Poll

Tory Christmas Party

Nothing like a good old knees up!
They should apologise and come clean
Johnson should resign
The front bench should resign
The entire party should resign
The entire party should be put in an Elon Musk rocket and fired off to jupiter with 2 packets of hula hoops and a pot noodle
I LOVE cheese!

Author Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!  (Read 1164650 times)

Offline KillieRed

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5280 on: January 9, 2020, 03:43:50 pm »
If you cant vote then I assume you don’t pay into your unions political fund, maybe they only ask the ones that do pay into the political fund?

Possibly.
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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5281 on: January 9, 2020, 04:11:12 pm »
Good on you! Hopefully more people follow suit

I have, and have a similar view to I_C

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5282 on: January 9, 2020, 04:41:10 pm »
The new leader doesn't need to be a Northern, Red Wall, meat pie eating, ale-swilling loud mouth. Intelligence, competence and credible is a great starting point.

Also think we should stop acting as though there are grand, sophisticated and complex reasons why the "red wall" types didn't vote Labour when it's pretty obvious on the whole. The more difficult question is how to win them back without populist gestures and aping Tory/Brx parties.


The 'red wall' abandoned Labour because they believe the right-wing bullshit about the EU (and immigrants, lefties, benefits scroungers and lefties) being the cause of why their lives aren't great.

Under Corbyn, Labour totally absolved itself of its responsibility to explain just how 1) the EU wasn't the source of the problem for disaffected working class voters, and instead the problem is too great a proportion of the income from the productive output of the nation ends up in too few [tax-dodging] hands); and 2) leaving the EU would create way more negatives than positives.

This was very much due to antipathy towards the EU of Corbyn and his advisors. They failed to provide leadership, preferring to live in a hinterland of ambivalence.

The effect was that the myths about the EU that had been built-up by the anti-regulation right-wing (who were energised further by the prospect of ATAD/AMLD destroying the secrecy of the BOT/CD tax havens, and depriving 'The City' of Łhundreds of billions in 'skimming' and ancillary income) were allowed to grow and become entrenched.

To insinuate it's just down to some xenophobia/racism/nationalism within millions of people simplifies the reasons too far.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5283 on: January 9, 2020, 04:47:06 pm »
While it doesn't matter, Nandy is probably one of the two candidates from a more comfortable background - the granddaughter of a Liberal MP and Lord, and the daughter of an influential academic and equal opportunities/race relations campaigner (both of Thornberry's parents were academics; her father ended up working at the UN). Starmer is the son of a toolmaker and a nurse.


Class background is not a straightforward thing when it comes to leading the Labour party. I'm struggling to think of the last time the party was led by someone who had genuine experience of manual labour. Not Corbyn obviously. But not Miliband, Brown or Blair either. Not Smith or Kinnock or Foot, and not Jim Callaghan. Not Wilson or Gaitskell and certainly not Attlee. It's probably George Lansbury, who led the party between 1931 and 1935 and had worked as a navvy (one of his achievements being helping to flatten the pitch in Brisbane for the Ashes in the late 19th century).

Of the other ones mentioned above only Jim Callaghan and Corbyn didn't go to university. Callaghan because he was born into a working-class family which had lost its main bread-winner (his dad) and because he joined the navy during the war. Corbyn because, although privately educated and well-off, failed to get his A Levels. Of the rest, only Kinnock could be said to come from a working-class family (dad was a coal miner).

It's instructive to compare the present contest with the one in 1976, where Callaghan beat off the other contenders, to succeed Harold Wilson. Wilson had gone to Oxford university (as had the two previous leaders, Gaitskell and Attlee). In the race to succeed him, apart from Callaghan, there was Roy Jenkins (Oxford), Tony Benn (Oxford), Denis Healey (Oxford), Tony Crosland (Oxford) and Michael Foot (Oxford). Being 'working class', or even being from a 'working-class background' simply didn't matter when it came to leading the Labour party.

