Author Topic: It's not about Lineker  (Read 7045 times)

Offline A Red Abroad

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,468
  • We had dreams and songs to sing
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2023, 11:20:16 am »
I think like a lot of supporters of middling teams, the population has succumbed to the belief that this is just as good as it gets. To stretch the analogy a bit further, Brexit for a number of people was like winning the FA Cup after being relegated.

Fair point.
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.

Offline A Red Abroad

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,468
  • We had dreams and songs to sing
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2023, 11:21:54 am »
I don’t want to get into this on here...

PS: You just did. If you're gonna post such rhetoric - you WILL get replies.

(Equally, I expect people to challenge my viewpoint too).
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 11:34:19 am by A Red Abroad »
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.

Offline Gili Gulu

  • Looking forward to seeing the Golden Sky
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,493
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2023, 11:22:33 am »
True, but the real one squirming must be Cruella. Gary’s tweet today about us remaining “a country of predominantly tolerant, welcoming and generous people” makes her look an even bigger twat. It’s the word “predominantly” :)

It's amazing that a complete non-entity like Braverman has one of the four "Great Offices of State"  (though that probably needs revising down to three after the Home Office got seriously down-sized). She's latched herself onto this immigration issue like a pitbull in the hope that it will raise her profile in the Conservative Party, and become a leadership contender.

But idiots are what Boris needed to surround himself with to make him look in anyway competent, anyone with any political heft would be telling him he's chatting bollocks on the rare occasions he turned his mind to the actual job of running the country. That's why the head of the civil service in the Treasury had to go too, and why Boris couldn't have anyone in the Chancellor's job for more than five minutes.

And the person running the BBC was unable to compete with these people for a seat in Parliament.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 11:25:09 am by Gili Gulu »
Gili Gulu. (嘰哩咕嚕) means saying something no-one understands but yourself; a little rambling or a silly language between friends

Offline Elliemental

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
  • You Love Us
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2023, 11:23:13 am »
Excellent. The BBC have ended the farce, I hope. But I also want to take a moment to mention how utterly heroic John Barnes has been throughout this. His interviews were brilliant. Just brilliant.

Offline Lusty

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,307
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2023, 11:24:58 am »

Offline Bergersrightwingviews

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,155
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2023, 11:25:57 am »
Then they should be processed as such - and returned if necessary.

Regardless, that is no excuse to make 'criminals' out of genuine refugees and refuse them refuge.

The 'Albanian' argument is pure whataboutery - and it reads like you're falling for it.

Meanwhile, while you're watching the pretty smoke and mirrors, big issues, like NHS pay, high mortgage rates, a cost of living crisis, massive profiteering by energy companies, etc, etc aren't being discussed/challenged.

Seriously, you think a few 'Albanian' blokes arriving in the UK are the cause of its problems? Really?

(No wonder it's so easy to divide and conquer the UK's citizens - I despair).

A few? Laughable. You also clearly have no ducking idea whataboutery means.

Enjoy your echo chamber.
Roger Scruton was right about everything.

Offline A Red Abroad

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,468
  • We had dreams and songs to sing
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2023, 11:31:37 am »
A few? Laughable. You also clearly have no ducking idea whataboutery means.

Enjoy your echo chamber.

Why not just admit that you don't like 'forruns'?

Enjoy drinking the Tory Kool-Aid.
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.

Offline Jshooters

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,776
  • Occasionally inspirational
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2023, 11:32:00 am »
A few? Laughable. You also clearly have no ducking idea whataboutery means.

Enjoy your echo chamber.

75% of asylum applications were granted upon intitial decision.  This number is likely to rise when you take into account appeals.

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/information/refugee-asylum-facts/top-10-facts-about-refugees-and-people-seeking-asylum/#:~:text=4.,result%20of%20an%20asylum%20claim.
Believer

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,563
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2023, 11:32:04 am »
A few? Laughable. You also clearly have no ducking idea whataboutery means.

Enjoy your echo chamber.

Maybe if you could go into some details about your experiences it would help us all to understand the situation better?  I know nothing of this "Albanian situation" - who are these people, how are they getting in, and what is their motive in arriving?  And how is this impacting the country, especially where you live?

It sounds like you have some first hand experience of the situation, and it is clearly not for this thread; but it seems an honest and frank discussion of immigration - illegal or otherwise - needs to be had?

