Topic: To all those wishing to understand the future for Israel (*)

[DannyD]

...................  but it wasn't for the Jews -  Hamas and Fatah, Syrians and Lebanese, Iraqis and Kuwaitis, Saudis and Yemenis, Libyans and Tunisians, Algerians and other Algerians etc. would live in perfect harmony. 

You have never said if you are Jewish so it is hard to understand what you are trying to say here. You know that the theme of this thread is not about The Jews oppressing the Palestinians or creating the problems in the Mid East is it, Hart myself and thousands of others over the years have gone to great lengths to distinguish between Jew and Zionist. If you are honest with yourself and us you have to admit the whole Hart article and his book if you read it does that doesn't it. In Fact it goes further, it is a passionate cry to the Jews of the world to save their religion from Zionism before it is too late.

Do you think there would be the same level of terrorism in the world today if not for the Zionists? If The state of Israel was nor forced on the Arab masses they could well have turned their attentions to building their own nationalist states and maybe the masses of Egypt Syrian et al would have thrown out their rotten rulers and the USA would not be marching all over the region. But that is just me wishful thinking. We have to deal with what IS and what IS is the state of Israel being the cause of much too much of the terror that exists today. The PLO have lost their connection with the Arab masses due to its dealings in peace processes that never ever stood a chance. Even Rabin's brave attempt was never going to be a reality and he and Arafat and many other doves on both sides lost their lives trying. The PLO has given up the hearts and minds of the disfranchised Arab youth to Islamic fundamentalism and all they represent. Israel has had from day one enough chances to live in peace with its neighbours but chose not to and instead its Zionist leadership set in place the construction of the Greater Israel. If you think about it and place that policy alongside the theory of Israel being the home of all Jews that was the intention all along. From a homeland for Jews through to a Jewish State to the present Israel the aim has been to recreate the Jewish homeland of some 2000 years ago. Alan Hart tracers this line back to the very first conference held by the Zionists in Switzerland.

Having said that all is not lost, a fight by free thinking Jews in Israel and the Diaspora united with progressive gentiles and Arabs can force back the tide of Zionist expansionism. A battle to remove the settlers from The West Bank and allow that and Gaza to form an autonomous Palestinian state would be a start. If you are Jewish you should fight within your community for this to be a reality if you are an American citizen either Jew Gentile or Arab  and entitiled to vote you  should look to those in the coming US elections who put forward policies for real peace based on an actual two state principle and vote for them better still or if you don't have the vote campaign alongside them. In Europe if you are members of a Trade Union or profesional body you can put forward resolutions calling for the removal of all illegal settlements and the formation of a Palestine State on the West Bank & Garza. Writing letters to Congressmen and MPs might not sound a lot but if that’s all you can do then do it. Let the powers the be know the level of disgust that exists in the world today over the treatment of the Palestiinians. Join one of the many anti-Zionists Jewish organisations in the US you could start here http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ and in the UK subscribe to The Palestine Solidarity Campaign http://www.palestinecampaign.org/default.asp, anywhere else these two sites will give you links to local ones in your area they will also show you how you can help. If you care about your Jewish heritage that has given so much in spite or maybe because of all the suffering it has gone through do not allow it to be further hi-jacked by an extreme right wing political movement that in the final analysis is opposed to real Judaism.

[BIGdavalad]

Israel has had from day one enough chances to live in peace with its neighbours but chose not to

Is that day one as in the day that numerous Arab armies attacked Israel on the day it was formed, or a different day one?

[DannyD]

Is that day one as in the day that numerous Arab armies attacked Israel on the day it was formed, or a different day one?

When faced with a provocation or should I say an event waiting to happen even the self seeking Kings, Princes and potentate of the Arab front line nations “united” in the Arab League could do nothing else, in spite of there being another path for both sides, but could Britain have done anything else but declare war on Germany in 1939

They knew a war between Jews and Arabs was coming the whole world knew you cannot go to the USA and stand in front of millionaire Jews at fund raising meetings tell them you need money for arms come away with over 50m as Golda Meir did. With the money Ben Gurion bought arms from Czechoslovakia and other East European states enough weapons and ammunition to equip a small army including planes and armoured vehicles not the most up to date equipment but enough for what was needed.. Did anyone expect the Arabs to sit back and wait for the inevitable?