It's paradoxical that it does now.  Back in the 1970s the working class was a major part of the nation. The old staple manufacturing industries still accounted for a large part of the economy, even if they were in decline. Coal, iron and steel, shipbuilding, heavy engineering, car manufacturing etc - not to mention the docks and the railways. Labour drew nearly all of its support from blue-collar workers. Yet its leaders were usually privately educated Oxbridge graduates in the liberal professions.

Now, with the working class a shadow of itself and with more people going to university than ever before it has suddenly become the 'thing' to establish one's 'working-class credentials'. Even Keir Starmer is being forced to talk up 'dad the toolmaker'. Rebecca Long Bailey is inventing false memories of when her dad lost his job at Salford docks. Emily Thornberry, who goes everywhere heaving a white van around with her, is saying she was born on a council estate. Richard Burgon comes on TV with a face blackened with coal dust, asking whether he has time to "eat mi' snap".

OK, I made the last one up. But he would do if he thought he could away with it.
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Offline Ray K

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5284 on: January 9, 2020, 07:59:24 pm »
Barry Gardiner's leadership bid

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5285 on: January 9, 2020, 08:03:45 pm »


That's quite a sizable post just to cover the fact that you were wrong  ;)

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5286 on: January 9, 2020, 08:16:37 pm »
That's quite a sizable post just to cover the fact that you were wrong  ;)
Huh? Was he? Link?
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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5287 on: January 9, 2020, 08:32:41 pm »
That's quite a sizable post just to cover the fact that you were wrong  ;)

I probably was. I usually am.

But wrong about what?
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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5288 on: January 9, 2020, 08:36:28 pm »
I probably was. I usually am.

But wrong about what?

Well you didn’t mention that George Lansbury was also grandfather to Angela ‘Murder, She Wrote’ Lansbury ;)
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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5289 on: January 9, 2020, 08:44:48 pm »
Well you didn’t mention that George Lansbury was also grandfather to Angela ‘Murder, She Wrote’ Lansbury ;)

And the grandad of Oliver Postgate who devised the Clangers, Ivor the Engine and Bagpuss.

That's a lot of joy! 
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5290 on: January 9, 2020, 09:32:52 pm »
Well you didn’t mention that George Lansbury was also grandfather to Angela ‘Murder, She Wrote’ Lansbury ;)
Wow!  I didn’t know that... so cool
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5291 on: January 9, 2020, 09:54:29 pm »
Well you didn’t mention that George Lansbury was also grandfather to Angela ‘Murder, She Wrote’ Lansbury ;)
Wow!  I didn’t know that... so cool
But not as cool as this:
And the grandad of Oliver Postgate who devised the Clangers, Ivor the Engine and Bagpuss.

That's a lot of joy!
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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5292 on: January 9, 2020, 10:08:22 pm »
Wow!  I didn’t know that... so cool

I only know because my history teacher told us in school
EDIT:
<———- just for you, since your obviously a fan!
« Last Edit: January 9, 2020, 10:28:44 pm by west_london_red »
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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5293 on: January 9, 2020, 10:16:07 pm »
And the grandad of Oliver Postgate who devised the Clangers, Ivor the Engine and Bagpuss.

That's a lot of joy!

No one can saying anything wrong about The Clangers.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5294 on: January 9, 2020, 10:33:46 pm »
I only know because my history teacher told us in school
EDIT:
<———- just for you, since your obviously a fan!
:lmao
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5295 on: January 9, 2020, 10:34:06 pm »
No one can saying anything wrong about The Clangers.
Fucking stalinists
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline jDJ

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5296 on: January 9, 2020, 10:44:11 pm »
Bring back David Miliband. Absolute sh1tshow of candidates so far. Starmer the least w@nk and by some distance but still fairly w@nk.  Pitiful.

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5297 on: January 9, 2020, 11:06:58 pm »
Bring back David Miliband. Absolute sh1tshow of candidates so far. Starmer the least w@nk and by some distance but still fairly w@nk.  Pitiful.