We can't be going around throwing labels on people simply because we disagree with their views, and it's equally important we try to avoid echo-chamber syndrome also.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline Bergersrightwingviews

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,155
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2023, 11:39:27 am »
Maybe if you could go into some details about your experiences it would help us all to understand the situation better?  I know nothing of this "Albanian situation" - who are these people, how are they getting in, and what is their motive in arriving?  And how is this impacting the country, especially where you live?

It sounds like you have some first hand experience of the situation, and it is clearly not for this thread; but it seems an honest and frank discussion of immigration - illegal or otherwise - needs to be had?

We can't be going around throwing labels on people simply because we disagree with their views, and it's equally important we try to avoid echo-chamber syndrome also.

You may wish to start here. https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-63473022.amp

Over 12,000 in 2022. Hardly a few by any reasonable definition.

Albania is a safe and stable country. Human trafficking and “blood feuds” should be a matter for the Albanian police and not are not the responsibility of the U.K. taxpayer. 10% of the U.K. foreign prison population is Albanian. Astounding given the size of Albania. See here https://www.nenetereza.co.uk/refugee-support.php

The legal framework for refugees was written when the world was a very different place. It’s no longer fit for purpose.
Roger Scruton was right about everything.

Online Schmidt

  • 's small stretchy scrotum
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,480
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2023, 11:39:49 am »
"BBC director general Tim Davie announced an independent review will be carried out on social media guidelines."

This bit seems worrying, presumably the new iteration will do a better job of silencing criticism of the government.

Offline Bergersrightwingviews

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,155
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2023, 11:41:14 am »
Why not just admit that you don't like 'forruns'?

Enjoy drinking the Tory Kool-Aid.

The wife will be surprised to hear this.

You’re an absolute disgrace throwing around accusations like that. You know sod all about me and appear to have a teenager’s understanding of world affairs. I know it feels good to work yourself into a moral outrage but it’s no substitute for thinking.
Roger Scruton was right about everything.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

  • Batshit fucker and Chief Yuletide Porcine Voyeur
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,043
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2023, 11:45:39 am »
One thing from John Barnes* with which I disagreed - and apparently shown to be incorrect if the reports are true - there will be no 'compromise' between Lineker and the BBC. The BBC have, apparently, totally climbed down - Lineker has not had to shift ground one jot, nor should he have done. He was totally in the right and he and his viewpoint has been totally vindicated.

* Having said that, I agree - John Barnes has been great! And it would be fantastic to see more of him.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 11:47:25 am by Jiminy Cricket »
would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Offline A Red Abroad

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,468
  • We had dreams and songs to sing
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2023, 11:46:00 am »
You may wish to start here. https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-63473022.amp

Over 12,000 in 2022. Hardly a few by any reasonable definition.

Albania is a safe and stable country. Human trafficking and “blood feuds” should be a matter for the Albanian police and not are not the responsibility of the U.K. taxpayer. 10% of the U.K. foreign prison population is Albanian. Astounding given the size of Albania. See here https://www.nenetereza.co.uk/refugee-support.php

The legal framework for refugees was written when the world was a very different place. It’s no longer fit for purpose.

But the new bill wants to make 'criminals' out of ALL refugees arriving - no trial/hearing - just refused entry, incarcerated and then sent off to wherever HM Gov chooses.

Can you really not see that?

Surely it is better to process applications quickly and weed out any undesirables, while offering refuge to those who genuinely deserve it.

This 'sledgehammer to crack a nut' approach is bonkers.
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.

Offline A Red Abroad

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,468
  • We had dreams and songs to sing
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2023, 11:47:41 am »
The wife will be surprised to hear this.

You’re an absolute disgrace throwing around accusations like that. You know sod all about me and appear to have a teenager’s understanding of world affairs. I know it feels good to work yourself into a moral outrage but it’s no substitute for thinking.

I can only base any opinion on what you've written.

You appear to have your own 'moral outrage' about Albanians.

[EDIT] PS: You know similar sh!te was said about Irish and Black immigrants in previous generations?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 11:52:58 am by A Red Abroad »
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.

Offline classycarra

  • The Left Disonourable Chuntering Member For Scousepool.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,507
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2023, 11:49:12 am »
75% of asylum applications were granted upon intitial decision.  This number is likely to rise when you take into account appeals.

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/information/refugee-asylum-facts/top-10-facts-about-refugees-and-people-seeking-asylum/#:~:text=4.,result%20of%20an%20asylum%20claim.
75% is just a proportion though. that's referring to 14,000 people in all of 2022 apparently.

