Topic: Fuel & energy prices

[redbyrdz]

Had a drive round yesterday to see the prices around me. Cheapest was £1.78^.9, most expensive was "1.91^.9

How much in fuel did that cost you?

[Barneylfc∗]

How much in fuel did that cost you?

Not a lot, as I planned the route in advance to pick up my missus in town anyway. Passed 7 different garages 

[reddebs]

A spokesperson for the forecourts was on Radio 5 after things opened up being surprisingly honest about how the forecourts he represented were profiteering.  He argued that during the lockdown they had suffered losses - citing primarily the loss of sales in the shops - and that this was their time to make up lost ground.

I bet the Jet group are leading the way too, biggest rip off merchants around.

We have a small independent garage near us and they're as competitive as any of the supermarkets.

Seeing as I've stopped travelling for food shopping I'd prefer putting money in their pockets than the multinationals.

[So… Howard Philips]

I bet the Jet group are leading the way too, biggest rip off merchants around.

We have a small independent garage near us and they're as competitive as any of the supermarkets.

Seeing as I've stopped travelling for food shopping I'd prefer putting money in their pockets than the multinationals.

Are Jet still going?

They had a branch near Garston in the 1970s which was a rip off then.

[stewil007]

yes my company does the same but they really shouldn't be doing that as the rate is specifically for users with a Company Car not a Car Allowance

Our company does the same, for car allowance, you claim whatever the rates are, then at the end of the tax year, you can claim tax relief on the difference between the company rate and the Gov's 45ppm, so depending on your mileage and whether you are a basic or higher rate tax payer - it can give you a decent amount back - i used to do about 25k a year and get a tax rebate of £1k+ a year.

[redwillow]

What were the prices before these mad rises over the last few weeeks/months?

I think at the start of the year average price for Diesel in my area was around £1.40, right now its about £1.98. The highest i noticed it over the last few weeks was £2.04 (this is supermarket garages)

[Nobby Reserve]

A spokesperson for the forecourts was on Radio 5 after things opened up being surprisingly honest about how the forecourts he represented were profiteering.  He argued that during the lockdown they had suffered losses - citing primarily the loss of sales in the shops - and that this was their time to make up lost ground.

There's a huge failure of the market here.

If the market was working perfectly, some forecourts would reduce their prices to increase demand. I know price elasticity of demand is different with fuel, as it's a product all [non-EV] vehicles need, but they could win volume from their rivals.

It's normally the supermarkets who lead the way - and they made mega-profits during Covid - but they're profiteering as much as the rest.

[reddebs]

Are Jet still going?

They had a branch near Garston in the 1970s which was a rip off then.

They're all over South Yorkshire and at least 5-10p per ltr more expensive than the supermarkets.

[Wabaloolah]

A small independent retailer near me is selling unleaded at £1.79 and diesel at £1.89

Sainsbury's is £1.81 and £1.91
Asda £1.86 and £1.93

[Wabaloolah]

Handy website this, also an app, you have to register but you put in your postcode and it tells you the price of the cheapest garage to you

https://www.petrolprices.com/

[Nobby Reserve]

Wholesale gas prices up another 12% today, well past the peak of last winter.

Currently almost 10x the cost of 12 months ago.

[TSC]

Prices are only heading up

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kremlin-nord-stream-1-turbine-be-installed-volumes-will-adjust-2022-07-25/

[TSC]

Some good news in among the crap

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-lng-exports-europe-track-surpass-biden-promise-2022-07-26/

[clinical]

Handy website this, also an app, you have to register but you put in your postcode and it tells you the price of the cheapest garage to you

https://www.petrolprices.com/

The supermarkets have a lot to answer for. If they reduced prices like they should then inflation is eased a bit almost straight away.

The refinereies also making 35p/l when their usual target is 10p/l.

[Red-Soldier]

UK energy bills forecast to hit £3,850 as Russia cuts gas supply further

Industry sources say prediction is surprisingly high, but comes after Gazprom slashes flow through pipeline to Europe

Home energy bills in the UK could soar to £3,850 from January, after Russia further squeezed Europe’s gas supplies, according to a forecast that would spell further misery for people already struggling to afford gas and electricity.

The prediction, which some industry sources said should be treated with caution, follows a surge in European gas prices, as Russia cut flows through the Nord Stream 1 pipeline.

The energy-focused management consultancy BFY said it now expected October’s price cap to hit £3,420, while the subsequent rise in January could be as high as £3,850.