Zionists tactics back then are the same used at every turn in Israel’s history, create a certain and sure provocation, then claim to be the victims. The world turned a blind eye to the Irgun and Palmachs ethnic cleansing of the allotted Jewish section of the divided Palestine they had also secured important positions inside the Arabs sector for no other reason than military. When elements of the Arab armies entered Palestine on the pretext of defending the Palestinian people the first thing they did was disarm anyone found with a weapon and if they failed to hand it over they were shot. A lot of the Egyptian raw recruits refused to obey this command and called their officers traitors.

The total difference between the Arab preparations for the inevitable war and the Zionists was the Arab leadership thought they could win it on rhetoric, while Zionism laid the plans to win a victory with the weapons brought home by Golda Meir.

But from day one that Zionism was given the green light to set foot in Palestine the war and every war after if was inevitable including the outcome.  

[BIGdavalad]

When faced with a provocation or should I say an event waiting to happen even the self seeking Kings, Princes and potentate of the Arab front line nations “united” in the Arab League could do nothing else

So the day the combined armies of seven countries and a couple of Arab militias invaded them and tried to wipe them out is the day one that they were given a chance to live in peace with their neighbours?

Either they were given a chance to live in peace or war was inevitable - it can't be both.

[DannyD]

So the day the combined armies of seven countries and a couple of Arab militias invaded them and tried to wipe them out is the day one that they were given a chance to live in peace with their neighbours?

Either they were given a chance to live in peace or war was inevitable - it can't be both.

Probably day one was back in 1897 when Theodor Herzl the founder of modern day Zionism and the man who wrote Der Judenstaat The Jewish State now if that is not a dead give away as to their intentions then what is. They made it only too clear that the land they wished for was the land the Jews inhabited 2000 years ago, the problem was nobody wanted to hear that to take that on board they would have to agree from the start to a Jewish State.. The British wanted to use the term “homeland” for the Jews inside Palestine, and when the vote for partition was being taken none of the delegates thought that was what was being decided. Everyone knew that Ben Gurion was about to proclaim a unilateral declaration of independence, they had a flag and a name that was already on politicians lips

The Arab leaders as they are to this day were far from willing to make sacrifices for the Palestinian people but nobody was talking to them while all this was going on except ambassadors talking sweetly that Britian would never abandon its allies for some Johnny Come Lately. That is not what the Arab leaders wanted to hear. There was no agreement that if they were attacked Britain France and the USA would arm them and if necessary send a UN force to quell the invasion. The US could have stopped Zionism from attacking the Arabs in what was still Palestine. They did nothing and when the UDI was declared by Ben Gurion the USA nearly broke a limb getting down to the UN podium to recognise the Jewish state.


The Zionists since partition had been at war with the Palestinians both inside her boundaries and those designated by the UN as Arab, but even then peace could have broken out instead of full blown war. Golda Meir was talking with Trans- Jordan’s King Abdullah right up to the start of the war he had the only creditable army in the Arab League and that was nothing more than the Bedouin Arab Legion lead by Sir John Bagot Glubb (Glubb Pasha to his troops) and staffed and trained by British officers. It was the Jewish attack on Jerusalms Arabs that brought the war into being and Glubb was loath to do anything about it but the Holy Places were the responsibility of his boss and his family. Up until the point he had been working behind the scenes to halt any hostilities he was a pragmatists and knew that war would not be the end of the problem no matter who was the victor At the last meeting of the Arab League he told the delegates “ Before plunging into war my advice is stop shooting at the Jews and demand an explanation from them. Has anyone ever tried this, just to find out the possibilities?” Abdullah as Arafat was to do many times years up the line thought there was a genuine move to a peaceful solution and he wanted Meir and himself to do the spade work. It wasn’t until the Zionist terror gangs began to move on the Arab districts of Jerusalem that he realised he had been tricked and The Zionists wanted war at all costs.

