke Shaw’s reputation.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,860
  • JFT96
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10787 on: August 18, 2022, 10:17:39 pm »
bollocks.  it's hyper-critical over-analysis that accomplishes the square root of eff-all other than some kind of weird "showing off" on a footie website.

tell me: what is this kind of criticism supposed to produce?

What is any Criticism on here ‘supposed to produce’ if that’s your attitude?

It’s a forum, we are here to discuss the good and the bad. I’m not expecting VVD to log on here and say ‘oh fuck bird_lfc has said I’ve performed below par recently , I better raise my game’ am I?

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,483
  • The first five yards........
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10788 on: August 18, 2022, 10:59:58 pm »
bollocks.  it's hyper-critical over-analysis that accomplishes the square root of eff-all other than some kind of weird "showing off" on a footie website.

tell me: what is this kind of criticism supposed to produce?

It obviously won't affect how Virgil Van Great plays.

But it might educate you.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline SamLad

  • Definitely not a numerologist! Definitely fodder for whimsical modding though... ;) Definitely not 72! Founding member of the Efes Animal Appreciation Society. Very mɪstʃɪvəs.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,751
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10789 on: August 18, 2022, 11:04:23 pm »
It obviously won't affect how Virgil Van Great plays.

But it might educate you.

LOL.  mind you don't trip over that ego, mate.

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,483
  • The first five yards........
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10790 on: August 18, 2022, 11:12:12 pm »
LOL.  mind you don't trip over that ego, mate.

Well I've certainly learnt stuff on here. I thought we all did. I doubt anyone - except maybe yourself  - posts stuff on football hoping the players will take note.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline SamLad

  • Definitely not a numerologist! Definitely fodder for whimsical modding though... ;) Definitely not 72! Founding member of the Efes Animal Appreciation Society. Very mɪstʃɪvəs.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,751
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10791 on: August 18, 2022, 11:20:07 pm »
Well I've certainly learnt stuff on here. I thought we all did. I doubt anyone - except maybe yourself  - posts stuff on football hoping the players will take note.
couldn't agree more.  learning stuff on here (most footie sites) is absolutely why I read so much, and I've learn tons and do regularly.

but I simply don't get the obsession some seem to have over microanalyzing errors to prove that "player X is actually human".  seems like pouncing on a tiny (perceived) weakness or flaw seems to give a lot of pleasure.

I get why ppl point out flaws that are repeated game after game.  but in this case it's something Virgil did ... if I'm following ... in one game.  or is the hypothesis that he has an ongoing weakness?

Offline ep1987

  • Emiliano Insua head coach
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10792 on: August 19, 2022, 03:24:50 pm »
Maybe I'm wrong but I do think there's a long running issue of Virgil wanting to appear as always in control leading to overly passive defending. Combined with Matip's timidity in 'scrambles' and lack of savviness (relative to other PL CBs) it leads to us conceding far more goals than we should do (especially against bottom half teams) given how talented those two are.

What's the point of individual player analysis on football forums? There likely isn't one outside of getting something off your chest so to speak; whether in defence of a player who is being criticised unfairly, in condemnation of one you think is getting an easy ride or just highlighting how you think improvement in certain aspects would benefit the team.

Offline Sharado

  • Stop crying
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,671
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10793 on: August 19, 2022, 03:28:12 pm »
tell me: what is this kind of criticism supposed to produce?

What is literally any post on RAWK supposed to produce? We're all just on here dicking around aren't we? We're not exactly doing the lords work here chatting waffle online.
3 midfielders minimum in the next window. And probably another young CB to boot.

Anything else is negligent.

Offline afc tukrish

  • How long for them sausages? Maggie May's Mythical Turkish Delight. RAWK's Expert Sausage Monster! Oakley Cannonier is fucking boss. Likes blowing his friends and undoing their nuts? Who nose?!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,943
  • This looks like a nice spot...
    • Flat Back Four
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10794 on: August 19, 2022, 03:57:57 pm »
What is literally any post on RAWK supposed to produce? We're all just on here dicking around aren't we? We're not exactly doing the lords work here chatting waffle online.

Don't know about you lot, I'm here for Giggs's poetry...
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Offline hide5seek

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,335
  • We all live in THE 5 EUROPEAN CUPS
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10795 on: August 20, 2022, 09:14:33 am »
laughing at all these posters explaining how the best CB any of them has ever seen play is simply not doing it right.

I expect if you guys met him you'd be happy to share your advice with him directly?  I'm sure he'd love to hear it.
Hansen retired years  ago.

Online newterp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,794
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10796 on: August 20, 2022, 11:59:23 am »
Don't know about you lot, I'm here for Giggs's poetry...

it's polemic ... in a manner of speaking

Offline afc tukrish

  • How long for them sausages? Maggie May's Mythical Turkish Delight. RAWK's Expert Sausage Monster! Oakley Cannonier is fucking boss. Likes blowing his friends and undoing their nuts? Who nose?!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,943
  • This looks like a nice spot...
    • Flat Back Four
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10797 on: August 20, 2022, 12:14:27 pm »
it's polemic ... in a manner of speaking

Straightforward, even...
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Offline Clint Eastwood

  • The man with no name
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,392
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10798 on: August 22, 2022, 10:02:48 pm »
He’s got this weird issue with blocking shots that’s been going on for about a year now, where he makes no attempt to close the angle and is far too casual. I can’t understand what he’s doing for the first goal.

Offline Ray K

  • Loves a shiny helmet. The new IndyKalia.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,829
  • Truthiness
Re: Virgil Van Great
« Reply #10799 on: August 22, 2022, 10:03:55 pm »
What the fuck has happened to him? Seriously, anyone got any ideas here?
"We have to change from doubters to believers"

Twitter: @rjkelly75