Topic: The Labour Party (*)

[oldfordie]

Seems like Corbyn beat May soundly at PMQs ...

Good stuff

He's still not hammering home the big points though.
Corbyn says primary schools are being forced to cut 2 teachers. senior school are being forced to cut 6 teachers.  that is scandalous but he only mentioned it once while May kept on saying the Torys have put more teachers in our schools repeatedly.
Am not interested in the grammar school arguments or re budgeting.
The only facts that matter are they are cutting 2 teachers from my grand children's school and 6 from senior schools.
He should just of kept on repeating this fact every time May says the Torys have put more teachers into our schools.

[zebenzui]

Thanks for the stuff on Foot, folks.   

[SP]

Corbyn's media team has released a statement on the incident in Westminster today. It was just as bland as it should have been, but they have done their job properly in a timely fashion. The damning thing is that this is worthy of comment.  But Corbyn is having a fairly good day.

[filopastry]

Three out of the five candidates on Labour’s final shortlist in Manchester Gorton have attended Khomeinist rallies backing the Iranian regime, Guido can reveal. Afzal Khan and Yasmine Dar spoke last month at a rally held to celebrate the “38th anniversary of the Islamic revolution in Iran“. The event took place in the Manchester Islamic Centre in a room adorned with giant Iranian flags and a banner emblazoned with the face of Ayatollah Khomeini…

Gorton candidate Afzal Khan said at the rally:

    “It’s a pleasure to be here, I was a young man when the revolution actually happened, one of those who was excited… almost everything has been thrown towards Iran, even the kitchen sink, but what we’ve seen is that despite this long period, despite all these different challenges, that Iran has systematically been moving forward, getting stronger… may Allah bless Iran…”

Fellow candidate Yasmine Dar said in her speech:

    “It’s an absolute honour… honourable guests here today thank you so much for this opportunity… we’re here for a celebration, a happy time, 38 years of the Iranian Islamic revolution so I’m absolutely happy, it’s the third year that I’ve been coming… I keep it in my diary and make sure that I’m here… I feel I am absolutely proud when I hear the stories about Iran was based on diplomacy…”

https://order-order.com/2017/03/21/three-labour-gorton-candidates-attended-khomeinist-rallies/

Extraordinary.

Afzal Khan will be Labour's candidate, he narrowly beat out Yasmine Dar who was the Momentum backed candidate.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/23/labour-chooses-life-long-socialist-mep-to-fight-gorton-seat

[classycarra]

Afzal Khan will be Labour's candidate, he narrowly beat out Yasmine Dar who was the Momentum backed candidate.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/23/labour-chooses-life-long-socialist-mep-to-fight-gorton-seat

Given Corbyn's propensity to failure, I'm sure he will be able to cope with his favoured Momentum candidate failing to get in. On the bright side for Corbyn, this guy has already had his issues with anti-semitism, and not while on Corbyn's books.

[Libertine]

Afzal Khan will be Labour's candidate, he narrowly beat out Yasmine Dar who was the Momentum backed candidate.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/23/labour-chooses-life-long-socialist-mep-to-fight-gorton-seat

So their candidate is someone who praised the Iranian revolution and its theocratic regime and compared Israel to the Nazis.

A "lifelong socialist". Nice.

[TepidT2O]

So their candidate is someone who praised the Iranian revolution and its theocratic regime and compared Israel to the Nazis.

A "lifelong socialist". Nice.

George Galloway is also standing.  They can be bezzies

[whiteboots]

So their candidate is someone who praised the Iranian revolution and its theocratic regime and compared Israel to the Nazis.

A "lifelong socialist". Nice.

I am no Corbynista but I think that some of the criticism of Khan is a little hysterical.

He said in 2014, that the Israeli's had acted "like Nazis" in Gaza. Emotive yes, but with factual substance. Modern Iran is a massive success story, with a well educated, predominantly young, population in a modern, functioning society.

Iran is not perfect. Its theocracy does not sit with Western preferences. But it is a society that works, and when you look at the mayhem in Libya, Iraq and Syria, together with the fragility of Egypt, it is something to build upon, not knock.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Iran is not perfect. Its theocracy does not sit with Western preferences. But it is a society that works, and when you look at the mayhem in Libya, Iraq and Syria, together with the fragility of Egypt, it is something to build upon, not knock.

Fucking hell. 

If you're going to write parody, please put a smiley up so we know you're not serious.

[TepidT2O]

I am no Corbynista but I think that some of the criticism of Khan is a little hysterical.