That would mean home energy bills would have tripled in the space of a year, given that the cap was set at £1,271 at the beginning of 2022. BFY said the average customer could end up “facing a bill of £500 in January alone”.

One source at a major power producer said they thought the forecast was surprisingly high, with the figure likely to be closer to the £3,300 already predicted by the energy analysis firm Cornwall Insight.

Cornwall is expected to update its own predictions, factoring in fresh European gas price increases, early next week.

The Kremlin-controlled gas firm Gazprom said earlier this week it would cut flows through the Nord Stream 1 pipeline to 20% of capacity, a threat it has delivered on. It blamed problems with turbines, which it said had been made worse by sanctions, imposed by the west because of the invasion of Ukraine.

Europe is scrambling to reduce reliance on Russian gas, with rationing now an option for the coming winter.

The BFY prediction will pile pressure on the UK government to give more help to struggling households. The former chancellor Rishi Sunak, who is vying with Liz Truss to become the next prime minister, said this week he would temporarily scrap the 5% VAT rate on domestic energy bills.

If bills do rise as high as BFY predicts, that would save the average household £192, compared with an increase over the past year of more than £2,500.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jul/27/uk-energy-bills-forecast-to-hit-3850-pounds-russia-cuts-gas-supply-further-europe-pipeline

[reddebs]

A small independent retailer near me is selling unleaded at £1.79 and diesel at £1.89

Sainsbury's is £1.81 and £1.91
Asda £1.86 and £1.93

I filled up at our local independent on Anglesey yesterday at £1.88, today in Barnsley the supermarkets are charging £1.93.  Both prices for diesel.

Ripping off bastards!!

[stewil007]

This price cap is what Martin Lewis said 2 weeks ago it would be hitting - approx £3,300 in Oct and £3800 in Jan.

When do the riots or mass non-payments start? 

[TepidT2O]

Fucking hell

[RainbowFlick]

https://dontpay.uk/ would be great if everyone agreed to do this. we are being taken for fools.

[west_london_red]

https://dontpay.uk/ would be great if everyone agreed to do this. we are being taken for fools.

By who?

[TepidT2O]

By who?

By whom

[Red-Soldier]

There can be no doubt that fossil fuel companies are absolute scum!


Shell posts £10bn quarterly profits as households struggle with bills

Oil company to give shareholders £6.5bn after benefiting from price surge following Ukraine invasion

Shell made record profits of nearly £10bn between April and June and promised to give shareholders payouts worth £6.5bn as the oil supermajor benefited from the surge in energy prices prompted by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

The FTSE 100 company made adjusted profits of $11.5bn (£9.5bn) during the second quarter of the year, beating its previous high – set between January and March – by 26%. The profits were more than double the same period in 2021.

The roaring trade for Shell, BP and other major oil and gas companies has stood in contrast to households and much of the rest of the economy, who have had to deal with higher energy prices that have caused inflation to soar to 40-year highs in the UK and elsewhere, and which threaten to tip economies into recessions across much of the world.

The scale of the oil companies’ profits prompted the UK government to eventually give in to demands for a windfall tax to redistribute some of the profits, although some senior Conservative ministers are thought to favour removing the tax, amid a leadership campaign that will lead to a new prime minister and cabinet in September.

The windfall tax – known as the energy profits levy – will not apply until 14 July, meaning the second-quarter profits and payouts to shareholders were not affected.

Yet it has remained a bonanza for Shell and its shareholders, who received $7.4bn in the first quarter of 2022 and will receive another $6bn in a share buyback and $1.8bn in dividends announced on Tuesday.

Shell said it had experienced “higher realised prices, higher refining margins and higher gas and power trading”.

Vladimir Putin’s invasion has meant that Shell may have to abandon its stake in the Sakhalin-2 gas project with Russia’s Gazprom. Yet the recognised costs of abandoning Russia are $4.3bn – just over a third of the profits Shell has made in three months since Kremlin troops entered Ukraine. The company had already booked costs worth $4.2bn related to its withdrawal from Russia, but it increased this estimate by only $111m in the second quarter of the year.

Shell said it expected the tight energy market was here to stay. It added $4.3bn to its income attributable to shareholders to account for higher than expected prices in the mid- and long-term “reflecting the current energy market demand and supply fundamentals”.

