Author Topic: e-scooters  (Read 30794 times)

Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #320 on: September 27, 2021, 10:45:07 am »
As I said before, bicycles, e-scooters and the likes of mobility devices that share the roads are very helpful to get around. But it requires knowledge, experience, awareness, education, discipline and common sense. And infrastructure designed to accommodate them.

I get the bicyclists/scooters/pedestrians vs automobiles debate. Its just basically finger pointing and does not help the discussion or help arrive at a conclusion.

I think this is still my stance. Only modification that I would do is include all road/walkway users into the mix.

Offline Max_powers

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #321 on: September 27, 2021, 06:15:08 pm »
These are great. If we want to combat climate change we need to reduce our dependency on cars. Even electric cars have a significant carbon footprint due to the need for large batteries and reliance on dirty power grids. E-scooters don't need huge batteries and use up less electricity.

Obviously biking and walking should be encouraged and given top priority by cities even it comes at expense of traffic flow.

But for some people due to various restrictions such as physical disability, lack of storage, lack of showers at work, long commutes etc. e-scooters make a lot of sense.

Some of the negative anecdotes posted here about cyclists, e-scooters etc miss the point. How many people are getting killed by e-scooters/cyclists every year compared to people who get killed by cars? Cars are 2-tonne metal boxes that can drive at high speeds, they are capable of killing and do kill far more people than cyclists and e-scooters ever will. I can post probably 10 stories from last month from my city where a car has caused a fatal accident and killed a pedestrian, driver or cyclist.

I would even go as far as to say that with good infrastructure e-scooters and bikes are the safest means of travelling. However, many cities are really lacking in good infrastructure respect. Which forces the mixing of high-speed car traffic with bikes, e-scooters and pedestrians.






Offline rob1966

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #322 on: September 27, 2021, 07:21:03 pm »
I get the bicyclists/scooters/pedestrians vs automobiles debate. Its just basically finger pointing and does not help the discussion or help arrive at a conclusion.

I think this is still my stance. Only modification that I would do is include all road/walkway users into the mix.

I'm not anti bike/pedestrian by the way, I'm anti anyone who rides/walks/drives like a twat, I do have a massive issue with car drivers who get too close to or hassle cyclists. It costs you 5 seconds at most to slow down and give them room.

I totally agree that we need to use cars less, but I'd much prefer the majority to get off their fat arses and walk. I walk about 14-20 miles a week just going the shops, we don't get huge shops, we shop as we ned. I saw the half year figures for Lime in Manchester, 30,000 people made 80,000 journeys but only covered 100,000 miles. That's an average of 1.25 miles per journey. Now I get that those figures will be made up of a lot of longer journeys, but the majority are going to be less than a mile and therefore well within a 10 minute walk. How can that be environmentally friendly when you have to mine the lithium in Chile, ship it to China, build the scooters and then ship them to a UK port before shipping them to each city? To me, these just promote laziness and obesity is now the biggest killer in the UK as it is.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 07:28:44 pm by rob1966 »
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Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #323 on: September 28, 2021, 08:22:41 am »
I had a busy weekend so dipped out of this thread. Been some good posts in here though.

@Rob

Those things look like a nightmare to drive. And quite frankly if you are cycling on the roads - lorries are not the issue. They are big and scary enough that you know when they come past you get out of the way - and they will leave their distance.

Mainly it is people driving carelessly or recklessly in cars that are the issue if you are cycling on the roads. I like to think this is mostly out of incompetence - however it is also done knowingly and sometimes maliciously by some. Which at the end of the day when you are speeding around in a tonne of metal will always have the potential for far worse consequences.


@The 92a

Pretty much echos my thoughts and experiences entirely.

Offline SouthDerryLaggo

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #324 on: September 28, 2021, 02:36:22 pm »
Read a few of the posts here and Its still grim to see the cars v cyclists/scooters/pedestrians debate still at the forefront. Id say I'm in the majority of cyclists who cycle but also drive, so we can't really come down on one side against drivers 100%.
From my own experiences I would say I get close passed at least once per ride. I don't ride two abreast because I'm always on my own, I always ride close to the kerb which I'm starting to think is probably the wrong thing to do. If I had a cycling partner id ride two abreast all the time on a road with a white line down it wide enough for two cars.
I do see some brutal cycling behaviour quite regularly, like skipping red lights, or jumping onto pavement and then off again into traffic, this annoys me to no end.
 When driving I come up behind tractors more often than cyclists, yet car drivers appear to be far more patient behind a tractor than a bike despite them being way harder to pass.
As for the scooter case mentioned earlier, if the scooter has veered out when the car is overtaking to avoid a pothole, shouldn't the car be passing him giving a much wider berth? like as if they were passing another car?
can't comment really on how the scooters are ridden day to day as I've only experienced them returning from anfield and they are often ridden by complete lunatics.
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Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #325 on: September 29, 2021, 08:45:21 am »
When I was in the Netherlands, I tried one of them around Eindhoven and Rotterdam. With a detailed, segregated, extensive and disciplined traffic like the one there, it was super easy to navigate through the city center. Obviously in pedestrian areas, I rode slow or carried them with me but otherwise it was a nearly perfect mobility device. That was my first attempt at driving it and I fell in love with it ever since.

