Topic: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?

[jambutty]

CNN
James Carville knows exactly why his party lost so badly on Tuesday: "Stupid wokeness."
Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large  10 hrs ago
© David S. Holloway/CNN

That's the blunt diagnosis of the man who famously guided Bill Clinton to the White House in the early 1990s.

"Don't just look at Virginia and New Jersey," Carville told PBS' Judy Woodruff. "Look at Long Island, look at Buffalo, look at Minneapolis, even look at Seattle, Washington. I mean, this 'defund the police' lunacy, this take Abraham Lincoln's name off of schools. I mean that — people see that."

This is not a new view for Carville.

Back in July, in an interview with CNN's Chris Cuomo, Carville said the party's emphasis on "woke" issues was endangering its ability to keep its House and Senate majorities.

"We're letting a noisy wing of our party define the rest of us. And my point is we can't do that," Carville told Cuomo. "I think these people are all kind of nice people. I think they're very naive, and they're all into language and identity. And that's all right. They're not storming the Capitol. But they're not winning elections."

Carville's argument is that by focusing on removing statues or defunding the police or on proper pronouns for transgender students, Democrats are talking too much about issues that matter less to a broad swath of Americans than, say, the economy.

"Some of these people need to go to a 'woke' detox center or something," Carville told Woodruff. "They're expressing a language that people just don't use, and there's backlash and a frustration at that."

There's evidence from Virginia that Carville is on to something.  Gov.-elect Glenn Youngkin (R) centered his campaign on alleged wokeness in education -- from mask mandates to critical race theory to transgender issues.

And more than half of Virginia voters (51%) said the Democratic Party was "too liberal" in exit polling out of Tuesday's races. Youngkin won 87% of the vote among that group.

The Point: Carville's complaints about wokeness have generally been dismissed as the views of a formerly great strategist who is no longer in touch with modern politics. But, after Tuesday, Democrats should bring Carville in and listen to every word he says.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/james-carville-knows-exactly-why-democrats-lost-on-tuesday/ar-AAQkF8v?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

[jambutty]

The US is full of extremely hypocritical people.

In many suburban/remote areas social life revolves around churches where progressivism is rare and groupspeak becomes a slogan.

Presidents, and most politicians must check their atheism at the door.

Families with closeted gay members often stay silent.

Parents think they know what's best for their children to be taught in schools.

Middle America talk radio is a cesspool of Limbaugh wannabees hyping for clickbait.

Overreach could lead to disaster.

Or Trump.

[Buggy Eyes Alfredo]

This thread.   

steven monacelli      @stevanzetti

"Despite JFK Jr. failing to materialize at Dealey Plaza and the Rolling Stones concert on Tuesday, QAnon-pilled JFK Jr. Truthers are STILL gathering in Dallas. Today, they're making the shape of a Q at Dealey Plaza."

https://www.twitter.com/stevanzetti/status/1457071491825258504

"UPDATE: the situation with JFK Jr. Truthers at Dealey Plaza has, believe it or not, taken an even more bizarre turn. They've now gathered into a single line and are one by one approaching a man with a bird on his shoulder who appears to be giving them individual directions."

[Macphisto80]

This thread.   

steven monacelli      @stevanzetti

"Despite JFK Jr. failing to materialize at Dealey Plaza and the Rolling Stones concert on Tuesday, QAnon-pilled JFK Jr. Truthers are STILL gathering in Dallas. Today, they're making the shape of a Q at Dealey Plaza."

https://www.twitter.com/stevanzetti/status/1457071491825258504

"UPDATE: the situation with JFK Jr. Truthers at Dealey Plaza has, believe it or not, taken an even more bizarre turn. They've now gathered into a single line and are one by one approaching a man with a bird on his shoulder who appears to be giving them individual directions."

I don't even find this funny anymore. It's disturbing.

[Red-Soldier]

This thread.   

steven monacelli      @stevanzetti

"Despite JFK Jr. failing to materialize at Dealey Plaza and the Rolling Stones concert on Tuesday, QAnon-pilled JFK Jr. Truthers are STILL gathering in Dallas. Today, they're making the shape of a Q at Dealey Plaza."

https://www.twitter.com/stevanzetti/status/1457071491825258504

"UPDATE: the situation with JFK Jr. Truthers at Dealey Plaza has, believe it or not, taken an even more bizarre turn. They've now gathered into a single line and are one by one approaching a man with a bird on his shoulder who appears to be giving them individual directions."

Pardon my ignorance, but don't they believe he's dead or something??

[Macphisto80]

Pardon my ignorance, but don't they believe he's dead or something??