Ben van Beurden, Shell’s chief executive, recognised the “huge challenges for consumers, governments and companies alike” caused by the “volatile energy markets”, but argued that the company is “using our financial strength to invest in secure energy supplies which the world needs today, taking real, bold steps to cut carbon emissions and transforming our company for a low-carbon energy future.”

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/28/shell-posts-10bn-quarterly-profits-as-households-struggle-with-bills

[cdav]

Huge profits reported again this morning across the energy industry at both Shell and Centrica. All of it going to the people who matter to the companies and the government- the shareholders.

All the talk of investing in future energy production and pretty much all the surplus cash goes on share buybacks that are entirely used to boost management incentive plan payouts. An absolute joke- there should be a windfall tax throughout every level of the production chain that is making excess profits.

A small example from the Guardian- "Shell’s refining profit margins almost tripled in the last quarter, to $28 per barrel of oil. That’s up from a refining margin of $10 per barrel in the first three months of this year." That is one of the reasons fuel prices are so high for motorists

[Red-Soldier]

Huge profits reported again this morning across the energy industry at both Shell and Centrica. All of it going to the people who matter to the companies and the government- the shareholders.

All the talk of investing in future energy production and pretty much all the surplus cash goes on share buybacks that are entirely used to boost management incentive plan payouts. An absolute joke- there should be a windfall tax throughout every level of the production chain that is making excess profits.

A small example from the Guardian- "Shell’s refining profit margins almost tripled in the last quarter, to $28 per barrel of oil. That’s up from a refining margin of $10 per barrel in the first three months of this year." That is one of the reasons fuel prices are so high for motorists

Fossil Fuel companies are absolute scum mate, the lowest of the low!

They have knowingly destroyed the planet in order to make huge amounts of cash!

[stewil007]

Fossil Fuel companies are absolute scum mate, the lowest of the low!

They have knowingly destroyed the planet in order to make huge amounts of cash!

But its ok now as they're putting out adverts about how they're going green......

[Spezialo]

Costco Liverpool 1.69 today

[Red-Soldier]

Centrica profits soar in 'most challenging energy crisis in living memory'

Profits have soared at British Gas’s parent company too, thanks to higher revenues from its oil, gas and nuclear assets, and the surge in commodity prices.

Centrica has reported adjusted operating profits of $1.34bn for the first half of this year, up from £262m in January-June 2021.

    The increase in adjusted operating profit was primarily driven by the Upstream businesses, reflecting strong production and generation volumes and the impact of higher commodity prices.

    Additionally, Energy Marketing & Trading managed the more volatile commodity price environment well and delivered higher adjusted operating profit

Centrica has reinstated its dividend, which it suspended after the Covid-19 pandemic began in 2020.

Chief executive Chris O’Shea says we are facing the most challenging energy crisis in living memory:

    We’ve made significant progress de-risking the Group and building a stronger business for the benefit of all stakeholders.

    This strength has allowed us to lead the industry in measures to protect and support customers through the most challenging energy crisis in living memory and the benefit of our balanced portfolio can be seen in our first half performance. We expect this to continue into the second half, underpinning continued investment in customer service and elsewhere in our portfolio.

Centrica was also boosted by asset sales, having sold Spirit Energy’s Norwegian and Statfjord UK oil and gas assets this year ( but did make a statutory loss of £1bn due to accounting remeasurements).

Centrica insists it is “very aware” of the impact of soaring bills and wider inflationary pressures on customers, and is investing over £100m in customer service, support and pricing over 2022.

British Gas Energy is also hiring 500 more customer service staff to handle higher call volumes from customers struggling to pay their bills.

[Red-Soldier]

But its ok now as they're putting out adverts about how they're going green......

Of course. 

There's a ton of greenwashing going on.

[thaddeus]

Costco Liverpool 1.69 today

Decent, that!  It feels like a good time to go and visit my old man 

[-Willo-]

Knocks me fucking sick how the fuel you use to go to work is not tax deductible.

If you're on £30,000 a year but do 50 miles to your job specifically per day then you're not on £30,000.

If self employed people can do it then I don't see why the government cant come up with some sort of scheme based on you and your works postcode to give some sort of further tax relief.

I know that has nothing to do with fuel prices but always annoyed me, leeching c*nts.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Centrica profits soar in 'most challenging energy crisis in living memory'

Fuel prices will never go down now will they? These companies have realised they can charge what they are charging and that people will still have to buy it. Any cost reduction at their end following the end of the war or whatever will now just mean bigger margins for them.