Kind of agree, but at the same time can’t say I like the way he behaved after he lost in 2010. Just because he didn’t win, that didn’t mean he didn’t have a lot to offer the party and the cause but instead he threw his toys out of the pram and ran off to America.
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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5298 on: January 9, 2020, 11:33:36 pm »
Wow!  I didn’t know that... so cool


You didn't? It's a tale as old as time.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Banquo's Ghost

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5299 on: January 9, 2020, 11:41:16 pm »
No one can saying anything wrong about The Clangers.

True. If you want to criticise them you have to use a swanee whistle otherwise they won't understand.
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Offline Machae

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5300 on: January 10, 2020, 12:47:19 am »
I may have misheard but someone mentioned in passing that voting for Corbyn between the 18-30? age group was exceptionally high and that particular voting pattern would've returned 400+ seats over Johnsons Tories.

Sorry if this has been discussed but was there any truth to this and any links if so?

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5301 on: January 10, 2020, 12:50:58 am »
I may have misheard but someone mentioned in passing that voting for Corbyn between the 18-30? age group was exceptionally high and that particular voting pattern would've returned 400+ seats over Johnsons Tories.

Sorry if this has been discussed but was there any truth to this and any links if so?
pretty sure that has always been the case for labour, that weird bit about how anyone in that age group who voted labour always will and the old Tory voters will die off and the revolution will come but that’s just not the case

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5302 on: January 10, 2020, 08:54:40 am »
I probably was. I usually am.

But wrong about what?

Sorry, my mistake. I misread your post.

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Offline OOS

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5304 on: January 10, 2020, 11:01:04 am »
Barry Gardiner's leadership bid



Just odd.

RLB has had four years to prepare for this moment, and it hasn't got off to the best start.

I think the 'left', Unite and Momentum have been caught off guard with Laura Piddock losing her seat, if she was in parliament she would have been their choice.
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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5305 on: January 10, 2020, 11:18:57 am »
Just odd.

RLB has had four years to prepare for this moment, and it hasn't got off to the best start.

I think the 'left', Unite and Momentum have been caught off guard with Laura Piddock losing her seat, if she was in parliament she would have been their choice.

Yes I do get the impression Pidcock was the chosen one for a fair few on the left

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5306 on: January 10, 2020, 12:29:09 pm »
The Left of the party don't seem to have a single person who is good at policy. You might say this doesn't matter and that 'appearance' and 'manner' are more important in a potential PM. Johnson certainly seems to support this.

But what is good in a potential Tory PM isn't necessarily the right thing for a potential Labour PM - and part of manner and appearance, after all, is competence over things like commanding a brief and sounding intelligent about policy. This is where Blair was excellent (as Geoff will happily testify). Radical policies, especially, need to be presented with conviction.

But whereas the mainstream of the PLP has people who are skilled at policy making such as Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper (remember, it was Cooper who led the charge against the last Tory budget, from the backbenches), the Left is only good at bluster and grandstanding and, of course, "principle".

So the question, this time, is whether enough individual members will be embarrassed by RLB and her faint grasp of policy or whether, instead, they will warm to her chatter about "resistance" and "taking the fight to the Tories in the streets and the communities" etc .
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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5307 on: January 10, 2020, 12:34:29 pm »
Fucking stalinists

You wouldn't dare say that to Major Clanger's face.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5309 on: January 10, 2020, 01:07:14 pm »
Bet Jess likes the Clangers.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jess-phillips-labour-leadership-a4331286.html
Brilliant. She hit all the right notes, and with loads of humour too. I also agreed with her comment about Neil Kinnock - I always had a great deal of respect for him.

Although my head tells me that she really could do with some Shadow cabinet experience first, I am in little doubt that she would do far better job than any of the others (except, maybe, Starmer). I'd be happy with either one of them.
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Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5310 on: January 10, 2020, 04:59:29 pm »
Bet Jess likes the Clangers.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jess-phillips-labour-leadership-a4331286.html

That's an interview with a human being you could relate to and happily have an argument with without them taking the hump.

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5311 on: January 10, 2020, 05:40:40 pm »
This is an election too soon for Philips, however, she should be given a shadow cabinet role to see how she deals with extra responsibility.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5312 on: January 10, 2020, 06:42:58 pm »
This is an election too soon for Philips, however, she should be given a shadow cabinet role to see how she deals with extra responsibility.
Yeah I think you’re right...