If the Zionists wanted only to declare their state in the borders given to them by the UN it could have been created a few years up the line with a political way forward lead by Abdullah, this was a promise of a King and he being the real strongman of the Arab League it was a near certainty the rest of the Arab nations would have followed suite., but Zionism was after more than a Jewish state in the borders it was allowed it had thrown the dice waited for them to fall and before they stopped turning marched into Arab Palestine. All your tear jerking emotive nonsense about poor little Israel being threatened by the nasty Arab hordes is the same propaganda they use today, in spite of having the world 4th largest armed forces and a whole silo of Nukes it is still portrayed as poor little Israel. Out of the forces against it only Trans Jordan could look after itself and that was the one battalion of the Arab Legion, Egypt’s King Farouke was a playboy and got bored with playing soldiers and left it to a history professor to deal with coupled with incompetence and British duplicity the in fighting that went on between the Arab leaders and their generals was a certainty for defeat. So take the rag away from your face now aint the time for your tears (Bob Dylan) Or you shed them for the wrong people.

[DannyD]

Either they were given a chance to live in peace or war was inevitable - it can't be both.

And what about peace today do you think Israel will allow an autonomous  Palestinian State?

[BarryCrocker]

This shit has been going on for the past few weeks. We should be able to discuss on here without bring up Israel/Palestine debate. It's more focused on right-wing governments push to wind back independent judiciary so they can do whatever they want. Madness to see so many Israeli flags being flown at protests in Tel Aviv.

Netanyahu expected to announce halt to plans to overhaul Israeli judiciary
Israeli prime minister likely to put controversial legislation on hold amid mass protests overnight

Israel’s embattled prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, is expected to announce a halt to his far-right government’s proposal to overhaul the judiciary, after a decision to sack his defence minister for opposing the plans sparked mass protests across the country overnight.

Israeli media outlets, citing sources in Netanyahu’s Likud party, reported on Monday morning that in a televised address the prime minister was expected to announce a freeze to the bitterly contested legislation, which would limit the powers of the country’s supreme court.

Shortly before he was due to speak, Israeli television said the statement, originally announced for 10.30am (08.30am BST), would be delayed due to disarray in the governing coalition.

Netanyahu’s statement will follow one of the most dramatic nights in Israeli history, as tens of thousands of people took to the streets to protest against the firing of the defence minister, Yoav Galant, who became the first senior governing coalition official to made a public call to scrap the proposals on Sunday night.

President Isaac Herzog, writing on Twitter in the early hours of Monday morning, said: “For the sake of the unity of the people of Israel, for the sake of responsibility, I call on [Netanyahu] to stop the legislative process immediately.”

Supporters of the changes, introduced almost immediately after the new government entered office in December, say they are needed to better balance the branches of government and combat a perceived leftwing bias in the court’s rulings. Critics say they will give politicians too much power over the judiciary by allowing a simple majority in the Knesset to overrule almost all of the court’s decisions, and give politicians a decisive say on appointments to the bench.

It has also been pointed out the move could help Netanyahu evade prosecution in his corruption trial, in which he denies all charges.

The prime minister, taken aback by the scale of the protest movement against the proposals, including opposition from within the military and Israel’s vital hi-tech sector, has reportedly held talks with the opposition geared towards a compromise.

Until now, however, he appears to have been hostage to far-right coalition partners spearheading the plans, who have threatened to bring down the government if their demands are not met.

Strikes are expected on Monday, as well as another protest outside the Knesset building in Jerusalem at 2pm (12pm GMT).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/27/israel-netanyahu-judiciary-plans-halt

[TepidT2O]

What a parasite he is.  Huge scenes in the streets of Israel if you haven’t seen them

[BarryCrocker]

What a parasite he is.  Huge scenes in the streets of Israel if you haven’t seen them

Madness that a large portion of the country continually votes for someone who's only interested in serving himself. Not the only democracy to go down this path.

[Libertine]

Absolutely extraordinary scenes which gives some hope that there is life left in Israel's democracy.

Hopefully Netanyahu has finally gone too far this time and fucked himself. But we've seen many cases where the autocrats have held on despite such demonstrations.

[KillieRed]

Madness that a large portion of the country continually votes for someone who's only interested in serving himself. Not the only democracy to go down this path.

Haven’t been keeping track but is his government not another coalition, and therefore he is pushing his minority views on the country? It’s probably no coincidence that Netanyahu wants to rein in a judiciary that went after him in the course of their legitimate duty.