He said in 2014, that the Israeli's had acted "like Nazis" in Gaza. Emotive yes, but with factual substance. Modern Iran is a massive success story, with a well educated, predominantly young, population in a modern, functioning society.

Iran is not perfect. Its theocracy does not sit with Western preferences. But it is a society that works, and when you look at the mayhem in Libya, Iraq and Syria, together with the fragility of Egypt, it is something to build upon, not knock.

Sweet Jesus...

[classycarra]

I am no Corbynista but I think that some of the criticism of Khan is a little hysterical.

He said in 2014, that the Israeli's had acted "like Nazis" in Gaza. Emotive yes, but with factual substance. Modern Iran is a massive success story, with a well educated, predominantly young, population in a modern, functioning society.

Iran is not perfect. Its theocracy does not sit with Western preferences. But it is a society that works, and when you look at the mayhem in Libya, Iraq and Syria, together with the fragility of Egypt, it is something to build upon, not knock.

Where does it sit with your preferences?

Sidenote, why is having a predominantly young population considered part of its success?

[classycarra]

Yet more people with first hand experience working with Corbyn and Milne are abandoning him. Bear in mind these are people who wanted to work for him:

Fresh blow for Jeremy Corbyn as three more aides join exodus from his office
Written by: Kevin Schofield   Posted On: 23rd March 2017

Jeremy Corbyn has been hit by a fresh blow after it emerged three of his top aides are joining the exodus from his office.
   
Jeremy Corbyn Jeremy Corbyn has more staff working for him than Ed Miliband had.Credit: PA Images
They include "head of stakeholder engagement" Jayne Fisher, who only joined the Labour leader's team in January after a decade in charge of Sinn Fein's London office.

Media spokesman Matt Zarb-Cousin is standing down less than a year after joining Mr Corbyn's team to return to his former job with the Campaign For Fairer Gambling.

Sources said Ms Fisher and Mr Zarb-Cousin are leaving because of "health reasons".

They join a long list of senior staff members who have left the Labour leader's operation in recent months.

Highly-respected Director of Campaigns and Planning, Simon Fletcher, resigned last month, as did his deputy, Jack Smith.

Economic policy chief Mike Hatchett left earlier this month after just a year in the job to return to the civil service.

Head of policy Neale Coleman and deputy chief of staff Anneliese Midgley both resigned last year.

A Labour source said: "I don't think it's much fun up there. People come in thinking they're going to get a seat at the top table, but quickly realise they're never really trusted.

"The junior staff are treated quite badly and live in a state of fear. It's a horrible mix. The churn of people is extraordinary. All the good people end up leaving in the end."

PoliticsHome has also learned that David Prescott - son of former Deputy Prime Minister John - has been removed as Mr Corbyn's speechwriter barely three months after taking up the role.

Sources close to Mr Corbyn said he "failed to find Jeremy's voice".

Mr Prescott will continue working for Mr Corbyn as part of his media team, with specific responsibility for taking charge of Shadow Cabinet messaging.

PoliticsHome has been told he was asked if he wanted to stay on as speech-writer, or role or help support the media team and the Shadow Cabinet, and chose to take on the new post.

His speech-writing duties will be carried out by Seumas Milne, Mr Corbyn's head of communications and strategy, and his policy adviser Andrew Fisher, while Labour search for a full-time replacement.

In an email to Shadow Cabinet members last night,seen by PoliticsHome, Mr Milne said: "David's main role is to liaise between the leader's office media team, you and your staff ... and to ensure media and communications are integrated across the different parts of the operation."

Meanwhile, a meeting of Labour's ruling NEC earlier this week heard that there are 28 members of staff in Mr Corbyn's office, plus four vacancies.

His predecessor, Ed Miliband, had 25 on his staff, although that increased to 28 at the time of the last general election.

A spokesman for Mr Corbyn said: "We do not comment on staffing matters."

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/84505/fresh-blow-jeremy-corbyn-three-more

[whiteboots]

The West's post imperial interventions in the Middle East have been consistently poorly executed.

I am astonished that anyone cannot recognise the  successes of Iran which is slowly recovering from American and British manipulation as recently as the 1970's.
 
It is politically stable, administratively functioning and a technologically developing society. It has 4.5m undergraduates, more than half are women. Classycara, the significance of a predominantly young population is that Iran has succeeded in educating its young people, including women in a way that will guarantee a bright future for he country.

Yes, theocracy predominates. Equally, education and modernisation advances. Iran is changing. No Iran does not fit into a neat Western democratic box. the Middle east doesn't. But the Iranian parliament boasts 20% women MP's, the House of Commons, 22%.