I think they do, but don't? Like, he'll come back from the dead? Not sure. Thing is, these QAnon nutters are just the tip of a headcase iceberg. They roll all the lunatic theories into one and "borrow" from other ones. The one about JFK Jr somehow being Keith Richards is hilarious, but it's something not exclusive to them. There's ones about Paul McCartney, and I even seen one that Malinda and Bill Gates weren't who they were, and that Malinda was actually Kevin Klein. It goes beyond to the likes of Zuckerberg being a Rothchild, and Merkle being the daughter of Hitler. It's funny as fuck, but take note that people actually believe this shit, and that should be a concern.

[Riquende]

Pardon my ignorance, but don't they believe he's dead or something??

Either way works. He either resurrects and they can claim some sort of biblical link, or he had to fake his own death to escape Hillary's proto-Antifa death squads and has been in hiding for 20+ years awaiting Trump to clean up the swamp enough to re-emerge, and join him as VP.

There are a lot of competing theories, but these people are all just lost at this point and will latch onto anything that vaguely fits the narrative, that there's "something wrong" with government and it needs some sort of reset. A lot of ex-hippy and "spiritual" folk seem to have fallen into this support of fascism. It's weird, but I think that's the crux of it.

There was a lot of talk after 2016 of the Bernie Bros not falling in behind Hillary, I read this the other day, an article from a Bernie supporter who then went all in on Trump, Q conspiracies etc.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/08/13/qanon-radicalization-bernie-sanders-supporter-503295

Edited for relevance:

I was radicalized overnight. I went to bed as a liberal, a die-hard Bernie Sanders supporter, social activist and a feminist. The next morning, I left the bed viewing Donald Trump — a man whom I had utterly despised — as a hero fighting a war against the Deep State.

I decided to watch the “Fall Cabal” YouTube series a friend of mine had told me about. “It’s really weird. I’d love to get your opinion on it,” she messaged me a few days before along with a link. The 10 episodes wove together a narrative about “The Cabal,” supposedly a secret and satanic pedophile ring run by members of the liberal elite, and Trump’s secret fight to overthrow them. I didn’t sleep at all that night. Instead, I found dozens of articles and videos confirming my new political views. By the morning, I was a true believer.

I think the fact that I was already a big supporter of Bernie Sanders primed me for the transformation — a process people call being red-pilled. One thing QAnon and Bernie have in common is the belief that there is a group of corrupt elites that makes it hard for everyone else in the country and the world to stay afloat. I hadn’t trusted the government entirely before 2016 — for example, I didn’t find the explanations of 9/11 or the assassination of John F. Kennedy to be satisfactory. But my distrust only strengthened when I started to support Bernie that year. I started to think that the news media, billionaires and the Democratic establishment conspired to keep Bernie from the presidency. This was a significant part of my bridge into QAnon.

“Fall Cabal” affirmed my ideas about the system being rigged against Bernie and my general mistrust of the government, and organized all those thoughts under a simple explanation — the world was being run by the Cabal. The documentary congratulated me for being able to recognize it and promised that Trump and others were already working to fix it.

[jambutty]

As much as it may upset the applecart of the Biden WH, the Squad bring some truths.

Off the top of my head, IMO:
They represent the voice of Youth.
They advance the causes of women and other genders.
They frustrate the status quo with their overreach.
They're all seemingly self-sacrificing people seeking the greater good no matter the immediate cost.
They will be recognised in future (they are building devoted followings now) as visionaries in the socio/political advancement of Yank society.
They all recognise that they may become martyrs.

One way to keep the World on a sane level would be for the Dems to go after Republican women.  Not in usual Democratic fashion, but to appeal to those older, poorly edumacated wimmins wot can't see past their husband's cock to vote for the futures of their children.

[jambutty]

Democrats move to censure GOP Rep. Paul Gosar over violent anime video
Nov. 10, 2021, 8:34 PM EST
By Dartunorro Clark

A group of House Democrats said Wednesday that they plan to introduce a resolution to censure Rep. Paul Gosar, R-Ariz., for posting an edited animated video that depicts him killing Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., and attacking President Joe Biden.

Rep. Jackie Speier, D-Calif., a co-chair of the Democratic Women's Caucus, was joined by nine other lawmakers in a joint statement announcing their plans to file the censure resolution Friday.

"For a Member of Congress to post a manipulated video on his social media accounts depicting himself killing Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and attacking President Biden is a clear cut case for censure," the lawmakers said. "For that Member to post such a video on his official Instagram account and use his official congressional resources in the House of Representatives to further violence against elected officials goes beyond the pale."