It is very disturbing the way that right wing government want to “reform” their legal systems, remove oversight and limit dissent and demonstrations against them. We’ve seen it in the openly authoritarian countries, but also in the US and the UK. It’s almost as if they have a common playbook.

[BarryCrocker]

Haven’t been keeping track but is his government not another coalition, and therefore he is pushing his minority views on the country? It’s probably no coincidence that Netanyahu wants to rein in a judiciary that went after him in the course of their legitimate duty.

It is very disturbing the way that right wing government want to “reform” their legal systems, remove oversight and limit dissent and demonstrations against them. We’ve seen it in the openly authoritarian countries, but also in the US and the UK. It’s almost as if they have a common playbook.

The Likud has many right-wing partners who are backing him due to his support of Israeli expansionism.

Imagine if a US government was able to 'reform' their legal system to roll back things like the 'right to bear arms'.

[Red-Soldier]

The Likud has many right-wing partners who are backing him due to his support of Israeli expansionism.

Imagine if a US government was able to 'reform' their legal system to roll back things like the 'right to bear arms'.

Or even the right to have an abortion.

[BarryCrocker]

Or even the right to have an abortion.

The pro-choice crowd would just protest. The 2nd Amendment supporters would overthrow the government.

[west_london_red]

Is this for real?

It’s from 15 years ago!

[classycarra]

It’s from 15 years ago!

and firmly tongue in cheek in response to a teenager saying that Israel should be blown off the map (I guess that part didn't need questioning if it was for real, as it's a more commonly encountered viewpoint..!)

[Yorkykopite]

Love the fight back.

[Yorkykopite]

What a superb banner.

https://twitter.com/krassenstein/status/1640071584172892160/photo/1

[Nobby Reserve]

Madness that a large portion of the country continually votes for someone who's only interested in serving himself. Not the only democracy to go down this path.

A large proportion of the people who have immigrated into Israel in more recent times have been Jews who identity as either Orthodox or Ultra-Orthodox. They view the whole wider area as God-given to Jews, and want to ethnic-cleanse  the area of gentiles. A lot of the [illegal] settlement expansions into Palestinian areas, ethnic-cleansing resident Palestinians.


This is a sobering recent articke about the far-right in Israel, which is founded on Jewish ethno-nationalism.

Amongst the surveys/studies it cites are that 18-24 year olds are far more likely to identify as and vote for right-wing parties (73%) and this is growing. Contrast that with only 46% of over-55s.

Adfitionally, just 20% of 18-24 y/o's support a 2-state solution (68% oppose it)

A large part of this is the respective fertility rates for different groups. It's 6.6 per female for Ultra-Orthodox & 3.9 Orthodox, as opposed to 2.0 for secular Israelis.

But also, the increasingly right-wing media has been whipping-up fear and anti-Arab hate, and schools are increasingly teaching the ethno-nationalist message.

Despite growing up in one of the safest eras of Israeli history, more 18-24 y/o's than ever say that the Israeli state cannot protect them (and so want a more aggressively militant government against Arabs)

That all suggests that ethno-nationalist extremism and anti-Arab prejudice/hate is only going to grow.

Already we've seen the rise of religio-far-right extremist Itamar Ben-Gvir and his party. This a man to openly advocates for Israel to withdraw from the Oslo Accords and fully annex the West Bank, expelling any indigenous Arab who are deemed to be "disloyal" to Israel (Ben-Gvir until recently had a portrait hanging in his living room of mass-murderer Baruch Goldstein, who massacred 29 Arab Palestinians (including children as young as 12) in 1994. His party's campaigning gas included catchphrases such as “Who are the real landlords here? The time has come. Jewish Power.”

Ben-Gvir is part of Netanyahu's government. As Minister for National Security.

Wonder how long it will be before people will be able to draw historical parallels with a certain period of evil far-right ethno-nationalism, without being branded antisemitic..?

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/2/23/23609584/israel-right-wing-young-voters-palestine


PS - credit to DannyD for some brilliant posts back in 2007,in the face of some provocation.

[Red Beret]

I have an American friend who moved to Israel to marry. She's currently working at Tel Aviv airport. Her and her husband are looking to apply for citizenship of another country to get the hell out. She's eligible for Serbian citizenship and he can get Romanian.