She was very good bashing the SNP the other day though.  You never hear labour people take the fight to them ...made a change
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5313 on: January 10, 2020, 07:44:24 pm »
Yeah I think you’re right...

She was very good bashing the SNP the other day though.  You never hear labour people take the fight to them ...made a change

Jeez, if you thought that was good then you really don't get Scottish politics.

Clive Lewis on the other hand is saying some interesting things which I think is the right strategy for winning back Scotland for Labour.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 07:48:27 pm by Just Elmo? »

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5314 on: January 10, 2020, 08:01:53 pm »
Jeez, if you thought that was good then you really don't get Scottish politics.

Clive Lewis on the other hand is saying some interesting things which I think is the right strategy for winning back Scotland for Labour.
I disagree with you.

It was good that someone from labour actually took on the SNP.  They have to, it’s about time.

She was also 100% correct with her criticisms
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5315 on: January 10, 2020, 08:03:00 pm »
I disagree with you.

It was good that someone from labour actually took on the SNP.  They have to, it’s about time.



Why?

They're more Labour than Labour
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5316 on: January 10, 2020, 08:06:30 pm »
Why?

They're more Labour than Labour
Why?

Because the Labour Party need to win seats off them.

It’s very simple, surely?
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“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5317 on: January 10, 2020, 08:13:37 pm »
I disagree with you.

It was good that someone from labour actually took on the SNP.  They have to, it’s about time.

She was also 100% correct with her criticisms

Which ones?

“I cannot understand that you’re pro-European but you’re not pro-UK. You think it is important to be part of that but not part of the UK."

This is moronic. It's like saying I don't understand how you can support Liverpool and not support Everton. They are completely different unions that serve different purposes and work in completely different ways. The UK is an unnecesssary middleman that refuses to move into the 20th century never mind the 21st.

It's also completely bullshit because now, it is an either/or, we can't have both.

"I think that the SNP should be held to account on their terrible track record with public services in Scotland"

While the SNPs record is obviously not perfect, they are seen to be competent generally, and public services are for the most part outperforming the rest of the UK, including Labour governed Wales. It may play well in England but that isn't going to win over SNP voters....

When asked if come 2021, if there was a clear mandate for Scottish independence whether or not she would consider a Section 30 order, the Labour leader hopeful said: “There is enough SNP MPs after this general election for them to be talking about independence but we should be talking about things that are relevant to people’s lives in Scotland.

“I cannot see a circumstance where I would think that it would be better for Scotland to leave the United Kingdom. I cannot see where that would ever be the case.”


This is just anti-democratic and goes against the Labour supported principle of self-determination, and ignores the fact teh SNP already have a mandate for another referendum. She's actually swimming against the tide here as we are finally seeing signs within Labour that they are finally recognising the reality and considering backing another referendum.

“It is going to be an enormous task, I think some of the reasons that we lost in Scotland and have been losing in Scotland for some time, is because we have since the referendum up there, not had a clear position on the two constitutional questions of the day.”

They have had a clear position on independence, and a referendum for years, bar a couple of comments from McDonnell and Corbyn. It hasn't worked.

She is not making any new arguments, she is trotting out the same worn out arguments they have been making for years which has left them all but wiped out in Scotland.

As I said, Clive Lewis seems to have the right idea, arguing for PR and federalism, though I suspect that 1) it is too little too late in that regard and 2) he has little chance of winning
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 08:19:16 pm by Just Elmo? »

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5318 on: January 10, 2020, 10:19:27 pm »
Which ones?

“I cannot understand that you’re pro-European but you’re not pro-UK. You think it is important to be part of that but not part of the UK."

This is moronic. It's like saying I don't understand how you can support Liverpool and not support Everton. They are completely different unions that serve different purposes and work in completely different ways. The UK is an unnecesssary middleman that refuses to move into the 20th century never mind the 21st.

It's also completely bullshit because now, it is an either/or, we can't have both.