Gosar shared an altered video on his official social media channels Sunday evening in which he and other Republican lawmakers are depicted as heroes from the Japanese anime series "Attack on Titan." The faces of Ocasio-Cortez and Biden were superimposed on the show's villains. Twitter added a warning label to Gosar's tweet later.

Censure is considered the harshest form of punishment in the House after expulsion. It requires a floor vote and a simple majority to pass. Nearly two dozen lawmakers have been censured by the House since 1832. The most recent was former Rep. Charlie Rangel, D-N.Y., who was censured in a 333-79 vote in 2010 for ethics violations.

Gosar did not immediately respond to a request for comment Wednesday. In a statement Tuesday, he did not apologize for the video and pushed back against the criticism.

"It is a symbolic cartoon. It is not real life. Congressman Gosar cannot fly. The hero of the cartoon goes after the monster, the policy monster of open borders. I will always fight to defend the rule of law, securing our borders, and the America First agenda," he said.

Wednesday's statement from House Democrats also chided House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., who has not publicly commented on the video.

"As the events of January 6th have shown, such vicious and vulgar messaging can and does foment actual violence. Violence against women in politics is a global phenomenon meant to silence women and discourage them from seeking positions of authority and participating in public life, with women of color disproportionately impacted," the Democratic lawmakers said. "Minority Leader McCarthy's silence is tacit approval and just as dangerous."

McCarthy's office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., has recommended scrutiny of Gosar's actions by the House Ethics Committee and federal law enforcement. The House Democratic Policy and Communications Committee has called for an ethics investigation.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/democrats-move-censure-gop-rep-paul-gosar-over-violent-anime-n1283699

[nozza]

I can`t even begin to...I mean even if they were doing that, weren`t they the victims of a shooting? Did they therefore somehow deserve to die?

Bonkers.  ( one of the first fun pubs back in the eighties, i digress, that just hit me as i was posting)  I watched this fella Rittenhouse today on trial... the judge .....absolute twat... This kid walked around with a machine gun and killed people, it was all filmed...yet the judge is berating the prosecution....BONKERS.

[.adam]

From what I read, the prosecution mentioned a video, which had already been deemed inadmissible, in their remarks to the jury. It does seem mad though - everything I'm reading is that he is going to get off.

[CowboyKangaroo]

I can`t even begin to...I mean even if they were doing that, weren`t they the victims of a shooting? Did they therefore somehow deserve to die?

The case turns on whether it was self-defence or not. As the defence's position is that those shot were the instigators of violence of the defendant (irrespective of whether they are looters or not) it is within reason to challenge the use of the word victim. Indeed by the own testimony of one of those shot he admitted to chasing the defendant whilst another had a gun aimed at the defendant before he got shot.

The prosecution has also behaved inappropriately throughout the trial, and censure for that behaviour seems fair. If they fail to secure a conviction they will largely have only themselves to blame.

[ScouserAtHeart]

And more than half of Virginia voters (51%) said the Democratic Party was "too liberal" in exit polling out of Tuesday's races. Youngkin won 87% of the vote among that group.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/james-carville-knows-exactly-why-democrats-lost-on-tuesday/ar-AAQkF8v?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

They need to be better at messaging then and appeal to the widest possible base

[AndyInVA]

Bonkers.  ( one of the first fun pubs back in the eighties, i digress, that just hit me as i was posting)  I watched this fella Rittenhouse today on trial... the judge .....absolute twat... This kid walked around with a machine gun and killed people, it was all filmed...yet the judge is berating the prosecution....BONKERS.

The whole case to a UK based mind set (including mine) is pretty open and shut. Why would a 17 year old grab a gun and going running into a town under riot if he was not intending to use it. He has no law enforcement training, paramedic training or even owned property that he wanted to defend.

But the whole common sense of it is thrown sideways when you factor in that walking around with firearms is perfectly legal. I realize he was 17 and had that particular firearm illegally, which may be the only thing he is found guilty of. If walking around with a firearm is legal, then there suddenly is the argument that he is defending himself if he is being chased down or comes across other protestors who are armed, then suddenly it all becomes very gray.

I can well see him being found not guilty as even placing himself in a situation where he can find a reason to use his gun is not enough of a violation of US gun laws. Just doesn't make any sense when you think that regular Police were responding and things would have been the same with or without his intervention and he probably made it worse.

[Corkboy]

The whole case to a UK based mind set (including mine) is pretty open and shut.......

True and very on topic.

"That sounds fucking crazy."

"It's America."

"Oh. Right."