Online redgriffin73

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,571
  • Thanks for everything Rafa. Nunca Caminarás Solo.
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #56 on: March 13, 2023, 11:55:13 am »
@Nick_Pettigrew
Those BBC negotiations in full:
“Delete the tweets”
“No”
“Okay, well, apologise for them”
“No”
“We’ll get somebody else in to do your job if you don’t”
*Everyone downs tools*
“Will you at least promise not to tweet political stuff in the future?”
“No”
“Okay, we have a deal”

Pretty much :lmao
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,445
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: It's not about Lineker
« Reply #57 on: March 13, 2023, 11:55:20 am »
This isn't Goodwins law this is about learning the lessons from history and how Language has led countries down a very dark path, Nazi Germany isn't the only example of this happening, there are many examples of it happening in countries just in my lifetime, they don't all end in Genocide and nobody's suggesting it will happen in the UK but our Goverment has used the same Language that brought about so much anger and violence in Nazi Germany so the comparison to 1930s Germany is justified.
Ive posted the video below a few times over the last few yrs, Stephen Fry explaining how Language played a big part in warping ordinary peoples minds into supporting horrific policys with a clear conscience , this is another important point, we have to change the way we look at this, not everyone who believes the Torys racist propaganda is a angry racist.
Stephen Fry - The power of words in Nazi Germany
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohrtFuxUzZE

Totally agree with Phils point of this not being all about Lineker, it's also not just about the BBC and impartiality, it's also about making people aware of how our government have used the tactics and Language that led to the rise of the Nazi party. I would take it further, this didn't just start recently with the boat crossing, it started way back in 2016 and the effect has been devesting.

I don't believe our government are happy over the attention Linekers points are getting, it maybe deflecting attention away from the economy etc but it's turning that attention towards the points we are now discussing. it must be making the government feel very uncomfortable, people are now thinking about questions that have never crossed their minds before.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 12:27:04 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline A Red Abroad

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,468
  • We had dreams and songs to sing
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2023, 11:57:57 am »
75% is just a proportion though. that's referring to 14,000 people in all of 2022 apparently.

Yes, but under the new bill, 0% of (small boat) cases will be approved. Regardless of whether they are legitimate or not.
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.

Offline Slippers

  • atennerandwesaynomoreyeah?
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,259
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2023, 11:59:05 am »

Offline Bergersrightwingviews

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,155
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #60 on: March 13, 2023, 12:00:23 pm »
But the new bill wants to make 'criminals' out of ALL refugees arriving - no trial/hearing - just refused entry, incarcerated and then sent off to wherever HM Gov chooses.

Can you really not see that?

Surely it is better to process applications quickly and weed out any undesirables, while offering refuge to those who genuinely deserve it.

This 'sledgehammer to crack a nut' approach is bonkers.

The system is irreparably broken and needs complete reform. You have presented a very disingenuous account of the proposals of course. There is no right to seek asylum in a country of your choosing.

The U.K. should accept refugees. In my view this should be a relatively modest number and there should be an expectation that they leave when their home countries are safe. This is largely what happened after both world wars. We have already seen Ukrainians return home.

Albanians are simply the most egregious illustration of what is wrong with the present system. They are not the only example of widespread abuse of the system.

I could equally ask why you are so determined to hinder efforts to stop the boats. Do you LIKE people drowning in the Channel? Do you see now how two can play at the bad-faith disingenuous game? Do you understand now that this is not a good versus evil situation?

As for what should happen, in my view there should be a list of countries from which no asylum claims will be considered. There should be an Australian-style offshore processing centre for those entering illegally.

On the other side, there should be clear routes for people from what should be a very small list of countries to apply for asylum from outside the country such as we have seen for Ukraine. It would make sense for this to be processed by the nearest British embassy in a safe country.

There should be no right or expectation to being re-settled in Britain. Asylum is for protection from a clear and present danger. It is not a right to remain in a particular country forever. If Britain thinks it makes sense to re-settle some successful asylum seekers in a third country it should be free to do so.

All of this would require legal reform. The ECHR case law is complete bananas and has gone far beyond what was intended when it was written.

There is an inexhaustible supply of people who would like to come to the West. The answer is not to keep bringing people here as we simply do not have the resources and it’s a drop in the ocean in global terms.