There is a lazy, stereotype driven view of Iran which simply does not equate with what is happening in 2017. Yes, there are challenges. but there are everywhere. Iran will increasingly become a dominant force in the ME, understanding why is vital. Khan, and others, are ahead of the curve in this. At a time when the hapless Corbyn continues to wallow out of his depth, it makes a welcome change for the Labour Party.

[SP]

The West's post imperial interventions in the Middle East have been consistently poorly executed.

I am astonished that anyone cannot recognise the  successes of Iran which is slowly recovering from American and British manipulation as recently as the 1970's.
 
It is politically stable, administratively functioning and a technologically developing society. It has 4.5m undergraduates, more than half are women. Classycara, the significance of a predominantly young population is that Iran has succeeded in educating its young people, including women in a way that will guarantee a bright future for he country.

Yes, theocracy predominates. Equally, education and modernisation advances. Iran is changing. No Iran does not fit into a neat Western democratic box. the Middle east doesn't. But the Iranian parliament boasts 20% women MP's, the House of Commons, 22%.

There is a lazy, stereotype driven view of Iran which simply does not equate with what is happening in 2017. Yes, there are challenges. but there are everywhere. Iran will increasingly become a dominant force in the ME, understanding why is vital. Khan, and others, are ahead of the curve in this. At a time when the hapless Corbyn continues to wallow out of his depth, it makes a welcome change for the Labour Party.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/iran/report-iran/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Iran

[classycarra]

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/iran/report-iran/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Iran

Worth noting too that Iran's interventions in the Middle East have been consistently very poorly executed for decades. Though obviously their most recent high profile interventions, allied with Russia, have succeeded in destabilising and destroying Syria, and they are able to divide (and forcefully relocate) towns by religious demographic, in line with their sectarian goals. So success, for them, in their execution (which seems an apt word to use).

[whiteboots]

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/iran/report-iran/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Iran

That is a given, SP.

The questions are, "has Iran made progress, is that progress likely to continue, and are the Labour Party wise to support those advances?" I think the answer is "yes".

I genuinely believed that to be pretty non-contentious stuff and did not expect a "Trump like" response. Sanctions and bombing have been abject failures for the West in the ME. Nowhere have we been prepared to help for the long haul (Libya being the worst example), this is an example of where Labour can get ahead of the curve and start to set the agenda, rather than accept tired stereotypes and failed policies.

[classycarra]

That is a given, SP.

The questions are, "has Iran made progress, is that progress likely to continue, and are the Labour Party wise to support those advances?" I think the answer is "yes".

I genuinely believed that to be pretty non-contentious stuff and did not expect a "Trump like" response. Sanctions and bombing have been abject failures for the West in the ME. Nowhere have we been prepared to help for the long haul (Libya being the worst example), this is an example of where Labour can get ahead of the curve and start to set the agenda, rather than accept tired stereotypes and failed policies.

Oh dear. A few of us taking issue with an unequivocal statement of Khan's individual support of the revolution are 'trump like' - don't you think it's a bit premature for you to lash out like that?

I don't think it's controversial to state that you are somewhat overating Khan if you think his point at the anniversary was analytical and nuanced, ahead of a curve, or trying to set an agenda for future Labour Party policy

[whiteboots]

Oh dear. A few of us taking issue with an unequivocal statement of Khan's individual support of the revolution are 'trump like' - don't you think it's a bit premature for you to lash out like that?

I don't think it's controversial to state that you are somewhat overating Khan if you think his point at the anniversary was analytical and nuanced, ahead of a curve, or trying to set an agenda for future Labour Party policy

I would hardly describe my response as "lashing out". It responded to those ready to trot ( no pun intended) out what I think is a fairly stale position on Iran.

I did not claim that he was seeking to be a standard bearer for rapprochement with Iran. I do think that there are substantial grounds to do so, and the Labour Party would do well to lead ( for a change) in this policy area.

[Alan_X]

Sidenote, why is having a predominantly young population considered part of its success?

Quite - it suggests a short life expectancy or a large population explosion. A low median age usually correlates with poverty:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2177.html

[TepidT2O]

Is Iran the biggest sponsor of anti western terrorism?

Probably.

Swerve Iran if you want to get elected.  Pretty simple.

[whiteboots]

Quite - it suggests a short life expectancy or a large population explosion. A low median age usually correlates with poverty:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2177.html

In Iran it equates to a large population explosion.

The enormous efforts made in education reflect a wise policy to ensure a future well educated work force, not one mired in poverty.