"I think that the SNP should be held to account on their terrible track record with public services in Scotland"

While the SNPs record is obviously not perfect, they are seen to be competent generally, and public services are for the most part outperforming the rest of the UK, including Labour governed Wales. It may play well in England but that isn't going to win over SNP voters....

When asked if come 2021, if there was a clear mandate for Scottish independence whether or not she would consider a Section 30 order, the Labour leader hopeful said: “There is enough SNP MPs after this general election for them to be talking about independence but we should be talking about things that are relevant to people’s lives in Scotland.

“I cannot see a circumstance where I would think that it would be better for Scotland to leave the United Kingdom. I cannot see where that would ever be the case.”


This is just anti-democratic and goes against the Labour supported principle of self-determination, and ignores the fact teh SNP already have a mandate for another referendum. She's actually swimming against the tide here as we are finally seeing signs within Labour that they are finally recognising the reality and considering backing another referendum.

“It is going to be an enormous task, I think some of the reasons that we lost in Scotland and have been losing in Scotland for some time, is because we have since the referendum up there, not had a clear position on the two constitutional questions of the day.”

They have had a clear position on independence, and a referendum for years, bar a couple of comments from McDonnell and Corbyn. It hasn't worked.

She is not making any new arguments, she is trotting out the same worn out arguments they have been making for years which has left them all but wiped out in Scotland.

As I said, Clive Lewis seems to have the right idea, arguing for PR and federalism, though I suspect that 1) it is too little too late in that regard and 2) he has little chance of winning
Now you don’t have to agree with  her....

But if she’s to be a successful labour leader, she needs to fight labour’s corner in Scotland.

She has to challenge the SNP head on.  Labour just haven’t done that in the last decade (you may not want that, I understand that, but for those of us that want a labour government it’s important to try to win some seats back in Scotland.)

She struck with a couple of things...
Quote
I care as much about kids in Glasgow as I do my own kids in Birmingham. We should be talking about things that actually matter to them: the SNP's education crisis & rising waiting times.

Firstly the idea of labour giving a stuff about people in Scotland. Labour had pretty much given the impression that they’d given up caring.  I don’t think Phillips will win (or perhaps even should win right now) but I think that’s an important message.

Secondly tackling the SNPs record head on.  Again, you may not agree, but as labour leader this needs to be the fight that is taken to the SNP. And for the record, the Scottish Curriculum for excellence is doing the exact opposite of what any serious educational research says works... so she’s got a point...

Clive Lewis is irrelevant because he’s not even going to get the votes of his own dinner party guests..
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

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Re: Politics thread III - Remember us fighting each other makes Jeremy Cry :(
« Reply #5319 on: January 10, 2020, 10:42:43 pm »
Now you don’t have to agree with  her....

But if she’s to be a successful labour leader, she needs to fight labour’s corner in Scotland.

She has to challenge the SNP head on.  Labour just haven’t done that in the last decade (you may not want that, I understand that, but for those of us that want a labour government it’s important to try to win some seats back in Scotland.)

She struck with a couple of things...
Firstly the idea of labour giving a stuff about people in Scotland. Labour had pretty much given the impression that they’d given up caring.  I don’t think Phillips will win (or perhaps even should win right now) but I think that’s an important message.

Secondly tackling the SNPs record head on.  Again, you may not agree, but as labour leader this needs to be the fight that is taken to the SNP. And for the record, the Scottish Curriculum for excellence is doing the exact opposite of what any serious educational research says works... so she’s got a point...

Clive Lewis is irrelevant because he’s not even going to get the votes of his own dinner party guests..

She needs to tackle SNP head on with ideas. Criticising them without providing an alternative is what they have been doing for years. The only thing she has proposed is 'being different' and being clear on constitutional policy.

She didn't say anything about education, she just said 'terrible record on public services'.

She also came across terribly, she was hesitant and sounded like she didn't know what to say.

I'm generally a fan of Phillips but that was a terrible interview.

Jess Philips is pretty irrelevant as well going by that criteria, she isn't going to win.