Obviously, when the biking track is adjoined to a main road, its going to be extra caution time but to get from one corner of the city to another, at 8pm traffic, cost me 24 mins on this thing while my friends, who used the car took 38 mins - To navigate about 10 kms. It was better than using the public transport as the busstop was about 300m away and had busses every half hour. So you had to plan your start accordingly.

The only drawback of them was they had a pitiable range of about 30 kms. So if you are a regular owner, you might want to have two chargers - one at home and one at workplace. But with increasing fuel costs and traffic within the city, if traffic is banned near the city center, its going to be a healthy mix of pedestrians, bicyclists, e-bikes, scooters and e-scooters.

I think these things need some education and awareness on how to use them. If thats taken care of, the existing infrastructure (road markings and the likes) are 90% sufficient to be used by bicycles and scooters of both kinds.

Offline rob1966

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #326 on: September 29, 2021, 10:30:48 am »
Read a few of the posts here and Its still grim to see the cars v cyclists/scooters/pedestrians debate still at the forefront. Id say I'm in the majority of cyclists who cycle but also drive, so we can't really come down on one side against drivers 100%.
From my own experiences I would say I get close passed at least once per ride. I don't ride two abreast because I'm always on my own, I always ride close to the kerb which I'm starting to think is probably the wrong thing to do. If I had a cycling partner id ride two abreast all the time on a road with a white line down it wide enough for two cars.
I do see some brutal cycling behaviour quite regularly, like skipping red lights, or jumping onto pavement and then off again into traffic, this annoys me to no end.
 When driving I come up behind tractors more often than cyclists, yet car drivers appear to be far more patient behind a tractor than a bike despite them being way harder to pass.
As for the scooter case mentioned earlier, if the scooter has veered out when the car is overtaking to avoid a pothole, shouldn't the car be passing him giving a much wider berth? like as if they were passing another car?
can't comment really on how the scooters are ridden day to day as I've only experienced them returning from anfield and they are often ridden by complete lunatics.

Don't really mean to come across as anti cyclist in my posts, as I'd actually prefer to see more people on cycles rather than powered transport, but when driving an HGV, even though the majority of the country hate us, treat us like shit and call us c*nts for doing 56mph, when involved in an accident, then an HGV driver is suddenly a "professional" and treated as such. So when a cyclist acts like a twat and gets hurt/killed, if the HGV driver has survived the accident, then they are running the risk of being immediately blamed and arrested, therefore I'm not very forgiving to those who put drivers in that position.

I also take issue as their stupid moves, whether pedestrian, cyclist, driver, if forcing an HGV to swerve violently, will likely result in a rollover and that can and does prove fatal to the driver.

This is a very angry country and its reflected on the roads in the way people ride and drive. Its sad to see.
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Offline Max_powers

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #327 on: September 29, 2021, 08:20:49 pm »


That's the problem, people make mistakes. Whether they are on bikes, e-scooters or driving a car. I am sure you have made mistakes while driving too, maybe the consequences never materialized. It's not really "acting like twats". People shouldn't really be sentenced to death for losing concentration for a second.

The danger comes from poor infrastructure that forces these conflicts to happen and is not very forgiving. I have ridden these on sidewalks and areas separated from traffic and had no issues or safety concerns at all.

 

Offline rob1966

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #328 on: September 29, 2021, 08:32:08 pm »
That's the problem, people make mistakes. Whether they are on bikes, e-scooters or driving a car. I am sure you have made mistakes while driving too, maybe the consequences never materialized. It's not really "acting like twats". People shouldn't really be sentenced to death for losing concentration for a second.

The danger comes from poor infrastructure that forces these conflicts to happen and is not very forgiving. I have ridden these on sidewalks and areas separated from traffic and had no issues or safety concerns at all.