You don’t fix the problems of Somalia by bringing tens of thousands of them here. You fix them in Somalia.
Roger Scruton was right about everything.

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,483
  • The first five yards........
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2023, 12:01:24 pm »
I don’t want to get into this on here but if you think it’s that simple then I have some seafront property to sell you. Albanians arriving from France for example are not refugees.

Thanks. Noted.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

  • Batshit fucker and Chief Yuletide Porcine Voyeur
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,043
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2023, 12:04:01 pm »
You may wish to start here. https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-63473022.amp

Over 12,000 in 2022. Hardly a few by any reasonable definition.

Albania is a safe and stable country. Human trafficking and “blood feuds” should be a matter for the Albanian police and not are not the responsibility of the U.K. taxpayer. 10% of the U.K. foreign prison population is Albanian. Astounding given the size of Albania. See here https://www.nenetereza.co.uk/refugee-support.php

The legal framework for refugees was written when the world was a very different place. It’s no longer fit for purpose.
Well, that's OK then. Just so long as it is nothing life-threatening or serious.

Them there trafficked Albanian children coming over here, stealing our jobs...
Quote
From the same webpage you linked:

Albanians are amongst the largest groups of irregular immigrants in the UK, and Albanian children are the second largest group receiving help from Barnardo’s child trafficking support teams. In 2010, Albanians were not seen as a significantly at-risk group, but in 2015 Barnardo’s estimated that Albanians accounted for a quarter of children allocated an advocate under its child trafficking support scheme. Some are forced to work, particularly on building sites, but the majority are exploited for criminal activities.

[...]

The report says Albanians make up just 0.8% of organized criminals in the UK, behind British nationals (61.6%); unknown nationalities (23.5%); Romanians (1.5%); Pakistanis (1.2%) and Polish (0.9%). But it warns that the impact of Albanian criminals was particularly troubling because of their readiness to use serious violence.
Speaking to the BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, Matthew Horne, the deputy director-general of the NCA, said: “While the numbers involved are relatively small, the impact of these groups is significant. “We are seeing significant control being exerted particularly by organised crime from Albania in so far as cocaine, in particular, is concerned …

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/29/albanian-gangs-control-uk-cocaine-market-says-agency

This month the Observer reported that Albanians are one of the largest groups of illegal immigrants in the UK. It also reported that the number of Albanian children being helped by Barnardo’s specialist trafficking support teams was second only to those from Vietnam. The Observer reported: “Officially, the UK is home to about 20,000 Albanians.

“The UK is the ultimate destination for younger Albanians, who come from a country where 70% of the population is Muslim and the medieval code of kanuni holds sway in rural areas. This decrees that spilled blood must be paid for with spilled blood, a stipulation that, down the years, has resulted in hundreds of tit-for-tat murders.

The blood feuds are recognised by the European commission, as one of the most common ‘push factors’ driving asylum flows from Albania, along with ‘deprivation, unemployment, discrimination and poor access to healthcare, social benefits and education’.
Here's a thought: why not judge the validity of individual Albanian refugee seeker claims instead of attempting to tar them all with the same brush. Of course there are some serious problems in Albania, and some of the violence from there is spilling over into the UK. So what!?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 12:05:32 pm by Jiminy Cricket »
would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

  • Batshit fucker and Chief Yuletide Porcine Voyeur
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,043
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2023, 12:08:31 pm »
I can only base any opinion on what you've written.

You appear to have your own 'moral outrage' about Albanians.

[EDIT] PS: You know similar sh!te was said about Irish and Black immigrants in previous generations?
My Dad was one of them (Irish). He told me about the 'No Irish, No Blacks, no dogs' posters in digs' windows.
would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Offline telekon

  • Keep Calm And Carry On Coughing......Urgently needs to know the German word for "woosh", cos clearly "ironie" escapes him :)
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,755
  • I'm in love with here and I feel fine
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2023, 12:09:35 pm »
I don’t want to get into this on here but

Enters into long tirade on a specific ethnic group.
What has the universe got to do with it? You're here in Brooklyn! Brooklyn is not expanding!

Offline vladis voice

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2023, 12:11:36 pm »
Agree probably needs its own thread but extract below is from House of Commons own asylum statistics - The current hyperbole around this is a direct consequence of Govt failure to process applications and, as a consequence, the Home Office dumping people without status and unable to legally contribute to the economy into hotels with zero engagement with local authorities and local third sector groups who are left to put services in place to support them. I don't see any evidence of a huge Albanian influx in these numbers and I also notice that UK rate of people seeking asylum is lower than EU average of European countries.