[nozza]

 He is going to get off with it, no doubt.The defense looks absolutely dejected after being just hammered buy the judge, who at many times has looked confused and bias at minimum. He dissmissed a lower charge just now before closing arguments.

I fear the reaction and ramifications of these decisions though, this and the Arbery case.

Rittenhouses mother has been defending the fact he was there all weekend on the news saying he was there to help? The fact that she let her 17 year kid drive 25 miles to a protest knowing he was going to be walking around that porotest with an AR15 just beggars belief for me. If anything she should be getting charged with something too.

[Chakan]

Trial wouldn't even be happening if he was black, he'd be dead.

[nozza]

Trial wouldn't even be happening if he was black, he'd be dead.

Totally agree. The protest itself is lost on this Trail, Jacob Blake, shot 7 times in the back by the police with his kids in the car. The protesters rightfully protesting.... but this kid gets to go into said protest with an AK47 shoot three people and then strolls back past the police like nothing just happened. And now the trail is turning into a shitshow, and Rittenhouse is being lourded as some kind of a hero in parts of the media, his own mother and the judge by the way he acting.

[Linudden]

The US is a crazy country with nutcase gun laws so as Europeans we tend to look at it like it's space alien land. The reality of the situation is like Andy said a bit more complicated from a legal standpoint. Considering how loaded a question it has become I'd expect that the next GOP governor of Wisconsin likely winning in 2022 because mid-terms and Wisconsin becoming ever more red than the national average would pardon Rittenhouse if he got convicted anyway.

As for the situation, US gun laws and so forth, it's just too bonkers to even comment on.

[nozza]

The prosecutor is doing a great job in closing arguments.

[John C]

The prosecutor is doing a great job in closing arguments.

What are you watching it on mate?

[nozza]

What are you watching it on mate?

sorry for late reply on this...it was on cnn live feed and fox...had to go to work.

on youtube.. prosecution first.

https://youtu.be/R2zwdAPnZM0

https://youtu.be/tY678KVdFpg

[leroy]

Trial wouldn't even be happening if he was black, he'd be dead.

Same with the January 6 mob.  Look at those sentences compared to those getting handed out to non-violent environmental protestors.

[ScouserAtHeart]

When jurors begin deliberating at 9 a.m., they will no longer consider charging Rittenhouse with illegally carrying a weapon.

The judge dropped that charge Monday after arguments about the barrel-length of the gun.

https://abc7chicago.com/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-live-kenosha-wisconsin-video-charges/11241888/

[Dim Glas]

When jurors begin deliberating at 9 a.m., they will no longer consider charging Rittenhouse with illegally carrying a weapon.

The judge dropped that charge Monday after arguments about the barrel-length of the gun.

https://abc7chicago.com/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-live-kenosha-wisconsin-video-charges/11241888/

Just setting the scene for how we all know this will end.  The fact that is a thing, is just ridiculous.

I know he’ll get away with it, cos all it is about is the self defence issue, which is utterly pathetic considering he crossed state lines and purposely went to a riot instead of doing what a kid should have been doing - keeping the heck away.  His mother needs taking to task too, what sort of son is she bringing up that this sort of behaviour is ok.  And the bullshit after at the bar, showing off and glorifying in what he did, he’s a POS.   

At least when he gets away with muder this time, what chances he will get his comeuppance at some point.  Someone who behaves like he has, can't suddenly change their charachter.

(I know I am generalising madly, but it’s just how it’ll pan out as I expect no better).

[Chakan]

Just setting the scene for how we all know this will end.  The fact that is a thing, is just ridiculous.

I know he’ll get away with it, cos all it is about is the self defence issue, which is utterly pathetic considering he crossed state lines and purposely went to a riot instead of doing what a kid should have been doing - keeping the heck away.  His mother needs taking to task too, what sort of son is she bringing up that this sort of behaviour is ok.  And the bullshit after at the bar, showing off and glorifying in what he did, he’s a POS.   

At least when he gets away with muder this time, what chances he will get his comeuppance at some point.  Someone who behaves like he has, can't suddenly change their charachter.

(I know I am generalising madly, but it’s just how it’ll pan out as I expect no better).

Unfortunately the world doesn't work like that, he'll probably have a long glorious career as a fox news analyst.

[Dim Glas]

Unfortunately the world doesn't work like that, he'll probably have a long glorious career as a fox news analyst.

true 

I just reckon that someone so badly brought up as he seems to have been, and who will likely get away with murder, will do something else utterly abhorrent at some point, but not come out of it so well, because he’ll pick on the wrong person.