[thaddeus]

Fuel prices will never go down now will they? These companies have realised they can charge what they are charging and that people will still have to buy it. Any cost reduction at their end following the end of the war or whatever will now just mean bigger margins for them.

The 'market' was decimated.  Any providers that worked on smaller margins were wiped out (we were with People's Energy and they were one of the first to fall - now stuck on a terrible tariff with British Gas).  Without any competition the remaining providers will coin it in.  In time new competitors may appear but that's a long way off.

Arguably those failed companies weren't set up with sufficient resilience and we should be grateful for the likes of Centrica for keeping our utilities working.  Alternatively the French model allowed the government to moderate the price spikes and it's no coincidence that French inflation is the lowest in the EU and much lower than ours (it is, of course, adding tens of billions to their national debt).

[Nobby Reserve]

The 'market' was decimated.  Any providers that worked on smaller margins were wiped out (we were with People's Energy and they were one of the first to fall - now stuck on a terrible tariff with British Gas).  Without any competition the remaining providers will coin it in.  In time new competitors may appear but that's a long way off.

Arguably those failed companies weren't set up with sufficient resilience and we should be grateful for the likes of Centrica for keeping our utilities working.  Alternatively the French model allowed the government to moderate the price spikes and it's no coincidence that French inflation is the lowest in the EU and much lower than ours (it is, of course, adding tens of billions to their national debt).

The problem most had was offering fixed-price supply for 12/24 months, but not hedging against price increaes. I guess their rationale was that energy prices had been stable for several years and without the costs of hedging, they could offer cheaper pricing. The more established suppliers did hedge, hence they're able to honour fixed-price deals for the full terms.


Additionally, in France, nuclear power generates ~70% of electrcity there, with gas under 8%, so they've not had the huge increases in feed-in costs.

The UK has around 36% of its electrcitiy from gas-powered stations. Only 17% from nuclear (~30% from wind/solar/hydro)

(Germany is 12% gas; 24% coal; 50% renewables)

[thejbs]

British Gas owner Centrica resumes shareholder payout as bills rise https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62330190

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Anyone know how to get shares in Shell?

[west_london_red]

The UK has around 36% of its electrcitiy from gas-powered stations. Only 17% from nuclear (~30% from wind/solar/hydro)

That’s where the steal is happening. Electricity prices are determined by gas prices even though it’s only used for about 1/3 of our electricity. So even if we invest in more renewables, the price of electricity we pay actually goes up because the price of gas has gone up. Complete insanity. If we actually saw renewables reduce the cost we as users pay for electricity you’d see a lot more people get onboard with it.

[BobPaisley3]

Quite ignorant personally on how petrol/diesel impacts on a car engine but I saw diesel at Tesco for 1.92 the other day and I was on practically empty. Filled up for 96 quid and it gave me 408 miles. The week before I’d filled up at shell for 1.98 a litre and £108 and it had given me 512 miles. Now I know the miles aren’t always accurate but is cheaper fuel sometimes a bit of a scam? Essentially for 4p a litre more, I’ve got about 100 miles extra in the tank.

[Red-Soldier]

That’s where the steal is happening. Electricity prices are determined by gas prices even though it’s only used for about 1/3 of our electricity. So even if we invest in more renewables, the price of electricity we pay actually goes up because the price of gas has gone up. Complete insanity. If we actually saw renewables reduce the cost we as users pay for electricity you’d see a lot more people get onboard with it.

It's as if we should've started the transition off fossil fuels, and on to renewables 40 years ago   

Governments and Big Oil companies are solely to blame for the current situation.

[Nobby Reserve]

Quite ignorant personally on how petrol/diesel impacts on a car engine but I saw diesel at Tesco for 1.92 the other day and I was on practically empty. Filled up for 96 quid and it gave me 408 miles. The week before I’d filled up at shell for 1.98 a litre and £108 and it had given me 512 miles. Now I know the miles aren’t always accurate but is cheaper fuel sometimes a bit of a scam? Essentially for 4p a litre more, I’ve got about 100 miles extra in the tank.

There've been studies showing supermarket fuel can often be lower quality and deliver lower MPG.

One [non-supermarket] garage round here has a sign saying just that

[BobPaisley3]

There've been studies showing supermarket fuel can often be lower quality and deliver lower MPG.

One [non-supermarket] garage round here has a sign saying just that

Yeah, that would make sense. For a few pence the cheaper fuel isn’t really worth it if you’re filling up.