In the year ending June 2022, the latest period for which we have estimates, asylum seekers and refugees made up approximately 18% of immigrants to the UK. This includes arrivals under the Ukraine schemes, the Afghan relocation and resettlement schemes, arrivals in small boats, other resettled persons and arrivals on family reunion visas (around 190,000 individuals in total). If including the British National (Overseas) scheme in the category of humanitarian routes, up to 25% of immigration in that year would fall into that category.

Decisions and refusals.

The percentage of asylum applicants refused at initial decision reached its highest point at 88% in 2004. Since then, the refusal rate has been falling overall and was at 24% in 2022, its lowest point since 1990.

Between 2004 to 2021, around three-quarters of applicants refused asylum at initial decision lodged an appeal and almost one third of those appeals were allowed.

Asylum caseload

As of June 2022, the total ‘work in progress’ asylum caseload consisted of 166,100 cases. Of these, 101,400 cases were awaiting an initial decision, 4,900 were awaiting the outcome of an appeal, and approximately 38,900 cases were subject to removal action.
The total asylum caseload has more than doubled in size since 2014, driven both by applicants waiting longer for an initial decision and a growth in the number of people subject to removal action following a negative decision.

Nationality of asylum seekers and refugees

In 2021, 42% of applicants were nationals of Middle Eastern countries, and 23% were nationals of African countries. This pattern shifted in 2022 with the largest nationality groups being Asian countries (31% of applicants) and European countries (24% of applicants).
Between 2014 and 2022, 54,000 people were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes. Between 2014 and 2020, 20,000 Syrians were resettled under the Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme. In 2021 and 2022, nearly 21,400 people from Afghanistan were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes.

In 2022, two new routes were introduced for Ukrainians. As of December 2022, around 154,500 people had arrived under these schemes. This flow was much larger in scale than any other single forced migration flow to the UK in recent history. The number of Ukrainian refugees who arrived in the UK in 2022 was equivalent to the number of people granted refuge in the UK from all origins, in total, between 2014 and 2021.

European context

In 2021, there were around 9 asylum applications for every 10,000 people living in the UK. Across the EU27 there were 14 asylum applications for every 10,000 people. The UK was therefore below the average among EU countries for asylum applications per head of population, ranking 16th among EU27 countries plus the UK on this measure.

Offline So… Howard Philips

  • Penile Toupé Extender. Notoriously work-shy, copper-bottomed pervert.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,146
  • All I want for Christmas is a half and half scarf
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #66 on: March 13, 2023, 12:19:46 pm »
He has also hit upon the winning formula.

If you want to be a patriot and proud of your own country then be proud of Britain's long record in providing asylum for refugees and political exiles. From the Huguenots, onwards.

This government is shitting all over that tradition.

Wonder if Frottage is a Huguenot name?

Offline reddebs

  • areddwarfis4lifenotjust4xmas
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,104
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #67 on: March 13, 2023, 12:20:50 pm »
^^^

This is what annoys me with how the Tory's have been portraying these "issues".

They haven't put the resources in place post brexit to deal with the caseloads and the backlog is now so bad that they've deflected their incompetence onto the small boats. 

Of course too many believe their lies and the shite they spew and never bother to check for actual facts.

Offline MrGrumpy

  • Miserable old man. Does things with Nutella while trying not to think about football.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,999
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2023, 12:21:09 pm »
True, but the real one squirming must be Cruella. Gary’s tweet today about us remaining “a country of predominantly tolerant, welcoming and generous people” makes her look an even bigger twat. It’s the word “predominantly” :)

I have no doubt that the vile harpie will claim she is the victim in this.
Justice for the 96!

Offline A Red Abroad

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,468
  • We had dreams and songs to sing
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2023, 12:22:48 pm »
Replies/thoughts in bold...

The system is irreparably broken and needs complete reform. You have presented a very disingenuous account of the proposals of course. There is no right to seek asylum in a country of your choosing.

Actually, there is.

"There is no legal requirement for a refugee to claim asylum in any particular country. Neither the 1951 Refugee Convention nor EU law requires a refugee to claim asylum in one country rather than another. There is no rule requiring refugees to claim in the first safe country in which they arrive."

The idea that they have to/should claim asylum in the 'first safe county' is a myth.