[Ray K]

The Israel Philharmonic Orchestra joining the protests on the streets playing the national anthem

https://twitter.com/BokerIris/status/1639901153872707588

Time for Biden to lay down the hammer on that thug Netanyahu.

[Nobby Reserve]

The Israel Philharmonic Orchestra joining the protests on the streets playing the national anthem

https://twitter.com/BokerIris/status/1639901153872707588

Time for Biden to lay down the hammer on that thug Netanyahu.

There'll be another fascist waiting to take over, then another. And many are way worse than Netanyahu.

Problem is, for every protester, there's 2 or 3 Israelis who want the government even more right-wing.

[classycarra]

Always an interesting phenomenon, seeing people on the left talking down the prospects of people achieving change and protecting (or moving closer to) democracy by taking to the streets.

Will be quite intriguing to monitor online how some of the more regressive left commentate on this, because when it happens in south american to some kleptocrat purporting to be left wing while robbing their country they always manage to twist it to "but the CIA" or some equivalent conspiracy, or theocrats if we're talking about how these same people achieve the cognitive dissonance to dismiss lefty iranians and syrians.

But this time it's movement against the far right in Isreal - i am sure the knee-jerk tried and tested response to mention it's all false and come about by CIA instigators will be there, but they'd have to umjumble their brains and their politics to try to handle the US making clandestine anti-fascist moves in the middle east or alternatively the US/CIA aren't as omnipresent and responsible for everything they want to comment on in global politics (as they've spent their life conspiracy-theorising)

[Nobby Reserve]

Always an interesting phenomenon, seeing people on the left talking down the prospects of people achieving change and protecting (or moving closer to) democracy by taking to the streets.

Will be quite intriguing to monitor online how some of the more regressive left commentate on this, because when it happens in south american to some kleptocrat purporting to be left wing while robbing their country they always manage to twist it to "but the CIA" or some equivalent conspiracy, or theocrats if we're talking about how these same people achieve the cognitive dissonance to dismiss lefty iranians and syrians.

But this time it's movement against the far right in Isreal - i am sure the knee-jerk tried and tested response to mention it's all false and come about by CIA instigators will be there, but they'd have to umjumble their brains and their politics to try to handle the US making clandestine anti-fascist moves in the middle east or alternatively the US/CIA aren't as omnipresent and responsible for everything they want to comment on in global politics (as they've spent their life conspiracy-theorising)

You're not doing so bad yourself, lad.

[Yorkykopite]

Problem is, for every protester, there's 2 or 3 Israelis who want the government even more right-wing.

That doesn't sound right to me. Can you show your evidence for that?

[Yorkykopite]

Always an interesting phenomenon, seeing people on the left talking down the prospects of people achieving change and protecting (or moving closer to) democracy by taking to the streets.

That stings! I hope.

[Red-Soldier]

Always an interesting phenomenon, seeing people on the left talking down the prospects of people achieving change and protecting (or moving closer to) democracy by taking to the streets.

What is this 'left' you talk about?

I'm firmly left of centre, and I think it's great that these people are sticking it to Netanyahu and his disgusting government. 

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

You're not doing so bad yourself, lad.

The less said about his views the better.

[Yorkykopite]

What is this 'left' you talk about?

I'm firmly left of centre, and I think it's great that these people are sticking it to Netanyahu and his disgusting government. 

Then you've no need to worry. That's obviously NOT the left that Carra is talking about. In fact your 'left' is probably similar to my 'left' which is the same as most people's left. We loathe Netanyahu and his extremist allies, we admire the demonstrators and are encouraged by their numbers and we hope for a better, more democratic, more left wing government in Israel. 

[Kalito]

A large proportion of the people who have immigrated into Israel in more recent times have been Jews who identity as either Orthodox or Ultra-Orthodox. They view the whole wider area as God-given to Jews, and want to ethnic-cleanse  the area of gentiles. A lot of the [illegal] settlement expansions into Palestinian areas, ethnic-cleansing resident Palestinians.


This is a sobering recent articke about the far-right in Israel, which is founded on Jewish ethno-nationalism.

Amongst the surveys/studies it cites are that 18-24 year olds are far more likely to identify as and vote for right-wing parties (73%) and this is growing. Contrast that with only 46% of over-55s.