 

When I say act like twats I'm more thinking of the one's who jump red lights, ride the wrong way down one way streets, or shoot out of junctions without looking, these aren't mistakes, these are conscious decisions. I've come close to killing plenty of cyclists pulling shit like this down the years.

When I'm on the road I give cyclists plenty of space, both closing from behind and while passing and I will happily hang back if we are getting near to the junction I want to turn into to, last thing I want to do is hurt someone.
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Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #330 on: October 12, 2021, 08:15:37 am »
Interesting read that John. Its not surprising that the bicyclists accident rate went up by 41%. I read somewhere that bicycle sales were up 250% or something. That might've contributed to this. More vehicles, more accidents.

WRT scooters, in 6 months, there have been 484 incidents in the UK - 1 killed, 128 seriously injured and 355 slightly injured. Whilst a number not to be ignored, it perhaps should be noted that this includes the numbers where the scooters were both at fault and without fault.

Offline OOS

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #331 on: March 28, 2022, 05:19:48 pm »
Just got twatted by one walking round a blind corner on a pavement. I can't fucking stand the things. Ran over on a pavement,. Im average sized man, it would have crushed anyway else.

Towns turned into a joke with the wannabe Chris Froome delivery drivers and eScooters zooming about on pavements.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2022, 05:25:24 pm by OOS »
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Offline Roady

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #332 on: March 29, 2022, 10:52:55 pm »
If driven correctly they are a great method of transport. Bit they need to be used on the road only and in cycle lanes were possible.when I lived in Spain I had one but their rules were a lot lot different to over here.
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Offline Jake

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #333 on: March 29, 2022, 11:30:38 pm »
Are these legal everywhere now? See them daily zooming round Leeds and we don't have a local authoriy rental scheme like York or Libpool. Thinking of getting one as I walk a good mile or so to work from the free car parking area I found (tight wanker I know) and it would be a nightmare walk in a three piece on a hot day
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Offline Son of Spion

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #334 on: March 30, 2022, 12:32:06 am »
Are these legal everywhere now? See them daily zooming round Leeds and we don't have a local authoriy rental scheme like York or Libpool. Thinking of getting one as I walk a good mile or so to work from the free car parking area I found (tight wanker I know) and it would be a nightmare walk in a three piece on a hot day
As far as I know, they are still illegal to use in public spaces unless they are the ones you can hire on the street.

You'd not think so though, given the amount of private ones you see on the pavements and roads every day.
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Offline redbyrdz

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #335 on: March 30, 2022, 07:46:12 am »
Are these legal everywhere now? See them daily zooming round Leeds and we don't have a local authoriy rental scheme like York or Libpool. Thinking of getting one as I walk a good mile or so to work from the free car parking area I found (tight wanker I know) and it would be a nightmare walk in a three piece on a hot day

Afaik you need insurance for them and something Q in your driving license to legally ride one the roads. (It's because they are classed as motor vehicles.)

The hire ones take care of the insurance bit and they've probably covered the driving license bit requirement with an online training video.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 07:50:41 am by redbyrdz »
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Offline ianburns252

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #336 on: March 30, 2022, 09:08:26 am »
I used one when I was over in Bulgaria a few months ago - not sure if they have the same set up over here but the ones that you hire use you phone for GPS and on certain roads they restrict the speed.

They are not meant to be used in pedestrian areas and so if you go into one then it slows down to just above walking pace.

Seems like it should be standard everywhere to do this as it would make it much safer.

Offline rob1966

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #337 on: March 30, 2022, 09:25:53 am »
Afaik you nhttps://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/Themes/rawkv3/images/bbc/bold.gifeed insurance for them and something Q in your driving license to legally ride one the roads. (It's because they are classed as motor vehicles.)

The hire ones take care of the insurance bit and they've probably covered the driving license bit requirement with an online training video.

You can only ride a hire one, you cannot ride a privately owned one anywhere but private land and you must be over 18 and hold either a provisional or full driving licence to rent an e-scooter

Are these legal everywhere now? See them daily zooming round Leeds and we don't have a local authoriy rental scheme like York or Libpool. Thinking of getting one as I walk a good mile or so to work from the free car parking area I found (tight wanker I know) and it would be a nightmare walk in a three piece on a hot day

No, private e-scooters are still illegal, although no-one gives a shit about it and it's not like plod don't have better things to be getting on with.

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Offline redbyrdz

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #338 on: March 30, 2022, 09:45:27 am »
Ok, just looked it up, apparently the hire schemes are designated "government trials" and escooters are only legal as part of a trial.