Source: https://www.amnesty.org.uk/truth-about-refugees




The U.K. should accept refugees. In my view this should be a relatively modest number and there should be an expectation that they leave when their home countries are safe. This is largely what happened after both world wars. We have already seen Ukrainians return home.

No argument here - if it's safe to return to their homeland. But equally, if they've set up a life here, they shouldn't be forced to leave either, in my opinion.


Albanians are simply the most egregious illustration of what is wrong with the present system. They are not the only example of widespread abuse of the system.

Sorry, still reads like a bit of a 'fixation'. Sorry, but it does.


I could equally ask why you are so determined to hinder efforts to stop the boats. Do you LIKE people drowning in the Channel? Do you see now how two can play at the bad-faith disingenuous game? Do you understand now that this is not a good versus evil situation?

Fair enough. Apologies if I was being disingenuous.

Of course I don't want to see people risk their lives. But with no 'safe routes' available, it's not gonna stop is it? This current government has done its best to deter refugees at every opportunity - their own policies have caused this.



As for what should happen, in my view there should be a list of countries from which no asylum claims will be considered. There should be an Australian-style offshore processing centre for those entering illegally.

There should be a consensus (with other European nations) to accept refugees based on a percentage of population of each nation - with processing centres on mainland Europe directing refugees once processed. This would require co-operation of course. In the meantime countries like Sweden and Germany are taking way, way more refugees than the UK. The UK isn't even in the top 15. This idea that it's 'over-run' is a myth.


On the other side, there should be clear routes for people from what should be a very small list of countries to apply for asylum from outside the country such as we have seen for Ukraine. It would make sense for this to be processed by the nearest British embassy in a safe country.

This would work too. It would require extra staffing, etc.


There should be no right or expectation to being re-settled in Britain. Asylum is for protection from a clear and present danger. It is not a right to remain in a particular country forever. If Britain thinks it makes sense to re-settle some successful asylum seekers in a third country it should be free to do so.

What if a refugee already has family in the UK?


All of this would require legal reform. The ECHR case law is complete bananas and has gone far beyond what was intended when it was written.

There is an inexhaustible supply of people who would like to come to the West. The answer is not to keep bringing people here as we simply do not have the resources and it’s a drop in the ocean in global terms.

Again, the UK isn't over-run. It's a myth. Sorry, but it is.


You don’t fix the problems of Somalia by bringing tens of thousands of them here. You fix them in Somalia.

We can definitely agree on this.

Peace. :)
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.

Offline Bergersrightwingviews

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,155
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2023, 12:23:34 pm »
Well, that's OK then. Just so long as it is nothing life-threatening or serious.

Them there trafficked Albanian children coming over here, stealing our jobs...Here's a thought: why not judge the validity of individual Albanian refugee seeker claims instead of attempting to tar them all with the same brush. Of course there are some serious problems in Albania, and some of the violence from there is spilling over into the UK. So what!?

There are two points here in my opinion.

1) the over-extension of the existing system.
2) the flaws with the existing system.

My view as a lawyer (albeit not one specialising in immigration) is that the law is being applied incorrectly and that the case law has inappropriately departed from the intentions of the legislation.

My view as a member of the public is that the existing framework is out of date (written before the internet and advent of mass air travel for example). I would like it reformed as set out above.

Can you explain why you think the problems of Albanian blood feuds and the trafficking of Albanian children are better dealt with by the U.K. Home Office than the Albanian police? Do you have such a low opinion of Albania. If a Frenchman turned up and said he was being threatened by a French gangster should he have the right to claim asylum here? If not, why not?

I make no comment about Albanians as an ethnic group. I merely say that I do not see any reasonable basis for any Albanian to require asylum here. It makes perfect sense why Syrians and Ukrainians for example may require asylum.
Roger Scruton was right about everything.

Offline Robinred

  • Wanted for burglary.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,746
  • Red since '64
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2023, 12:25:26 pm »
He has also hit upon the winning formula.

If you want to be a patriot and proud of your own country then be proud of Britain's long record in providing asylum for refugees and political exiles. From the Huguenots, onwards.

This government is shitting all over that tradition.

Well said.

This is John Kampfner in today’s Guardian, and is well worth reading:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/13/bbc-cowardice-gary-lineker-rebellion?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
"The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology...as long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth." Mikhail Bakunin

Offline A Red Abroad

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,468
  • We had dreams and songs to sing
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2023, 12:26:56 pm »
My Dad was one of them (Irish). He told me about the 'No Irish, No Blacks, no dogs' posters in digs' windows.