[whiteboots]

Is Iran the biggest sponsor of anti western terrorism?Probably. Swerve Iran if you want to get elected.  Pretty simple.

What Iranian anti western terrorism were you thinking? Surely Saudi  would rate higher?

In one regard I agree with you. Few in the West are interested in the ME, any successes are off the radar of most of the electorate.

On the other, good government, and statesmanship is about doing the right thing. Avoiding difficult things because they are difficult, or lack self interest sadly usually prevails.

And then we wonder about all these refugees....

[cloggypop]

Is Iran the biggest sponsor of anti western terrorism?

Probably.

Swerve Iran if you want to get elected.  Pretty simple.

No. That would be Saudi Arabia but we sell them loads of weapons.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/05/mps-to-urge-ban-on-uk-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia

[classycarra]

No. That would be Saudi Arabia but we sell them loads of weapons.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/05/mps-to-urge-ban-on-uk-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia

Yep - note to Khan, don't praise Saudi Arabia either

[classycarra]

In Iran it equates to a large population explosion.

The enormous efforts made in education reflect a wise policy to ensure a future well educated work force, not one mired in poverty.

And a reflection of the huge losses among a generation of men, sent to die fighting Iraq.

And yes, emphasis on education is great. Still, almost half of the population (30mil) live in relative poverty. Other means will be required alongside education to tackle that

[TepidT2O]

No. That would be Saudi Arabia but we sell them loads of weapons.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/05/mps-to-urge-ban-on-uk-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia

Probably is Iran...

But if you have to quibble over it, it's probably worth thoroughly abound both..

[Xabi Gerrard]

Probably is Iran...

Can you give us some examples of this anti-Western terrorism sponsored by Iran? There were some incidents in the 80s of course (e.g. the Barracks bombings) and non-Western terrorism (Hezbollah) but struggling to think of anything anti-Western that even comes close to Saudi sponsored anti-Western terrorism.

Or are you just making stuff up?

[SP]

Can you give us some examples of this anti-Western terrorism sponsored by Iran? There were some incidents in the 80s of course (e.g. the Barracks bombings) and non-Western terrorism (Hezbollah) but struggling to think of anything anti-Western that even comes close to Saudi sponsored anti-Western terrorism.

Or are you just making stuff up?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Iran_assassination_plot

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-withholding-43-billion-in-restitution-to-u-s-terror-victims/

[Xabi Gerrard]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism

Cheers. Interesting list. Most of it not anti-Western and much of it concluding that Iran wasn't involved, e.g under the entry of 9/11; "After the commission called for "further investigation" into a possible Iranian role in the attacks, President George W. Bush demanded that Iran sever its ties with al-Qaeda, while saying that in his view, "There was no direct connection between Iran and the attacks of September 11."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Iran_assassination_plot

This one seems a bit tenuous, it even states;

The extent of the Iranian government's involvement has been questioned by a variety of commentators

and

U.S. officials said that it was "more than likely" that Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and the head of the Quds Force, Major General Qassem Suleimani, knew of the plot, but acknowledged this was based on analysis rather than hard evidence.

I think to suggest that this compares to the amount of anti-Western terror that's arisen from Saudi sponsored madrassas is crazy.

[TepidT2O]

Can you give us some examples of this anti-Western terrorism sponsored by Iran? There were some incidents in the 80s of course (e.g. the Barracks bombings) and non-Western terrorism (Hezbollah) but struggling to think of anything anti-Western that even comes close to Saudi sponsored anti-Western terrorism.

Or are you just making stuff up?

Funnily enough, I'm not going to respond to crap like this.

Added to ignore list because you're just fucking rude.

[Xabi Gerrard]

Funnily enough, I'm not going to respond to crap like this.

Added to ignore list because you're just fucking rude.

If you're going to post contentious and controversial statements like you did, don't be surprised when you're called out on it. Posting misinformation/disinformation isn't cool.

Ignore list? Grow up FFS.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/24/keir-starmer-labour-brexit-interview

Interesting interview with Starmer in the Guardian. Some good stuff in there. Still not completely convinced by him on Brexit - what he is saying makes sense but it really needs to be backed up by action.

Seems to have pretty much been as negative as he could have been about Corbyn/McDonnell without losing his job.

[oldfordie]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/24/keir-starmer-labour-brexit-interview

Interesting interview with Starmer in the Guardian. Some good stuff in there. Still not completely convinced by him on Brexit - what he is saying makes sense but it really needs to be backed up by action.

Seems to have pretty much been as negative as he could have been about Corbyn/McDonnell without losing his job.