Adfitionally, just 20% of 18-24 y/o's support a 2-state solution (68% oppose it)

A large part of this is the respective fertility rates for different groups. It's 6.6 per female for Ultra-Orthodox & 3.9 Orthodox, as opposed to 2.0 for secular Israelis.

But also, the increasingly right-wing media has been whipping-up fear and anti-Arab hate, and schools are increasingly teaching the ethno-nationalist message.

Despite growing up in one of the safest eras of Israeli history, more 18-24 y/o's than ever say that the Israeli state cannot protect them (and so want a more aggressively militant government against Arabs)

That all suggests that ethno-nationalist extremism and anti-Arab prejudice/hate is only going to grow.

Already we've seen the rise of religio-far-right extremist Itamar Ben-Gvir and his party. This a man to openly advocates for Israel to withdraw from the Oslo Accords and fully annex the West Bank, expelling any indigenous Arab who are deemed to be "disloyal" to Israel (Ben-Gvir until recently had a portrait hanging in his living room of mass-murderer Baruch Goldstein, who massacred 29 Arab Palestinians (including children as young as 12) in 1994. His party's campaigning gas included catchphrases such as “Who are the real landlords here? The time has come. Jewish Power.”

Ben-Gvir is part of Netanyahu's government. As Minister for National Security.

Wonder how long it will be before people will be able to draw historical parallels with a certain period of evil far-right ethno-nationalism, without being branded antisemitic..?

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/2/23/23609584/israel-right-wing-young-voters-palestine


PS - credit to DannyD for some brilliant posts back in 2007,in the face of some provocation.

Good post.



PS. DannyD - dude's a Legend.

[classycarra]

What is this 'left' you talk about?

I'm firmly left of centre, and I think it's great that these people are sticking it to Netanyahu and his disgusting government. 

Some quite prominent names in the UK's largest party on the left.

On laundering the Cuban dictatorship while Cubans protest:

Paula Barker, Grahame Morris, Dianne Abbott, Zara Sultana, Richard Burgon and Ian Lavery
[source https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-can-t-these-labour-mps-condemn-cuba-s-authoritarian-regime/ ]

On laundering the Venezuelan dictatorship while Venezuelans protest [bear in mind most of these names fully supported the dictatorship by playing the act of neutral election observers in 2012, while professionals ]:

Dianne Abbott, Owen Jones, Jeremy Corbyn, Grahame Morris and Colin Burgon
[source https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/diane-abbott-said-past-venezuela-elections-were-more-robust-than-in-britain ; https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/03/shami-chakrabarti-defends-jeremy-corbyn-venezuela-remarks ; https://www.hackneycitizen.co.uk/2012/11/09/diane-abbott-chavez-election-venezuela/ ]

Hopefully that helps demonstrate what I was going for (as was already helpfully picked up by others - I may be wrong, but I don't think I'm referring to your politics here. And you and me both on your second sentence.

EDIT:
realised I didn't offer an Iran example, so lets go with Corbyn again in 2018 [ here's a source for that too, from one of his political allies https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/jeremy-corbyns-principled-silence-iran-protests-demands-respect ]

I see I've been labelled a conspiracy theorist by Nobby haha. Hope he reads and appraises the sources provided above, I feel he might want to reconsider

[Sangria]

Always an interesting phenomenon, seeing people on the left talking down the prospects of people achieving change and protecting (or moving closer to) democracy by taking to the streets.

And same individuals would simultaneously defend Palestine to the hilt.

For all the hypocrisy of Israel that I will never stop pointing out, there is a liberal streak in Israel that is unique in the middle east, and completely missing from practically all Muslim countries. Take the most liberal Muslim countries, and they are far, far more conservative than the Israel that these left wingers constantly do down.

[classycarra]

PS - credit to DannyD for some brilliant posts back in 2007,in the face of some provocation.

PS. DannyD - dude's a Legend.

This part of his post has me thinking that DannyD - were he still around these RAWK pastures - would be joining you (Nobby and Kalito) and me in cheering on the protesters trying to protect democracy in Israel (an interest area of his), by protesting the far-right's creeping efforts to stymie the judiciary of its powers to hold those in power to certain checks and balances.