(Not hoping it’ll happen like, just saying!)

[ScouserAtHeart]

Think there'll be more protests after the verdict?

[Mimi]

CNN is doing a puff interview with Chris Christie again. It must mean that is the time in the political cycle where the media falls in love/rehabilitates Chris Christie, and they buy into the notion that he’s a serious person and that there are “good” Republicans. The he does some crazy shit, or other Republicans fall behind their preferred fascist leader and Chris reverts back into his natural state of bootlicker, before he’s forgotten again.

[jambutty]

Christie may be the best of a bad lot.

Typical NY/NJ Italian American former prosecutor. Kinda like Rudy fat. Make of that what you will.

Privileged background, but aware of working class values with big city experience.

He was a decent administrator as NJ Governor, but arrogance and pettiness got the better of him.

Definitely a moderate Repug despite his Trump support.

[stoopid yank]

true 

I just reckon that someone so badly brought up as he seems to have been, and who will likely get away with murder, will do something else utterly abhorrent at some point, but not come out of it so well, because he’ll pick on the wrong person.

(Not hoping it’ll happen like, just saying!)

Rittenhouse will be found not guilty, or it will be possibly a hung jury, leading to possible retrial with different judge.

In the Arbery case I believe all 3 men will be found guilty of at least manslaughter, likely homicide and murder.

[AndyInVA]

Rittenhouse will be found not guilty, or it will be possibly a hung jury, leading to possible retrial with different judge.

In the Arbery case I believe all 3 men will be found guilty of at least manslaughter, likely homicide and murder.

The Arberry case is even more appalling. Poor kid. He must have terrified being chased by adults with guns who end shooting him to death. The idea that you need a gun to challenge someone wearing running gear is unbelievable.

[The_Nomad]

Dear America and the west generally, you now have the same situation as in many other countries that western society derides; one of the two main national political parties(the right) no longer believes in the democratic process to gain or retain power. Good luck to you and unfortunately, the rest of us too.

[jambutty]

The Arberry case is even more appalling. Poor kid. He must have terrified being chased by adults with guns who end shooting him to death. The idea that you need a gun to challenge someone wearing running gear is unbelievable.

He had been wandering around that site at least 4 times previous. 

I thought he was pissed that 3 crackers would show up to give him shit.  He looked enraged and willing to fight for his life to me.

Imagine if he would've gotten the upper hand and shot all three with their own weapons?

RIP.

[AndyInVA]

He had been wandering around that site at least 4 times previous. 

I thought he was pissed that 3 crackers would show up to give him shit.  He looked enraged and willing to fight for his life to me.

Imagine if he would've gotten the upper hand and shot all three with their own weapons?

RIP.

I find that I really can't watch those videos. I just find them too depressing. I have relied on news from good podcast sources. Construction sites are interesting and he maybe just wanted to see how it was going. I also imagine the provocateurs were pretty rude when they approached him.  That would indeed have been interesting if he had killed them. How gray would be a self defence legal defence be then.

[Nobby Reserve]

With regards to Rittenhouse, I personally think the first shooting is open and shut guilty. Rittenhouse went there as a vigilante and was looking for a confrontation (wandering round the streets, pointing his gun at protestors). The man he shot was unarmed and a few metres away from him so posing no immediate threat. Rittenhouse should and could have ran away or even retreated. Yet he chose to fire his gun, and follow that up with a kill-shot.

The other two are less clear. The defence argues he was in fear of his life, running from a chasing mob whose intent was made clear when he stumbled and was physically attacked, so shooting the two was self-defence. The prosecutors have pointed out, though, that the chasing men were trying to stop an 'active shooter' and when you put it like that - and frame it in the language of how people who chase down and incapacitate an 'active shooter' on a killing spree are hailed as heroes, not threats to the 'active shooter' - then you see their perspective. It's clever wording by the prosecution.

I just hope they get a conviction and the little shitbag serves most of his life behind bars.

[AndyInVA]

I just hope they get a conviction and the little shitbag serves most of his life behind bars.

that sums up how I feel as well

[RedSince86]

I'm not surprised anymore when someone kills 2 people and is found not guilty on all charges.

He will be NRA president in about 20 years time.

I wouldn't be surprised see some form of The Purge happening over there as well.

[Dim Glas]

I am sure no one is surprised that  little murderer Rittenhaus has been found not guilty.

 

[Igor Tripod Biscan]

I'm not surprised anymore when someone kills 2 people and is found not guilty on all charges.

He will be NRA president in about 20 years time.

I wouldn't be surprised see some form of The Purge happening over there as well.

Or USA president