Starmer says.
“Everyone says: ‘What about the 48%?’ Well, I’m one of the 48%, and my family is part of the 48%, and many of my friends and colleagues are part of the 48%. But we had a referendum, and we had a result. You can’t logically then say, ‘I accept the result, but I won’t let the prime minister start the process.

We had a referendum vote last June. the Country went from discussing a soft Brexit in June to everybody knows we voted to leave the single market in March, Corbyns Labour should have fought this lie, they weren't just fighting for the 48%, that's rubbish. the majority of people did not vote for a hard Brexit. they needed to respect the wishes of  60-70% of voters who didn't vote to leave the single market.
Labour had every right to refuse to vote to trigger art 50 until the Torys proved the majority of voters voted to leave the single market. the Torys abused the result of the referendum to impose a a Tory hard Brexit on the country.

[Trada]

Labour has won an unprecedented five seats in the City of London’s local elections which take place every four years and usually return only independent candidates.

Some 7,400 residents as well as 400,000 people who work in the Square Mile were given a vote in the common council elections, which closed at 8pm last night.

Peter Kenyon, chair of Labour’s City of London branch, told City A.M. the group has no specific policy objectives with regards to financial services. Instead, it wants to focus on “changing corporation policy with regards to affordable housing, the living wage and tackling rough sleeping.”

Its other manifesto commitments are to promote the London living wage of £9.75 per hour for all workers in the City and to create more dedicated cycling lanes.

He also said that the victory, outside of Labour’s traditional areas of support, feels “very sweet”.

http://www.cityam.com/261639/labour-party-has-won-unprecedented-five-seats-city-london

[Redman0151]

Starmer says.
“Everyone says: ‘What about the 48%?’ Well, I’m one of the 48%, and my family is part of the 48%, and many of my friends and colleagues are part of the 48%. But we had a referendum, and we had a result. You can’t logically then say, ‘I accept the result, but I won’t let the prime minister start the process.

We had a referendum vote last June. the Country went from discussing a soft Brexit in June to everybody knows we voted to leave the single market in March, Corbyns Labour should have fought this lie, they weren't just fighting for the 48%, that's rubbish. the majority of people did not vote for a hard Brexit. they needed to respect the wishes of  60-70% of voters who didn't vote to leave the single market.
Labour had every right to refuse to vote to trigger art 50 until the Torys proved the majority of voters voted to leave the single market. the Torys abused the result of the referendum to impose a a Tory hard Brexit on the country.

Even after the realisation that we will leave the single market, the polls have showed the public is still backing Brexit and just want to get on with it. Not only that but Labour needs to win in many areas that voted for Brexit if it ever wants to get into government again, i'm sorry but the Brexit mess was decided long ago. The polls also show the public values stronger control over our borders than being in the single market http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/752210/Immigration-border-control-single-market-free-trade-Brexit-EU-Theresa-May-Britain-poll

[SP]

Labour has won an unprecedented five seats in the City of London’s local elections which take place every four years and usually return only independent candidates.

Some 7,400 residents as well as 400,000 people who work in the Square Mile were given a vote in the common council elections, which closed at 8pm last night.

Peter Kenyon, chair of Labour’s City of London branch, told City A.M. the group has no specific policy objectives with regards to financial services. Instead, it wants to focus on “changing corporation policy with regards to affordable housing, the living wage and tackling rough sleeping.”

Its other manifesto commitments are to promote the London living wage of £9.75 per hour for all workers in the City and to create more dedicated cycling lanes.

He also said that the victory, outside of Labour’s traditional areas of support, feels “very sweet”.

http://www.cityam.com/261639/labour-party-has-won-unprecedented-five-seats-city-london

No other parties put candidates up. Traditionally the vote is non party political. At least one of the Labour candidates was unopposed.

[zero zero]

The polls also show the public values stronger control over our borders than being in the single market

Do the polls show that people fully understand what the consequences are of leaving the single market?

Stronger controls over our borders OR Something a bit vague... and sounds like you're trying to scare me... and I've already lost interest

[armchair-fan]

...Peter Kenyon, chair of Labour’s City of London branch...

Didn't know that's what he was up to these days.

[SP]

From Reddit:

This "historic win" involved them standing for eight seats out of a hundred, one of which was unopposed. Of the remaining seven seats, they got four councilmen elected on a total of 1250 votes. The remaining three candidates got 50, 22 and 6 votes each.

The wards they won in are three of the four large residential wards - they really stand no chance elsewhere, where all the electors are employees of local businesses.

[TepidT2O]

1250 votes...

The tide has been turned..