It's always worth cheering on any steps taken that help prevent a sitting government making any movement towards fascistic politics, which is what convinces me we'd all share this view on common

We do know for a fact that Israel is not a modern day beacon of progressive liberties is it? In fact it is the very opposite, in spite of its claim to be a democracy.

[The North Bank]

Apartheid State . Treating Arabs like second class citizens- turning the West Bank into the worlds largest prison and Palestinians into slavery. No protests

Change the judiciary- millions on the streets. It’s no wonder Natanyahu is surprised.
All he needs to do is invade the West Bank again, kill a few “terrorists” to protect Israel, and they’ll soon be eating out of his palm again. He knows the playbook.
You can’t put someone above international law , keep electing him , then wave no one is above the law banners.
 He’s already got his battle hardened far right militias, fresh from burning Arab towns as the police joined in, all it needs is a change of narrative and the term “terrorist” can be expanded to include anyone who protests against the government. Regardless if they’re Arab or Jew.
They created a monster and now are panicking because he’s turned on them. He’s got his extremist chosen ones telling him Israel doesn’t have prime ministers, only kings.
Arise king bibi.

[RedGuy]

Apartheid State . Treating Arabs like second class citizens- turning the West Bank into the worlds largest prison and Palestinians into slavery. No protests

Change the judiciary- millions on the streets. It’s no wonder Natanyahu is surprised.
All he needs to do is invade the West Bank again, kill a few “terrorists” to protect Israel, and they’ll soon be eating out of his palm again. He knows the playbook.
You can’t put someone above international law , keep electing him , then wave no one is above the law banners.
 He’s already got his battle hardened far right militias, fresh from burning Arab towns as the police joined in, all it needs is a change of narrative and the term “terrorist” can be expanded to include anyone who protests against the government. Regardless if they’re Arab or Jew.
They created a monster and now are panicking because he’s turned on them. He’s got his extremist chosen ones telling him Israel doesn’t have prime ministers, only kings.
Arise king bibi.

Sorry mate you're misinformed. What you wrote is relevant only for his supporters. The left and center do not believe his lies for years. In fact, a major factor in these protests is the refusal of army reservists to come to reserve duty as they do not trust the current coalition.
The major problem as mentioned earlier here is a demographic problem. Orthodox and other religious jews (which are usually on netanyahu's side), and Israeli Arab citizens (whose political parties usually don't sit with either the left or right) are simply having much more kids than the secular, liberal, pro Palestinian solution Israelis.

I've been taking to the streets every few days in the past couple of months, it's insane what is happening. Unfortunately even if these protests will work I simply don't see a future for myself in the only country that is safe for our people. Religion is a terrible thing. My mother is working on getting a Romanian citizenship for her and the rest of my family, much to the despair of her father who had to escape europe due to persecution. It is a difficult time.

[BarryCrocker]

I've been taking to the streets every few days in the past couple of months, it's insane what is happening. Unfortunately even if these protests will work I simply don't see a future for myself in the only country that is safe for our people. Religion is a terrible thing. My mother is working on getting a Romanian citizenship for her and the rest of my family, much to the despair of her father who had to escape europe due to persecution. It is a difficult time.

The 'only' country safe for your people? Really?

Doesn't sound really safe judging by what Bibi and his crew want to do. Besides the impacts on non-Jewish Israelis you'll see a country barrelling towards rolling back the freedoms on liberal Jews.

[Yorkykopite]

It's a tricky one for some people on the extreme parts of the Left. They obviously hate Netanyahu as much as the demonstrators do, but they hate the demonstrators too. Indeed to them there is no real or fundamental difference between Netanyahu and the demonstrators, as North Bank's post above shows.  They are all 'the oppressors' and stand condemned not for what they do or don't do, but simply because they are Israelis.

This is not quite the same dilemma for them as when millions came out into the streets to protest in Iran. Because the Iranian regime is anti-American it was a relatively easy thing for the Far Left in this country to pick sides. They were for the Ayatollahs and the Theocracy rather than the people. But in Israel it's Hobson's Choice. As I say, they hate both sides. A mind fuck!