I thought it just had to do with insurance. I don't really get why you could legally ride an electric motorbike/scooter (given driving license and insurance), where you sit down, but not one where you stand up.
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Offline sharkeyb

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #339 on: March 30, 2022, 09:08:28 pm »
Afaik you need insurance for them and something Q in your driving license to legally ride one the roads. (It's because they are classed as motor vehicles.)

The hire ones take care of the insurance bit and they've probably covered the driving license bit requirement with an online training video.

for the ones in liverpool before your first ride you need to upload a picture of your drivers license.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #340 on: March 30, 2022, 09:10:39 pm »
They're going to be nuts once the new scooter racing starts,the ones they are going to race can do 60+mph
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Offline John_P

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #341 on: March 30, 2022, 10:40:35 pm »
Getting the bus into town most mornings there always seems to be someone right in front on a scooter going down renshaw Street. Seeing all the potholes, it's an accident waiting to happen.

Whilst a good idea in theory Liverpools road, cycling, and pedestrian areas just aren't suitable for people whipping about on electric scooters.
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Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #342 on: March 31, 2022, 11:35:03 am »
Getting the bus into town most mornings there always seems to be someone right in front on a scooter going down renshaw Street. Seeing all the potholes, it's an accident waiting to happen.

Whilst a good idea in theory Liverpools road, cycling, and pedestrian areas just aren't suitable for people whipping about on electric scooters.

Yeah having scooters sharing Liverpool´s potholed roads just isn´t a long term solution. I´m not even sure it´s a short term solution. And lets face it, these things are here to stay.

Problem is, the way the city is laid out, in the vast majority of instances in which cycling and pedestrian infrastructure is improved to a decent and usable standard, it will often be at the expense of road traffic leading to the driving lobby being out in force screaming bloody murder. That in turn leads to weird half-arsed compromises that undermine the point of improving the cycling and road infrastructure in the first place (Princes Avenue the perfect example).

But then the thing is, the city´s public transport infrastructure being as inefficient and expensive as it is, the driving lobby has a point. Steve Rotheram at least does seem to be serious about having a properly integrated and affordable public transport system - although I haven´t seen much movement on that yet.

At some point the council is going to have to just learn to bite the bullet and take the flak from the city´s drivers. In the long run it is better for everyone. In fact you´d think one of the benefits of living in a city with one-party government, the council can afford to take those sorts of unpopular-but-necessary decisions without having to worry about being voted out.


Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #343 on: April 3, 2022, 10:45:03 am »
I used the entire of yesterday renting e-scooters. Parked my car on the outermost of the subway station, took the subway and then spent the entire day hopping on from one scooter to another and finishing a ton of errands. With a car, I would've probably wasted 60% of time and a ton of petrol. Overall cost, 2 euros and 35 cents for a little over 1h:49m of rental time. Plus subway was 5 euros. Thats all.

They are easy to use, surprisingly cheap, comfortable and the rules dictate I share the road with other vehicles. Which is what I did. I dont see a need to share the space with the pedestrians. I am quicker on the road than I am on the pavement.


Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #344 on: April 27, 2022, 12:05:50 pm »
Good little article on some of the pros and cons (and also the inevitability of) e-scooters :

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/27/i-know-theyre-exciting-but-calm-down-britains-love-hate-affair-with-the-e-scooter

You can still tell this is written from the perspective of someone from a place with better cycle infrastructure, but most of the points remain valid

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #345 on: April 28, 2022, 11:20:04 am »
Looks like private e-scooters will be allowed on roads.

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Offline liverbloke

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #346 on: April 8, 2023, 11:00:36 am »
i'm dragging this year-old thread up just to say...

i think i'm getting used to seeing these now and have accepted them as part of everyday life - though i've still never used one

also, is it just me or does anyone else think that the misuse of these scooters seems to be going down?

maybe the idiots found them really exciting at the start and now are becoming less and less enamoured by them?

of course there are still the nobhead but we can say the same thing about car drivers and cyclists
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Offline ToneLa

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Re: e-scooters
« Reply #347 on: April 8, 2023, 12:06:46 pm »
See the Voi ones about Sefton Park area. See them in use far less

Not seen them on Smithdown Road itself which seems like it would be too busy but saw a couple lads use em between Greenbank and Aiggy up to Otterspool and yeah a few around there

Tempted to use one BUT getting these places on foot is healthier for me

And they seem a bit pricey
« Last Edit: April 8, 2023, 12:08:20 pm by ToneLa »