My grandad was. Left Kerry for Liverpool because he was literally starving.

Ended up fighting (for King and Country) in Burma in WWII. Thankfully he returned. :)
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,483
  • The first five yards........
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2023, 12:29:44 pm »
Wonder if Frottage is a Huguenot name?

Yes, that's occurred to me too. More likely he came over with the Conqueror and stole someone's land.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Online Ghost Town

  • RAWK snitch. Bands won't play no more. Too much fighting on the dance floor! Probably one of only three people who knows the meaning of "depuratory", the Suzy Dent-esque freakshow! Hannoying homunculus.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,899
  • mundus vult decipi
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #74 on: March 13, 2023, 12:35:32 pm »
Anyway it's good to see Harry "It was an Albanian, guv, honest!" Maguire in the thread    ;)
"Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it."
Samuel (not Glen) Johnson, as reported by James (not Joey) Boswell. They must have foreseen RAWK ;D

Offline A Red Abroad

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,468
  • We had dreams and songs to sing
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2023, 12:36:09 pm »
Anyway it's good to see Harry "It was an Albanian, guv, honest!" Maguire in the thread    ;)

 ;D
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.

Offline A Red Abroad

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,468
  • We had dreams and songs to sing
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2023, 12:38:18 pm »
"BBC director general Tim Davie announced an independent review will be carried out on social media guidelines."

This bit seems worrying, presumably the new iteration will do a better job of silencing criticism of the government.

Let's see if it shuts down the likes of Sugar, etc.
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,483
  • The first five yards........
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2023, 12:38:34 pm »
Well said.

This is John Kampfner in today’s Guardian, and is well worth reading:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/13/bbc-cowardice-gary-lineker-rebellion?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

It is worth reading.

The last point is the most depressing. We often talk about 'soft power' these days. The BBC is perhaps, along with British rock music, English football and - I hate to admit it - the Monarchy, the greatest example of British soft power there is. The idea that millions of people around the world have been watching this fiasco is terrible. The BBC managers have really fucked this up.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Bergersrightwingviews

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,155
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2023, 12:39:36 pm »
Replies/thoughts in bold...

Peace. :)

I am glad we are able to reach agreement on so much.

A few points.

The idea that they have to/should claim asylum in the 'first safe county' is a myth.

I never claimed otherwise.  Not being required to claim asylum in the first country is not the same as having a "right" to claim it anywhere.  The UK is under no obligation to allow anyone to just turn up and claim asylum by any route.  This is probably an area where the jurisprudence has gone to far.

As ever, these conversations are a mix of what people think the law is which is a grey area and what people think the law should be. I think the UK should have total discretion to limit the numbers and national origins of refugees. This is a matter for the British electorate alone in my view. This does not of course preclude voluntarily making agreements with other countries.

Of course I don't want to see people risk their lives. But with no 'safe routes' available, it's not gonna stop is it?


The Australian experience suggests it may well do.  You seem to be assuming that all these people actually are refugees.  Again, the example of the Albanians is the clearest one. It is beyond doubt that many of these people are simply seeking to improve their economic situation. It is beyond belief that 12,000 Albanians (2022 small boat arrivals) are in genuine danger of persecution in Albania which is a stable European country with ambitions to join the EU.

What if a refugee already has family in the UK?


This is irrelevant to assessing refugee status.

Again, the UK isn't over-run. It's a myth. Sorry, but it is.


You have missed the point.  The number of people that are eligible for asylum under the current permissive regime is colossal.  Asylum is not the solution to Syria, Afghanistan, Sudan and Somalia's problems.  Why should those who can make it here on a boat be privileged over old ladies and children that can't?

As for being overrun, is the country going to collapse? No.

Can councils cope with the additional strain on housing, education and medical provision? Possibly not.

As ever, nobody seems to give a single shit about the British who should always be the first concern of any British government.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Roger Scruton was right about everything.

Offline A Red Abroad

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,468
  • We had dreams and songs to sing
Re: Re: Linekergate (MoTD thread)
« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2023, 12:40:05 pm »
Here's a thought: why not judge the validity of individual Albanian refugee seeker claims instead of attempting to tar them all with the same brush.

Spot on!  :thumbup
My marmoset, to get things done,
You fell in Loch Ness with Major Tom.