It must be even more confusing to them that Netanyahu appears to be wanting to compromise. He should, as a Fascist, be turning central Tel Aviv into the Maidan now. And I would imagine it's impossible for North Bank and people of his opinion to accept that what the immense crowds want is for their government to observe the constitution and be true to Israeli democracy. These after all are the sorts of crowds that many of us here hoped would come out in London and Edinburgh to defend our own representative institutions when Johnson was trashing them 2 years or so ago. I envy the Israelis their democratic political consciousness and their determination to defend the independent judiciary.

What I'd love to see is how the Iranian regime, or the Syrian of Egyptian ones, are covering these massive demonstrations on their own media. It tends to be a bit of a mind fuck for them as well when Israelis take to the streets to protest. First of all there are no riot police trying to smash people in, no water cannons and rubber bullets. There are no mass arrests with people disappearing into improvised prisons, never to be seen again until their parents are told to pay for the burial expenses. There are no religious police going round on motorbikes and picking people off, or government snipers shooting from high buildings. Much as the Ayatollahs or President Assad would like to show Netanyahu in turmoil they simply cannot afford to show their own oppressed millions images of the kind of turmoil he is in. Their own people will say "Why are we not allowed to demonstrate like that?" or "What is an independent judiciary anyway?"

To sum up, it is obvious to any clear-thinking person that there is a fundamental difference between the loathsome Netanyahu and the admirable crowds. Let's hope this is a beginning of something in Israel. 

[Jiminy Cricket]

It's a tricky one for some people on the extreme parts of the Left. [...]

We need the ability to thumbs-up posts like the above at RAWK.

[The North Bank]

It's a tricky one for some people on the extreme parts of the Left. They obviously hate Netanyahu as much as the demonstrators do, but they hate the demonstrators too. Indeed to them there is no real or fundamental difference between Netanyahu and the demonstrators, as North Bank's post above shows.  They are all 'the oppressors' and stand condemned not for what they do or don't do, but simply because they are Israelis.

This is not quite the same dilemma for them as when millions came out into the streets to protest in Iran. Because the Iranian regime is anti-American it was a relatively easy thing for the Far Left in this country to pick sides. They were for the Ayatollahs and the Theocracy rather than the people. But in Israel it's Hobson's Choice. As I say, they hate both sides. A mind fuck!

It must be even more confusing to them that Netanyahu appears to be wanting to compromise. He should, as a Fascist, be turning central Tel Aviv into the Maidan now. And I would imagine it's impossible for North Bank and people of his opinion to accept that what the immense crowds want is for their government to observe the constitution and be true to Israeli democracy. These after all are the sorts of crowds that many of us here hoped would come out in London and Edinburgh to defend our own representative institutions when Johnson was trashing them 2 years or so ago. I envy the Israelis their democratic political consciousness and their determination to defend the independent judiciary.

What I'd love to see is how the Iranian regime, or the Syrian of Egyptian ones, are covering these massive demonstrations on their own media. It tends to be a bit of a mind fuck for them as well when Israelis take to the streets to protest. First of all there are no riot police trying to smash people in, no water cannons and rubber bullets. There are no mass arrests with people disappearing into improvised prisons, never to be seen again until their parents are told to pay for the burial expenses. There are no religious police going round on motorbikes and picking people off, or government snipers shooting from high buildings. Much as the Ayatollahs or President Assad would like to show Netanyahu in turmoil they simply cannot afford to show their own oppressed millions images of the kind of turmoil he is in. Their own people will say "Why are we not allowed to demonstrate like that?" or "What is an independent judiciary anyway?"

To sum up, it is obvious to any clear-thinking person that there is a fundamental difference between the loathsome Netanyahu and the admirable crowds. Let's hope this is a beginning of something in Israel.

“He might be horrible, but he protects us from Iran and Syria”

Taken straight from the bibi playbook. If in doubt write a whole post about Iran and Syria , because being better than them is a real standard for democracy.

Pretty low standards to be fair, but then you’re insinuating that I’m on the side of the ayatollahs in Iran so clearly you would steep to any depth…. you’ll have to go it alone. I’d rather stick to the truth.

[Yorkykopite]

“He might be horrible, but he protects us from Iran and Syria”

Who said that? You? No one else did.

And surely the whole point of these mass demonstrations is that people do NOT believe that.

And, by the way, I am NOT in doubt. How could you think I was, having read my post!!  Very strange. I believe Netanyahu is evil. I support the Israelis opposing him. I admire a system that lets them.